'Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated'... Nobody? Or only Trump?

[Bill Peckham]

How is this affordable to a 30 year old with student loans and working in a new business who doesn't provide benefits.

$300 a month premium with a $10,000 deductible ??  My friend's son has this.  Good thing he is healthy.  He wouldn't go skiing the other day because he didn't want to get hurt.  Couldn't afford to get hurt. 

I will let you know how this will change for him when he gets Trump Care.

Would you prefer there to be an out of pocket maximum? Say $7,150/year? That is what it would be under Trump Care ... the reason being that is what it is now and the proposed legislation does not change it. Your 'friend's son' should get some help with his insurance, he more than likely qualifies for subsidies that would allow him to choose a plan with lower copays. And with the money he saves he would be able to go skiing every weekend. Tell him to Google "Health Insurance Broker" for information instead of trusting Facebook posts. 

[KarenInWA]

Now that TrumpKare has been voted in overnight while most of America was asleep, what I want to know is, what's the point of me saving $$ for retirement? If healthcare is going to become my complete and total responsibility, and I have a prohibitively expensive medical condition, then what's the point of saving for retirement when I'm not going to be able to afford to keep myself alive long enough to use it? I'm 43, working FT at a telecom co in a union-protected position. However, from what I understand, TrumpKare is going to take away tax incentives for employers to provide insurance. We all know that big corporations only really care about the bottom line, and not about the welfare of their employees. So tell me, what's the point???

Thank you, Republican Congress and Senate for helping to lower the life expectancy in these United States of America. An even bigger thank you to the people who voted these vile people to office.

KarenInWA

[iolaire]

Now that TrumpKare has been voted in overnight while most of America was asleep, what I want to know is, what's the point of me saving $$ for retirement? If healthcare is going to become my complete and total responsibility, and I have a prohibitively expensive medical condition, then what's the point of saving for retirement when I'm not going to be able to afford to keep myself alive long enough to use it? I'm 43, working FT at a telecom co in a union-protected position. However, from what I understand, TrumpKare is going to take away tax incentives for employers to provide insurance. We all know that big corporations only really care about the bottom line, and not about the welfare of their employees. So tell me, what's the point???

Thank you, Republican Congress and Senate for helping to lower the life expectancy in these United States of America. An even bigger thank you to the people who voted these vile people to office.

KarenInWA

I hope that long term those of us with ok jobs will come out ok, but we better start planning on spending about $20,000/year ($12k premiums and $8k copay) for healthcare as we age, and much more if you don't have access to a retirement insurance scheme (thankfully my wife works for the federal government and should have access to insurance in retirement) - the market rate has to keep sky rocking on public insurance pools if only non healthy people sign up.

I worry mostly for lower income folks and children in those families.  If people can no afford Obama Care with subsidies and the like how can they afford insurance without subsidies.  Medical savings accounts will not help the lower income folks.  The half of our population with less than $1,000 in savings will not all the sudden start saving money in a Medical savings account.

[Rerun]

So you guys were FINE with Obamacare?  Really?  How do you know.  Most if not all of us are covered by Medicare.  I don't even see a bill.  I see the EOB which makes me crazy. 

[MooseMom]

No one likes this bill, so I am hopeful that it won't even pass and get to Trump's desk.

[MooseMom]

So you guys were FINE with Obamacare?  Really?  How do you know.  Most if not all of us are covered by Medicare.  I don't even see a bill.  I see the EOB which makes me crazy.

See Karen's post.

Have you read the new bill?  What do you like about it?

[Shaks24]

This new bill if passed will cut the solvency date of medicare substantially. It will also get rid of the reforms that are closing the donut hole in medicare D. Additionally it will increase the age band rating from 3:1 to 5:1 for those of advanced age 50 - 64 that are in the individual market for insurance. At the same time it will give the wealthiest Americans and certain special interest groups a significant tax break. The reduced solvency of medicare plays into Ryan's hand of having to do reforms on medicare like his voucher program which ultimately shifts more financial responsibility to the elderly and disabled on medicare. The ACA certainly has flaws that can be made better. This bill is horrible for everyone who is not young, healthy or wealthy.

Here is the AARP's take on it for what it is worth.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/advocacy/info-2017/aarp-opposes-healthcare-bill.html?intcmp=AE-HP-FLXSLDR-SLIDE2

[Michael Murphy]

Don't panic yet this bill has to clear the house and  senate,  Ryan ha enough power to push this through the house but  the senate is another manner.  The republican majority in the senate is 2, ties would be broke by pence, 4 republican senators have announced opposition to this bill at this point this bill looses. Even if the republicans try to make this a budget reconciliation bill to avoid filibuster the courts would step in since that would push the bill out of compliance.
Finally if this bill by some miracle passes in less tha 2 years the midterm elections arrive and the people will get to judge the morons who pushed this bill.

[Rerun]

President Trump is at least OPEN to negotiations.  He is willing to get it right.  Let's come together and get it right this time.  They still are not looking ath truth in billing.  As long as hospitals and DaVita lie about their costs then we will get nowhere. 

