I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: General Discussion => Topic started by: Jonndad on October 20, 2008, 07:20:41 PM
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If you could turn back the clock to a time before you had to go on dialysis and there was a way you could totally avoid dialysis IF you agreed to eat nothing for the rest of your life and drink ONLY water would you do it. Your nourishment would come from being fed intravenously. Of course this is a hypothetical but I have a keen interest in what your response would be. I'll elaborate more in my future posts but anyone willing to take a stab at this one? tx, John
EDITED:Fixed spelling in topic title error-kitkatz,moderator
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Oh, I couldn't do it. I'm too much of a foodie. Life without chocolate, cheese, fruit, milk - not a chance!
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Oh, I couldn't do it & too imagine being hooked up to an IV all the time!!! I hate IVs as it is!!! :puke;
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Life is too good as is.
8)
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Give up a really great GREASY Cheeseburger and fries for a tube in the arm or elsewhere - sorry, ain't gonna happen......
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Nope, drinking water, and being fed through a IV wouldn't stop the hunger pains.
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I don't think I would.
My reason is simple. Life is for living and what sort of a life would it be being fed by IV and only drinking water? Even if it staved off Dialysis... for me one of the joys of life is actually *experiencing* it... and that includes stuff like travelling, cuddling and yes, eating and drinking.... and quite honestly I'd feel so much would be lost that it wouldn't be worth it. I mean we had birthday cake at dialysis today (mmmm fresh whipped cream!!! YUM!)... It might seem a bit silly, but sometimes it *is* about life's simple pleasures... which can include a much anticipated cheeseburger, cup of tea or piece of chocolate cake.
It's like right now the dieticians tell me I should have more of X and less of Y.. and I do my best to fit in but God Damnit I also want to LIVE and if that means being a bit naughty and having that cheeseburger when perhaps I shouldn't... I'd rather enjoy what time I have left (because who knows?) than exist doing things I don't want/like. Everything within reason of course...
So anyway no, I couldn't do that. Dialysis totally sucks, not not enjoying the tastes and sensations of foods and ONLY drinking water and missing out on some of those simple pleasures like juice, coffee, tea, coke, beer, etc... nope.. that would suck more IMHO.
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It would depend. If I'm just trading one needle for another, probably not. How often would I need the IV? If it's as often as I need dialysis, or more frequently - than no. If it is less frequently, and I would have more energy and not so sick to my stomach - then yes. What about costs? If it is considerably less, than I would take a look at it. Would I have less doctor appointments or hospital stays? Then yes.
I can't say that I would not consider it. It would depend on the whole picture.
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I :thx; not life is not abut crossing the finish line in perfect shape but to in joy the ride along the way at lest to me it is Carol
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Thanks so much for your responses for far. They are invaluable and critical to what I am trying to do with my own CKD of which I will post much more in the near future. Please don't put too much emphasis on the "intravenous" part. I could easily have substituted it with 3 bland drinks per day that would meet all of the body's nutritional needs. Please keep your responses coming! John
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I wanted to emphasize that with my hypothetical a person would never be hungry at all, they just could not enjoy the pleasure of food. Ok, nuff said! tx again, John
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I could not do it----- I can't even follow the renal diet ----- and water is wonderful but I'd want to drink all day long--
even if there were no needles involved, I could not do it and I hate needles --- I would have to be banned for life from every Chinese and Mexican restaurant in the world and then there are hamburgers and well everything....... could not do it and that would be murder on holidays and
birthdays and so on and so on
I'd be a worse failure at this than I am now
sorry
Twirl
ps ---- I usually do not eat b/c I am hungry--I eat b/c I like to eat
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I LOVE to eat but if I could give up all my foodie fantasies and pleasure from food in exchange for taking in a nutritional drink that would keep my body feeling really healthy and no need for dialysis, and all my pre ESRD energy and gave me back my mental sharpness in total, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment. I'd start working again, I'd make big meals for all my family and friends, I'd garden myself into the ground and I think I'd go to the gym for a full two and a half hours like I used to for the sheer serotonin of it. Ahh, bring it on.
I'd definitely not be signing up for being on intravenous 24/7 though. Gardening etc would be hell with a pole, an iv and a bag of saline, no matter how nutritious it were.
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For me, the answer is no. I absolutely hate IVs. Now, if I could turn the clock back to when I was first diagnosed with high blood pressure (which I chose to ignore), I would definitely do that. Oh, yeah, and exercise and eat properly and lose whatever excess weight I had.
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"3 bland drinks a day" instead of dialysis would be no problem for me. I sometimes work 14 hour days and never stop to eat.
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"3 bland drinks a day" instead of dialysis would be no problem for me. I sometimes work 14 hour days and never stop to eat.
