Harvey Weinstein

[Rerun]

Karen, I don't agree... again~  Go figure...

I think it does matter how we dress.  If your skirt is up to your ass and your blouse is down to your navel....  ??  Really?

Is the lady looking for a little action?  Hmmmm 

I also think sex is WAY over rated and MEN think we ALL love it.  We don't.  Look at all the erection commercials.  The woman gives him the "look" and he just knows she is in the mood.  BS

 

[Jean]

 When I see a young woman, most notably my niece, with a blouse on that is cut right to her belly button, I so want to tell her what she looks like, but family relations being what they are, I keep my mouth shut, even tho she really (IMHO)  does look like she is going shopping. For a sugar daddy or a quickie. Women dont have to wear sweatshirts up to their ear lobes to be modest but they also dont have to reveal all to attract a man.

[KarenInWA]

Karen, I don't agree... again~  Go figure...

I think it does matter how we dress.  If your skirt is up to your ass and your blouse is down to your navel....  ??  Really?

Is the lady looking for a little action?  Hmmmm 

I also think sex is WAY over rated and MEN think we ALL love it.  We don't.  Look at all the erection commercials.  The woman gives him the "look" and he just knows she is in the mood.  BS

 

Rerun, Kristina's post didn't say anything about short skirts or low cut blouses. I personally have never worn either because 1. My legs are terribly ugly and the only article of cloth they are compatible with is a hospital gown. No joke. My chest was always too small for most any man's taste, so I never had to worry about that being targeted, except in ridicule, which is also an unnecessary experience. I do wear clothes that fit, however, because why wouldn't I? Kristina was more or less "bragging" about wearing clothes that were 3 or 4 sizes too big. Honestly, how can anyone move around with clothes big enough to fall off of one's body, and exactly how is that "being strong"?? Most of us like to look nice and presentable when going about this thing called life, and I am not about to let the weaker sex bully me into looking like some homeless person who got to the clothes bin too late and only had the bigger clothes left over to choose from. Sorry, nope!

KarenInWA

[kristina]

Is there any woman on this forum who has NOT EVER been groped or felt up?

I must have been extremely lucky, because I never ever had such an experience...
... Until I met my husband I lived alone ... and ...  whilst I lived alone, I always dressed in blue Jeans which were three to four sizes too big for my size and my Pullovers were always a complete over-size, even so I have always been a very small size "underneath" these oversize clothes  ...
... Adding to that, whenever I travelled, I always "sported" a very visible "engagement-ring", which I had purchased ages ago in a Charity Shop especially for "travelling-purposes".
I also told anyone who asked, that I specialized in Philosophy and European Literature, and that might have also inspired some to run a mile  ...
So, on one hand I feel I was extremely lucky, on the other hand I certainly gave out clear signals with my over-sized clothes and "engagement-ring"  ... and ...  perhaps, I might have gone a bit into "overdrive" with all these clear signals, it certainly "did the trick" and worked in my favour...
Best wishes from Kristina.

I'm sorry kristina, but it sounds like you're blaming women for wearing clothes that actually fit. So what you seem to be saying (at least to me) is that if a woman chooses to buy and wear clothes that actually fit her body, she is "asking for it". Are you serious??? I'd rather not wear clothes that are way too big for my body, that will not only look gross, but impede me from moving and getting around like a normal person. Not only that, but talk about a way to look like one is severely depressed! No thank you! And when are some people going to get the clue that it has nothing to do with how you dress or even how you look - it is a power thing??? Seriously???

KarenInWA

Sorry Karen,  I would not blame women for wearing clothes that actually fit...
I was only speaking for myself and how I went about my life as a single female student living alone. Because of my chronic kidney disease my plan to study at University was much harder for me than it would have been for anyone else and as I had made up my mind to study, despite my medical frailty there was no time for anything else at that particular time. When I mentioned that my clothes at the time were many sizes too big, that does not mean that I did not present myself properly, i.e. wearing an over-sized Pullover can still look elegant if you wear it with a nice fitting belt etc.... but at the same time it does give clear signals that “you” are not looking for a companionship right now and “you” do not wish to be disturbed either... I feel very fortunate, that my signals at the time came over exactly as I wanted them to be understood...

[willowtreewren]

I think the point about women's choice of wearing attractive clothing side steps the issue.

It puts all the responsibility on WOMEN for the behavior of men. I am definitely not trying to say that all men are sexual predators. They aren't. But even if a woman does wear revealing clothing, she should not be faulted for "getting what's coming to her." That removes the responsibility from the men for their inappropriate behavior. No matter what a woman is wearing, no means NO! Women should not have to constantly worry about whether her clothes are too tight, too loose, too low, too short, too colorful, or even too colorful. No man gets up in the morning worrying about whether his clothing is going to be a factor in whether he will be the target of sexual harassment. Men don't have to worry about going out for a run alone, or making eye contact with strangers in public, or how they sit in public, or whether their shirts are buttoned all the way up. Having an extra button un-done is not considered an invitation for sexual aggression. (He had it coming to him).

