I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: plugger on July 22, 2009, 06:13:26 AM

Title: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: plugger on July 22, 2009, 06:13:26 AM
No, doctors aren't sending people to the best clinic! Your doctor is probably sending you to the place where that person is the medical director.

Looks like some doctors here in Colorado would have preferred sending their patients elsewhere and finally had to quit their roles as medical directors to get on with other dialysis companies.

The Stark law ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_Law ) is supposed to prevent doctors from sending people to a facility where the physician has a financial interest, but nephs got an exemption.

Surprise! It is causing problems:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12830453

"The mud began to fly last year when the second-largest group of Denver kidney doctors, called nephrologists, ended their exclusive affiliation with DaVita and partnered with a Massachusetts dialysis company entering the Denver market. Near the same time, the largest nephrology group in Colorado Springs dumped DaVita in favor of Liberty Dialysis, which recently opened two dialysis centers in the city.

DaVita quickly sued doctors in both cities, plus a nurse battling breast cancer who quit her job at a DaVita dialysis center and took one with Liberty."

I just wanted to also mention the old DialysisEthics website ( http://www.dialysisethics.org/ ) is back up and we are working on a new one.  I'm the new front person of the organization and hope you will drop by.  DialysisEthics fought a hard fight, but now we feel we can tone that down.  We want to be part of the solutions we see coming, rather than continue to point out problems.  So come see what we have been up to over the years and I guarantee we have more surprises!
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 22, 2009, 07:27:50 AM
I guess im lucky im in the UK then.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Wallyz on July 22, 2009, 08:08:06 AM
Heh.  Da Vita is actively recruiting from PSKC and NKC around here.  It's time they got a dose of their own medicine.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: kristina on July 22, 2009, 10:58:50 AM
I guess im lucky im in the UK then.
Why are you lucky to be in the UK?
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 22, 2009, 11:49:16 AM
Because our system isnt like that  , we all go to the same hospital in our area.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: kristina on July 22, 2009, 12:03:26 PM
Are you sure and how do you know?
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 22, 2009, 02:09:27 PM
 ???
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Stoday on July 22, 2009, 05:38:47 PM
In the UK we can choose to go to hospital of our choice, but 99.9% go to the nearest one that offers the treatment they need.

I'm amazed at the inefficiency and inequality of what I read of the US health system on this forum. Not least the difficullty Obama is having in introducing changes that bring the system up to the standards met in other countries of the developed world for serving the whole population.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: kristina on July 23, 2009, 03:08:32 AM
It is so unfair that you claim everything in the UK is alright and NHS-healthcare is free for everyone in the UK. You do not mention that so many patients are forced to give their dignity in exchange for their “free” health care. You do not mention the many patients who do not receive any NHS-health care because they refuse to take part in this. You do not mention that one of our Health Ministers is currently investigated by the police for fraud and corruption. Many other Members of Parliament are still being investigated. A former Health Minister published a book about her very intimate exploits in the House of Parliament.

Reading this hurt me very much because I did write to her for help and never received an answer. She obviously had no time and no bother.

You do not mention the female patients in the UK who do not receive any NHS- health care because they do not agree with the exchange they are supposed to give for "free" NHS-health care. You do not mention that these victims have no office to write to with their complaint. There is no Ombudsman to investigate or assist, no Health Commission to investigate or assist, no Member of Parliament, there is no office in place to assist us in our human rights and our right for medical care.

You write how amazed you are about the inefficiency and inequality of what you read of the US health system on this forum. What about the inefficiency and inequality of what you read, experience and hear of the health system in the UK? The NHS health system in the UK has been created by very idealistic, gentle and kind-minded people, but unfortunately there have been other people who have taken advantage of this “idealistic, fragile, vulnerable health system” and they have exploited it for their own purpose and so it has mutated and deteriorated almost beyond comprehension.

The UK has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe.

Many people leave the UK every week to try their luck in another country. One needs to be healthy to be able to take such a big step.

