I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Designstudent on October 09, 2006, 06:10:59 PM
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:banghead;
We are two senior product design students from Western Michigan University doing research on dialysis environments for our thesis project and need your feedback/input. We have also posted other question throughout the forum, feel free to respond to those also.
Are you capable of exercising or any type of movements while dialysizing (sp?) More specifically could anyone elaborate on the range of motion you would have while dialysizing? Such as: can you get out of your seat, walk around, run in place, go to the bathroom, etc?
Thank you for your time!!!!!!
Tony & Alan :2thumbsup;
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While on the chair and hooked up, movement is very hard, especially the arm you are dialyzing with. The other is free to go about it's business ::) I heard some people say that some clinics offer some pedals, not too sure what they are called, but that way they can exercise their legs. Oh and can you please go to the Introduce Yourself section and post more about yourselves and what this is for, i am sure you will get better replies once we know who you are and what you need it for. :) thank you
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Tony and Alan. How much do you know about dialysis? Have you ever been in a clinic? There are more than one type of dialysis, so please be more specific. AND yes, go to Introduce Yourself and tell us a little more about yourselves. Plus your interest in dialysis and how you came to this thesis project.
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wow! Run around? Go to the bathroom? lol
To get a better idea here is a pic. When you are hooked up to Hemodialysis you can't just run around because you have a sharp 15 gauge needle in your arm (some have blunts but I don't want to get complicated so I am just talking basics) and your blood is filtered and excess fluid is removed as most people on dialysis no longer have any kidney function which means they no longer pee out fluid that they drink. If dialysis didn't remove it they would have excess fluid around the heart and in the lungs as well as in all body tissue.
I try to keep the one arm very still and on the other arm is the blood pressure cuff. When it pumps I can't move that arm neither :P
I use an exercycle to move my legs to help the machine remove 20% more toxins as I had read in research.
Others can go into more detail but I wanted to keep it simple.
There is also Peritoneal Dialysis but still you are hooked up to the dialysis so movement is limited depending.
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A lot of your questions could be answered if you read through the forums posts. :)
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During treatment I recline about half the time and sit up about half the time. While reclining, I occasionally bend my knees. My left arm has the needles, and I try to keep that still. I may shift it's position slightly, but slowly and carefully. You can really mess up dialysis if you move your access around too much. I have the use of my right arm, except for the time every half hour when my blood pressure is taken. I'm one of those people who uses pedals to fend off restlessness. Obviously, I'm sitting up then. On rare occasions when I need to urinate during treatment, they bring me a urinal and close a curtain, and I stand to "do my business". I've never actually told the staff I do that and I'm not sure they'd approve, but I've never had a problem with it. I still take great care to minimize movement with my left arm. I occasionally get disconnected long enough for a bowel movement. In that case, my needles are still in place and I am very careful about them. Otherwise I can walk and do everything else related on my own. That too is rare. It's a lot of hassle for staff and for me, so I don't ask to go unless the need is pretty strong. But 99.9% of the time my butt is in the chair in one position or another. I believe I could tolerate walking around, and I would love it, but it would be like being a dog on a short leash. I don't attempt it.
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Tony and Alan. How much do you know about dialysis? Have you ever been in a clinic? There are more than one type of dialysis, so please be more specific. AND yes, go to Introduce Yourself and tell us a little more about yourselves. Plus your interest in dialysis and how you came to this thesis project.
we have just posted in the intoduce yourself section, thanks for the pointer :thx; the project was given to us by stryker medical, they are our sponsor, all groups in our class are doing medical based projects although ours in the only one having to do with dialysis.
wow! Run around? Go to the bathroom? lol
To get a better idea here is a pic. When you are hooked up to Hemodialysis you can't just run around because you have a sharp 15 gauge needle in your arm (some have blunts but I don't want to get complicated so I am just talking basics) and your blood is filtered and excess fluid is removed as most people on dialysis no longer have any kidney function which means they no longer pee out fluid that they drink. If dialysis didn't remove it they would have excess fluid around the heart and in the lungs as well as in all body tissue.
