[Fresenius 5008] Coming Soon to a Clinic Near You!

[Gus]

http://dailyhemo.org/1//index.php?option=com_ponygallery&Itemid=27&func=detail&id=32

The next BIG thing from Fresenius, the cadilac of all dialysis machines. Featuring Online Hemodiafiltration which reduces the risk of cardiovascular complications, the cause of more than 50% of the deaths of dialysis patients. Other noteworthy features include the ability to use less resources to operate which means that it may be very suitable for Home use. What's even more interesting about it is the flat panel colorful computer display that works by touching the screen. This machine is not yet available in the U.S.A...

[Panda_9]

That makes my machine look ancient 

[Hawkeye]

http://dailyhemo.org/1//index.php?option=com_ponygallery&Itemid=27&func=detail&id=32
This machine is not yet available in the U.S.A...

Unfortunately Europe is about 3 generations of dialysis machines ahead of the U.S.  The 5008 technology that Fresenius (A German Based Company) is now using is very futuristic looking and has lots of bells and whistles that the 2008 models don't have.  Plus the patient outcomes are supposed to be a lot better.  The reason we aren't right in line with them is that among other reasons the FDA has to approve the dialysis machines before they can be put into use.  Check out these articles from AAMI (Association for the Advancement of Medical Instrumentation) for more details.  The second article shows the 5008 and a few other new machine on the European market.

http://www.aami.org/publications/HH/ESRD.Leypoldt.pdf

http://www.aami.org/publications/HH/Status.Hoenich.pdf

[Bear]

Here in Oz, we are using 4008 series (us 'homies' have 4008Bs; the unit has a 4008S for diagnostics)
Do you not have 4008 series there?

[Hawkeye]

Do you not have 4008 series there?

The best Fresenius machine you can get in the states is the 2008K with all the bells and whistles.  Thats what the Fresenius clinics get, other clinics that purchase Fresenius machines may not get all the optional features it depends on what they want to spend.  Trust me when I say these machines are NOT cheap.

[Rerun]

I'm sure the machines are NOT cheap, but CD's are not cheap and come to find out they cost pennys to make.  I bet the machine which is no more complicated than a pump in an fish tank (with a few additions) doesn't really cost that much.

What does a clinic pay for one?

[Panda_9]

Has anyone ever seen inside a dialysis machine? It doesnt exactly look simple!! 

[Hawkeye]

I'm sure the machines are NOT cheap, but CD's are not cheap and come to find out they cost pennys to make.  I bet the machine which is no more complicated than a pump in an fish tank (with a few additions) doesn't really cost that much.

What does a clinic pay for one?

I don't have access to the price guide that list the total machine pricing, but I can give you an example of a few of the parts individual prices.

List price for a 2008K...
Heparin Pump = $1,300.20
Front Panel minus touch screen =$ 820.73
Adult BP Cuff = $53.60
Blood Pump = $2,600.00

These are just a few of the hundreds of parts in the machine.  Add it all together and you could probably by 3 2007 luxury cars for the same price.

[Hawkeye]

Has anyone ever seen inside a dialysis machine? It doesn't exactly look simple!! 

There is a lot going on inside one of these machine, but in all reality they are fairly simple.

[angieskidney]

I remember when I was on PD nocturnal cycler and my unit told me how expensive THAT was. I am sure the hemo machines are more expensive than that and it was quite a few grand! Like buying a new car infact

[Panda_9]

I was on a new trial PD cycler and now I wish I had of asked how much it was worth. It was more fancy than the Baxter homechoice (which i hate with a passion!).
Apparently it costs $60,000 a year for a general Dx patient, and $100,000 a year for a Dx patient who experiences alot of problems. I think that was for PD. I asked the hemo nurses and apparently in-centre HD costs about $50,000 a year, and home HD (not incl. nocturnal) costs a bit less than that. There is a higher initial cost for home HD, but after that the cost goes down, and hopefully there are less complications and hospital admissions. The Gambro AK95 machines I think someone said they were worth around $12,000.

[angieskidney]

I was on a new trial PD cycler and now I wish I had of asked how much it was worth. It was more fancy than the Baxter homechoice (which i hate with a passion!).

really?? I heard my unit has switched from Fresenius to Baxter now with PD ...

Oh I finally looked at what my hemo machine is .. it is the Fresenius 2008 (does that sound right?)

[Panda_9]

I personally didnt cope with the baxter PD because the machine doesnt give a steady flow of fill or drain, so I was in agony the entire time I was on it. I was on a gambro cycler and it has a steady flow, no pain at all, and it was very good at determining when the drain needed to be stopped. It was a real pain if I had to go into hospital, which was often at the time, as I had to drag my cycler in and all the fluid and crap, because they wouldnt let me do manual bags.

[angieskidney]

I personally didnt cope with the baxter PD because the machine doesnt give a steady flow of fill or drain, so I was in agony the entire time I was on it. I was on a gambro cycler and it has a steady flow, no pain at all, and it was very good at determining when the drain needed to be stopped. It was a real pain if I had to go into hospital, which was often at the time, as I had to drag my cycler in and all the fluid and crap, because they wouldnt let me do manual bags.

When I was on the Fresenius IQ machine I had no problems.

[kitkatz]

IQ Machine??? Did it help any??? 

[angieskidney]

IQ Machine??? Did it help any??? 

IQ was just like the older model except with a computer ID's card that you put in like a diskette for the computer. It looked like an oversized camera card.

[kitkatz]

Hellooooo! I was being funny, or trying to. Can't help but be a smart ass late at night!