Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[Hemodoc]

To sum up:

The God of Islam is not the same as the Christian God because the former has no son.

The God of Judism is the same as the Christian God because although the Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God, all the rabbis in the world and all those who have died, have got it wrong. If they had interpreted the prophesies correctly, as Hemodoc has, Judism would accept Jesus as the son of God.

Let's go a little bit more in depth on the issue of the name of Allah.  Is it the same as the name of God in the Bible?  Take a look at the New York Times.  Malaysia is in a complete turmoil over Catholics using the name of Allah in a translation of the Bible.

Churches Attacked in Malaysian ‘Allah’ Dispute

By SETH MYDANS
Published: January 8, 2010
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia — Three Christian churches were attacked with firebombs Friday as tensions rose in a dispute over whether Christians could use the word “Allah” in this largely Muslim nation.

Later in the day, small crowds rallied outside two major mosques in the capital, in a growing protest over a court ruling that overturned a government ban on the use of “Allah” by Roman Catholics as a translation for God.

The government has appealed that ruling, insisting that the ban should remain in force, and made no move to bar the unsanctioned rallies, as it commonly does.

But a police helicopter hovered low over the front of the city’s central mosque, drowning out the words of the speakers on its balcony.

“Allah is only for us,” said Faedzah Fuad, 28, who participated in the rally. “The Christians can use any word, we don’t care, but please don’t use the word Allah.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/09/world/asia/09malaysia.html

So, no need to take the opinion of Hemodoc, just look on the front pages of our newspapers and see that the Muslims of Malaysia are upset to the point of protest about using Allah for the name of the God of the Bible.  I understand that the popular misconception is that the God of the Bible and Allah are one and the same, but apparently the people in Malaysia that worship Allah have a substantial disagreement with that contention. 

[Hemodoc]

Here is a video that gives a pretty good synopsis of the name of Allah issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT9SJbtcCeQ

Take a look at one of the comments below the video:

"Allah is not a christian god, and if catholics decide to call their god Allah then they've just made a new enemy out of me."

[jennyc]

From my perspestive (not based on any teachings, readings etc), this is how i reconcile all the religions... all the 3 religions started in the same general area (right?), along the line they are bound to branch off into different religions. As a Christian/spiritual person i believe that there is only 1 true God, but i don't believe that the other religions have it wrong, more in point they are different facets of the same GOD represented in a different cultural light. The individual teachings may be different and I would never use the name Allah to refer to the Christian GOD but in order for people to learn to accept other nationalities and religions and cultures we need to be able to identify with them. It is human nature, and unfortunately it is also human nature (as has been proven so many times) that if we cannot or will not find a common ground then we will war for supremecy or simply take over (eg the missionaries in papua new guinea and africa, even the Australian Aboriginals. look at the damage they have done the the native culture... yes there are improvements but on the same token they destroyed whole cultures to push their own and in many cases the improvements were temporary and it left the people worse off).

So for me, finding common ground is the best way to identify with another person and to accept his own beliefs. They may not be my beliefs but i can accept his way of thinking...... It's not perfect, i'm not always able to do it (i'm human, i falter, i judge) but i try my hardest to live by that. I believe that so long as a person is honest to their beliefs then they are living and lives a good life then they are living as God wished. (I.E not being my hubs sister in law and hedging your bets... a devout hindu woman who baptised herself, daughter and husband catholic just becuase she wants her daughter to attend a catholic school..... maybe.... to do that is denying her true self and her beliefs and insulting her own Gods).

I hope that makes sense. Sorry i used to know the bible back to front but since leaving school i havent really read it so i can't get into a scripture debate (we had to take religious studies all through school and sit religion as part of our HSC.... our year 12 leaving certificate)

[fc2821]

This is all WAY over my head.  I've never heard of some of this stuff.  I sound like an idiot.  Sorry.

