Field of Vision - A Night at the Garden

[Bill Peckham]

https://youtu.be/MxxxlutsKuI

The link above is to a seven minute video of a rally that took place in 1939 at Madison Square Garden, NYNY. It's just seven minutes long, there is no commentary and just a bit of informational text over raw footage. All Americans should watch this video and think hard about what it tells us about ourselves. Know thyself my fellow citizens.

What would have been the outcome of the 1940 election if Germany had twitter bots and today's other media tools?

I spent 3 hours at the Churchill War Museum on Saturday, we queued for an hour and half in cold rain to see it and it was 100% worth the wait. It is very sobering to see just how touch and go it all was without even considering the idea of the United States standing down.

This video is a reminder that reciting the words is not enough, reciting certain words doesn't make one an American patriot. Understanding the American promise takes more than chants, giant banners of George Washington and rows of American flags.

FDR was an American Patriot. FDR stood with England against the deplorables in Germany and their sympathisers. FDR understood the American promise, as did Churchill.

The passions in the Madison Square Garden in 1939 are in all of us. Loyalty to the tribe is in our DNA. It is only through sober thought and self restraint that we can live as a nation, and in peace as nations.

It is entirely possible we were not meant to be a continental let alone a global species but here we are. We can do better.

[MooseMom]

I got through only about 4 minutes of this footage before I couldn't stand it anymore.  I'm going to venture out into the snow, into the bright sunlight of this day, to exercise my right of freedom of movement via showshoes, so that I can fortify myself to watch the rest of this.  In saying that, though, I don't know if I will be able to after all.  It strikes a certain chord of unease, nay, fear, with which I've been struggling since January 2017.

When you were in London and were touring sites like the Cabinet War Rooms (wasn't the Map Room scary?), did you ever get the sense that the Brits never forgave the US for entering the war so late?  About 15 years ago, the England international team played an American All Star team in a friendly here in Chicago's Soldier Stadium.  It felt like being back in England because many British ex-pats attended, and while we were in our car approaching the stadium, I could hear Americans yelling how we had "saved the Brits again", while the Brits were yelling things like, "Well, mate, where were you in 1940?"  And these were all YOUNG men yelling at each other over participation in a conflict during which they weren't even alive.

Yes, we Can do better.  We HAVE done better.  Loyalty to the tribe may be in our DNA, but in many of us, our DNA tells us to think outwardly, to be intellectually curious, to be eager to explore the differences in others, to be happy to value those differences and to take them and make them our own.

I still have a modicum of faith.

Off into the snow I go.

[kristina]

https://youtu.be/MxxxlutsKuI



What would have been the outcome of the 1940 election if Germany had twitter bots and today's other media tools?

The political trouble with Italy, Germany and Spain at that particular time was, that dictators in each of these countries could take great advantage of a newly invented media-tool, i.e. newsreels at cinemas etc. with well constructed "news" which were further "reinforced" by "well selected" newspaper"news" and "well selected" radio"news" etc.
I must point out here that at that time practically everyone went to the cinema and became eventually influenced and indoctrinated...
These selected  and often invented "news" at that time were extremely confusing for citizens and that was one of the reasons why these new tools  "worked so well" for dictators ... and as a result the outcome became very regrettable and extremely tragic for each of these countries.
You see, from the newsreels of that particular time unto the invention of the internet etc. people have meanwhile grown up a lot and have also learned to participate in politics if they so wish and/or to see through certain political angles etc. ...
... We can see in the film you have so kindly provided, that America was unfortunately also in severe danger to "get under the spell" of the above mentioned...
But fortunately we can see one true American who tried very hard to make a stand against this madness and I salute him and I do hope he survived....

[Charlie B53]

A speech such as that made today with a little editing, leaving out the hate for any specific Ethnic group, could be accepted by many many people.

Our Government was intended to represent the People.  But what we have is a Class of Ruling Elite that serve themselves and those Businesses that pay them, either in kickbacks, vacations, or 'Campaign contributions'.

We, the People, are getting screwed, taxes imposed to finance everything those Ruling Elite desire.

