Do accumulated toxins make you crazy?

[fluffy]

I was just wondering about this. i noticed that right before starting hemodialysis, when i wasnt recieveing adequate dialysis on PD my stae of anxiety and paranoia was fairly high.it went away for the most part. my doctors have commented that my labs arent so great, and the anxiety and stuff is returning. I have to wonder is it the toxins causing this or am i just going crazy. id love to hear from Stauffenberg on this one

[peleroja]

I can't think of anything in the toxins that would make you feel that way.  The potassium regulates the heart, the sodium affects your blood pressure, the phosphorus affects your bones.  Keep asking questions; we'll figure it out!

[stauffenberg]

There is a condition known as uremic dementia, also sometimes called dialysis dementia, resulting from the accumulated toxins. Eventually it resolves into increasing somnolence and coma.  Long periods of time spent on dialysis also greatly increase the risk of developing Alzheimer's Disease.

[fluffy]

thanks for the help on this one you two.  hopefully extending my treatment time might stave off the craziness for a little bit. Stauffenberg, how do you know so much about all this stuff? i've read alot ofyour posts and you seem incredibly well informed.

[KICKSTART]

Anxiety can also be 'panic attacks' , i have been diagnosed with these (renal related) so im told and i also have days where i feel more anxious than others . I think disease drives us all a little crazy!!!!

[glitter]

My husband, Jack, just spent some time having MRI's and seeing a neurologist because of this.....in the end, they concluded that he was just a little squirrelly from dialysis. Those were the Dr.'s words- squirrelly- he said its just a symptom, and was not dementia,but was very common. even so- It makes  pretty worried, we just deal with it. The short term memory loss is tough also.

[kitkatz]

I feel it some days more than others.  When I am at work I can tell when the toxin crazies have me.

[KR Cincy]

I feel it some days more than others.  When I am at work I can tell when the toxin crazies have me.

blamin' it on the toxins now, are ya' Kit?   

[kitkatz]

I feel it some days more than others.  When I am at work I can tell when the toxin crazies have me.

blamin' it on the toxins now, are ya' Kit?   

I got to blame something.  Wait a minute...Did you just call me crazy?

[KR Cincy]

not me...not outloud anyway!!   

[Meinuk]

Fluffy, as far as crazy goes, I think that I came this way.   

All jokes aside, stress manifests in many ways, and even though labs are great and dialysis is going well, you are living through one of the most stressful times of your life. 

Kidney failure effects every aspect of our being, psychological and physical.  They are all tied together. So, it may not be the toxins that are doing your head in, but it could be hormones produced by stress, the roller coaster of adrenaline, change in sleep patterns, change in eating habits, blood chemistry or a combination of everything.

As much as we'd like, "normal" will never apply.  My best friend says that she knows when my BUN and creatinine are high, because I get bitchy.  I just told her to get used to it. (and I do try to be less bitchy)  I also notice that I get nervous a lot more than I ever did, but I recognize that as a healthy reaction to the unsettled nature of my life right now. Oh, and I cried all though Wall-e (GREAT MOVIE).  So, yeah, I've changed as well since starting dialysis - I guess that I am getting in touch with my sensitive side)  I'm going to stop typing now, because I am sounding crazier by the keystroke!!

I too am curious what Stauffenberg will come up with. Maybe a treatise on seratonin production.

[KR Cincy]

I have no doubt that our craziness/moodiness/depression/etc. is all a combination of physical and emotional changes we suffer through as a result of this new life we lead.

I did talk to my neph about testosterone...little did I know it affects more than just sex drive...thel literature said low testosterone can also be responsible for depression/moodiness, low energy, and a slew of other things. I checked yes to enough of them to begin a testosterone replacement therapy, so I'm hoping that will make me less bitchy and mean...I'm sure my wife hopes the same! But prior to losing my kidneys and adrenals, I had no problem with this, so while I have been depressed over my fate, it does look like there was a chemical reason for some of it as well.

Let's not kid ourselves...we are asking our bodies to do things they weren't meant to do, so there HAS to be ramifications for more than just whether we pee or not.