I try to keep the one arm very still and on the other arm is the blood pressure cuff. When it pumps I can't move that arm neither :P
I use an exercycle to move my legs to help the machine remove 20% more toxins as I had read in research.
Others can go into more detail but I wanted to keep it simple.
There is also Peritoneal Dialysis but still you are hooked up to the dialysis so movement is limited depending.
we didnt necessarily mean "run around" :P sorry if thats how it sounded, more like, are you able to get out of the chair/bed? what is your range, can you walk 5 feet away from the machine? 10? these are things we expected to find in our field visit, but as posted in our introduction post, we found this near imposible due to privacy laws and fees that were outside of our range being that we are on a student income.
A lot of your questions could be answered if you read through the forums posts. :)
we tried to troll through most of the forums and topics that we thought sounded like what we were looking for, and although we did find alot of useful information, many posts raised further questions to us, we were interested in further detail. We also wanted to form some sort of interaction/relationship with some of you all, do our research on a more personal level (our introduction post should help more with that), that makes it much more enjoyable for us, and hopefully you as well.
thanks everyone for the replies so far, we appreciate it and hope to get more!
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You are pretty much stuck in the chair all the time you are on the machine!
Acticities and things have to be brought to the patients. Besides there has to be room for things.
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You are pretty much stuck in the chair all the time you are on the machine!
Acticities and things have to be brought to the patients. Besides there has to be room for things.
Exactly!!
If I want a drink I have to flag down a nurse and SOME units do NOT let you eat or drink except for crushed ice. I love the crushed ice but I always want water in it as well :P
We usually just have our butts planted safely in the seat at all times as moving around with 15 gauge sharps in your arm would be bad to be dancing :P
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If you want to know what it's like, find a semi-comfy chair in a really cold room. with a TV. Get a blanket and a pillow. Then have a friend tie one arm to the chair above your elbow (like a BP cuff) and then tether your other hand to the chair with a rope about 12 inches long. That way you can move it some, but not too much. Then ... sit there for 4 hours. Not one minute less. Oh and make sure your friend turns down the air at least once while you are sitting there. It doesn't sound like it would be that hard, but it's definitely frustrating. Hope that doesn't sound too bitter, but I just thought I had a grasp on it before I started. But trust me, sitting in one spot for 4 hours sucks! At least for me :-)
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If you want to know what it's like, find a semi-comfy chair in a really cold room. with a TV. Get a blanket and a pillow. Then have a friend tie one arm to the chair above your elbow (like a BP cuff) and then tether your other hand to the chair with a rope about 12 inches long. That way you can move it some, but not too much. Then ... sit there for 4 hours. Not one minute less. Oh and make sure your friend turns down the air at least once while you are sitting there. It doesn't sound like it would be that hard, but it's definitely frustrating. Hope that doesn't sound too bitter, but I just thought I had a grasp on it before I started. But trust me, sitting in one spot for 4 hours sucks! At least for me :-)
Ya but even that isn't as bad as we have it. Imagine that one arm that is tethered to the 12 inches long rope is connected to you by 2 large 15 gauge needles and if you move that arm they may go right through and that is bad. Also imagine that the last hour your blood pressure drops, you get dizzy and have the worse cramps you have ever had in places you didn't know you could even GET cramps!! ;)
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If you want to know what it's like, find a semi-comfy chair in a really cold room. with a TV. Get a blanket and a pillow. Then have a friend tie one arm to the chair above your elbow (like a BP cuff) and then tether your other hand to the chair with a rope about 12 inches long. That way you can move it some, but not too much. Then ... sit there for 4 hours. Not one minute less. Oh and make sure your friend turns down the air at least once while you are sitting there. It doesn't sound like it would be that hard, but it's definitely frustrating. Hope that doesn't sound too bitter, but I just thought I had a grasp on it before I started. But trust me, sitting in one spot for 4 hours sucks! At least for me :-)
Ya but even that isn't as bad as we have it. Imagine that one arm that is tethered to the 12 inches long rope is connected to you by 2 large 15 gauge needles and if you move that arm they may go right through and that is bad. Also imagine that the last hour your blood pressure drops, you get dizzy and have the worse cramps you have ever had in places you didn't know you could even GET cramps!! ;)
Hey, you two just stole my thunder. That is the clearest picture of what my 4 hour experience is like. EXERCISE!!!