Our culture is all into blaming women for assault on them. Even reporting of assault leaves the men out of the picture. The terminology is "women are raped" not "men rape women." Using the passive voice makes it possible to remove the perpetrators from the discussion.

Unfortunately we live in a rape culture. And we blame the victims and go easy on the perpetrators. There is no wonder that women are reluctant to even report sexual assault. AND THEY ARE NOT THE ONES AT FAULT!

Let's stop making excuses that let men (or any sexual predators) off the hook. Let's change the dialog.

I am sickened and distressed by the prevalence of #metoo on Facebook. It took me from feeling like "just me" to realizing we have a huge problem on our hands and I am one in a huge majority of women.

Aleta

[MooseMom]

The direction this conversation has turned (ie, blaming women for the way they dress) makes me wonder if some of you think we should all be dressing like Saudi women are forced to dress.  Supposedly it is to keep them safe from predatory men, which tells you something about men.  Why don't they just lock the men away?  Why do women always bear the brunt of men's apparently voracious sexual appetites?

Story number three.  I was in Ibiza at a club with a bunch of friends.  There were people there from all over the world dancing and having a good time.  I do not drink other than having an occasional glass of wine with a meal.  When I was younger, I NEVER drank alcohol if I was out at a club.  So, we were all out dancing with no one in particular and with everyone in general, and there were a couple of Japanese guys dancing in front of me, which was nice because I'd never had the chance to socialize with anyone from Japan.  I smiled to be friendly, and the next thing I knew, he was pawing at me.  Apparently a woman mustn't smile, either because if you smile or if you look a little more attractive than a potato, you're a walking, talking target.

[MooseMom]

When I see a young woman, most notably my niece, with a blouse on that is cut right to her belly button, I so want to tell her what she looks like, but family relations being what they are, I keep my mouth shut, even tho she really (IMHO)  does look like she is going shopping. For a sugar daddy or a quickie. Women dont have to wear sweatshirts up to their ear lobes to be modest but they also dont have to reveal all to attract a man.

This is off topic.  We are talking about women who are targeted by men who have power over their lives and about the frequency of unwanted sexual attention as we women just go about our daily lives.

How old is your niece?  Is she a young adult who is employed and so is in the company of men at work?  If so, has she ever experienced harassment at her place of employment?

[Simon Dog]

Blaming women for the way they dress is like blaming the driver of a BMW or an Escalade for driving a nice car and attracting carjackers.

[Rerun]

MM - What Jean posted is not off topic.  If you would like to be a moderator then contact Kitkatz and take the training.

SD - Not blaming women for the way they dress, but why not run around naked?  If you wear a steak dress with bacon socks you will attract Dogs. 

What makes me mad is when there are women accusers and then they later say they were lying.  Those women make the real victims not want to come forward because there is always doubt.


This female teacher that was accused of having sex with a 16 year old boy and was acquitted....  the boy admitted he was lying. 

So I guess it happens on both sides.  Sad.  I would hope she would have her job offered again but How could she work there  Poor lady. 

With all the gender mixups now there has to be woman raping women and men raping men (well maybe not)....  immorality will be the demise .....

[MooseMom]

Which women in your world run around naked?  If there were women who "nakedly" approached Weinstein and stated that they'd sleep with him if he would them a job, that's a different issue.  But that's not what got Weinstein off his pedestal.

Sure, it is unfair and illegal for a woman, or anyone, to make a false claim.  But the few women who lie are NOT the reason that Weinstein's victims did not speak out sooner.  And interestingly, no one is doubting them.  Everyone knows the allegations are true.

No, rerun, it doesn't happen on "both sides".  A pervasive culture of powerful professional women who systematically sexually harass men with the promise of future employment or better job situations does not exist.

What is it about older conservative women who are so quick to blame other women for being sexually harassed?  What IS that?  Are these the same women who voted for Trump?  Just wondering because I see a bit of a pattern here.

And I agree with wtw, by the way.  Thanks for your post!

[Jean]

 Oh, I agree with Aleta also in so far as women being blamed for being raped because of the way they dressed.Hardly fair. The point, I think is that men no doubt have a stronger sex drive than most women.
Please notice I said MOST women. Men are usually bigger and stronger than women, notice Usually, not always. Harvey is another whole ball of wax. He is just a piggy with power. You cant blame all men for thing that Harvey does.
BTW, no one asked or inferred that Trump was a saint when he was campaigning and it's a good thing, because then all of the other nominees would have to fess up, including Hillary. It works both ways and yes, I have seen women of power in the corporate world bully men and make their lives hell on earth, but not because the women were raped, but because the men refused to touch them. It does, sometimes, work both ways.

