Welcome to America

[Bill Peckham]

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/145536-A-young-blonde-Icelandic-woman-s-recent-experience-visiting-the-US

During the last twenty-four hours I have probably experienced the greatest humiliation to which I have ever been subjected. During these last twenty-four hours I have been handcuffed and chained, denied the chance to sleep, been without food and drink and been confined to a place without anyone knowing my whereabouts, imprisoned. Now I am beginning to try to understand all this, rest and review the events which began as innocently as possible.

Wow who could have been such a threat that they required this treatment by US boarder enforcers? Why a thirty something blond girl from Iceland who overstayed her visa 12 years ago. This is crazy but this is now the country we live in - there are scores of similar examples of our new posture towards the world. We are truly a country that has lost its way.

It is just so sad. And really the only reason it can happen is because masses of people just don't really care.

[glitter]

I regret not reading it all carefully before I posted... she did do something illegal...I am not sure I agree with how harshly she was treated for that infraction, nor do I think all criminals are the same...But along with protecting this great big country- there will be mistakes...or human error at times....we may not be perfect.. I think its high-time they start enforcing the laws of the land- now I wish they would focus on all these illegals who already live here, start deporting these people who have not come in legally.  It isn't like you can"t come here legally, you can it just takes time and effort, and when you are supposed to leave- do so.

[Bill Peckham]

"In Brazil, they've instituted fingerprinting at the border -- but only for Americans, because the US fingerprints Brazilians who visit America. What goes around, comes around. When US border personnel treat foreigners badly, they create a climate in which American travellers meet similar treatment abroad." boingboing http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/16/icelandic-tourist-to.html

What goes around, comes around. I am afraid so.

[Meinuk]

ummm - I think that in fairness, we need to change inscription at the Statue of Liberty...  'cause these words just don't reflect what our country has become.  How things change...

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[BigSky]

Doesn't matter if she was a "thirty something blond girl from Iceland".

Are government officials suppose to make exceptions for those that do not "look" like terrorists?

There is most likely a protocol they follow no matter who the person happens to be and no matter what level the crime.

And no this didnt happen because the masses do not care.  It happened because she was a criminal and there most likely is protocol to treat all crimes the same.

From accounts she was the criminal in the matter, not a victim as she is trying to play it.

So any problems that occurred were something of her creation for committing her crime. 

[Bill Peckham]

It isn't that they can't do it - it is that they shouldn't do it. At some point self interest and common sense will return to our international posture but nothing will be able to undo the damage that has occurred and will continue to happen for the next 12 months.

I think it is jaw dropping that some kind of zero tolerance policy is being enforced on our boarder. It is not acting in the interest of the people. It is acting against the interest of the people. The state must act with restraint. If the state cannot act with restraint it should be dissolved and replaced by leadership who will simply fulfill their oath of office. All they have to do is defend the Constitution, their job isn't to protect us from Icelandic tourists. Marauding vikings would be a local police issue.

We don't need a Department of Homeland Security roughing up tourists, like some banana republic under despotic rule. I guess that is why I am voting democratic - I'm against torture and in favor of treating tourist like guests.

[Black]

I wish all who have overstayed their visas were jailed and sent home.  It's also not fair to make people wait for years to enter our country legally and ignore those who do so illegally.

[BigSky]

It isn't that they can't do it - it is that they shouldn't do it. At some point self interest and common sense will return to our international posture but nothing will be able to undo the damage that has occurred and will continue to happen for the next 12 months.

I think it is jaw dropping that some kind of zero tolerance policy is being enforced on our boarder. It is not acting in the interest of the people. It is acting against the interest of the people. The state must act with restraint. If the state cannot act with restraint it should be dissolved and replaced by leadership who will simply fulfill their oath of office. All they have to do is defend the Constitution, their job isn't to protect us from Icelandic tourists. Marauding vikings would be a local police issue.

We don't need a Department of Homeland Security roughing up tourists, like some banana republic under despotic rule. I guess that is why I am voting democratic - I'm against torture and in favor of treating tourist like guests.

First get your info straight.

She was a CRIMINAL first and foremost.

DHS did not rough up a tourist.  They detained and deported a criminal.  The very criminal who did not have the the basic decency to abide by the laws of the country she visited.  Criminals are criminals and are all treated the same until it is figured out just what is going on.  To do anything less is repugnant.

Its common courtesy to abide by the laws of a country you are visiting no matter how much you may not like those laws.  The very fact she did not clearly shows she has no respect for the US or its people.

DHS did nothing wrong in the case.  Its foolish to think that doing a background check on an international traveler is going to be instant.   Most of the time it takes 3 days to do a background check on someone buying a gun and that process is supposed to be instant check.  Did they force her to stay awake?  No.  BFD she didnt get to eat or drink at her whim.  That is what happens when people are a being processed.