Now Dave, you know that's not a good thing and I want to be the first to chastise you here about that. Mind you, you've done such a good job of staving off dialysis for so long, maybe I'm the crazy one.
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The fact is, that when a person manages the renal diet well, they can eat almost anything they want.
It's about portion control and knowing the phosphorus /potassium of what you are eating.
Information = Empowerment = A long, healthy, enjoyable life.
8)
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No way, I would not want to be hooked up to a darn I.V. 24/7 that would suck. As far as turning back the hands of time, I would not to do that either. My past is what makes me who I am today, and going back in time would mean that I don't like who I am and that I have failed in some way. So, no I would not change a thing.
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The fact is, that when a person manages the renal diet well, they can eat almost anything they want.
It's about portion control and knowing the phosphorus /potassium of what you are eating.
Information = Empowerment = A long, healthy, enjoyable life.
8)
Zach you are so right
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If I could turn back time, give up food, and replace it with 3 drinks a day, and never go through these symptoms and dialysis - I would do it in a heartbeat. I couldn't sign up for it fast enough!!
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I am pre-dialysis. I am doing everything within my knowledge to adjust my diet and fluid intake to avoid dialysis as long as possible. Would I take the fluid instead of food if it meant no dialysis? YES! Absolutely! Where do I sign up? (Would this mean I still have to cook for my family?)
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nope,no more need be said
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What Zach and RM said.....I want to continue doing as good as I am the way I am.
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I was very surprised at the response to the question. I know from your posts sialysis is a hard thing to have to endure but I couldnt believe what I just read everyone would do the foood instead of water SO dialysis is a good thing great to hear this Im not meaning to take it lightly but looking at it diffrently
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Hmm. No food or dialysis, eh? Gee, dialysis isn't THAT bad. I could never give up food and drink only water the rest of my life.
Adam
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I'm pre-ESRD and I'd be willing to try it anyway (the bland drinks though, not the IV). I'm already restricting my diet a lot to get my potassium level down. It isn't fun, but I'm just learning to change my focus away from food. Just think.... no dishes to wash, no groceries to buy!
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I was very surprised at the response to the question. I know from your posts sialysis is a hard thing to have to endure but I couldnt believe what I just read everyone would do the foood instead of water SO dialysis is a good thing great to hear this Im not meaning to take it lightly but looking at it diffrently
Well my take on it is that dialysis is a good thing insomuch as it keeps us alive. The actual process is draining and harrowing on the body but it's one of those necessary evil type situations.
For me life is about experience and enjoyment as much as it is about living... part of that is the enjoyment of the experience of food and variety of food and drink. If you took that away forcing someone to just drink water and be fed by IV that would make life more of an "existence" than a pleasureable experience... Let's say that something magical happened and you could have the choice, it might be interesting to try, or even try a mixture - a few months "off" dialysis and food, go do stuff, then a few months back "on" if it were possible.. of course if I had the time off dialysis I'd want to go travel the world like I used to... uh oh part of THAT is eating all that yummy and interesting food (or just trying Moscow McDonald's...).... hmm.. there's a problem with that isn't there?
I prefer to live life than just exist so.. I'll take the food and the dialysis needles over the no food and no dialysis....
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If I could work full-time, not have to go to the center and just drink 3 bland drinks per day. Of course, I would do it. But some days i know i would give in to temptation and nibble something.
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Interesting thread. Makes one think of what could be.
After kidney failure, dialysis, transplant with surgical errors, I would say Yes, sign me up for the water and food alternative. I could give up the food to have lived without the constant tiredness, bloated fluid filled body, etc. Hemo dialysis made me very sick. PD dialysis was much better but ended my evening life - go home from work, hook up to the cycler and no life to speak of during that time. But I was alive - so that is a great thing. So, yes, I am pretty sure if I could have had the magical drink I would go for that. There are other great joys of life than just food. (And, yes, I'm very fond of food actually but I think I would do whatever it would've taken to not have all the negative symptoms of CKD.)
Sandyb
:bunny: :bunny:
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With everything I've gone through in the last 10 years--the physical trauma, the emotional toll...YES. I would trade it all for the IV and the water. In fact, if I could see into the future THEN what my life would be like, I NEVER would have started dialysis.
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My husband Marvin (who first start dialysis in 1995, in-center hemo for over five years, transplant for three years in the middle, back on dialysis for the last five years -- now on home hemo for the last 16 months) says "NO." His exact words: "Life is good. Dialysis is a minor inconvenience. There's a difference between 'living' and 'just existing.' The no-food-and-water-only thing sounds like just existing to me. Dialysis allows me to go on LIVING." Marvin said the no-food thing would come with its own set of limitations, own problems, own inconveniences. You'd be trading one thing for another, and he believes he'll just keep the one he has.