nursewratchet, you are not an idoit. They are just on their own tangent.
Peter, (hemodoc) you are discussing dogma and doctrin of the various religons. Christrianity sprang from Judaism. Jesus was a jew, remember. In his time, it was debated by his follows as to wether non jews could be included as his followers. This debate went on for the next 50 years. Yes, you will find pasages in the bible refering to this topic. Why? Beuse it was a" hot topic" among them at the time. So, was the subject, "Is this the same God?'  The result, a set of "I beliive, this is what we should do" letters passed between the various groups of Christans.  Some of these are in the Christian bibles (I say "bibles", as the standard Protestant bible and the Chatholic bible do not contain the the same texts. The Protetestants, felt some of the texts or books were not represenative of their beliefs.)  So, quoting scripture to bolster your point is only saying "I agree with the author". Is that wrong? No, this is the way you believe. Your sources reflect your views.  They would after all, how else could make your point.  Those who accept these beliefs, feel they are the correct way the other way is incorrect. Who is to say that that the other interpration of of what it ment to be a good  and faithful follower of Jesus is wrong? The  bible?  Which bible? The associated commentaries by those that accept a particle view point? Yes, you (the individual) must find what "speaks" to you.
    Stosy, you are correct, when you say if the the first century jews had accepted Jesus as their messiah, things would be different. They did not. A new religon sprang up, it included non jews and people like hemodoc and I find it is what we prefer. We might  disagree on how to believe in our faith, but that is what it is. Faith in the princaples of what it means to worship God.
     But is it the same God? Well the Chritians accept the same "texts", to a point. I refer to te "old Testament". Tge difference is how they view this God annd worship this God.
    Peter tou have found what "speaks" to you. Good, but don't be upset  if others do not accept those beliefs.
    I think it has been  a good exchange of views.   
    As for the topic, is the God of the Christians the the same as Allah.  Mohamed took was well versed in both the Christian and belief systems (their dogma and doctrin as well a monothiestic God) but it is believed God spoke to him telling him their views of God and how to worish God were incorrect.  The Koran mentions Abraham, jewish profets and Jesus. These people contribute to the religon. The Muslems believe both the Jews and Christians are impoperly worshipng God. Momhamed was given the correct way to do so by God.
    The Muslims  in Indonesia are upset because for Christians to use the word is an insult to their beliefs. In their belief this a use of their religous word by those who do not accept their beliefs.
      But does this prove one way or another their God is the same God? You would have to read their religious writings. What  do they say?
      This is about what you believe.  A the teaching of a certain relion or branch (sect) of tgat religon onnes yoou accept as devine.You must decide.
      Of course you feel the beliefs you accept are the correct way and because you do, you wish to share them with and convience others
that this is the proper way to vview and worship God. Nothing with that. You might convience someone to see things  your way. Tge You" I refer to here is not a particular poster here but whoever reads this.
      I apologise for typoraphical error ( hope none are missed as to change my meaning). I am typing this one haned, one chrarter a time, on a touch screen key board (it wants to skip letters, caps lock, and use the letter I did touch but one above below or next to the the one I've touched.  Of ourse I have to pause so that  mmy blood presure can be taken. In ahoort it not easy to type suchh a post.
      Enjoiy, share, discuss. Be nice to each othher when doing so.     

[paris]

Oh no, I am setting myself up for trouble here.    I have been talking to a Muslim friend to understand his view on our conversations here.  In his Arabic speaking country, all Christians and Jewish use the word Allah for God.  It is an Arabic word that any Arabic speaking person (Muslim, Christian or Jew) says.    Allah al-ab means God the Father.  My friend is slightly amused at all the controversy. He says "God" when speaking English, "Allah" when talking to his family and "Dieu" when speaking French.  Three names for the same God.     There are many times in Christian churches we say "Yahweh" in songs or prayers.  It is Hebrew for "I am" in the book of Genesis and is used when God revels himself to Moses.   So many names, so many stories and three major religions from one small town, Jerusalem.   Two religions went on to honor Jesus as a prophet and one believed He was the Son of God.  To this day, a Muslim family (for many centuries)  holds the key to the door of the most holy place - Sepulchre, thought to be where Jesus is buryed.    Now, like Epoman, I willl sit back and wait for the boxing gloves to come on      and the rumble to continue.     

[willowtreewren]

 

[paris]

I am sitting with you Aleta and I brought the   

[del]

I'll bring a snack and lots of  and sit with paris and aleta.  Should get interesting.

[Stoday]

Let me be the first to avoid disappointing Willowtreewren et al.

Hell will freeze over before Hemodoc and I can agree on these issues. Nevertheless, I respect his right to hold and express his religious views and so I do not use dishonest arguments to support my side.

Dear Stoday, I detect some sarcasm in this post,

I was not being sarcastic: that was my honest summary of Hemodoc’s rather long passage as I understood it. I’m sorry to say that Hemodoc’s response does not add anything to the argument about the identity of God in the three main religions. Happily other posters, more eloquent than I, have done so.