[kristina]

 If you wear a steak dress with bacon socks you will attract Dogs. 

 

Hear ! Hear!

[MooseMom]

It works both ways and yes, I have seen women of power in the corporate world bully men and make their lives hell on earth, but not because the women were raped, but because the men refused to touch them. It does, sometimes, work both ways.

I'm not inclined to believe this, but I do want to keep an open mind.  Can you give some details about what you actually saw?  Thank you.

[Jean]

In my early days, I saw woman who " went out for a drink" with the branch manager and did not come back until the next day, AND the same thing with Men who were on the training program and also never came back the same day.And neither did the manager. In plain words, " YOU WILL party with the manager and you will either attract women for me or satisfy my urges yourself. It is everywhere. The young boys who went out were mixed. Some didnt mind procuring women for the manager and some would rather " do it themselves. You probably think I am making this up, but I am not. Some of the younger ones walked in the next day and quit.

[MooseMom]

I don't doubt that there were managers who recruited employees for this sort of thing, but how many managers were women in your "early days".  Regarding your previous post, how many female managers in the corporate world did you see sexually harass their male subordinates?

[MooseMom]

 If you wear a steak dress with bacon socks you will attract Dogs. 

LOL, Rerun!  Was that a Lady Gaga reference?  If so, I like it!

My husband just emailed me this:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/all-the-other-harveys

[Jean]

Actually, about 3 that I can think of. One of them was a foreigner and would so jump on the men who came in, that the rest of the staff in that office were embarassed and felt demeaned.I was happy to leave that office.

[Cupcake]

Hooray for Karen in Washington. Sexual violence has nothing to do with seeing a pretty girl and being sexually attracted and Everything to do exerting power and dominance. Not just pretty young women are sexually assaulted; children, the elderly and the disabled are victimized too. It's a damn shame that our 'president' and his disgusting behavior has desensitized our reactions to felons like Weinstein . 

[Jean]

Where in the world does the trend toward sexual violence turn out to be PRESIDENT Trumps fault? It sure wasnt Bill Clinton's fault, now was it??? this is just of the, " I didnt get my way and Clinton lost the election thingie"" So now I will blame everything including the rain in Florida on Trump.  Good Lord!!

[willowtreewren]

Where in the world does the trend toward sexual violence turn out to be PRESIDENT Trumps fault? It sure wasnt Bill Clinton's fault, now was it??? this is just of the, " I didnt get my way and Clinton lost the election thingie"" So now I will blame everything including the rain in Florida on Trump.  Good Lord!!

While it may not be the *president's* FAULT, he has certainly normalized a climate where violence and sexual predation is more accepted. Consider that he has BRAGGED about sexual harassment, encouraged discrimination against those with disabilities and sided with white supremacists. And STILL got elected. That Weinstein is being excoriated is the height of hypocrisy. Where is the same level of disdain for what the *president* has done?

[kickingandscreaming]

The "President" is Role Model-in-Chief.  Sadly, he sets the tone for the whole culture. And a verrry bad tone it is.

[Rerun]

The Clintons' are friends with Weinstein.  He funded Hillary and she is keeping the dirty money. 

Trump isn't on that page.

[Simon Dog]

Ok, how about a change of pace?

Everyone who voted for Trump (is, those who will go down in infamy) post something sleazy about Trump.  Those who voted voted for Clinton can post something about her moral failings.

I'll start - Trump had a long history of shafting contractors, as in "Great work, accept 80% of the agreed price as paid in full or pay an hourly fee to fight my army of attorneys who will bleed you dry on legal fees".

There is enough dirt on both sides, that disingenuous bashing of the "other side" (no matter which side you are on) accomplishes nothing.

she is keeping the dirty money. 

The foundation is claiming the money is already spent.  Due to the fungability of money, this is a lie if the foundation's liquid cash assets exceed the amount of the donation, which is highly likely.

[willowtreewren]

The Clintons' are friends with Weinstein.  He funded Hillary and she is keeping the dirty money. 

Trump isn't on that page.

Hmmm. What about the *president's* charity: https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=16764

As compared to the Clinton Foundation: https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=16680

You say that your *president* isn't on that page. How to you explain an independent, a-political agency's rating of these two charities?

It really isn't hard to do a little bit of fact-checking.

[MooseMom]

Simon Dog, you can say that "there is enough dirt on both sides", but that doesn't make it true.  It's just not true.  Again, that's a false equivalency.  It is just not true.

There is nothing about Trump that is moral or good.  He prides himself as being an "outsider", but what that really means is that he cannot govern and he cannot lead.  He is the most divisive figure in the history of American politics. 

No, there is NOT "dirt" on both sides, not in the way you claim.  That's just not true.  Not true.  Not true.  Factually incorrect.