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If you want to know what it's like, find a semi-comfy chair in a really cold room. with a TV. Get a blanket and a pillow. Then have a friend tie one arm to the chair above your elbow (like a BP cuff) and then tether your other hand to the chair with a rope about 12 inches long. That way you can move it some, but not too much. Then ... sit there for 4 hours. Not one minute less. Oh and make sure your friend turns down the air at least once while you are sitting there. It doesn't sound like it would be that hard, but it's definitely frustrating. Hope that doesn't sound too bitter, but I just thought I had a grasp on it before I started. But trust me, sitting in one spot for 4 hours sucks! At least for me :-)
Ya but even that isn't as bad as we have it. Imagine that one arm that is tethered to the 12 inches long rope is connected to you by 2 large 15 gauge needles and if you move that arm they may go right through and that is bad. Also imagine that the last hour your blood pressure drops, you get dizzy and have the worse cramps you have ever had in places you didn't know you could even GET cramps!! ;)
Hey, you two just stole my thunder. That is the clearest picture of what my 4 hour experience is like. EXERCISE!!!
Awww sorry Baj! :cuddle;
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I think simulating dialysis is the answer too.
I do dialysis at home, so I sit in a recliner and surf the net for 3 hours. But its not as easy as it sounds. I take my blood preasure every thirty minutes and half the time my arm goes numb because of that. And I half to monitor my machine too. As for range of motion, I can't do much more than move the mouse or mash some buttons on the keyboard. I suppose it I had too, I could stand up and walk back in forth 1 foot at a time. Your range of motion depends on the length of tubing connected to you and the machine. I have less tubing because I tape it up and down my arm to prevent it from snagging on anything.
Dialysis is ALOT easier and more comfterable at home than in a clinic though. I always ended up getting cold sweats in the clinic because it was so cold!
Oh. and if you have to use the bathroom while your on the machine.. tuff titty! Either you pee in a cup, or hold it. I suggest using it before going. If you REALLY have to go, you have to either turn off your machine early, or put your machine on recirculation for a few miuntes while you go. I learned how to make my machine reserculate once, but I've never actually done it. And once you do it, your not supposed to let it reserculate more than 10-15 minutes max.
-Jaybird
Hope that helps. I am on home hemo dialysis with a NXstage machine. Every machine is different as well as every patients capabilities.
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I always ended up getting cold sweats in the clinic because it was so cold!
Ya I have noticed the units are always so cold because the staff is busy but we are usually anemic and sitting of course in one spot all that time. I have gotten bone chilling cold a few times and the nurse says, "Are you kidding me? I am boiling!"
Also the nurses never want you to stand up incase you get dizzy and fall over .. which is bad with needles in your arm.
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thanks everyone for your input :2thumbsup; although we have been rather quiet during your discussions dont take it as if we are not listening, we have been checking the posts constantly and are getting VERY useful feedback from you all. :clap; currently we have moved into our ideation phase, which basically means that we start sketching out ways that these problems can be possibly solved and eventually narrow them down to what we believe to be the best solution (which dosent happen overnight! more like a few weeks). once we get some sort of direction, or something that we feel is a little concrete we will somehow make it available for you all to critique (whether through emails or posting images online), and then go back and make revisions.