[Bill Peckham]

396 DAYS 2 Hrs and we can start to rebuild.

[Katonsdad]

I just have to ask one questions ...Do you lock your  homes door at night ?    The United States has finally
started locking its doors .  Now everybody is upset because it is locked and they cant just walk in and wander
around . They need to knock and be let in .   The young woman gave no thought to her "crime" from years
before and rode into town drinking wine and partying.   
I also read the remarks of the people who read the article you posted and I do not recall one remark about the fact
she stayed illegally . All stated how horrible the US has become .   I feel we turned the first cheek , then the next 2 cheeks and
we got kicked in the butt.

[George Jung]

I just have to ask one questions ...Do you lock your  homes door at night ?   

Depends on where I live.  And in all reality, if someone is going to get in then they will get in, locking the door is for my sense of security.  I much rather prefer to not live in fear or feel like I have to close the windows and lock the doors.

I also read the remarks of the people who read the article you posted and I do not recall one remark about the fact
she stayed illegally . All stated how horrible the US has become .

You must not have read very far.  Both perspectives are represented, just the majority think that it is bullshit, which I have to say that I agree.  She was not any kind of immediate threat and the hand and leg restraints, along with the treatment in general, were out of line.

Criminals are criminals and are all treated the same until it is figured out just what is going on. To do anything less is repugnant.

Not true.  I had a warrant for my arrest due to missing a court date one time.  When the officer came to my door I was very cooperative.  He drove me downtown uncuffed, spoke with the magistrate for me, and drove me home afterwards.  In the sense of the word (criminal) you speak of I would surely fit the definition.  Was I treated in the same manner as every other criminal that same officer ever arrested.  Criminals are certainly not criminals under any circumstance, even when it is unsure about what exactly is going on.

[Katonsdad]

The beginning posts all were for this young woman ,,,and nothing about the crime . At that point I figured
they were all slanted that way and made my comments .....I will read completely next time .......

I personally lock my doors also , and I do not fear terrorists as I go about my day , but still something
needs to be done .  Where do we draw the line . I do not know .  I don;t believe the government we have
now knows either .   I cab bot believe the change (?) in 2009 will do it either .

At least this woman was sent home  after 24 hrs a short time for those folks who lost loved ones from the
terrorists who were also here on Student Visas .

Thank you for the lively debate subject.

[BigSky]

Depends on where I live.  And in all reality, if someone is going to get in then they will get in, locking the door is for my sense of security.  I much rather prefer to not live in fear or feel like I have to close the windows and lock the doors.

It doesnt mean one lives in fear because they lock their doors.  Its a deterrent to keep out criminals.

You must not have read very far.  Both perspectives are represented, just the majority think that it is bullshit, which I have to say that I agree.  She was not any kind of immediate threat and the hand and leg restraints, along with the treatment in general, were out of line.

You definitely have a warped sense of both perspectives being represented.

Well I read both articles and NO WHERE was the US government or those involved quoted or even shown to give their side of what occurred!  As such their perspective WAS NOT represented.  The very fact of the matter the whole article was one sided to that of the criminal who committed the illegal actions in the first place.

Not true.  I had a warrant for my arrest due to missing a court date one time.  When the officer came to my door I was very cooperative.  He drove me downtown uncuffed, spoke with the magistrate for me, and drove me home afterwards.  In the sense of the word (criminal) you speak of I would surely fit the definition.  Was I treated in the same manner as every other criminal that same officer ever arrested.  Criminals are certainly not criminals under any circumstance, even when it is unsure about what exactly is going on.

In your case.  Protocol differs from state to state and department to department and certainly at the level of the feds to local law enforcement.

Case in point a few decades ago a "harmless" looking guy was not treated in such a manner and he ended up taking the officers gun and killing him here.

[Black]

"In Brazil, they've instituted fingerprinting at the border -- but only for Americans, because the US fingerprints Brazilians who visit America. What goes around, comes around. When US border personnel treat foreigners badly, they create a climate in which American travelers meet similar treatment abroad." boingboing http://www.boingboing.net/2007/12/16/icelandic-tourist-to.html

What goes around, comes around. I am afraid so.

Badly?  Getting fingerprints is treating someone badly?  I had to be fingerprinted many years ago to get a liquor license.  I was arrested for for a crime I did not commit, being fingerprinted was the least of my worries at the time.  Being fingerprinted is not a "bad" experience.

Besides, being finger printed is a small inconvenience which may help keep criminals out of our country and will probably help in apprehension of those who commit crimes while here.  Coming to our country is a privilege; being fingerprinted is a small inconvenience they must go through to get that privilege.

If I traveled to a foreign country I would have no objection to being fingerprinted.  If something happened to me while there those fingerprints would be a way of identifying me.

In fact, I hope eventually all passports will come with the capability of electronically verifying identity using fingerprints - scan the fingerprints on the passport, scan the persons fingers, and check against a database.

