just don't run over my foot in that damned thing....
Quote from: hyperlite on June 10, 2006, 12:12:26 PMhahahaha Catholics ARE Christians. A Christian is anyone that believes in Jesus Christ. Catholics are a type of Christian. Just like Protestants, and Orthodox Christians, and Evangelists...etc. Some of these "terms" can be broken down further too. Like Protestants can be broken down into Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Calvanists...etcEpoman: Nobody is saying that we evolved from apes. That is a hugely common misconception. We did however evolve from a similar ancestor, that does not exist anymore. Evolution usually occurs through the splitting of species. So a common ancestor (probably way way way before humans and monkeys or gorillas or whatever) would have been divided somehow, whether it be geographically or through a disease or one of another million possibilities. This separation would have caused this common ancestor to diverge genetically. Now it doesn't work like "the trees were tall, so their babies were born taller"...its actually that due to random mutations, the babies that were born taller were able to survive and carry on their genes... so the same would have happened. Maybe in one part of the world, the smarter "ape-like creatures" survived, whereas in the other part, the more limber, and stronger ape-like creatures survived...and you have to remember this happened over millions of years. We've seen so much evolution over the past couple of hundred years, that this is not that much of a surprise. Look at how tall people are now. Look at skin colours. Look at the ability of humans to learn...Evolution is a proven fact, through examining genetic codes, and the genomes of animals. Take the influenza virus for example. It evolves every year...Now I don't know if God exists or not. I think thats the point. We're not supposed to know for sure, we have to have faith. That's why the notion of God is still around, and always will be. If you believe, then hes there. If you don't believe and need proof, then you'll never get it, because you shouldn't need proof to know that he's there. It's the perfect way to make people believe. I also think that the reason humans need a God, is because it is part of our genetics. That's why everywhere in the world, each society has some sort of God or religion. It's a survival tool. The holes we can't explain, God fills those in for us. It's part of our cognitive behaviour to need a God. It hurts to try and think that out of nothingness, something was created randomly. Or even there never was nothingness, and there has always been something there. Or things like infinite. To think that the universe goes on forever. Mind boggling. But that's because I'm using a human brain to try and grasp these ideas. My brain isn't "hard-wired" to do so. I like the idea of a God starting everything, because it's simple, and it explains everything.And if I'm going to burn in Hell for thinking this way, well then so be it. I don't believe in a Hell, so I'm not really scared. I think that when I die, theres going to be nothingness. Just like when I go to sleep and can't remember my dreams from the night before. It's as if that time between when I was awake, went to sleep, and then woke up again, never really happened. Or if I drink too much and can't remember what happened the night before ( ) there's a void...a nothingness. Is that depressing? no because I have tomorrow to look forward to. I don't need an eternal afterlife. All I need is to make the most of the time I've got here on Earth. And as for religion, I like the idea of a church, because it is somewhere I can go, the people are nice, the message is relatively uplifting, and the morals are good. Its a good setting to raise a family, and live an honest and fulfilling life. But that doesn't mean I buy it all. In the back of my head, I try to be a good person because of the whole "heaven and hell" thing, even though I don't really believe it. But what's the harm in that? Although, the main reason I dont break the law, is because I'm afraid of the judicial system, I still have a conscious...where does that come from? probably from my Christian up-bringing. So yeah, I'll take my kids to church...But I'll also teach them the wonders of science...And as for Jimmy Hoffa, he's probably living it up right now with Tupac, Elvis, and JFKWith the intelligence humans have and the power that our brain is capable of and the complexities of the human body, I don't see how anyone could think that we evolved. You said:Quote I think that when I die, theres going to be nothingness. Just like when I go to sleep and can't remember my dreams from the night before. It's as if that time between when I was awake, went to sleep, and then woke up again, never really happened. Or if I drink too much and can't remember what happened the night before ( ) there's a void...a nothingness. Is that depressing?Yes, I find it very depressing, when you have your first child you will understand, until then you will not, believe me your views on everything change when you become a parent. I would hate to have your beliefs and know that once I or my son dies, we will never see each other again. I like the fact that in my belief I know that even after our deaths my son and I will re-unite. With your beliefs you will NEVER know the secrets of the universe, you will not be able to ask questions that have pondered man since the the beginning of time and get factual answers. In my belief I will be able to get answers to all my questions.With your belief you have EVERYTHING to lose. If you are wrong you will go to hell, If you are right then you have lost nothing. But in my belief I have everything to gain, If I am correct I have a paradise to look forward to when I die, if I am wrong then I have lost NOTHING, I will simple cease to exist and be void. Think about it for a second. If there is a GOD (which obviously I believe there is) then by you not having faith, and believing in evolution then you are basically denouncing GOD and therefor forsaking him. Which will not allow you to enter the kingdom of heaven.