I have not received any NHS- health care for many years and I am forced to pay for everything privately. I do not have the money, but in order to have blood-tests etc I am forced to pay. On 11th April 2005 I received by post a letter from the Medical Chairman of my Health Authority, claiming that for my disease of MCTD/SLE there is no specialist to be found in the UK. I received this letter because I made very clear to my Health Authority that I do not wish to exchange my dignity for a NHS-health service and the letter came as a result for my refusal.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: paul.karen on July 23, 2009, 04:32:32 AM
Stoday,
This isnt a problem about Obama per say.  It is a problem with our congress and the lack of trust we have in our own system.
Most everything the government touches breaks and there is usually more pork (waste) in new bills then there is funds to fix the problems that are set out to be fixed.
Look at our Social security.  All legally working us citizens pay into this system once we start to work.  So we have a little something to fall back on when we retire.  Well this plan will be broke right around the time i retire.  Thus i have paid into this system my whole life and likely wont see a dime of it cause the government has been using these guaranteed funds for pet projects.
Same can be said for Medicare.  This is run by the government.  And on average costs about 3-4 thousand more a month then if you pay for your own insurance.
If we adopt a national healthcare system we will no longer be #1 in our healthcare.  People from around the world come here to be treated due to many factors.  Usually they are the richer people who can afford to pay for top health care.
OK lets say we give an additional 55/70 million people free healthcare.  We dont have enough doctors to cover these extra people.  So bigger wait times less attention from doctors, skipping treatments to cut corners.

Who wants to hear they have a tumor on there brain and you may have less then 10 months to live.  But we wont scan your tumor for 8 months due to the waiting list.
Or we dont think we can start you on dialysis cause well you are over the cutoff age of 65.

Many Americans want to fix the system.  But we know better then to let the government get involved in this system. 
In short it will cost us much more then it does now.

75 to 80% of Americans are happy with the services they get.  Trust me we wont be getting the same kind of coverage as our leaders do.  No gold plans for the working class.
And Obama has passed already Three major bills that NO ONE HAS READ.  The democrats just passed them unread.  You dont start to build a house without first having blueprints made up.  Obama wants to start building and make the blue prints up as he goes.  Which in every case will give you costs overruns along with unseen problems with wiring piping and the foundation itself that should have been laid before the roofers came to finish a job that hasnt even begun yet.
This is only my take.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 23, 2009, 04:52:30 AM
I dont really want to get into this thread because i dont do politics, but i am puzzled at a few things you have said ..Patients forced to give their dignity for free health care ? Female victims who dont receive health care because they dont agree with the exchange they are supposed to give ? No one to complain to ?  :urcrazy; I really havent a clue what you are talking about here. Are you talking about the UK here?
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Zach on July 23, 2009, 04:56:38 AM

Or we dont think we can start you on dialysis cause well you are over the cutoff age of 65.


What country has a cutoff at age 65 for dialysis?

8)
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: paul.karen on July 23, 2009, 05:44:39 AM
That was an example Zach.
But who knows what could happen when politics decide who gets what.
How old is to old to get a hip replacement.??  If it were someone we loved no age is to old.   But if goverment were to put an age on it we would have no choice in the matter or say.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Zach on July 23, 2009, 06:45:34 AM

That was an example Zach.


Yes, it was indeed an example.

8)
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Des on July 23, 2009, 07:00:01 AM
What country has a cutoff at age 65 for dialysis?

South Arica has.... if you are older than 65 or any age for that matter and you do not qualify for a transplant for any reason whatsoever and you are a non-private patient they send you home to die.
They do not have enough machines in the public hospitals and they (a panel) decide who gets dialysis and who dies.

Okaral can pull us some info?

