Las Vegas STRONG

[Rerun]

Prayers for all the Country Music Fans slaughtered and attempted slaughtered.  Who knows what makes nut jobs tick.

Ban Guns??  We have banned Drugs!  How has that worked out for us??  More than 64,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in 2016.  Some are prescription, but not toxic if taken as directed, or SOLD (which is illegal)

No LAWS would have stopped what happened.  Murder... is against the law for crap sake. 

It is a matter of the heart.  There is Evil out there.  Ban That! 

So Sad.  Cowboy-up   

Thank you Law Enforcement !!  They are finally getting a Thank you!  I Back Our Blue!   

[Michael Murphy]

A law restricting the size of the magazines would have caused periodic pauses as the moron reloaded.  The god forsaken NRA has been lobbying Congress to make silencers for all weapons legal,  this incident has caused congress to table the law.  If the moron in Vegas had a silencer it would have been more difficult for the crowd to figure out where to hide.

[Rerun]

If they MAKE sliencers, then he could have gotten one, legal or not, if he (MORON) wanted one.  That is the problem.  Murder is illegal and banned in this country (well almost) but  it happens.  Drugs are banned in this country. 

Keep trying.  We may come up with something.

[iolaire]

I really don't understand why everyone who supports unrestricted gun rights wastes so much time praying for the victims.   

Those people refuse to even try to address the issue. They refuse to accept that this is an American problem they continue to force upon us and that as such they must help come up with a solution.   The gun control movement has proposed their solution to the problem - other then getting more war like weapons on the street and into our public areas what has the gun rights movement offered?

I grew up in the Alaskan bush in a family who subsistence hunted for food.   When my brother took down a bear with either a 12 gauge or .30-06 we canned it and eat it.   It doesn't take much to kill.  With registration and limited availability of firearms people could still defend them selves or hunt for pleasure or food.

I'm sure when Don Junior went to hunt moose this year in Canada he bought at most two guns with him - no silencers, no semi automatic weapons of war, no clips with a huge amount of bullets etc. 

[solid98]

The god forsaken NRA has been lobbying Congress to make silencers for all weapons legal,  this incident has caused congress to table the law.  If the moron in Vegas had a silencer it would have been more difficult for the crowd to figure out where to hide.

Suppressors are perfectly legal after giving the ATF $200.00 and waiting 6-8 months for them to process the form. The suppressors are also $400 to $800 each and can only be paired to one host (firearm), to be legal, so you can't just slap one on whatever you want. They are mandatory for hunters in England and many parts of Europe to keep from bothering the neighbors while hunting. There are literally hundreds of thousands of these things in America. I don't have any but know several people who have 5-6 and know one guy who has a total of 40. I have shot several and can tell you you still need hearing protection, especially with a high velocity round like the .223/5.56 (AR-15/M16) and the 7.62x39 (AK47). In 30 years I have never heard or read of a crime being committed with a suppressor.
BTW, Don Jr was the driving force behind the hearing protection act after using them to hunt.

Also, 59 (white people) dead and 530 (white people) wounded in Vegas which prompts nationwide hand wringing and lamentation.

Chicago, year to date, 498 killed by gunshot, 2395 shot and wounded. The difference? Only 14 of the dead identified as white/other, 414 black, 93 hispanic. Chicago had 57 shot and killed for the MONTH of September. Here is the link to my source. I apologise for the name of the website, but it has all the relevant stats. http://heyjackass.com/category/2017-stats/

What "unrestricted gun rights" are you referring to?

[iolaire]

Yes Chicago, DC, New York City all have huge amounts of guns despite have strict gun laws at the city or state level. But that's because there is no like strict national law, so anyone can drive to a nearby states and buy guns with limited control.

[solid98]

Yes Chicago, DC, New York City all have huge amounts of guns despite have strict gun laws at the city or state level. But that's because there is no like strict national law, so anyone can drive to a nearby states and buy guns with limited control.

No, they have huge amounts of CRIME. Plus a predominately african-american population who feel persecuted, neglected, and victimized by law enforcement. Why should they follow "white man's laws"?