hahahaha Catholics ARE Christians. A Christian is anyone that believes in Jesus Christ. Catholics are a type of Christian. Just like Protestants, and Orthodox Christians, and Evangelists...etc. Some of these "terms" can be broken down further too. Like Protestants can be broken down into Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Calvanists...etcEpoman: Nobody is saying that we evolved from apes. That is a hugely common misconception. We did however evolve from a similar ancestor, that does not exist anymore. Evolution usually occurs through the splitting of species. So a common ancestor (probably way way way before humans and monkeys or gorillas or whatever) would have been divided somehow, whether it be geographically or through a disease or one of another million possibilities. This separation would have caused this common ancestor to diverge genetically. Now it doesn't work like "the trees were tall, so their babies were born taller"...its actually that due to random mutations, the babies that were born taller were able to survive and carry on their genes... so the same would have happened. Maybe in one part of the world, the smarter "ape-like creatures" survived, whereas in the other part, the more limber, and stronger ape-like creatures survived...and you have to remember this happened over millions of years. We've seen so much evolution over the past couple of hundred years, that this is not that much of a surprise. Look at how tall people are now. Look at skin colours. Look at the ability of humans to learn...Evolution is a proven fact, through examining genetic codes, and the genomes of animals. Take the influenza virus for example. It evolves every year...Now I don't know if God exists or not. I think thats the point. We're not supposed to know for sure, we have to have faith. That's why the notion of God is still around, and always will be. If you believe, then hes there. If you don't believe and need proof, then you'll never get it, because you shouldn't need proof to know that he's there. It's the perfect way to make people believe. I also think that the reason humans need a God, is because it is part of our genetics. That's why everywhere in the world, each society has some sort of God or religion. It's a survival tool. The holes we can't explain, God fills those in for us. It's part of our cognitive behaviour to need a God. It hurts to try and think that out of nothingness, something was created randomly. Or even there never was nothingness, and there has always been something there. Or things like infinite. To think that the universe goes on forever. Mind boggling. But that's because I'm using a human brain to try and grasp these ideas. My brain isn't "hard-wired" to do so. I like the idea of a God starting everything, because it's simple, and it explains everything.And if I'm going to burn in Hell for thinking this way, well then so be it. I don't believe in a Hell, so I'm not really scared. I think that when I die, theres going to be nothingness. Just like when I go to sleep and can't remember my dreams from the night before. It's as if that time between when I was awake, went to sleep, and then woke up again, never really happened. Or if I drink too much and can't remember what happened the night before ( ) there's a void...a nothingness. Is that depressing? no because I have tomorrow to look forward to. I don't need an eternal afterlife. All I need is to make the most of the time I've got here on Earth. And as for religion, I like the idea of a church, because it is somewhere I can go, the people are nice, the message is relatively uplifting, and the morals are good. Its a good setting to raise a family, and live an honest and fulfilling life. But that doesn't mean I buy it all. In the back of my head, I try to be a good person because of the whole "heaven and hell" thing, even though I don't really believe it. But what's the harm in that? Although, the main reason I dont break the law, is because I'm afraid of the judicial system, I still have a conscious...where does that come from? probably from my Christian up-bringing. So yeah, I'll take my kids to church...But I'll also teach them the wonders of science...And as for Jimmy Hoffa, he's probably living it up right now with Tupac, Elvis, and JFK
I think that when I die, theres going to be nothingness. Just like when I go to sleep and can't remember my dreams from the night before. It's as if that time between when I was awake, went to sleep, and then woke up again, never really happened. Or if I drink too much and can't remember what happened the night before ( ) there's a void...a nothingness. Is that depressing?
