Is there a GOD? - ding! ding! ding ding geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!

[Mimi]

RichardMEL. sweetie you did not offend me.  I was trying to get everyone back on topic but as you see it didn't work.  OKarol thank you for your post.
Hemodoc I agree with everything you have posted.  I have been a Christian now for 66 years and God has never failed me.  God does not send bad times and ill health, man does that himself.  People like innocents and good people sometimes become ill for God has a purpose for it.  We do not know the answers now, but someday we will.  As the Apostle Paul says 'Now we look through the glass darkly.'
But one day we will see it all clearly and understand the decisions God
has made.
Dell of course God and religion are in the same ball park but there are many people who believe but are not members of any organized religion.  My ex daughter-in-law was brought up in a Christian home and she took my grandchildren to church when they were growing up, but she has never joined any church.
I hope we can stay on topic and keep this thread going.  I believe we can all learn alot from it.

Love to All,
Mimi     

[Hanify]

So if we're not allowed to discuss religion in a Is there a God Thread, why is it OK to discuss the bible? 

[okarol]

So if we're not allowed to discuss religion in a Is there a God Thread, why is it OK to discuss the bible?

Huh? Who said that?

[dwcrawford]

So if we're not allowed to discuss religion in a Is there a God Thread, why is it OK to discuss the bible?

Huh? Who said that?

Pasted quote:
You, RichardMel, Rocker, and Del are off topic.  'The question is: Is there a God.'  The topic is not about religion, it is about God.

Sorry folks.

Mimi
Pasted Quote

[fc2821]

     I believe there is a God.  I do not believe that God has a gender, nor do I believe that God has human emotions.  We have these and we try to understand God by attributing these human traits to God.  This is what I meant by the post about shining the light upon the wall.  God is far beyond the understanding of beings such as we are.
      Some of you  and I are different Christians.  In fact I am sure you might not think I am not one.  I believe in pacticing the teachings of Jesus in your everyday life.  You might too, I don't know.  I don't go to church, though.  Never found one that believed as I do. Being a Christan is more than just attending church regularly and reading the bible, to me. Most organized religion is bogged down in doctrine. 
      I also don't think it is correct to judge others, not saying anyone here has.  God gave us the ability to know what is right and what is wrong.  The choice is yours to do either. 
      Like some others I believe there is purpose to our existence whether we are able to recognize it nor not.  To me, one of the purposes of our existence is to interact with each other.  How you do this is your choice. 
       My God is my God.  My God is not better than anyone else's God, but to me.  Everyone must find God in their own way,  and must be willing to do so.   God exists if you let God exist in you.  If you don't want to, that is ok, you have this thing called free will.
        I know this isn't how some believe, and if you are offended by how I believe know  I did not tell you this to offend you or upset you. 
        And if I might quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

[okarol]

So if we're not allowed to discuss religion in a Is there a God Thread, why is it OK to discuss the bible?

Huh? Who said that?

Pasted quote:
You, RichardMel, Rocker, and Del are off topic.  'The question is: Is there a God.'  The topic is not about religion, it is about God.

Sorry folks.

Mimi
Pasted Quote

Wrong again dear Dan.
The topic is "geeeeet reaaaaaady toooooo rummmmble!!!!" LOL 

[fc2821]

But okarol, I don't want to fight.   

[okarol]

But okarol, I don't want to fight.   

LOL - don't fight, just get ready 

[fc2821]

Ok,

[paris]

     I believe there is a God.  I do not believe that God has a gender, nor do I believe that God has human emotions.  We have these and we try to understand God by attributing these human traits to God.  This is what I meant by the post about shining the light upon the wall.  God is far beyond the understanding of beings such as we are.
      Some of you  and I are different Christians.  In fact I am sure you might not think I am not one.  I believe in pacticing the teachings of Jesus in your everyday life.  You might too, I don't know.  I don't go to church, though.  Never found one that believed as I do. Being a Christan is more than just attending church regularly and reading the bible, to me. Most organized religion is bogged down in doctrine. 
      I also don't think it is correct to judge others, not saying anyone here has.  God gave us the ability to know what is right and what is wrong.  The choice is yours to do either. 
      Like some others I believe there is purpose to our existence whether we are able to recognize it nor not.  To me, one of the purposes of our existence is to interact with each other.  How you do this is your choice. 
       My God is my God.  My God is not better than anyone else's God, but to me.  Everyone must find God in their own way,  and must be willing to do so.   God exists if you let God exist in you.  If you don't want to, that is ok, you have this thing called free will.
        I know this isn't how some believe, and if you are offended by how I believe know  I did not tell you this to offend you or upset you. 
        And if I might quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

Good words fc!

