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Author Topic: China Special: A new evil in our world  (Read 4211 times)
okarol
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« on: May 06, 2008, 10:29:34 AM »

12:34 am EDT May 01, 2008 

ExWeb China Special: A new evil in our world

"This is a form of evil we have yet to see in this planet," concluded David Kilgour, former Canadian Secretary of State after he and human rights lawyer David Matas had completed their independent investigation into allegations of organ harvesting of Falun Gong practitioners in China.

Think live lobsters in Chinese restaurant water tanks, waiting for you to walk in and order. Now imagine people in the place of the lobsters. This is not a joke. It's for real and as bad as it comes.

According to the Canadian investigation, supported by media, state reports and international human right watch groups: there are 36 death camps in China, where organs are taken while prisoners - many young and healthy people abducted by authorities - are still alive.

Made in China

The procedure is simple. If you need a heart, a kidney, a brain or a new eye retina - you just contact one of the numerous hospitals advertising transplant services in China. They'll tell you what they have in stock, or direct you to check the supply straight with a court or a prison.

There "beating hearts" are waiting for you, most in their thirties or forties, unaware of their fate. Some of the prisoners are on death row, which doesn't mean what you think. In China you can get death simply for stealing or for any political reason (such as speaking your mind against the communists). There is no law, only the word of the party. It's actually enough to ##### the wrong neighbor off.

Midnight surgeries

The prisoner is taken out of his cell into a surgery room or an ambulance. Horror rumors abound and so he probably knows by now what his fate is. He's kept alive while whatever is ordered - kidney, brain tissue, or eye retina perhaps - is cut out. Then he is killed, and burned.

The relatives, who often have no clue where he is or why, receive a phone call coldly telling them to come and pick up the ashes. The burning part is important, as the victim most probably didn't consent to his "donation."

The organ is rushed to a hospital, often a military one. One buyer in the Canadian report reported how his Chinese surgeon carried lists of prospective "donors”, based on various tissue and blood characteristics, from which he would select names, then leave the hospital (in army uniform) and return 2-3 hours later with containers bearing kidneys. 8 of them.

The survival period for a kidney is between 24-48 hours and a liver about 12 hours. Chinese pride themselves in quality as stated on the China International Transplantation Network Assistance Centre Website, "Before the living kidney transplantation, we will ensure the donor's renal function...So it is more safe than in other countries, where the organ is not from a living donor."

"Q: Are the organs for the pancreas transplant(ed) from brain death (sic) (dead) patients?"
"A: Our organs do not come from brain death victims because the state of the organ may not be good."

Recipients say the surgeries are conducted in almost total secrecy; they are not told the identity of the donors, never shown written consents from the donors or their families, the identity of the operating doctor and support staff are often not disclosed and operations sometimes occur in the middle of the night.

Financing The People's Liberation Army

In New Jersey, the waiting time for kidneys is 4-5 years, in NYC 8-10 years. Undercover journalists who have called hospitals in China have been promised organs the very next day, or a few weeks at the most. "If you could execute people to order, of course you would shorten the wait," an American transplant surgeon told a reporter.

You have noticed the soldiers' aggression and arrogance against climbers in China and Nepal right now. Imagine if you risked more than a summit to these guys; and that no one was looking.

Chinese hospitals have been privatized and so has the People's Liberation Army - with direct access to prisons and prisoners. Many of the transplant centers and general hospitals in China are military institutions, financed by organ transplant recipients. The money is used for the overall military budget.

The Organ Transplant Center of the Armed Police General Hospital in Beijing boldly states: "Our Organ Transplant Center is our main department for making money. Its gross income in 2003 was 16,070,000 Yuan. This year (2004) there is a chance to break through 30,000,000 Yuan."

Booming business

The procedure was outlawed year ago, but the ban is nothing but a smokescreen. Organ transplant surgery in China is a booming business. There were only 22 liver transplant centers before 1999; by 2006 they had mushroomed to 500. New, dedicated establishments are continuously popping up, fancy hospitals banking on a continuous - increasing even - supply.

The China International Transplantation Network Assistance Centre Website even wrote, "this is unique in the world" about the support they receive from the Chinese government.

The source

There are no incentives or ad campaigns urging people to donate their organs. The source for virtually all Chinese transplants is prisoners. Millions of Chinese people are tortured to forced confessions and put on death row each year.

99.9 of accusations result in death penalty, a Chinese defense lawyer told SkyNews. All the prisoners he had defended had ended up found guilty. The interview in the brave man's home was interrupted by the arrival of Chinese police, and shortly after he too was arrested without charge and has not been heard from since.