Laws only restrict law abiding citizens. It is against the law, nationwide, to purchase a firearm in a state in which you do not reside, and then take that gun home. If I go to Oklahoma and purchase a gun, that dealer has to ship it to a Federal Firearms License holder who will then do the transfer paperwork and the background check and wait the required 5 day waiting period before I can take possession of it. To do it any other way would be illegal, in which case I wouldn't bother with the drive and figure out an easier way to get one here.

The passing of the Brady Bill put more guns in the hands of people who had no interest in them, than the 8 years of the paranoia brought on by the thought of Barak Obama outlawing them. If you are talking an outright ban, that would involve going door to door and searching every building in America. This ain't Australia. Cops are going to have to kick in a lot of doors, yours included. I guarantee that will start a civil war. You have no idea how many people are out there preparing for society to collapse and are actually excited about it. Cops included, BTW.

The ironic thing is, if he HAD tried to acquire the guns illegally, a snitch would have probably turned him in to the police. It sounds like he did the purchases legally which would not raise any red flags unless he was acting froggy at the gun shop. We just had a doctor stabbed to death by a patient, here. The killer had tried to buy a gun at a gun shop but was acting weird so the store declined to sell to him, so the dude had to get a knife and do it the old fashioned way. A couple of years ago another guy wanted to set a car bomb off at the airport. The guy he went to to get the explosive ratted him out to the ATF and they strung the guy along. They had to wait until he was in the van with the fake explosive and couldn't make the arrest until he pushed the button he thought would make it go boom. They explained they couldn't arrest on INTENT just ACTION.

I learned a long time ago to not trust any news organization to get any story right. I'm going to wait until the police finish their investigation before I get all hot and bothered about anything. I just pray the guy left clues or a manifesto at home or on a computer. There's got to be a reason. I can't fathom hurting one person, much less over 500.

There is actually talk about requiring hotels to have metal detectors and bag searches. I usually wait until I get to the room to get felt up by a stranger. If I'm in Vegas paying $200 for a hooker, I don't want to get "half way there" in the lobby.

Sorry, I've just gotta make a joke, it's this black sense of humor. Remember, it says right in the forum title, thick skin required. Here goes:

Seriously, it's pretty offensive. You should quit reading now.

"Maybe he was just a cranky old fart and he couldn't sleep because of the loud music?"

Ok, done. Got it out of my system. Sorry again.

[Simon Dog]

It is against the law, nationwide, to purchase a firearm in a state in which you do not residence

Close.  You may only buy handguns in your state of residence, but can buy long guns in any state as long as the purchase would be legal  in your state of residence.   Look at 18 USC 922 as well as BAFTE ruling letters for details on the federal gun laws.

There is actually talk about requiring hotels to have metal detectors and bag searches. I usually wait until I get to the room to get felt up by a stranger. If I'm in Vegas paying $200 for a hooker, I don't want to get "half way there" in the lobby.

There are plenty of legitimate cases where a person may take a gun to their room.   Multiple organizations have hosted large (300+ competitor) shooting matches, both handgun and long gun, in Las Vegas (Desert Sportsmens comes to mind).   Some of these take place over several days, and competitors will strip their guns for cleaning between uses.    In fact, I was in one hotel in upstate NY that had a big lobby sign "Rags available at front desk, please do not use our towels to clean your guns".  (Must have been very reassuring to people not in town for the match)

I was at one where some people had checked out before the awards banquet and left their weapons in their cars - and had them stolen, possibly because someone knew of the event and the booty to be had.  I don't know anyone who is going to feel comfortable leaving $4000 guns (typical of the crowd I hang with) in their car while they sleep in a LV hotel.

Also, Nevada is a open carry state (concealed w/permit) and many people normally go armed.   It's just not a big deal out there, and not primia facie indication of criminal activity.

And do couples really want LV security opening their bags to verify it really is handcuffs and not a small gun?

No, they have huge amounts of CRIME. Plus a predominately african-american population who feel persecuted, neglected, and victimized by law enforcement. Why should they follow "white man's laws"?

You missed the memo.   Any opinion other than "blacks and whites commit crimes at equal rates" is racist and must not be uttered.