[fc2821]

This: "In fact I am sure you might not think I am not one."   was suppose to read: "In fact I am sure you might not think I am one". 
   If I could type properly I'd be dangerous.

[dwcrawford]

great comments rob   fc

[MandaMe1986]

     I believe there is a God.  I do not believe that God has a gender, nor do I believe that God has human emotions.  We have these and we try to understand God by attributing these human traits to God.  This is what I meant by the post about shining the light upon the wall.  God is far beyond the understanding of beings such as we are.
      Some of you  and I are different Christians.  In fact I am sure you might not think I am not one.  I believe in pacticing the teachings of Jesus in your everyday life.  You might too, I don't know.  I don't go to church, though.  Never found one that believed as I do. Being a Christan is more than just attending church regularly and reading the bible, to me. Most organized religion is bogged down in doctrine. 
      I also don't think it is correct to judge others, not saying anyone here has.  God gave us the ability to know what is right and what is wrong.  The choice is yours to do either. 
      Like some others I believe there is purpose to our existence whether we are able to recognize it nor not.  To me, one of the purposes of our existence is to interact with each other.  How you do this is your choice. 
       My God is my God.  My God is not better than anyone else's God, but to me.  Everyone must find God in their own way,  and must be willing to do so.   God exists if you let God exist in you.  If you don't want to, that is ok, you have this thing called free will.
        I know this isn't how some believe, and if you are offended by how I believe know  I did not tell you this to offend you or upset you. 
        And if I might quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

I think u and I will get along just fine 

[Rerun]

fc2821 -  I wish that was the way it was, and if you are right then great.  But, where do you get your great information?  Is this just the way you "hope" things are?  Then I hope we all get what we believe.  Wouldn't that be wonderful.

[RichardMEL]

The topic title begins with "is there a GOD?" but if you read Epoman's very first post in this thread from way back when he opens the door for general debate about religion by discussing that very topic in his initial post. He also said "this should start things off"

I think it's way too literal to say this thread should ONLY be about the stated subject "Is there a GOD?" - clearly Epoman wanted to open up a general discussion about all the issues involved. And let's face it, when most everyone talks about God they are referring to some kind of religion or religious beliefs - I think it's fair game for discussion. It's not like the thread has been taken off topic and turned into a debate about basketball or ice cream. Religion and the concept of a God (or Gods to some) are very closely linked in my view.

Just my 2 cents - and heck I'm not even religious so I should probably keep my nose out - right?

[kitkatz]

Those of us who know
Are annoying those who think they now
And those who don't know at all.

Get it?

[paris]

I do believe you are right, RichardMel!      And Kitkatz, simply stated, but right on target!    I know what I know, I believe what I believe and think everyone is entitled to do the same.   

[willowtreewren]

Kitkatz, I think I got it, but I don't know that I got it. 

Richard, I think you and I have just as much to add to this conversation as those who are religious. Without voices from the dissenting side, the conversation would be pretty flat.

Hemodoc, I have carefully read through your posts using scripture to prove the existence of god because of prophecies that came true. Even if I accepted the Bible as a reliable source, I don't derive any compelling sense that the scriptures really do provide clear cut prophesies of the crucifixion.

I am trying to understand why these writings that are so open to interpretation are so convincing. I just don't get it.

You have stated more than once that posters have not answered your "proof" based on these prophesies, but for me, there just isn't anything in the Bible, or in what you have selected to post from it, that offers proof of the existence of god. There simply isn't anything for me to answer. And to make your proof less compelling, I don't consider the Bible a reliable source of "truth" anyway. It is an interesting collection of writings worth reading, though.

Sorry.

Aleta

[del]

Kitkatz, I think I get it too!!  I ditto what Richard, kitkatz and paris said. 

[dwcrawford]

Kit, if you don't got it get it.

[Jean]

The iGod Generation

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
— Genesis 1:1


The Bible never tries to prove the existence of God. It just starts with these words: "In the beginning God . . . (Genesis 1:1). The Bible assumes the obvious; it assumes that people know this is true. And I think it takes more faith to believe there is no God than it takes to believe there is one.

God exists, and He is the creator of the universe and of humankind. While militant atheists have done their best to undermine the faith of those who choose to believe the Bible, most polls would reveal that Americans, by and large, believe in God. And even those who claim to be atheists are probably agnostics at best.