Falun Gong

With their healthy lifestyle, Falun Gong are the most popular "donors."

Think Californians: they eat right, exercise (preferably the slow-mo qigong), meditate, and are hooked on Buddhist values with a bit of Tao and Confucianism thrown in. It's all about physical and spiritual health and fitness to Falun Gong.

By 1999 there were about 70 million of them; they even beat the Chinese Communist Party membership (estimated 60 million) in numbers. That year, 3,000 Chinese officials met to discuss what to do about them. Chief Li Lanqing announced the government's new policy on the movement: "defaming their reputations, bankrupting them financially and destroying them physically."

Massive arrests of Falun Gong practitioners ensued that very summer. After the Chinese officials meeting, Falun Gong deaths at police hands were recorded as suicides. Thousands and thousands were thrown into human organ harvesting plants, forced to undergo exams of their kidney, blood type, skin, liver, and eyes - exams that other (non-Falun Gong) prisoners sitting right beside them didn't get.

By the end of April 2001 there had been approximately 830,000 arrests in Beijing of identified Falun Gong adherents. A large, unknown number lack in the stats for their refusal to self identify.

Since the 1999 crackdown, Falun Gong make up the overwhelming majority of prisoners of conscience in China, "they make up about two thirds of the torture victims and the documented yearly arbitrary killings and disappearances of them exceed by far the totals for any other victim group," states the independent Canadian report.

The new line of prime livestock

To the army and the hospitals, this was Kobe beef. With the party goal to "defame their reputations," the sale of organs from unwilling Falun Gong donors conveniently morphed hatred with greed. The aim to "destroy them physically,” became profitable.

Remember there were only 22 liver transplant centers before 1999; which by 2006 had mushroomed to 500.

The official, average number of prisoners executed between 1995 (1680) and 2005 (1616) remain fairly steady. However, public reports say transplants have doubled since 1999, to about 60,000 transplants in the six year period 2000 to 2005.

As organs are harvested mostly from killed prisoners, about 10,000 organs harvested yearly since the persecution of Falun Gong began don't add up. The source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is in fact unexplained.

And that's just the official figures. China Daily actually mentioned 20,000 in 2005 alone. The dark numbers indicate people sitting in harvesting plants by tens of thousands, kept alive like seafood in fish tanks to ensure fresh meat.

We don't know their exact numbers, the only sure thing is that since 1999, the numbers of organ transplants in China is huge.

The Olympic message

In 2001, the International Olympic Committee awarded Beijing the 2008 Olympics. Liu Jingmin, Vice President of the Beijing Olympic Bid, in April 2001, said: "By allowing Beijing to host the Games you will help the development of human rights."

Since then, Falun Gong organs are offered for sale on the world market, and taken from them while they are still alive. In other cases, scheduled executions are performed pending matching blood types with foreign organ buyers.

Today, China is the world center for organ transplants, and executes more people every year than all of the world together. Desperate parents cry into media cameras, losing their minds over unexplained murders of their few children. Spouses lose their very soul at the evil of it all.

David Kilgour and David Matas state in their report, "the international community, by carrying on with the Olympics in Beijing despite the deterioration of human rights in China in crucial areas, sends to China a message of impunity. The impression China must get is that it does not matter how much it violates human rights; the international community seems not to care."

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=17237
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Adam_W
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 11:20:58 AM »

Disgusting, appalling, and un-freaking-believable.
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-Diagnosed with ESRD (born with one kidney, hypertension killed it) Jan 21st, 2007
-Started dialysis four days later in hospital (Baxter 1550-I think, then Gambro Phoenix)
-Started in-centre dialysis Feb 6th 2007 (Fres. 2008H)
-Started home hemo June 5th 2007 (NxStage/Pureflow)
-PD catheter placed June 6th 2008 (Bye bye NxStage, at least for now)
-Started CAPD July 4th, 2008
-PD catheter removed Dec 2, 2008-PD just wouldn't work, so I'm back on NxStage
-Kidney function improved enough to go off dialysis, Feb. 2011!!!!!
-Back on dialysis (still NxStage) July 2011 :(
-In-centre self-care dialysis March 2012 (Fresenius 2008K)
-Not on transplant list yet.