so please, continue with all the feedback and comments and we will be chiming in periodically! :)
thanks,
alan and tony
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If I may ask, what are you trying to design? How about an economical, comfortable dialysis chair with individual HDTV monitor (connected to cable or satellite) which also works with a built in computer, automated itch scratcher (because not all itches are in the back) to compensate for limited movement, specialized book/magazine stand for making reading with our one available hand more convenient, light switch, thermostat, call button, and telephone? Is that too much to ask? ;-)
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If I may ask, what are you trying to design? How about an economical, comfortable dialysis chair with individual HDTV monitor (connected to cable or satellite) which also works with a built in computer, automated itch scratcher (because not all itches are in the back) to compensate for limited movement, specialized book/magazine stand for making reading with our one available hand more convenient, light switch, thermostat, call button, and telephone? Is that too much to ask? ;-)
Darn it! Left out the cupholder. Considered GPS, but then, we're not going anywhere.
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How about a dialysis pod where you enter with all of your things, get hooked up and then are in contact with email, computer, TV, and games. Like the Japanese have with their little hotel rooms. However with a window view too. LOL
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If I may ask, what are you trying to design? How about an economical, comfortable dialysis chair with individual HDTV monitor (connected to cable or satellite) which also works with a built in computer, automated itch scratcher (because not all itches are in the back) to compensate for limited movement, specialized book/magazine stand for making reading with our one available hand more convenient, light switch, thermostat, call button, and telephone? Is that too much to ask? ;-)
Darn it! Left out the cupholder. Considered GPS, but then, we're not going anywhere.
Well, in that case, why not a motorized power chair with a nxstage machine built in? Then you may have use for the GPS after all. ;)
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How about floating independent capsules for dialysis that we could take anywhere with us!
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If I may ask, what are you trying to design? How about an economical, comfortable dialysis chair with individual HDTV monitor (connected to cable or satellite) which also works with a built in computer, automated itch scratcher (because not all itches are in the back) to compensate for limited movement, specialized book/magazine stand for making reading with our one available hand more convenient, light switch, thermostat, call button, and telephone? Is that too much to ask? ;-)
actually viking that isnt too much to ask, we are considering many of the things you mentioned and more ;D we are basically designing a whole new dialysis enviroment/treatment center, but our main focus is on the individual 'treatment stations', with our own ideas AND all the great ones you all have given us the challenge no longer seems to be "what can we do", rather, how will we do it ;D. thats what we are working on now, most likely next week we may have some sketches that have some level of detail to be able to show you.
alan and tony
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If I may ask, what are you trying to design? How about an economical, comfortable dialysis chair with individual HDTV monitor (connected to cable or satellite) which also works with a built in computer, automated itch scratcher (because not all itches are in the back) to compensate for limited movement, specialized book/magazine stand for making reading with our one available hand more convenient, light switch, thermostat, call button, and telephone? Is that too much to ask? ;-)
Oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man!!! THAT is what I want for Christmas!!!!!! :2thumbsup;
I am sooooo sick and tired of not being able to get ahold of a nurse when I need as they are always out of ear shot and I am tired of never being able to reach my back to scratch it as if I move to much the needle in my arm might move and the arterial alarm goes off but siting that long against a plastic chair makes my back itchy!!
I also hate how in my unit we don't even have cable. Just the normal basic channels with bad reception on half and even worse when it rains!
I also hate how my dialysis machine screen is usually too far to push all the buttons when it alarms. I can only reach about half the screen.
ALso may I add PLEASE BETTER BP CUFFS!!!!! The ones that have a bar like the ones you buy from the drug store which makes it easy to put it on yourself with one arm! Instead of having to wait for a nurse to put the cuff on it would be nice to do it myself! On Monday the nurse put it on too lose and then my BP was reading high and I said, "That is not right" to which she said, "your BP is fine". She didn't readjust my cuff but instead ignored me! When I moved my arm a few min later the cuff actually SLID DOWN MY ARM!
Thx ;) Hope my input is helpful!