Most people are willing to accept the premise of a god, but it seems today that we want a god in our own image. What we largely have today is not a generation that doesn't believe in God, necessarily, but a generation that believes in a god of their own making.

With technology that allows us to get the information we want when we want it, many people today seem to prefer an iGod, a god who is personalized and customized, a God who says and does what they want him to. They edit out the tracks they don't like and leave the ones they do. But that is not the way to know God. We don't mold God into our image; He wants to mold us into His.

In the beginning God—that is where it starts. The Bible doesn't tell us where God came from. It just tells us that God is. It simply says, "In the beginning God. . . . " God has always existed. He has no beginning, nor does He have an end. In the beginning . . . God.
This is from my Pastor

[rocker]

Kit, if you don't got it get it.

Dan...can I get some?   

[Stoday]

Dear Hemodoc, Thanks for taking the time to respond intelligently to my post.

Although (according to the Bible) both man and animals were created on the sixth day, there was order in the creation. I said that the contradiction was in the order but you haven’t addressed that issue.

The animals were created in Ge1:24 & 25 and man (both male and female versions of man) in Ge1:26 & 27.
However, in Ge2 God creates man (male) after which he says in Ge2:18 “It is not good that the man should live alone” after which He creates animals and finally woman.
My point is that the Bible was written by man; God would not make such a mistake. It follows that you could not expect the bible to confirm the existence of God.

As for God and Allah being the same, I have indeed discussed this with Muslims. I did so when I worked in Pakistan some ten years ago. It was very clear that to a man they all regarded Allah as the same God as worshiped by Christians. Indeed they recognized Jesus as a prophet, although not The Prophet of course.

There is no need for circumcision as a matter of hygiene unless the man is a dirty b*** who doesn't wash.

I shall not start a thread on Bible Prophecy because I just don’t care if it’s true or not. I believe it’s not, but I have no wish to impose my views on others. Nor am I suggesting that the crucifixion didn’t take place; it probably did, but it wasn’t the son of God who was crucified.

Kind regards,

Stoday

[Hemodoc]

Dear Stoday,

As I stated earlier, chapter two of Genesis is the story of the garden of Eden taking place on the 6th day of creation.  Let's take a look at the context of the so called second creation story alleged by many:

7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8: And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9: And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10: And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11: The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12: And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14: And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15: And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23: And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25: And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

This is once again, the story of the original condition of Adam in the garden of Eden and why God also created woman to be with Adam.  It does not in any sense talk about anything but the specific events and conditions of Adam in the garden of Eden.  I must confess that for someone to assert that we have two contradictory creation stories takes more imagination than my feeble old brain could muster.  It appears that you didn't accept my argument that there is no contradiction between the two chapters at all when you continue to imply that the order of the creation details must be evidence of contradictory creation stories.

Succinctly, God presented newly created beings from the earth for Adam to name in the garden of Eden and to find a companion from among them.  When he could find no companion of the animals created before his eyes, God then put Adam to sleep and then brought forth Eve from his rib.

So, despite so many alleging a contradictory story, perhaps looking closer at the true context of chapter two, the garden of Eden is the main object throughout this chapter.  The level of proof that God gave to Adam of His creation is the start of the proof that God has shown to man over and over and over again that there is a God and His name is Jehovah.  God has made no mistake, the mistake is instead on the part of those that allege two contradictory stories but fail to take a look at what chapter two is really talking about.  There is none since chapter two takes place on day six and it is not the story of creation, but instead the story of Adam in the garden of Eden and the story of God giving direct witness to Adam of His creative powers.

[Hemodoc]

As for God and Allah being the same, I have indeed discussed this with Muslims. I did so when I worked in Pakistan some ten years ago. It was very clear that to a man they all regarded Allah as the same God as worshiped by Christians. Indeed they recognized Jesus as a prophet, although not The Prophet of course.

As far as the Jehovah vs Allah issue, it is not surprising that they believe it is the same God, but perhaps you are not asking the right question.  Ask them if the it is the same God, whether first of all their God has a son.  You will find that Allah has no son, so Allah can absolutely not be the same God of the Christians who teach that Jesus is not only God, but the Son of God.  Take a look at the Koran yourself for all of the references that deny the trinity, Allah is one God, not three according to the Koran:

"The Women

[4.171] O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector."

So,  it is impossible that the God of the Christians and the God of Islam are the same not by my opinion but by the Koran itself.  Allah, has no Son, and Allah is not the triune God of the Bible.