Yet again, Hemodoc leaves out parts of the story when quoting the Indonesian “Allah” issue so that he can draw the opposite conclusion from that of a disinterested observer. The facts are:
1)   The Indonesian Muslims got the government to declare that only they could use the word “Allah” to refer to God.
2)   The Indonesian Christians took the issue to court, saying that they had precedent to use “Allah” for God and thus the word could not be reserved for Muslims only.
3)   The Christians won the court case and that resulted in the disturbances.

In my experience, only someone who has difficulty supporting his views uses dishonest forms of argument.

[Hemodoc]

Let me be the first to avoid disappointing Willowtreewren et al.

Hell will freeze over before Hemodoc and I can agree on these issues. Nevertheless, I respect his right to hold and express his religious views and so I do not use dishonest arguments to support my side.

Dear Stoday, I detect some sarcasm in this post,

I was not being sarcastic: that was my honest summary of Hemodoc’s rather long passage as I understood it. I’m sorry to say that Hemodoc’s response does not add anything to the argument about the identity of God in the three main religions. Happily other posters, more eloquent than I, have done so.

Yet again, Hemodoc leaves out parts of the story when quoting the Indonesian “Allah” issue so that he can draw the opposite conclusion from that of a disinterested observer. The facts are:
1)   The Indonesian Muslims got the government to declare that only they could use the word “Allah” to refer to God.
2)   The Indonesian Christians took the issue to court, saying that they had precedent to use “Allah” for God and thus the word could not be reserved for Muslims only.
3)   The Christians won the court case and that resulted in the disturbances.

In my experience, only someone who has difficulty supporting his views uses dishonest forms of argument.

Dear Stoday, why do you continue to allege that I am dishonest, not only in this post but in others as well?  You accused me of being dishonest and not including Zechariah 13:2-5 on my post talking about Zechariah 13:6.  In response to this false allegation, I included a very long discourse on the context of Zechariah 13:6 covering over two chapters. You state my long post added nothing. Fair enough, I haven't convinced you, but please do not falsely accuse me of being dishonest.  If you wish to discuss issues, go to it.   But please do not try to denigrate my integrity.

Secondly, I do not believe I have ANY difficulty supporting my views at all.  If anything, my difficulty is only in summarizing them succinctly which is not always an easy chore.  Are you trying to instigate a confrontation between you and me with your false allegations?  If so, I am not the least interested in getting into anything of that sort.  Thanks, but no thanks.

On the other hand, if you wish to discuss issues, what a great thing to do.  I would remind you that the IHD Admin has reminded all that they do not want to deal with insults and false innuendos on this thread.  So, please do not accuse me of being dishonest or unable to put forth a forceful argument.

Further, I will not get into a personality clash with you just because you do not agree with the issues that I have brought forth.

[Hemodoc]

Oh no, I am setting myself up for trouble here.    I have been talking to a Muslim friend to understand his view on our conversations here.  In his Arabic speaking country, all Christians and Jewish use the word Allah for God.  It is an Arabic word that any Arabic speaking person (Muslim, Christian or Jew) says.    Allah al-ab means God the Father.  My friend is slightly amused at all the controversy. He says "God" when speaking English, "Allah" when talking to his family and "Dieu" when speaking French.  Three names for the same God.     There are many times in Christian churches we say "Yahweh" in songs or prayers.  It is Hebrew for "I am" in the book of Genesis and is used when God revels himself to Moses.   So many names, so many stories and three major religions from one small town, Jerusalem.   Two religions went on to honor Jesus as a prophet and one believed He was the Son of God.  To this day, a Muslim family (for many centuries)  holds the key to the door of the most holy place - Sepulchre, thought to be where Jesus is buryed.    Now, like Epoman, I willl sit back and wait for the boxing gloves to come on      and the rumble to continue.     

Dear Paris, thank you for your thoughtful comment.  I am well aware that there are many in the Arab world that use Allah for the God of the Bible.  In fact, in the last few years here in America, many missionaries have been raising money for Bible translations using Allah.  Many including me believe that this is Scriptural dangerous since we are saved BY the NAME of Jesus.  I will forgo a proof of this for brevity sake, but it is part of Christian doctrine that we need to call upon the name of Jesus to be saved.  If this is fundamentally true, then the confusion that many are bringing over the issue of Allah or Jehovah is spiritually important.