ATF $200.00 and waiting 6-8 months for them to process the form

My SBR form 1 is up to 10 months and counting   

[MooseMom]

I have been in the UK for almost 3 weeks and so have been able to view this issue from a different viewpoint.  Whenever I am here, I am an avid listener of talk radio, and guns in  America has been a hot topic ( what is odd is that it seems that every time I am here, there is some headline news gun atrocity, so this is a well worn topic) .  "Has America Lost It 's Mind?" was the title of one radio topic on LBC just yesterday.  One guest was the radio host of a US pro gun show, and as he tried to explain why gun ownership is synonymous with freedom, he began to sound like a right nutcase.

If you are one of those who declares that it is not guns that kill people but, rather, it is people who kill people, then I submit that we as a people are unfit, that we as a society no longer can distinguish between the money grubbing propaganda of the NRA and self restraint from giving in to whatever peculiar desire that drives one to want to, above all else, own their own private arsenal.

The fact is that in today's USA,  gun ownership no longer means freedom.  It is no longer a symbol of liberty.  Gun ownership now means mass murder, psychopathic madmen, the death of innocents and the growing fear of any random stranger.

America is now a do nothing nation.  We have reduced ourselves to a plethora of clichés.  We pray for the victims, we pray for the families, we applaud the first responders and then declare the affected city to be ... Strong.

We like to view the US as that shining city on the hill.  Shining for whom?  No one here in the UK is looking at us with anything but horror and disbelief.  If you do not care how other nation see us, then we are not so shiny.

Get rid of this psychopathic obsession with guns, and make America great again.

[Charlie B53]

Murder rates in St Louis aren't near as high as Chicago, but are still way too high.  Most, mot all, are Black on Black.  I don't understand how/why the Blacks can continue blaming Whitey yet keep killing each other.  It's just sad to lose so many young lives, regardless of color, they are far too young and need to learn to live together and figure out how to get past killing.

[MooseMom]

I am not aware of black gang members in Chicago "blaming whitey".

[MooseMom]

I have just listened to a Florida deputy explain that it is legal to own a semi automatic weapon.  It is illegal to own a fully automatic weapon.  It is legal to buy online the mechanism that one can use to make a semi into an automatic, but it is still illegal to have that fully automatic.  This is what the police are saying the LVN killer did.

When asked if this made any sense, the deputy looked frustrated as he vigorously shook his head.

Seems to me that if we truly want to show respect for our police and first responders, we could find ways to keep them safer, like banning the sale of gizmos like these.  But it is not really about freedom, is it.  It is about money and revenue.

[iolaire]

Regarding the common answer against gun control that if you limited guns they would still find a way to kill people, i.e. knives or a truck.  FYI this is a view I also had in college.  Yesterday I listened to a brave Nevada representative on NRP making the same statement.

I think France provides a good example of why we would much prefer people to not have access to guns.  Yes they had the deadly convert shootings (guns again), but more recently that have had various knife attacks, in the most recent case two people were killed. 

Two people dead is a big improvement over 59 dead + hundreds injured.

[MooseMom]

There is just something wrong with us.  Here in the UK, hunters have guns, but there is not this driving obsession with them.  I keep getting asked why there are so many guns in the US, and I cannot come up with anything that makes sense  I find myself prattling on about US history and the wild west and freedom, but it comes out sounding like a load of rubbish.

Where were the good guys with a gun in LVN?  The NRA promised us that those armed good guys would protect us from the bad guy with the gun.  More bs.

Sure, if you really want to kill someone, you could use a knife.  But something must happen to someone's mind when they get that gun in their hand.  There is no time nor effort needed to pull the trigger.  It is so easy.

And if we really DO all need to be armed in order to protect ourselves from each other (because how are we to know who just had a baaaad day), then what kind of scathing indictment about American society is THAT?

[iolaire]

And if we really DO all need to be armed in order to protect ourselves from each other (because how are we to know who just had a baaaad day), then what kind of scathing indictment about American society is THAT?

And don't blame "black gang members," on the need for guns to protect yourself if you are non African American.  90% of the people African Americans kill are other African Americans... And don't blame MS13 as they use machetes.

[KarenInWA]

This is my latest Facebook post. So far, no gun nutter snowflake has spewed any right-wing rhetoric, but I'm sure it's coming.