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: paul.karen on July 23, 2009, 07:12:45 AM
Zach i did a small search and came up wioth many articles.
I wont paste many casue for every article there is one to dispute it thus i rarly post from websites such information.
But a google seach show MANY places where there are cutoff ages on dialysis alone.
Same with people that have cancer ect ect.  Forget a transplant they wont even TREAT patients with ESRD in many places.  All due to cost. 

The costs and consequences of government-run health care show up in survival rates.

In Great Britain and New Zealand, 46 percent of women with breast cancer die.  In the United States, a quarter of breast cancer patients now die from it – that is, 75 percent here survive the disease.
 
Fifty-seven percent of British prostate cancer sufferers die.  A fourth of Canadian patients die of prostate cancer. By contrast, this cancer kills just 19 percent of its American patients.
 
Ten percent of those who undergo major surgery in Great Britain die in the hospital. Only 2.5 percent of such American patients don't survive.
 
New Zealand rations kidney dialysis. Thus, most New Zealanders over age 75 are barred from treatment for end-stage renal failure.
Rationing of care takes the form of waiting lists or restrictions on types of treatment. Bureaucrats aren't responsive to patients, and patients suffer more. The bottom line is that central government gets in the way of private medical care.

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Zach on July 23, 2009, 08:59:02 AM
Thank you paul.karen for the information.
But it would be a good idea to provide links to the sites from which those facts come.

8)
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Bill Peckham on July 23, 2009, 01:07:13 PM

New Zealand rations kidney dialysis. Thus, most New Zealanders over age 75 are barred from treatment for end-stage renal failure.


I don't have first hand information about your other data points but I know this was false in 1999 when I dialyzed in Auckland. I've seen a lot of data on NZ since and there is no indication that they ration access to dialysis. I am less familiar with the NZ transplant situation.

NZ has something like 50% of dialyzors at home. The unit I visited in 1999 was geared for self care and had a number of people over 75, including those over 75 with diabetes.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: paul.karen on July 23, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
?

Could be Bill.
Like i said for any article anyone pulls from a website there are more to disprove it.

Although that was 10 years ago. (your visit)
Without rationing here in the US i cant see how we will save money by adding so many millions more people.
Not to mention where will we get doctors (we already have a shortage) to cover the 50/55 Million+ to be insured.

Plus Des made a statement as well about S. Africa.

Zach your right i should have posted the link i quess.  But any qucik google will show much the same.  Thus i dont like to post links.  I have no reason to make stuff up, im also dealing with this disease.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Stoday on July 23, 2009, 04:42:23 PM
I have seen some of the comments about the UK’s NHS elsewhere — in US propaganda that seeks to maintain the status quo. It may have been true to some extent a decade or more ago, but not now. In the last ten years the UK has doubled expenditure on the NHS bringing the standards up to the rest of Europe.
No one has to use the NHS; anyone can use a private hospital and, if they need to do so, pay insurance to cover the cost. I do so, although I intend to stop paying for it at the end of the current year because my recent experience with the NHS shows that I’m wasting my money.

I’ll answer some comments from my personal experience.

The UK has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe.

That’s not true. Using the World Health data published in 2008 the following European countries have a higher suicide rate than the UK (in order from highest to lowest):
Lithuania, Slovenia, Hungary, Latvia, Belgium, Estonia, Finland, France, Poland, Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Sweden, Bulgaria, Germany, Slovakia, Romania, Portugal, Ireland, Netherlands, Spain, Italy.

The following are lower than the UK:
Malta, Greece.

in order to have blood-tests etc I am forced to pay.

I have monthly blood tests which cost me nothing.

OK lets say we give an additional 55/70 million people free healthcare.  We dont have enough doctors to cover these extra people.

So you have 55/70 million people who need health care but don’t get it?

In Great Britain and New Zealand, 46 percent of women with breast cancer die.  In the United States, a quarter of breast cancer patients now die from it – that is, 75 percent here survive the disease.
 