Many Muslims who adhere to what the Koran states understand that the two are different and cannot be reconciled.  That is why I posted the two articles on the protests and church burnings in Malaysia.  I would suggest it is better to understand why these churches are being burned.  If there is no difference between Allah and God, then why are these people burning churches over this issue?

Here is an excellent comparison between Allah and the God of the Bible.  If people wish to believe that they are the same, so be it, but I would consider the sources of their information in this.  If the Bible and the Koran are not enough to convince, then I shall stand down and let people believe what they wish to believe.  For myself, I know who I worship and His name is Jesus, the Son of the living God, the Messiah, known in Greek as the Christ.  Not any new Hemodoc doctrine, just basic Christian doctrine that I learned from the Bible.

http://www.johnankerberg.org/Articles/_PDFArchives/islam/Christianity-vs-Islam.pdf

[Hemodoc]

This is all WAY over my head.  I've never heard of some of this stuff.  I sound like an idiot.  Sorry.

nursewratchet, you are not an idoit. They are just on their own tangent.
Peter, (hemodoc) you are discussing dogma and doctrin of the various religons. Christrianity sprang from Judaism. Jesus was a jew, remember. In his time, it was debated by his follows as to wether non jews could be included as his followers. This debate went on for the next 50 years. Yes, you will find pasages in the bible refering to this topic. Why? Beuse it was a" hot topic" among them at the time. So, was the subject, "Is this the same God?'  The result, a set of "I beliive, this is what we should do" letters passed between the various groups of Christans.  Some of these are in the Christian bibles (I say "bibles", as the standard Protestant bible and the Chatholic bible do not contain the the same texts. The Protetestants, felt some of the texts or books were not represenative of their beliefs.)  So, quoting scripture to bolster your point is only saying "I agree with the author". Is that wrong? No, this is the way you believe. Your sources reflect your views.  They would after all, how else could make your point.  Those who accept these beliefs, feel they are the correct way the other way is incorrect. Who is to say that that the other interpration of of what it ment to be a good  and faithful follower of Jesus is wrong? The  bible?  Which bible? The associated commentaries by those that accept a particle view point? Yes, you (the individual) must find what "speaks" to you.
    Stosy, you are correct, when you say if the the first century jews had accepted Jesus as their messiah, things would be different. They did not. A new religon sprang up, it included non jews and people like hemodoc and I find it is what we prefer. We might  disagree on how to believe in our faith, but that is what it is. Faith in the princaples of what it means to worship God.
     But is it the same God? Well the Chritians accept the same "texts", to a point. I refer to te "old Testament". Tge difference is how they view this God annd worship this God.
    Peter tou have found what "speaks" to you. Good, but don't be upset  if others do not accept those beliefs.
    I think it has been  a good exchange of views.   
    As for the topic, is the God of the Christians the the same as Allah.  Mohamed took was well versed in both the Christian and belief systems (their dogma and doctrin as well a monothiestic God) but it is believed God spoke to him telling him their views of God and how to worish God were incorrect.  The Koran mentions Abraham, jewish profets and Jesus. These people contribute to the religon. The Muslems believe both the Jews and Christians are impoperly worshipng God. Momhamed was given the correct way to do so by God.
    The Muslims  in Indonesia are upset because for Christians to use the word is an insult to their beliefs. In their belief this a use of their religous word by those who do not accept their beliefs.
      But does this prove one way or another their God is the same God? You would have to read their religious writings. What  do they say?
      This is about what you believe.  A the teaching of a certain relion or branch (sect) of tgat religon onnes yoou accept as devine.You must decide.
      Of course you feel the beliefs you accept are the correct way and because you do, you wish to share them with and convience others
that this is the proper way to vview and worship God. Nothing with that. You might convience someone to see things  your way. Tge You" I refer to here is not a particular poster here but whoever reads this.
      I apologise for typoraphical error ( hope none are missed as to change my meaning). I am typing this one haned, one chrarter a time, on a touch screen key board (it wants to skip letters, caps lock, and use the letter I did touch but one above below or next to the the one I've touched.  Of ourse I have to pause so that  mmy blood presure can be taken. In ahoort it not easy to type suchh a post.
      Enjoiy, share, discuss. Be nice to each othher when doing so.   