When I was in college in the ancient days of the 1980's, that is what was taught and that is what we believed. But not today, you can't say that evolution is based on randomness, it is just not politically correct. So, how do we go from a one celled organism, I will give that to you for the sake of argument even though the "science" of abiogenesis is really getting hammered the more we learn, and then develop all of our systems by random chance. Sir Fred Hoyle understood this quite well and voted against the prevailing beliefs due to too little time, too little matter, but I will give you the primordial soup cell and you get to go from there with natural selection. Many say that evolution is not a random process, but a little understanding of math would clear up that myth quickly. Natural selection acts up random mutations. When you look at this process, random mutations are the independent variable and natural selection is the dependent variable. In other words, no random mutations, no natural selection to select.So, how do we get these incredible systems and organs and creatures through a random process of random mutations? The creative force of the evolution theory is random mutations, not natural selection. So, how do we get from the soup to the stew so to speak? How do we know this?
Dan, did you read this Epoman post. So much for the proselytism admonition. I agree, I don't think you did not know Epoman. Neither did I but instead I have let his words speak again. Looks like some pretty good proselytism from Epoman himself. Would he be welcome on this thread anymore?
Thanks for the offer, but the Bible calls all of those that are saved as saints, I'll pass on the Vatican's version and go with the real McCoy.
Quote from: Hemodoc on January 12, 2010, 01:11:09 PM When I was in college in the ancient days of the 1980's, that is what was taught and that is what we believed. But not today, you can't say that evolution is based on randomness, it is just not politically correct. So, how do we go from a one celled organism, I will give that to you for the sake of argument even though the "science" of abiogenesis is really getting hammered the more we learn, and then develop all of our systems by random chance. Sir Fred Hoyle understood this quite well and voted against the prevailing beliefs due to too little time, too little matter, but I will give you the primordial soup cell and you get to go from there with natural selection. Many say that evolution is not a random process, but a little understanding of math would clear up that myth quickly. Natural selection acts up random mutations. When you look at this process, random mutations are the independent variable and natural selection is the dependent variable. In other words, no random mutations, no natural selection to select.So, how do we get these incredible systems and organs and creatures through a random process of random mutations? The creative force of the evolution theory is random mutations, not natural selection. So, how do we get from the soup to the stew so to speak? How do we know this?It sure is interesting how things change over time.... What we learned in School yesterday may be very different that what is believe today..... was it wrong back them ..... not really... or was it..... is it correct now?... will it change again? I hope so.... I am very excited to see corrections or at least changes.... It is quite possible that the bible maybe wrong too.... at least for todays thoughts.... maybe not... re thinking things is ok.... even if its the bible and even if its Science.... evolution is a pretty basic term and can get very technical ..... I too have read many things that once was taught to me and others about evolution and now it is question.....modified... That is a good thing.... we are alway getting a better understanding of things... it is very possible to have evolution and a God...... why not..... Is the bible the only evidence of God... I sure hope not.... I would like to have more evidence than just a book written many many years ago.... we keep finding new evidence which supports new ideas on evolution and other scientific concepts... why do we not have continue evidence that their is a God.... So Peter I welcome the information that you can give us that will support the idea of a God other than using the bible..... or other written documents from that time period..... Best of LuckKathy
Why not ask some members who did know Epoman? Stop trying to guess what he said and interpreting his words. There are many members who can tell you all about him, his wit, his anger, his passion, his loves. Go back to the orginal question. I love hearing other's views, but I think we need to respect what each believes and not spend so much energy trying to "prove" who is right and who is wrong. So back to the topic, Is there a God? I think some are leary of posting because they don't want to get into a huge debate or lecture. Seriously,Del!!!!!! You are not very good at keeping me in the corner! And you are a teacher!! I think I may be done now. (no promises!)