2004 statistics are: UK death rate 32%, US death rate 23% (Click (http://www.imaginis.com/breasthealth/statistics.asp#1) )

Bureaucrats aren't responsive to patients, and patients suffer more

Indeed so. It seems to me that the US system has more bureaucrats than the NHS owing to the need to invoice and pay fees.

I can’t find anything to substantiate the major surgery issue nor the prostate mortality.

These 55/70 million people who don’t get health care because there are too few doctors — are they included in the statistics? Or are the statistics “improved” by excluding the deaths of these people?
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: BigSky on July 23, 2009, 05:17:05 PM
These 55/70 million people who don’t get health care because there are too few doctors — are they included in the statistics? Or are the statistics “improved” by excluding the deaths of these people?

These people do have access to healthcare, can and do receive it.   They are the amount that most likely has no health insurance.

The problem is these people most likely go through the emergency room to get their healthcare which raises the costs for everyone.

Its trying to stem the millions of dollars wasted by visits to the ER that are not needed and could be handled by a GP.

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: plugger on July 23, 2009, 07:16:20 PM

The problem is these people most likely go through the emergency room to get their healthcare which raises the costs for everyone.

Its trying to stem the millions of dollars wasted by visits to the ER that are not needed and could be handled by a GP.

And as may have been pointed out, there is the other end of the spectrum: people who wait until the last minute to go to the emergency room because they don't know something is sneaking up on them or they are terrified of the medical bill - I understand they really run costs!

Anyway, if people are interested in this, I would recommend the following:

Physicians for a National Health Program (great FAQs and articles)
http://www.pnhp.org/
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Zach on July 23, 2009, 08:52:52 PM

I’ll answer some comments from my personal experience.


Thank you, Stoday, for adding your perspective to the discussion.

8)
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: kristina on July 24, 2009, 12:23:01 AM
I have seen some of the comments about the UK’s NHS elsewhere — in US propaganda that seeks to maintain the status quo. It may have been true to some extent a decade or more ago, but not now. In the last ten years the UK has doubled expenditure on the NHS bringing the standards up to the rest of Europe.
No one has to use the NHS; anyone can use a private hospital and, if they need to do so, pay insurance to cover the cost. I do so, although I intend to stop paying for it at the end of the current year because my recent experience with the NHS shows that I’m wasting my money.

I’ll answer some comments from my personal experience.

The UK has one of the highest suicide rates in Europe.


That’s not true. Using the World Health data published in 2008 the following European countries have a higher suicide rate than the UK (in order from highest to lowest):
Lithuania, Slovenia, Hungary, Latvia, Belgium, Estonia, Finland, France, Poland, Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Sweden, Bulgaria, Germany, Slovakia, Romania, Portugal, Ireland, Netherlands, Spain, Italy.

The following are lower than the UK:
Malta, Greece.

in order to have blood-tests etc I am forced to pay.

I have monthly blood tests which cost me nothing.

OK lets say we give an additional 55/70 million people free healthcare.  We dont have enough doctors to cover these extra people.

So you have 55/70 million people who need health care but don’t get it?

In Great Britain and New Zealand, 46 percent of women with breast cancer die.  In the United States, a quarter of breast cancer patients now die from it – that is, 75 percent here survive the disease.
 
2004 statistics are: UK death rate 32%, US death rate 23% (Click (http://www.imaginis.com/breasthealth/statistics.asp#1) )

Bureaucrats aren't responsive to patients, and patients suffer more

Indeed so. It seems to me that the US system has more bureaucrats than the NHS owing to the need to invoice and pay fees.

I can’t find anything to substantiate the major surgery issue nor the prostate mortality.

These 55/70 million people who don’t get health care because there are too few doctors — are they included in the statistics? Or are the statistics “improved” by excluding the deaths of these people?


You have written such a lot, and it is very interesting, 
but I still don't know what you have to do in exchange to receive your NHS- health service?
That is what I really wish to know. Thank you for the information, Kristina.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: rose1999 on July 24, 2009, 03:06:50 AM

No one has to use the NHS; anyone can use a private hospital and, if they need to do so, pay insurance to cover the cost.