Dear fc2821, thank you for your post on these issues.  Actually, there are many that have stated I will be disappointed that people will not believe as I do.  Let me clarify why I post on this thread since August of this year.  I have preached to hard core criminals in a maximum security prison with LWOPS, (Life w/o parole) and long timers convicted of every horrible crime conceivable. During those many years, there is only one person that I believe really got what I was trying to teach. In such, I have no misconceptions whatsoever about people accepting my beliefs, which are not mine at all, I simply preach and believe what the Bible states.  The only reason I have posted here at all is due to the gross misconceptions about the Bible.  In such, I have used direct quotes from the Bible showing what it states directly so that other people can actually hear and read what it says, not what someone says it says who do not state correctly what it says.

Now, if we do not discuss doctrine and dogma and more importantly let the works in question, the Bible and the Koran, speak for themselves, then what shall we use are our measure of discussion for these issues?  My answer to this question is to go to the source documents with representative writings for all to look at for themselves and make up their own mind.

Now, with that background out of the way, let's get back to a simple statement that you made about the protests in Malaysia:

  The Muslims  in Indonesia are upset because for Christians to use the word is an insult to their beliefs. In their belief this a use of their religous word by those who do not accept their beliefs.

That really is the heart of the issue of whether the God of the Bible is Allah or not.  Why are they so upset over an apparent trivial matter?  Why are they burning buildings and most likely worse if this ruling is not put aside?  What is going on here?  Answer, the Koran teaches that Jesus is NOT God, that God is not three persons as the Bible teaches, and that Allah has no son.  When the Catholics, in my opinion, incorrectly and dangerously provoke the Muslim population who know what the Koran states, this is the reason why they are insulted.

My position is the Bible perspective that we must call upon the name of Jesus, our Saviour, our Messiah, our Deliverer.  Confusion over the name of God is a real spiritual issue of great eternal significance according to the Bible.   From these source documents, the Bible and the Koran, there is no reconciliation of these viewpoints between these two books.  Jesus is not reverenced in the Koran as the Son of God.  This is spoken against in the Koran.

[Hemodoc]

Peter, (hemodoc) you are discussing dogma and doctrin of the various religons. Christrianity sprang from Judaism. Jesus was a jew, remember. In his time, it was debated by his follows as to wether non jews could be included as his followers. This debate went on for the next 50 years. Yes, you will find pasages in the bible refering to this topic. Why? Beuse it was a" hot topic" among them at the time. So, was the subject, "Is this the same God?'  The result, a set of "I beliive, this is what we should do" letters passed between the various groups of Christans.  Some of these are in the Christian bibles (I say "bibles", as the standard Protestant bible and the Chatholic bible do not contain the the same texts. The Protetestants, felt some of the texts or books were not represenative of their beliefs.)  So, quoting scripture to bolster your point is only saying "I agree with the author". Is that wrong? No, this is the way you believe. Your sources reflect your views.  They would after all, how else could make your point.  Those who accept these beliefs, feel they are the correct way the other way is incorrect. Who is to say that that the other interpration of of what it ment to be a good  and faithful follower of Jesus is wrong? The  bible?  Which bible? The associated commentaries by those that accept a particle view point? Yes, you (the individual) must find what "speaks" to you.

Dear fc2821, I am not sure if you are trying to remind me that Christianity came from the Jews.  I have never postulated anything but that position.  For the sake of brevity, Jesus Himself simply said, "Salvation is of the Jews."  Many long posts could be written on this issue alone.  Unless someone wants to go there, I will limit my post at this time to the fact that salvation is of the Jews, the Jewish Messiah, named Jesus Christ of Nazareth.  Likewise, the issue of all of the different Bible translations and what should have been included that wasn't according to some beliefs.  I base what I believe on what is written in the Bible.  In fact, the entire issue of what is NT Scripture is spoken of in a few select verses by Peter and by Paul.  I will use one only at this time to simply state that the apostles knew what was Scripture and what was not at the time it was written.  God did not use a committee of folks a couple hundred years later to do this, it was done by the apostles as they were written.  This the testimony of Peter on this issue:

II Peter 3:15: And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophets, including the spread of this so called "new" religion when in fact it was all prophesied in the OT.

Example:

Isaiah 49:6: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7: Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. . .