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willieandwinnie
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2008, 11:29:02 AM »

Well said Adam.  :puke; unbelievable.
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2008, 12:24:37 PM »

Pretty soon there will be drive through transplants while you wait.
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Marlon
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 11:32:17 AM »

We need to boycot all Chinese( Commy China) products, like walmart sells and write our Congressman..
 They still have American POW from Korean war, why do we even talk to them.
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monrein
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 11:43:01 AM »

I think I might send away for one of those Olympics t-shirts on which the six rings are replaced by interlocking hand cuffs to symbolize  China's ongoing blatant abuses of human rights and utter disregard for world opinion about it.
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Pyelonephritis (began at 8 mos old)
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(2 1/2 hours X 5 weekly)
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 12:33:24 PM »

MacArthur had the right idea
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Romona
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 01:57:07 PM »

This is really disturbing.
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flip
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 02:22:29 PM »

I'm doing my part. We have 4 Chinese restaurants in our small town and I'm boycotting all of them.

On a more serious note, I still haven't forgotten my experience with the bad heparin.
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 07:11:15 PM »

The problem is the USA borrowed money from China and is not making the payments. At least I think that is half the problem anyway.
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stauffenberg
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 07:25:28 PM »

I find this pracise 100% laudible.  People who have earned the death penalty, according to the crimes they have committed assessed by the rules of the society in which they live, being executed in a properly timed and properly performed manner so that their organs can go to help innocent people in need of a transplant who would have died without these organs, is humane and logical.  Remember, these death row prisoners are going to die anyway, so where is the common sense or the morality in wasting their organs by burying them rather than saving peoples' lives by transplanting them?

Every jurisdiction on earth varies wildly in what it regards as just punishment for particular acts.  If you have intercourse with a consenting 13 year old girl in most Third World countries it is a perfectly legal act, but in most First World countries exactly the same act with exactly the same consent would be deemed statutory rape and would earn you 25 years in prison.  There simply are no objective standards for what is criminal and what is not, or how much of a punishment what act deserves.  So if China thinks stealing or disloyalty to the government warrants the death sentence, by international law they are 100% entitled to make their own laws and punishments regulating domestic actions, so these punishments are legal.  Even England two hundred year ago had the death sentence for literally every crime, no matter how minor, while in Canada it was legal to flog sailors in the Navy until 1959.  Laws vary with the times and with the culture.
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 08:13:08 PM »

How can you be sure that all those people are in fact guilty of the crimes they have been accused of?  And who's to say that one of those "innocent" people awaiting transplant has not in fact committed a crime (or crimes) just as heinous but had the financial or political wherewithal to buy off the system?  I personally am 100% uncomfortable with this idea. 
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 08:28:26 PM »

Stauff, if you really find it laudable that practitioners of Falun Gong for example or people sentenced to death through forced confessions be the major source of organ harvesting,  I think you've lost your ability to think clearly.  We are not speaking here about death row prisoners who have undergone due process and are guilty of crimes.  Did you read the posted article or simply jump at the chance to be provocative?  To condone acts of barbarism or to go further by being complicit and buying such a kidney is in my humble opinion quite immoral.  Your argument of cultural relativity in this case is quite simply nuts.  Do you really believe the rubbish you state in this post?  Should you ever need another transplant perhaps the Dalai Lama will be on death row at that time and you can hope to gain some of his wisdom in addition to restored renal function.

And don't get me started on "consensual" sex with 13 year olds in Third World countries,  unless she's doing it with her 14 year old boyfriend.  Give me a large break.

I need an icon of me shaking you (and you know I actually agree with you on many issues) but man you got lost in your own logic here I'm afraid.
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Pyelonephritis (began at 8 mos old)
Home haemo 1980-1985 (self-cannulated with 15 gauge sharps)
Cadaveric transplant 1985
New upper-arm fistula April 2008
Uldall-Cook catheter inserted May 2008
Haemo-dialysis, self care unit June 2008
(2 1/2 hours X 5 weekly)
Self-cannulated, 15 gauge blunts, buttonholes.
Living donor transplant (sister-in law Kathy) Feb. 2009
First failed kidney transplant removed Apr.  2009
Second trx doing great so far...all lab values in normal ranges
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2008, 08:44:40 AM »


 People who have earned the death penalty, ...


Ever hear about the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
 8)
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Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
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I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
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stauffenberg
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2008, 09:11:47 AM »

Ever hear about the United Nations Convention against Genocide, because that is what the developed countries of the world are committing against dialysis patients by not answering their desperate, dying need for transplants!