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To acheive a realistic case study of what it truly means to be a Dialysis Patient, here's what I suggest you do:
1. Get yourself an easy chair that doesn't quite recline the way you like and pokes you in the back continuously.
2. Sit in said chair with one of your arms tied down with two painful needles inserted.
3. Stay put for three to four hours, depending on what treatment you're trying to replicate.
4. Four feet away place an elderly gentleman with terrible gas and a bad attitude who likes to shout phrases like, "p*ck your cabbage," or "Douche bags are tasty," continuously through the treatment.
5. Give elderly man a 13" diagonal TV and turn it up to full volume while tuned to some tacky novella.
6. Have someone playing a doctor come by, ask you how you're doing and then ignore everything you say.
7. Make sure at the 2 hour mark to have someone take a vice clamp, apply it to your right calf and tighten it as far as possible for as long as possible.
8. Repeat three times a week until a new kidney becomes available or you pass on.
The preceding may seem faceitous, but there's nuggets of truth scattered throughout.
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And have the A/C blowing on your head in the freezing room and your blanket be out of reach and no one within earshot who could help when you need. ;)
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Great ideas! ;D
I like the idea of a kick ass dialysis chair. If you could build the machine into the chair that would rock. Have the buttons for monitoring built into the hand rests. (both of them because you dont know which arm will be incumbered). Also have the blood pressure machine hooked up to the chair and the controls put with the machines controls. While your at making a nice chair, make it a massage chair... My back gets cramps halfway through dialysis sometimes. and It would feel good if someone rubbed it, or the chair.
I like the whole HDTV concept.. While your at it, have the machine run through the tv and have your stats scrolled along the bottom of the screen like they do for the stock market. it wouldnt be too hard.
There are soo many things I would like.. I might loose sleep over this! ;)
-Jaybird
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If I may ask, what are you trying to design? How about an economical, comfortable dialysis chair with individual HDTV monitor (connected to cable or satellite) which also works with a built in computer, automated itch scratcher (because not all itches are in the back) to compensate for limited movement, specialized book/magazine stand for making reading with our one available hand more convenient, light switch, thermostat, call button, and telephone? Is that too much to ask? ;-)
Oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man!!! THAT is what I want for Christmas!!!!!! :2thumbsup;
I am sooooo sick and tired of not being able to get ahold of a nurse when I need as they are always out of ear shot and I am tired of never being able to reach my back to scratch it as if I move to much the needle in my arm might move and the arterial alarm goes off but siting that long against a plastic chair makes my back itchy!!
I also hate how in my unit we don't even have cable. Just the normal basic channels with bad reception on half and even worse when it rains!
I also hate how my dialysis machine screen is usually too far to push all the buttons when it alarms. I can only reach about half the screen.
ALso may I add PLEASE BETTER BP CUFFS!!!!! The ones that have a bar like the ones you buy from the drug store which makes it easy to put it on yourself with one arm! Instead of having to wait for a nurse to put the cuff on it would be nice to do it myself! On Monday the nurse put it on too lose and then my BP was reading high and I said, "That is not right" to which she said, "your BP is fine". She didn't readjust my cuff but instead ignored me! When I moved my arm a few min later the cuff actually SLID DOWN MY ARM!
Thx ;) Hope my input is helpful!
Angie, I have mastered the one handed application of a blood pressure cuff. The trick is to put it on your forearm, stick the velcro, and slide it up your arm. It takes a couple of tries to get it the perfect fit, but you get to practice three times a week for the rest of your life. Keep Smilin Steve
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To acheive a realistic case study of what it truly means to be a Dialysis Patient, here's what I suggest you do:
1. Get yourself an easy chair that doesn't quite recline the way you like and pokes you in the back continuously.
2. Sit in said chair with one of your arms tied down with two painful needles inserted.
3. Stay put for three to four hours, depending on what treatment you're trying to replicate.
4. Four feet away place an elderly gentleman with terrible gas and a bad attitude who likes to shout phrases like, "p*ck your cabbage," or "Douche bags are tasty," continuously through the treatment.