I have to take issue with this statement as only those who can afford it can take out insurance, and in addition to that it will not cover you for any existing conditions, so a lot of people can't get insurance.  The NHS is good in so far as no-one is turned away because they can't pay but equally, living in a rural area as I do, there is in effect no choice, the nearest hospital is 30 miles away so we can't really choose where to be treated and it is still a lottery at to whether specific treatments are offered by your particular PCT.  There is certainly room for improvement and we have had a lot of negative experiences, but I still wouldn't want to change it for a system where you can only get treatment if you can pay.  :twocents;
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: paul.karen on July 24, 2009, 05:29:53 AM
Stoday your response was from a 2004 survey.  Mine was from a 2008 survey.  But again anything from the net can be contradicted by an opposing google search.  I myself truly could contradict myself on most anything i talk about with google searches.  Thus i dont find them all that relevant in a general discussion.  But some people live and swear by anything they find on the computer.

You live there you know much more about your system then i could start to think about.  But others i know could disagree with you.  And im not referring to anyone on these boards.  Just like you have myths and thoughts about our medical system.

it is ILLEGAL to refuse medical attention to anyone who goes to an emergency room.
Many of the people who dont have insurance are grown people who make over 300X the poverty rate in America.  They choose not to get medical insurance.
many other people who qualify for insurance are the YOUNG population who dont want to spend $30 a week out of there paycheck to get coverage from there workplace,
Yet an even greater amount of people CAN insure there children under our S-Chip program but are to lazy to sign there children up for this free coverage.
All (are most) of our disabled get some form of free insurance.  Most all seniors receiver medicade if they sign up for it(i could be wrong).
For the people who can be insured but choose not to these people are all in the numbers Obama talks about.  If these people refuse to sign up at work for insurance there employer will have to pay higher taxs.  It is almost a forced insurance plan.
Again dont get me wrong we need reform.
When we develop medicines and Canada and the rest of the world pay a 1/4 of what Americans have to pay that is ridiculous.  Us Americans pay for the lab work the logistics the ingredients and the trails to test new drugs which can run into millions if not billions of dollars.  Then when the pills are approved for the market we pay (example) Cozar American price $15 dollars a pill  Price for the rest of the world $ 4 dollars a pill.  (is this fair) So we are getting screwed all around.
Yes we need reform just not if it involves a government run program.  Like i stated earlier examples of government run programs like Social Security-medicare- on and on all have big cost overruns, corruption, payoffs schemes and are at present all set to be bankrupt in just a few short years.

The vast majority of Americans want reform
The vast majority of Americans dont want the reform to be run by government.  I think most everyone would agree with this.

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: plugger on July 24, 2009, 08:01:33 AM

The vast majority of Americans dont want the reform to be run by government.  I think most everyone would agree with this.


I'm afraid I don't agree, and from polls I've seen I may be with the majority - may have to look those up.  I have government-run government-paid-for health care and I couldn't be happier - the VA:

"Best Medical Care in the US" from BusinessWeek:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_29/b3993061.htm

Anyway, if you want information that isn't from some right-wing propaganda machine and bases their opinion on a lot of facts and stats - and has a lot of articles from all over the nation, I would highly recommend Physicians for a National Health Program:
http://www.pnhp.org/

I admit years ago I too did think the free market had the cure for just about anything, I was so wrong.  I'm actually seeing more Republicans catching on to this too.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Rerun on July 24, 2009, 08:32:55 AM
Why should my hospital bill be $40,000 for 4 days when all I was hooked up to was an IV once a day for 2 hours?  That is EXTORTION!  Put me up at the Holiday Inn! The problem is prices.  Someone in the government needs to take a look at PRICES and put a cap on them.  You can't ever get a price on anything before you go into the hospital or surgery room.  No one can tell you what it will cost.