[stauffenberg]

Being on dialysis causes the accumulated toxins to affect the pituitary-gonadal axis, meaning that your pituitary gland, often called the 'master gland' because of its role in directing how the other glands of the body function, fails to stimulate the testes to produce a normal amount of testosterone.  Dialysis patients can eventually experience hypogonadism, in which the size of the testicles eventually shrinks.  On a scale where normal testosterone levels vary between 10 and 34, my testosterone level at the end of more than eight years of dialysis was only 2. 

Unfortunately, doctors are extremely cautious about prescribing testosterone, even for males with extremely low levels, because all they can think of is "Why create potential problems with prostate cancer for a patient who is too sick anyway to expect to have a sex life?"  Although the best research shows that testosterone only increases the risk of death from prostate cancer if there are already cancerous tumors present, but does not increase the chance of new tumors forming, few clinicians seem aware of this fact.

In practice this means that the average male dialysis patient has to wait for a renal transplant to correct this problem.

[fluffy]

im terrified of cancer, but considering that it takes a while to get a transplant id love to get some testosterone therapy, cause according to the endocrinologist my pituitary is kinda messed up. imcurrently waiting on a mri to confirm that tho. thanks for the ideas everyone

[flip]

I've had spells with the anxiety attacks. Lorazepam (Ativan) knocks it out.

[del]

Hubby's been on diaysis for 11 years and it hasn't affected his sex life!!!  Actually with the home hemo it's better than ever.     He did have a bad time when pd stoped working and toxins started to build up. I thought he was losing his mind. He saw insects coming out of the electrical plug ins, huge birds in the sky that weren't there and people on the side of the road when there was nobody!!  It was very frightening.  After he started hemo that all stopped.  he has had panic attacks and trouble with anxiety.  Think it goes with renal failure or any chronic disease.

[IUNurse]

Everyone hear seems well informed- but I guess you would be if it were happening to you.  So here are my  .  Yes, some people have anxiety/panic attacks with dialysis.  And yes, others seem to have a build of toxins (uremia) which can cause "dialysis dementia".  I think it is pretty cool that you are picking up on the way you feel when your labs are out-of-wack.  So here is the big kicker- would you be willing to do a little more time, say 15 minutes with each treatment?  Most patients would be kicking me at this point...

[fluffy]

they had me on 4 sessions a week, that was godawful,but i wouldnt mind extending my treatments by half an hour even,i could handle that.my lifes miserable as it is and another half hour wont bother me much, maybe i'll ask them about it

[CW]

I have had a similar experience - when I first started (before diagnosis) I was experiencing an odd mental state. Also if I miss a treatment, cut my time or on my long stretch between treatments (sometimes) I get meaner and I do things I would not usually do. Strange but true.

[flip]

Most dialysis centers would also be kicking you. It's referred to as "cattle call" dialysis. Get 'em in and get 'em out. And the next patients complain about the long waiting time. Another advantage for home hemo.

[del]

Even an extra 15 or 30 mins a treatment can make a big difference!!

[fluffy]

i wouldnt say i get meaner, no meaner than usual at least. but i'll sit and worry about nothing for hours and get generally paranoid. i've since learned the joys of benadryl (cant worry wehn im passed out!)

[IUNurse]

Not to lecture all, but that is why you should stay on the machine your full time.  They say cutting your treatment even 15 minutes a month can cut your life expectancy by years!!  I know I know....you don't want to hear it! 
Fluff, I curious to what your kt/v (called: k t over v) is.  I think for hemo the goal is 1.8 (I think) at least. Kt/v is your dialysis adequacy (are running long enough). 
PS.  I hope you don't think I am being condescending, I truly am just trying to help!

[CW]

Not to lecture all, but that is why you should stay on the machine your full time.  They say cutting your treatment even 15 minutes a month can cut your life expectancy by years!!  I know I know....you don't want to hear it! 

No IUNurse that is one of the reasons IHD founder Epoman created this site - so that all impacted by Dialysis could speak their minds on this issue without censure - so feel free to speak your mind
That said - I HATE DIALYSIS ! 

[stauffenberg]

A problem with the 'cattle-call' system of dialysis used at some for-profit dialysis centers in the US is that in order to maximize profit by squeezing as many patients as possible into the limited number of dialysis stations each day, some units hold all patients to a single dialysis length, sometimes as low as 3 hours per session.  This is in contrast to the system in countries with socialized medicine, where the length of dialysis sessions is tailored to the needs of each patient, and patients are even allowed to request additional time despite having 'adequate' kt/v levels at their current time.