Isaiah 49:22: Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
23: And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.
24: Shall the prey be taken from the mighty, or the lawful captive delivered?
25: But thus saith the LORD, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.
26: And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Salvation has always been meant for all of mankind through the Jews.  I see absolutely no separation between Jesus and the people He came for.  It is best spoken of as the Judeo-Christian religion.  Many OT examples of this.  Perhaps one more:

Jeremiah 31:31-34:

31: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34: And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

What is this "new" covenant spoken by the OT prophet Jeremiah?  Paul the Apostle preached Jesus Christ from this set of verses.  Over and over again, I have quoted OT prophecies fulfilled in Jesus starting with the cross.  Why is the cross so important to Christianity?  What will be the reason that the LORD in the verse above to make Him forgive their sin and remember it no more?  Salvation is of the Jews no doubt through their Messiah for the Jews and the Gentiles alike.
Edited - Fixed quote error: paris, Moderator

[fc2821]

         Greetings to all those who come to watch!  Ok, I'm home, where I can type with two hands on a keyboard.   
          Hemodoc, I wasn't being critical of you.  My point was to tell the people who sit on the sidelines (and you know who you are) that: Christanity came from Judiasm and how in the beging the followers of Jesus were formulating their "rules".  What I was refering to as dogma and doctrin.  Not everyone has studied these things like you, me and some others and they might be confused as to what the heck is going on here.   
        Same with the comments about Allah and Islam. 
         To all our fans 
         
         

[Rerun]

All Hemodoc has ever wanted is for those who aren't sure to pick up the Bible and read it. 

[fc2821]

All Hemodoc has ever wanted is for those who aren't sure to pick up the Bible and read it. 

And, there is nothing wrong with that.

[dwcrawford]

Quoting a quote from the Profile legend of Meinuk... without permission from Henri Poincare or Meinuk 


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of thought.”
Henri Poincare

Heavy?

[fc2821]

     Here's some more food for thought:

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)" 

[dwcrawford]

Good ole Albert... that's my man.

[tyefly]

  What a tread.....   I wish I could understand english   and then the bible would be easy..... 


               Are we done yet ?

[fc2821]

       I'd like opinions on this, please.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that planet Earth is the only place where God has seen fit to create life.   How do you think people will think about religon, and God if and when we make contact with another planet?   
        Me, I don't know.  That's why I asked all of you.

[willowtreewren]

I'd like opinions on this, please.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that planet Earth is the only place where God has seen fit to create life.   How do you think people will think about religon, and God if and when we make contact with another planet?   
        Me, I don't know.  That's why I asked all of you.

From my vantage point the Bible doesn't mention other worlds since it was written by people in a culture who thought the stars rested on a dome that arched over the sky. They had no concept that stars were suns or galaxies. In fact, the word planet derives from wanderer because the early people could not explain the wandering "stars" they saw in the night sky. Because these early peoples (whose emerging technology included the spade and plow) had no concept of other planets, neither did their gods. Gods as creations that spring from the creativity of human thought can only have as much knowledge as their creators can imagine.

[dwcrawford]

  What a tread.....   I wish I could understand english   and then the bible would be easy..... 


               Are we done yet ?

If only we could find links to all religious and god references and post them.. bible, koran, christian scien monitor, etc., etc.  then we could save a lot  of computer resources.     I mean just point to the reference books and let people read them for themselves (bring your translator).

It could be interesting to discuss some of the religious related issues though, and how each religious aspect would treat them.  I'm talking abortion, death penalty, eating pork (not really), having sex standing up, same sex attraction, marriage, etc.  Or would that stuff get even more contensious.   

Maybe limit an individual post to no more than 15 lines of text.  Did Epoman ever say anything about that?  Well Tyefly,  we could just go to chat and have some discussioins....That might please 3 people.

[Rerun]

Even science has to stand back in awe at the earth.  It is a miracle that water exists and air and that we stay in rotation with the Sun and other planets and that we have not been destroyed by another meteorite. 

Has anyone else been watching the History channel this week?  It is on Revelation.  One super volcano and we are done.

If we find other life (people) on planets then I will question my faith in one God through Jesus Christ.  Until then I'm pretty set.

[fc2821]

Even science has to stand back in awe at the earth.  It is a miracle that water exists and air and that we stay in rotation with the Sun and other planets and that we have not been destroyed by another meteorite. 

Has anyone else been watching the History channel this week?  It is on Revelation.  One super volcano and we are done.

If we find other life (people) on planets then I will question my faith in one God through Jesus Christ.  Until then I'm pretty set.

      Renrun,  I am sorry to hear that.  I don't think the message of Jesus would be invalidated by our comming into contact with other planets with life.  What Jesus told us to relate to each other is not less valid.