Remember, these people being used as a source for transplanted organs are as good as dead already, since they have been sentenced to death under Chinese law.  We cannot change Chinese law; we renal patients cannot mount a commando operation and free the people waiting on death row from Chinese prisons.  So given that these prisoners are already condemned and are just waiting for the timing of their execution, the only option we and the rest of the world have are to choose either to throw their organs away at executioin and thus murder many more dialysis patients who are completely innocent, or use them to save lives that will otherwise be lost.  There is only one logical answer to this situation, which is to use the organs and salvage at least some good from the unfortunate legal situation in China.

I mentioned the wide variety of criminal law concepts and notions of appropriate sentencing to show that there simply are no universal standards of justice which some omniscient mind can tell us all cultures and all historical eras must follow in order to be fair.  French courts, for example, allow the admission of evidence to convict people of serious crimes which, if admitted in a common law court, would constitute a mistrial for reliance on improper evidence.  Each culture has its own idea of what is fair.  But even if we don't agree with the way a society runs its criminal justice system, the fact that we cannnot change it means that we should at least try to salvage from it whatever good can still be achieved, and that means not wasting the organs of executed people.

If dialysis patients don't start thinking radically in terms of their liberation from the cruel, stupid, and murderous transplant rules that the healthy majority has imposed on our vulnerable minority, then how can we ever hope to reform majority culture to make transplantation more accessible?
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willieandwinnie
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« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2008, 09:14:16 AM »

Oh Lord.............  :popcorn;
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« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2008, 09:21:06 AM »

Stauff have you signed up to be a bone marrow donor yet?
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2008, 01:38:26 PM »

I can't, since I have too many co-morbidities.  But developing the implication of your question,I think it would be an interesting idea to deal with the shortage of available organs for transplant to require everyone to sign an irrevocable commitment at age 18 to donate their organs after death.  Anyone who refused to sign that commitment would be forever denied eligibility for a cadaver organ for transplant.  You would get 100% of the populatioin donating their organs if you appealed to selfishness rather than altruism, and it would only be fair, since why should people benefit equally from a program to which they were not willing to contribute their equal share?
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Zach
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"Still crazy after all these years."

« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 06:31:41 AM »


... I think it would be an interesting idea to deal with the shortage of available organs for transplant to require everyone to sign an irrevocable commitment at age 18 to donate their organs after death. ...


What are the waiting times for kidney transplants in the European countries which have presumed consent?
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Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
monrein
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2008, 07:35:57 AM »

Zach, I Googled (kidney transplant wait times in countries with presumed consent and found a bunch of articles.  Opinions seem to vary but I found one stat from a British Medical Association report that said there are 25-30% more organs available under presumed consent.  Don't know how that translates into wait times.  I also read that Spain is best at retrieving organs for donation due to a combination of factors including presumed consent, public education etc.  There is quite a lot to read here.

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Pyelonephritis (began at 8 mos old)
Home haemo 1980-1985 (self-cannulated with 15 gauge sharps)
Cadaveric transplant 1985
New upper-arm fistula April 2008
Uldall-Cook catheter inserted May 2008
Haemo-dialysis, self care unit June 2008
(2 1/2 hours X 5 weekly)
Self-cannulated, 15 gauge blunts, buttonholes.
Living donor transplant (sister-in law Kathy) Feb. 2009
First failed kidney transplant removed Apr.  2009
Second trx doing great so far...all lab values in normal ranges
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2008, 07:39:11 AM »

Given what humans have been known to be capable of in the past (Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia etc) this sort of thing is 100% believeable and is sad that many wsterners aparently are taking advantage of the system, which in turn props it up with the foreign income generated which continues the circle. After the Philipines have aparently closed the door on foreign transplants a lot of this "traffic" might move to China now.

sigh.

I would never become a part of that.. no matter how great my need for a kidney.
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3/1993: Diagnosed with Kidney Failure (FSGS)
25/7/2006: Started hemo 3x/week 5 hour sessions :(
27/11/2010: Cadaveric kidney transplant from my wonderful donor!!! "Danny" currently settling in and working better every day!!! :)

BE POSITIVE * BE INFORMED * BE PROACTIVE * BE IN CONTROL * LIVE LIFE!
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2008, 06:17:48 AM »

There is no legislative bill before the Philippine congress regarding transplants. The article from the Philippines quote the secretary of the Health Dept saying in a few weeks or so.That looks like he doesn't have the power but their congress would.So that door hasn't closed.
  Getting back to the Chinese, we are one of their biggest trading partners. Not only do they sell a lot more then we sell to them, weakening the dollar, they violate our values. I think they would change their tune if we put a large tariff on their exports to us.
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