The NRA spent $52 million buying votes and politicians for the 2016 election. I challenge each and every one of them to donate that $$ to the victims, and for the NRA to match each and every $ that is donated. Then I challenge them to do the same for every other innocent victim of a legally purchased gun. Time for the tainted money to be put to actual use. Time for American lives to be put before snowflake ball tuckers insatiable appetite to build up arsenal for who the f*#k knows what. F*#anyone who claims that's their "right". What about my right to not live next door to something that takes away my safety?? Personal protection and hunting? I'm all for that! Semi-automatic and a sh! ton of arsenal?? F*#k no, red neck white (or black, brown or purple) ball tucking snowflake. Go take your arsenal to the middle of BFE and blow yourself up with your toys.

KarenInWA

[Rerun]

Hollywood is wanting all guns banned but continue making shoot em' up movie after movie.  Blood and guts brings them millions.  Maybe we should ban those horrible movies.  There has been movies from which killers are up in a high place (like a hotel) where the good guys with guns have no way of reaching them.  Thanks Hollywood.  Some sick minds have already thought of what this guy did and then showed him how to do it.   

We can ban almost anything.  That doesn't mean people won't get it that want to.  Lets ban drugs again and see if people listen this time.  Let's ban video murder killing games!  That may stop the mind seeding of evil.

I don't know how we stop any of the nut jobs.  But to not pray for victims and families?  WOW  that is really sick.

[MooseMom]

Hollywood shoot em up movies are shown all over the world, but it is the US that has more of these LVN type mass shootings.  Why is that?  It just supports my theory that there is something fundamentally wrong with Americans.

I keep hearing that banning guns will not work, that we will still see this country awash in murder.  Again, that shows me that the US is sick and is getting sicker.

The victims do not need prayers.  They need  congress to listen to us telling them that the status quo is unacceptable.  Maybe God is trying to tell us something but our leaders who are getting campaign funds from pro gun groups are not listening.  Karen, your fb post is awesome.

[KarenInWA]

I don't know how we stop any of the nut jobs.  But to not pray for victims and families?  WOW  that is really sick.

No, I am choosing to not verbalize that on my facebook posts because it has been proven time and time again to be nothing but a repeated empty phrase that does nothing. Even just reading it sounds dispassionate. I try to no longer use that on any personal post for someone going through difficulty, because it has become such a cliche. People suffering loss and tragedy deserve way more than a simple cliche.

KarenInWA

[Rerun]

I will pray for you then. 

[KarenInWA]

So I'm curious, Rerun. Are you saying that the NRA and all the politicians that they bought *shouldn't* donate all that money to the victims??? Wouldn't that be way more helpful than prayers, since the $$ to pay for this has to come from SOMEwhere? Maybe the local hospitals and funeral services will waive all the bills, which would be incredibly generous. If that happens, don't those hospitals and funeral services deserve to be compensated for all they have done? Where did all that $52 million go to - do we not all agree that campaigning is nothing more than a big waste of $$$ that could be used on actual, real life issues than voting some terd into office? How are all of these medical services, funeral services, etc going to be paid for??? Is praying going to make $$ fall from the sky and cover all of this? I ask because I am genuinely curious.

KarenInWA

[Rerun]

There is a Go Fund Me Page  with over 8 million dollars     Looks like prayers were answered. 

[Rerun]

Hollywood shoot em up movies are shown all over the world, but it is the US that has more of these LVN type mass shootings.  Why is that?  It just supports my theory that there is something fundamentally wrong with Americans. 

Lots of American movies are banned in other countries!  Shows what you know!
Hunger Games.... Departed..... 

[KarenInWA]

There is a Go Fund Me Page  with over 8 million dollars     Looks like prayers were answered.

Sadly, $8 million is not going to come close to covering the lifetime bills that some of these victims are going to be stuck with. The NRA and their politicians need to man/woman up and donate significantly to these victims. Even if they feel they are not responsible, imagine the PR this could do for them. But no, instead, like any other Repubbo, they want to hold on tightly to that $$ for themselves and not share it with those who are unfortunate. Heck, I bet some of those Republicans are blaming the victims for being dumb enough to go to an outdoor concert in the first place. Music is the devil, even when it's country music, right?

KarenInWA

[Rerun]

How do you know they haven't?  How much have you given?  Oh, wait, they were probably Repubtards, so you won't.  You bleeding heart lib-tards  talk but don't act.  That over 8 million was only in 3 days.  That is a Miracle.  Thank you Jesus.