These doctors make too much damn money.  I don't know how much is too much, but give me a break! 

You say we can't handle 70 million more people on a national health care system.  NOT all 70 million will hit the doctors offices at once.  They're not ALL sick. They are out there already and they do not go without health care.  But, I agree they wait too long and then have to be admitted to the hospital for days or weeks. 

The Medical Arena has us under their thumb and they know it.  They charge so much because they CAN, just like BIG Oil.  Just because they can.  This is greed and it needs to be broken.

When I was healthy and had health insurance it did not give me any priority over other sick people who didn't have health insurance.  I had to get in line and there were 20 people ahead of me who would not be paying but I was given no priority for having health insurance.  What's wrong with that picture.  Why should I keep my health insurance which I pay $200 a month for when I would get the same care as those who pay nothing?  I keep doing it, and wonder why?  I could put that away for a new car.

America has gotten too soft and people have taken advantage of it.  I was ridiculed when I complained that I had insurance and others didn't and I should be seen first.  OMG you would have thought I was being racist or something.  Why should I keep paying my current health insurance with that mentality?

    :banghead;
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: BigSky on July 24, 2009, 03:54:18 PM
From my experience dealing with the VA and numerous horror stories I have heard from other vets I wouldnt trust the VA system to treat my dog.

Never seen more incompetence in a medical system than the VA.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: cariad on July 24, 2009, 04:24:52 PM
Quote
if you want information that isn't from some right-wing propaganda machine and bases their opinion on a lot of facts and stats

Plugger, thank you for providing this information.

Paul, I agree that you can find *some* quote to back up just about any wild claim on the Internet, which is why it is fairly pointless to pull all of these random statistics and give us no idea where you are getting this from. The UK has a fairly low suicide rate in the westernized world, as Stoday points out. It is higher in the US, which may be why that statistic bizarrely compares the UK with the rest of Europe rather than the US. Most of Europe also has government-run healthcare, so why are we bashing the UK here?

I think you are wrong that "the vast majority of Americans" (whatever that means) do not want government-run healthcare. Most people want to be able to stop worrying about this all the time. Most people want to know that when the next recession hits and they lose their jobs (like my highly-educated and enormously talented husband did) that it doesn't mean that their wife might die from an inability to afford COBRA payments to pay for her transplant drugs. Please don't tell me that there are any programs that were going to step in and help - I looked everywhere, and called every assistance program I could find. This is not a situation that a trip to the ER is going to help at all, and I take issue with the idea that people can always go to the ER. (Legal or not, people have left the ER without being adequately treated.)

I lived across the street from the free clinic and used to see sick people hobble over there to line up on the pavement before it opened, so that they had some chance of being seen that day. To assume that someone is too lazy or too cheap to get insurance and has no one but themselves to blame might make you feel better, but it simply does not reflect any reality I have seen in all my years in this country.

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Stoday on July 24, 2009, 06:49:40 PM

I still don't know what you have to do in exchange to receive your NHS- health service?
That is what I really wish to know. Thank you for the information, Kristina.