I have often said to vote AGAINST everyone up for reelection.  Very quickly Congress and the Senate will begin to understand to stop lining their pockets at our expense.

I was in Berlin long before the Wall came down.  I saw the radical differences between the East and Western sides of the City.   Stark.    No place should ever be like that again.

[kristina]

I was in Berlin long before the Wall came down.  I saw the radical differences between the East and Western sides of the City.   Stark.    No place should ever be like that again.

Hello Charlie, I was there as well and the difference between East-Berlin and West-Berlin was indeed quite radical! Even the spoken language was different! The Eastern language came straight out of Marx's "Capital" ...  contrary to the poetical language spoken in the West. I agree with you no place or country should ever be like that again...

[kickingandscreaming]

Buckle up. We're well on the way.

[Paul]

did you ever get the sense that the Brits never forgave the US for entering the war so late?

Speaking as a Brit: We forgave you long ago, but we will never stop teasing you about it. But be fair, some Americans still call us Limies, and that refers to a practice we stopped well over two hundred years ago, so something that happened as recently as WW2 has a good few decades to go to catch up!

However, when Americans get as ego headed as saying things like "saved the Brits again" expect the joshing to get a little more heated. No one (outside the US) likes an arrogant American!

[lulu836]

So when can we expect repayment for assistance in WWII?  Hmmmmmmmmm.....?

[Charlie B53]

Actually Paul since you brought it up, No, I do not know the origination of the term  "Limey".  Without Googling it.  But I would much rather hear it from someone that knows far more about that subject than I do.

I would have imagined it to have something to do with squeezing a spot of lemon into a nice cuppa tea.  But I could easily be wrong.

What do I know, I'm just another dumb American.  Not even one 'City' refined at that!  I grew up in the orchards picking Apples and hunting Deer and Elk.

[MooseMom]

So when can we expect repayment for assistance in WWII?  Hmmmmmmmmm.....?

Final payment was made on the last business day of 2006.

[MooseMom]

did you ever get the sense that the Brits never forgave the US for entering the war so late?

Speaking as a Brit: We forgave you long ago, but we will never stop teasing you about it. But be fair, some Americans still call us Limies, and that refers to a practice we stopped well over two hundred years ago, so something that happened as recently as WW2 has a good few decades to go to catch up!

However, when Americans get as ego headed as saying things like "saved the Brits again" expect the joshing to get a little more heated. No one (outside the US) likes an arrogant American!

I have always thought that "limey" came from the British practice of putting lime juice into gin and tonic during the days of the Raj.

And no, no one likes arrogant Americans, just as no one likes Germans who put their beach towels on poolside chairs overnight to save them!  And the stereotypes live on!   

[Paul]

Actually Paul since you brought it up, No, I do not know the origination of the term  "Limey".  Without Googling it.  But I would much rather hear it from someone that knows far more about that subject than I do.

British sailors used to take limes aboard their ships to suck, to prevent scurvy (caused by the lack of vitamin C in ships rations). The only English people most Americans saw were sailors (either in trade or during the war of independence), so they thought of English as "Lime Eaters", which became "Limey".

Moose Mom - Your theory is interesting, but the expression was coined by Americans, and back in the day (we are talking about late eighteenth  to early nineteenth centuries) it is unlikely that people in America would know about British drinking habits in India.

So when can we expect repayment for assistance in WWII?  Hmmmmmmmmm.....?

We paid you back in installments over the years. As MooseMom pointed out, the final payment was made over ten years ago. You got it all back. You want more? Bloody greedy Americans.

[Simon Dog]

So when can we expect repayment for assistance in WWII?  Hmmmmmmmmm.....?

I'm still waiting for the US to take war reparations from Iraq.   25% of their oil revenue would seem appropriate.

[Paul]

I'm still waiting for the US to take war reparations from Iraq.

Hey, since we went into Iraq to help you lot out, perhaps we should be asking for reparations from the US!

[Simon Dog]

I'm still waiting for the US to take war reparations from Iraq.

Hey, since we went into Iraq to help you lot out, perhaps we should be asking for reparations from the US!