[Bill Peckham]

And I thought it was hard to visit America on a tourist visa - try crossing the boarder as a legal immigrant.
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0751,thompson,78685,2.html/full

"Although he was never accused of committing a crime, Narinder Singh spent years locked up in an immigration detention cell, courtesy of the federal government. He was beaten by a fellow inmate, spent time in the hole, and lived in a pod with 40 other men, deprived of sunlight, his own reading material, or much more than an hour of recreation time a day. Serving no sentence, Singh never knew when or if he would get out. Almost every day of his confinement, he called his wife and friends in Astoria and asked how this could happen to him."

How could this happen? Good question.

[BigSky]

The lady should feel lucky that she was only held a day or so before being shipped home.


If anything she should have sat in jail for at least 90 days and had a hefty fine.  What she did was cause undo hassle on our system by her not having the decency to respect the laws of our country.

[Bill Peckham]

How dare she taunt us with her carefree world view. She must learn to fear us. Only the righteous shall behold the Christmas tree on Rockefeller Plaza.

[Bill Peckham]

The lady should feel lucky that she was only held a day or so before being shipped home.


If anything she should have sat in jail for at least 90 days and had a hefty fine.  What she did was cause undo hassle on our system by her not having the decency to respect the laws of our country.

The actual law is "if a person has a visitor's visa and overstays by 180 days, then leaves voluntarily, there is a three-year bar to coming back to the United States. If one overstays a whole year and then leaves voluntarily, there is a ten-year bar.

Persons who are out of status and wish to apply for permanent status cannot complete their cases without leaving, unless a petition or labor certification was (a) filed for them before January 14, 1998. (b) filed by April 30, 2001, if they were present in the U.S. on December 21, 2000. (There are certain exceptions, such as persons applying for green card based on marriage to a U.S. citizen.)"

So the fact that she overstayed her visa by three weeks, 12 years ago means that not only did she fall well within a courtesy period any possible penalty period lapsed 9 years ago. Your suggestion that the punishment should have been more severe for this harmless, victimless crime is a frightening window into your world view.

[oswald]

I wish all who have overstayed their visas were jailed and sent home.  It's also not fair to make people wait for years to enter our country legally and ignore those who do so illegally.

Agreed, 100%...this has nothing to do with hospitality!

[oswald]

I just have to ask one questions ...Do you lock your  homes door at night ?    The United States has finally
started locking its doors .  Now everybody is upset because it is locked and they cant just walk in and wander
around . They need to knock and be let in .   The young woman gave no thought to her "crime" from years
before and rode into town drinking wine and partying.  I also read the remarks of the people who read the article you posted and I do not recall one remark about the fact she stayed illegally . All stated how horrible the US has become .   I feel we turned the first cheek , then the next 2 cheeks and we got kicked in the butt.

Agreed!

[BigSky]

How dare she taunt us with her carefree world view. She must learn to fear us. Only the righteous shall behold the Christmas tree on Rockefeller Plaza.

I do believe that should be posted in the "most ignorant thing someone has said to you" thread.

Laws are laws,  and many countries around the world punish those that break laws on immigration, from jail time and fines to outright banning them from the country.  The fact that you think we should not be able to take measures to keep track of whom is here and take action against those that violate these laws is repugnant to say the least.

[Bill Peckham]

Here is the most recent policy statement from USinfo.state.gov http://tinyurl.com/2a6zwp

13 August 2004
No-Risk Visitors to Be Excused for Visa-Waiver Overstays

Detention, handcuffing inappropriate for minor violations, commissioner says

U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Commissioner Robert Bonner announced August 12 that CBP officers have new discretion to grant a one-time parole to no-risk travelers who have committed a minor violation in the past.

The new policy will end detention and handcuffing of visitors who overstayed on a prior visit under the Visa Waiver Program, according to a CBP press release. Bonner said that treatment was inappropriate for minor violations of the program.
[snip]

The official policy of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection recognizes that it is your suggestion for more severe handling of this harmless, victimless crime that is repugnant and unjustifiable.

The other thing that is repugnant is that a lawless no-mans-land exists at our boarder where people can be trapped between legal systems and are left to the mercy (or lack of mercy) of people who are acting outside their intended authority. As evidenced by the case of Mr. Singh some boarder guards are acting capriciously on personal hunches, feeding people into a hellish legal limbo. No one hired our boarder guards to be judge and jury but that is the role they've taken.

[BigSky]

The other thing that is repugnant is that a lawless no-mans-land exists at our boarder where people can be trapped between legal systems and are left to the mercy (or lack of mercy) of people who are acting outside their intended authority. As evidenced by the case of Mr. Singh some boarder guards are acting capriciously on personal hunches, feeding people into a hellish legal limbo. No one hired our boarder guards to be judge and jury but that is the role they've taken.

We do what is needed to take long forgotten action to protect ourselves.  If innocent people get caught up in that it is a small price to pay to avoid a major death scene.   If they do not like it, they need not come.  Not for us to bend over backwards to accommodate them.  They want to come here, they are the ones that have to accommodate our system.