5. Give elderly man a 13" diagonal TV and turn it up to full volume while tuned to some tacky novella.
6. Have someone playing a doctor come by, ask you how you're doing and then ignore everything you say.
7. Make sure at the 2 hour mark to have someone take a vice clamp, apply it to your right calf and tighten it as far as possible for as long as possible.
8. Repeat three times a week until a new kidney becomes available or you pass on.
The preceding may seem faceitous, but there's nuggets of truth scattered throughout.
OH MAN I LOVE THAT! Damn Stacy I wish you would post more ;D ;D ;D I loved them all, but #4 had me LITERALLY LOL.
10 out of 10 for that post. :thumbup;
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AND put a blood pressure cuff around your arm and have someone pump it up until you scream every 30 minutes!
Then try and sleep........
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AND put a blood pressure cuff around your arm and have someone pump it up until you scream every 30 minutes!
Then try and sleep........
Oh ya .. sometimes when the cuff pumps .. does anyone else find it uncomfortable? I mean .. my cuff at home is not like that! I have no problem with it! But the one at dialysis .. damn it is annoyingly itchy and pinches and ... I just don't like it :(
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AND put a blood pressure cuff around your arm and have someone pump it up until you scream every 30 minutes!
Then try and sleep........
Oh ya .. sometimes when the cuff pumps .. does anyone else find it uncomfortable? I mean .. my cuff at home is not like that! I have no problem with it! But the one at dialysis .. damn it is annoyingly itchy and pinches and ... I just don't like it :(
Why not then take the BP cuff you have at home to your center and use that one. That's what I have done before. :thumbup;
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AND put a blood pressure cuff around your arm and have someone pump it up until you scream every 30 minutes!
Then try and sleep........
Oh ya .. sometimes when the cuff pumps .. does anyone else find it uncomfortable? I mean .. my cuff at home is not like that! I have no problem with it! But the one at dialysis .. damn it is annoyingly itchy and pinches and ... I just don't like it :(
Why not then take the BP cuff you have at home to your center and use that one. That's what I have done before. :thumbup;
Well I can't use the cuff from the auto-BP machine I have at home as it is not detachable but I do have another cuff from when I used to do my BP manually before I bought the auto one from the drugstore. .. Nope I just checked it too ... I am looking for a cuff that can screw onto the machine at dialysis. None of mine at home separate from the rest.. :(
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Why not then take the BP cuff you have at home to your center and use that one. That's what I have done before. :thumbup;
Actually, I have a manual wrist one because I hated the automatic one at the clinic. ;)
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Did our researchers get lost in the maze of developing their ideas and project.? How about an update?
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Yeah, I wonder. I'll email them and ask! ;)
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Yeah, I wonder. I'll email them and ask! ;)
I would love to know what they have come up with so far and give them a helping hand to modify things. Muuuhuahahahaha!
Just kidding! :clap;
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hello everyone!
sorry for the long delay in replying. we have been really busy,(on this project amongst other things), but we are at the end of this semester, we presented out final 'concept' to stryker medical and it went pretts well. we still have the first 6 weeks of next semester to nail down all the small details and make a model. what we have so far are basically cubicle systems that can be customized, we also found that 'wiring' every cubicle with a pc and an lcd screen with bluetooth capability will provide alot of the entertainment needs, and are currently working on what would be the best way to navigate a computer interface with mostly one hand. we have also designed a new chair, although that came after the cubcle system so its not as far along, but i feel strongly about it. right now we are preparing 'packets' (or booklets) of what we have done in this first semester, basically explaining the concepts and putting them all together. these are being created on the computer so i will have a jpeg image of each page of my packet (we are doing separate packets for grading purposes), the question is what is the best way to show everyone? if i put them n a slideshow it would easily be over 10mb, so im thinking the bast way would be to upload all the pages in a zipped folder to an online filesharing source, such as rapidshare or tinypic or something. if anyone has a reccomendation or preferred uplaoding site please let me know since i want you all to be able to see it.
ill post this update in all out posts in hopes that everyone gets brought up to speed!
thanks,
alan