You have to live in one of the EU's 27 states. If you don't live in the UK, but live in the EU, you have to provide a form that entitles you to treatment. If you live in the UK you're allocated a National Insurance number, which entitles you to free treatment. Free medicines too if you're a child or over 60, otherwise the equivalent of $10 per item capped at $150 a year for all items.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: kristina on July 25, 2009, 12:51:49 AM
You know very well that I live in the UK.
You also know very well that I tell the truth.
I find it very sad that you try to "sell" the UK-health-service to the USA.
If you really were a UK-NHS-patient you would know for sure
how unfair the system has become. A patient in one part of the UK
gets treatment, whereas another patient in another part does not get treated
at all and is left on their own without any NHS-medical treatment.
That is the reason why so many patient in the UK have lost their dignity
in order to receive any medical care/treatment on the UK health system.
That is why I asked you what you yourself are giving away of yourself
 in order to receive medical care? I am not prepared to prostitute myself
in exchange for a NHS-medical care and that is why for many years
I have been forced to pay money for every blood-tests etc.
Furthermore I have no NHS-GP/doctor/specialist to go to
because I am not prepared to prostitute myself like so many others do.
I can prove with documents everything I am saying here.
Furthermore, I have sent all my documentation and documentated proof
 to the Ombudsman, Health Commission, Queen, Prime Minister etc
with the result that they do not bother because there is no authority
in the UK to protect a vulnerable fragile patient under the UK-health system.
There is not even a solicitor in the UK to be found to take on a case like mine
because there are no human rights in place to protect NHS-patients.
These human rights exist on paper only, not in reality.
To me you do not sound like a patient at all but rather like a medical person
without any feelings and without any compassion for other unwell people.
You say you are privately insured, but I know from my own experience
that ALL private health insurances in the UK do NOT insure
patients with a chronic disease like kidney failure, MCTD or SLE.
So, you are either not on dialysis which is chronic, or
you are privately insured and have nothing wrong with you.
You sound to me like a doctor who tries to sell the UK-Health system
to the US because it is the doctors who profit most of all from this system.
First of all they get all their medical education free, courtesy of the British taxpayer,
then they have huge research-factory-centers (formerly hospitals) all to themselves
where the patients are only a research-material-number and nothing else.
Furthermore, doctors in the UK make even more money by
getting paid by the Pharmaceutical Industry for their research
on many patients who are registered with them but who are often 
 not even informed about what they are being misused for.
You sound to me like one of those unfortunate people
who are called by the indigenous population in the UK as
Thatchers children and Hitlers grandchildren.
Dealing with you is not good for my health
and so I shall refrain in the future from taking part
in any of your cruel games.
I shall not answer you anymore.

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 25, 2009, 02:11:17 AM
Kristina are you english? You dont sound it.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: pdpatty on July 25, 2009, 05:59:54 AM
KICKSTART,you are in England,have you ever heard of any women forced to exchange sexual favors for healthcare? 

Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 25, 2009, 08:41:21 AM
 :rofl; pdpatty  How do you think i get my dialysis supplies  :rofl;  Joking apart this is what puzzles me , Kristina writes like she lives in the UK but doesnt come across as english. Im really baffled by some of the things she is saying about the NHS.







EDITED: Fixed smiley tag error-kitkatz,Moderator
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Stoday on July 25, 2009, 09:03:31 AM
I’m flattered that Kristina should think I’m an overpaid doctor getting back-handers from the pharmaceutical industry.  :beer1;

In fact, I started my career as an engineer, my education paid by a scholarship from an engineering company. In 1995 I started a consulting business that took me to some 20 countries around the world. That came to an end in 2005 when I suffered a heart attack. My only connection with any health service is as a patient.

As for medical insurance, this is essential for an owner of a small company. It enables you to jump the queue for hospital treatment. To have to wait could result in the loss of the company. That it does not cover chronic afflictions is irrelevant in these circumstances. I can choose to be treated under private insurance or the NHS. In the event, I think that I wasted my money: the NHS has been able to give me appropriate and timely treatment anyway.

My observations on the NHS are from my personal experience. I just cannot understand Kristina’s criticisms because they are so unlike my experience. In particular I do not understand what she means by “I am not prepared to prostitute myself in exchange for a NHS-medical care”.

Kristina — it’s clear that you should be getting medical help from the NHS; it’s sad that you are not.

 :bestwishes;
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Bill Peckham on July 25, 2009, 01:55:58 PM
I still don't know what you have to do in exchange to receive your NHS- health service?
That is what I really wish to know. Thank you for the information, Kristina.

By the looks of things I am too late but in the UK about 8% of GNP is spent on healthcare. Through VAT taxes and income taxes everyone is giving up about 8% of their GNP, their income, in exchange for healthcare. In the US we are giving up 16% of our GNP. One thing that is never acknowledged is that in theory if the US were to adopt that British system that we could fund it at twice the rate without increasing overall spending. What would the NIH look like with twice the funding?