Peter, you see this from your own egotistical point of view. As I see it, you and Rerun and maybe another are making the other people unwelcome. I'm sure Epoman would be welcome as long as you say so. Please recal that I said I was guessing from the tone of his writing what he may have intended. You said you knew what he intended just as you know all the answer about everyone god.I am not welcome here and I will not return again. Believe me I'll live without your relitious advice or your fake hemo dialysis advice (much of which I did copy and talk to my Nephrologist about.)
So we have the answer....... Yes there is a God...... And God is where he needs to be.... in the minds of the believers..... I am happy now..... I bet epoman would have been happy too....as he was a believer.... the one thing that I can say is ... if it makes you a better person and a more happy person.... then believe...Peter I can see from your writings that you are very passionate about the subject and you have found great happiness living your life as a believer..... I admire you... and I envy you with your new founded happiness.... I too have found passion and happiness.... more so as I have became older..... but mine is not in God... Mine is in the better understanding of our world.... Science to me is my salvation.... thx for sharing..... kathy
QuoteThanks for the offer, but the Bible calls all of those that are saved as saints, I'll pass on the Vatican's version and go with the real McCoy.I really had to laugh when I read this!!! I live in a "Bible" belt area and know many so called saved or born again Christians. They are by no means saints!!! A lot of them have no problem gossiping, making fun of other people, fooling around with other people's spouses(as long as they don't get caught). Some of them have no problems stealing or taking money from the church or innocent people. We have a neighbour who is one of those so called born again Christians. Before that he spent time in prison for raping his daughter. Now he is a leader and Sunday School teacher in the church!! Takes more than professing to being saved or a born again Christian to be a saint I think!!! I found this on Wikipedia. Thought it would be interesting.Though there are many important differences of interpretation and opinion of the Bible on which Christianity is based, Christians share a set of beliefs that they hold as essential to their faith.[21]Religious Tolerance claims that: * Most liberal Christian denominations, secularists, and public opinion pollsters define "Christian" very broadly as any person or group who sincerely believes themselves to be Christian. Using this definition, Christians total about 75% of the North American adult population. * Many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants define "Christian" more narrowly to include only those persons who have been "born again" or have made a personal commitment to follow Jesus irrespective of their denomination. About 35% of the North American adult population identify themselves in this way. * Some Protestant Christian denominations, para-church groups, and individuals have assembled their own lists of cardinal Christian doctrines. Many would regard anyone who denies even one of their cardinal doctrines to be a non-Christian. Unfortunately, there is a wide diversity of opinion as to which historical Christian beliefs are cardinal doctrines. * Other denominations and sects regard their own members to be the only true Christians in the world. Some are quite small, numbering only a few thousand followers.[15]Now I'll go back to my corner!!Edited-Fixed quote error: paris, Moderator
Hemo you have insulted me many times and I've tried my best to be civil to you. Of course since you hold your self in such high regard you probably feel it is yours to be rude to me, to catholics, to jews, etc. You evern were insulting to me months ago before all this regarding a fistula and my greater than great nephrolists, surgeon, and interist stating that you knew better than all of them together. I knew of your ego since then. But this is ridiculous. How many people have your offended? Even those with Christian beliefs. I have a definition of a Christian. "one who trys to live in a Christ like manner". And I, my friend, am a pretty damn good and moral person. However, it is the sitution you put me in here that is certainly about to cause me to "let it go". You have no more idea what Epoman was thinking than do I. Did you even read Paris' comment? We are both speculating --
In ref to Del's discussion about born again Christians.... There is a whole church out here called the "hills song church' the pastor drives a porsche, lives in Bella Vista (or used to... it's one of those McMansion area's). They pass the donation plate around before God is even mentioned ONCE. you have to put you name and $$$$ on the envelope. They send missionaries to (wait for it).......JAPAN! (considering how dead against missionaries like them it's laughable... JAPAN???) They only target the upper middle to high socio economic bracket and do the 'speaking in tongues' bull. They sell cd's hold massive rock concerts. They are just a brand.
I Hate Dialysis Message Board
I Hate Dialysis Message Board
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