Also, Marvin has found that he's able to eat everything he wants (limited portions of the "no no" foods). He doesn't deny himself any pleasures. He takes his binders faithfully, has 6 home hemo treatments a week, and his lab work is PERFECT (probably better than mine, and I'm the "healthy" one).
Marvin did stipulate that this would be his answer if he knew then what he knows now. He says dialysis isn't so bad (and he'll soon have his 2,000th treatment). He's learned to live with it, learned to adjust to it, learned that it's all in the way you accept it. He says if he didn't know how dialysis would be and was offered this no-food option, he might take it. But, he does know that he can live with dialysis, and he wouldn't change it (except for that second transplant he's still hoping for........).
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Yes, I would trade all the water I could drink and 3 nutrition drinks a day, no hunger pains for a normal healthy active working life. In a heart beat. I stand around and watch people eat what I can't have already. I'm use to that.
I hope your study or whatever you are doing can bring this to reality! :bow;
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Right away this made me think of my little guy. He has an acquired brain injury. I have been a Foster Parent since 94. My little guy was placed with me when he was only 8 weeks old. I spent 4 days in the hospital with him before I was able to bring him home. I went to the hospital expecting to be able to bring him home the very next day however while he was in the hospital he had contracted influenza A....ugga!
For the next 10 months we struggled trying to get him to feed.....10 months of carrying a bottle around all the time just hoping he would take an ounce here or there....
Finally, and in all honesty I did my absolute best to try to avoid this however....it was time to insert a g-tube into his abdomin. He was at first hooked up to his feed pump for 18 hrs a day. Then we were able to speed up the pump. (That came over the course of time). Then it was, "bolus" feeds. Then came the backpack 🎒. We were mobile. We could do a lot of moving around and feeding at the same time.
My understanding is/was he could not "orchestrate" the movements in his mouth to allow him to suck and then swallow. Then....his brain didn't activate the, "closing of the airway" quick enough so then he was aspirating some of his meal. G-tube solved this.
I can give him tastes of food....and as someone who enjoys their food that brought me pleasure....more than him. If you saw his face when I put something like chocolate syrup on his lips you'd understand what I mean.
He is such a happy boy and I believe brings a lot of pleasure to the people that he meets, and we meet a lot of people, He inspires me.....in ways I never would have imagined.
I guess this question just made me think of him....and I thought....he is living that life as we speak. I do hope that if he could communicate what he would choose I would hope he would choose YES...I would do that. Cause in actuality he is. He deals with so so many other issues on top of that one however......everyday I am blessed with his smile. I believe he loves life.
It makes me think of that saying, "You may be one small person in this world...but you may be the world to one small person".
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Aw, TSWST, you are a blessing to this world and to that little boy of yours. Because of you, his sun will shine tomorrow.
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MooseMom,
Thank you. :flower; YOU are a special woman I believe and I've only just, "met" you. :waving;
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Only if I can still have BBQ, fried chicken, bacon, cheeseburgers and fries. With choclate shakes, beer, and Coke to wash them down.
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Seems to me the enjoyment of life is things like sharing food, beverage, and fun with family and friends. Not merely existing.
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I really LIKE water. The mountains of the PNW there is a place I used to go hunt in the Winter. A little bubbling spring, frozen on the edges of this little 1 foot 'or less. I would lay down next to it and stick my lips in the frigid water and drink. Heaven!
Every trip I would take a cup and fill a jug to take home. Lynnwood/Everett water comes from a high mountain lake, ALMOST as good as that tiny spring water, but adulterated with the poisons added by Mankind. Dissolved mineral content is very low, almost non-existent. Mother-In-Law came up from Missouri for a few weeks to visit, couldn't drink enough of the water. MO water, here, saturated with limestone. I have a whole house filter but that only removes any solids. I installed a Reverse Osmosis unit under the kitchen sink so we have some actually decent water. From our 1000 foot well. And NO poisons. Iced, with ice made from that same RO water, it is delicious!
As much as I like some foodstuffs, I could consider giving up eating if I could have good water like my RO water, PNW water maybe, our water from that tiny spring.
I was a very physical 'Guy'. Run, Jump, Play. I had long hair, and lots of hair on my legs. Now my legs are bald and covered with Lizard Skin. I am exhausted all the time. I hardly get outside and do anything, especially not when the weather is cold. So to give up eating for the opportunity to be totally healthy again, Yea, I would definately have to be a Candidate.
Life isn't about what you can eat and enjoy, I think that may border on gluttony.
Life is to get out and DO! BE with others actively. Talk a hike, go for a walk, Dance, Play, Run, Laugh, Fall down and skin your knee.
Sitting in this warm house sorta sucks. Trapped, caged like an animal.