It would be reasonable for the US to split reparations we should be taking from Iraq with the other coalition nations, in proportion to funds spent.

[kristina]

I'm still waiting for the US to take war reparations from Iraq.

Hey, since we went into Iraq to help you lot out, perhaps we should be asking for reparations from the US!

Hear! Hear!

[Paul]

It would be reasonable for the US to split reparations we should be taking from Iraq with the other coalition nations, in proportion to funds spent.

Well yes, but it don't look like Iraq will pay up, so I'm talking about a payment from US funds to Uncle Sam's allies. Or failing that, preferential trade deals.

[Simon Dog]

It would be reasonable for the US to split reparations we should be taking from Iraq with the other coalition nations, in proportion to funds spent.

Well yes, but it don't look like Iraq will pay up, so I'm talking about a payment from US funds to Uncle Sam's allies. Or failing that, preferential trade deals.

It's out fault Iraq did not pay up.  First, we did not bill Iraq.  Second, when you win a war you are in charge, and the operative words are make, force or compel - not ask.

[Paul]

My last two posts were made in jest. However re-reading the last one it just struck me that a request for preferential trade arrangements in return for helping you out in Iraq is actually a reasonable suggestion.

[kristina]

My last two posts were made in jest. However re-reading the last one it just struck me that a request for preferential trade arrangements in return for helping you out in Iraq is actually a reasonable suggestion.

Hear! Hear!

[MooseMom]

Actually Paul since you brought it up, No, I do not know the origination of the term  "Limey".  Without Googling it.  But I would much rather hear it from someone that knows far more about that subject than I do.

British sailors used to take limes aboard their ships to suck, to prevent scurvy (caused by the lack of vitamin C in ships rations). The only English people most Americans saw were sailors (either in trade or during the war of independence), so they thought of English as "Lime Eaters", which became "Limey".

Moose Mom - Your theory is interesting, but the expression was coined by Americans, and back in the day (we are talking about late eighteenth  to early nineteenth centuries) it is unlikely that people in America would know about British drinking habits in India.

Paul, yes, you're right.  That's the story I've always heard, too  (English sailors sucking on limes to prevent scurvy).  There's some interesting historical tidbit about some British culinary habit that arose from the days of their presence in India during the Raj, but for the life of me, I can't remember the particulars.  Maybe it was that they started putting quinine in their tonic with the gin to prevent/treat malaria?  Something like that.  I've obviously confused the two tales.  If anyone can enlighten me about the gin and tonic, I'd be most pleased!  Thanks!

[kristina]

Actually Paul since you brought it up, No, I do not know the origination of the term  "Limey".  Without Googling it.  But I would much rather hear it from someone that knows far more about that subject than I do.

British sailors used to take limes aboard their ships to suck, to prevent scurvy (caused by the lack of vitamin C in ships rations). The only English people most Americans saw were sailors (either in trade or during the war of independence), so they thought of English as "Lime Eaters", which became "Limey".

Moose Mom - Your theory is interesting, but the expression was coined by Americans, and back in the day (we are talking about late eighteenth  to early nineteenth centuries) it is unlikely that people in America would know about British drinking habits in India.

Paul, yes, you're right.  That's the story I've always heard, too  (English sailors sucking on limes to prevent scurvy).  There's some interesting historical tidbit about some British culinary habit that arose from the days of their presence in India during the Raj, but for the life of me, I can't remember the particulars.  Maybe it was that they started putting quinine in their tonic with the gin to prevent/treat malaria?  Something like that.  I've obviously confused the two tales.  If anyone can enlighten me about the gin and tonic, I'd be most pleased!  Thanks!

Hello MooseMom,
I would like to mention lime-juice, because I have been drinking the juice of half a lime mixed with water every day for many years. Years ago my Internet research found, that fresh lime-juice inspires the kidneys to function just that little longer. This together with a daily portion of 3-4 cooked asparagus (a natural diuretic) has inspired my "two little fighters" to remain in working condition despite being on dialysis for over three years. When I was put on dialysis my kidneys functioned only 4-5% and it is really amazing, that they are still "with me" after all these years.
Best wishes from Kristina.