Another way to put it is that in the UK you're spending less than $3,000 per person while in the US we're spending over $6,000.

Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development data summarized here (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/us-health-spending-breaks-from-the-pack/)
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/us-health-spending-breaks-from-the-pack/
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: cariad on July 25, 2009, 06:42:54 PM
Kristina, I am also puzzled by your statements and your anger. As far as I could tell, everyone was trying to understand what you were saying, but you are making vague yet alarming accusations about the NHS. I used the NHS once, and I am not a UK citizen and I was not married to my British husband at that time. I only needed to see someone briefly for a med-check, but I was never asked for any cash nor ID to get service. It seems you do not want to discuss this anymore, and that's fine, but I am truly interested in how or why a UK resident would be denied NHS access.

Personally, I thought you lived in America, since you have written about being ignored by American hospitals. Perhaps you already know this, but unless you have a form of insurance accepted by these hospitals, you would have to pay out of pocket for services. If you cannot pay, well, you are sadly wasting your time contacting American hospitals. This is how it is here, even for tax-paying American citizens who are not adequately insured. That is why I would welcome government-run healthcare, as would most people I know, but I understand there is a segment of the population that would fear this would be a living nightmare. I was sick as a child (kidney failure), so I am what is referred to as 'uninsurable'. My only hope for proper access to health insurance is through employment - either my own or through a spouse. I can't work right now, and my spouse is self-employed, which means the clock is ticking for our health insurance to run out. Bascially, my husband must choose to take a salary at some 40% less than what he currently makes just to give us access to health care. Even then, we will still most likely pay premiums, co-pays, co-insurance and deductibles, for a grand total of some outrageously huge dollar amount every year.

My husband has volunteered to be a kidney donor. Why on earth should he be forced to give up his well-paid contract position because of my health problems when he is already sacrificing more than most people would? We would not be under this stress if we lived in the UK.

I hope you manage to get your difficulties worked out. Take care.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: plugger on July 26, 2009, 08:23:19 AM
I did find this one poll that suggests those of us in favor of a single-payer, medicare-like program could be in the majority:

"Today the physicians’ group was “pleased but not surprised” that public support for a “universal health insurance program, in which everyone is covered under a program like Medicare that’s run by the government and financed by taxpayers” is high and rising rapidly. By a 2:1 margin (62 percent to 32 percent), an ABC News - Washington Post Poll released today found that the public favors national health insurance to “the current health insurance system, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance”
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2003/october/majority_of_american.php

I can understand why so many have a hard time accepting that something like medicare just might be the most cost-effective way to go - it does seem to go against economics 101 and what we have taught about monopolies.  But in the case of infrastructure it actually seems to work to just throw the money in one pot and take what you need from there: roads, fire, police, schools, military, libraries, public utilities, and yes health care can all be considered infrastructure.  What doesn't make sense is paying some corporate bureaucrat, whose main aim is to hang on to the money, before services are rendered; then expect them to happily give up the money when their little gamble doesn't pay off - a gamble that the insured individual will stay healthy.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: KICKSTART on July 26, 2009, 08:41:47 AM
Kristina = billybill in disguise ?  :rofl;
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Zach on July 26, 2009, 09:17:31 AM
Kristina = billybill in disguise ?  :rofl;

   ???
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: okarol on July 26, 2009, 10:24:24 PM
Kristina = billybill in disguise ?  :rofl;

Sheesh! She has been through a great deal of medical problems. Can we have a little love here?
Krisitina, I personally would like to know more about what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Think your doctor is finding you the best clinic? - Stark law
Post by: Savemeimdtba on July 28, 2009, 02:39:41 PM
This just doesn't sound like Kristina to me... are we sure someone didn't hack her account?  I was astonished when I saw it was her who posted what i was reading..