[MooseMom]

President Trump is at least OPEN to negotiations.  He is willing to get it right.  Let's come together and get it right this time.  They still are not looking ath truth in billing.  As long as hospitals and DaVita lie about their costs then we will get nowhere.

I agree with this.  But there are two problems.

1.  Trump promised to repeal and replace Obamacare just as the Paul Ryan acolytes have been promising for years.  That means that they have to work from scratch, and THAT means that whatever they come up with, they own.  I don't understand why there is such a rush to do this.  It's spooking everyone. 

2.  I can't be sure that Trump has fully read and digested this new plan.  He is selling it without seemingly having given it a great amount of thought.  He has the attention span of a gnat with ADD, and I don't think he cares enough to make sure that we all have affordable insurance, which is NOT what Ryancare looks to provide.  I'll just have to wait and see what actually lands on his desk.

[Rerun]

Well, in defense of Trump, Day one the media was asking When the new repeal replace plan was coming.  Every damn day it was harp harp and NOW that they threw something out there they (you) are mad that it is not perfect.  It is not Trump's fault that the Republicans weren't working on it for six years.

You can't replace it because you are using tools such as health care, insurance, prices, doctors....  That is like trying to replace the Mississippi River.  They can make it better.  If you worry about who is "taking credit" you will get nowhere.  Something needed to be done.  Obama gave it a try but he should have been open to negations.  He should have been working on it for the last six years.  The 2 good things were no pre-existing conditions and keeping you kid on your insurance until they are 56 or 26...  And Trump is keeping that.  I've heard people screaming about that.... OMG he can't win.

[MooseMom]

Trump campaigned on the promise that he would have the ACA repealed from Day One and would get big cheers from his supporters, so naturally the media would ask him about it.

But you're right in that it is not Trump's fault that the GOP has not been working on this for six years.  That's Ryan's fault, although today he claimed that this bill has been pretty much ready since June of 2016.

Obama WAS open to negotiations.  Fourteen months worth of negotiations, and not only that, but changes were made even AFTER the ACA was put in place (ie changes to the Cadillac tax and the medical devices tax).  Obama's problem was that he was trying to be accommodating to too many groups, and that's how the ACA got so messy.

I personally don't care that much about Obama's "legacy" or anyone's "legacy".  I don't care who gets "credit".

The people who are screaming about pre-existing conditions and keeping your 25 year old kid on your insurance are conservatives who are concerned about how to pay for that.

This is not Trump's bill.  It is Paul Ryan's bill.  I hope that if we get a REAL "TrumpCare" bill, it will have all of the things he promised, like affordable insurance for everyone, which is what universal health care is.  The conflict will come from all of those entities that make a profit off of sick people.  And Trump is, if nothing else, a "businessman", a man who holds profit as the most laudable goal. 

The enduring question is how to provide affordable (and how is that defined?  Who gets to decide what is "affordable"?) health insurance to everyone while at the same time ensure that insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, et al earn an "adequate" profit?

There is no country on earth that has been able to provide health insurance based ONLY on free market principles because people do not get sick by choice. 

[Bill Peckham]

Once you agree people should be covered even if they have preexisting conditions then you have to have the rest.


The problem is that the public positions the Republicans took for the last 8 years do not match their policy ideas. If you want to lower deductibles or the monthly cost of insurance it is an easy matter of increasing the subsidies and/or motivating more (healthy) people to buy insurance. The republicans have zero interest in doing either so there was never a chance they would actually lower costs or deductibles. At some point Trump supporters will have to accept the fact that they have been bamboozled. Trump supporters you have been used.

[Michael Murphy]

Yes Trump is a great negotiator just ask the Russians.

[Shaks24]

They are already trashing the CBO before the bill has even been scored. Its like they know the results will be bad so they got to throw out doubts about the CBO.

[Bill Peckham]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gop-health-care-bill-repeal-medicare-tax-funding-crisis


Do not think being on Medicare is going to provide you with a safe harbor - the bill in the House will:


"By repealing a payroll tax on high earners that provided a critical additional revenue stream for the Medicare trust fund, the GOP's proposed American Health Care Act would speed up the fund’s exhaustion by as many as three to four years, according to estimates from health care policy experts."


Before the ACA passed the Medicare trust fund was expected to go into the red in 2016. The ACA pushed that date out to 2028. Trumpcare reverses those gains.

[Shaks24]

That fits in perfectly into Ryan's narrative that reforms to medicare need to be considered along with his repeal and replace of ACA. This was part of his Better Way agenda to convert medicare into a voucher program that shifts costs to beneficiaries. Create a crisis then claim I told you so. He even went as far as to claim that the ACA caused solvency problems for medicare when in fact the opposite is the truth. If they pass this bill a lot of people will be royally screwed. The scary thing is the right wing of the party wants to take the screwing to the next level. I hope the gap between the far right and the centrists in the GOP causes this bill to fail. For those that support Trump, I urge you to google up some videos of what he promised on healthcare and compare it to what you see in this plan that he is now advocating for. Its night and day difference. This bill totally shafts the poor, the elderly and those with bad health issues while giving a big tax cut to the wealthy and certain special interest groups. The really crazy thing is this bill screws many that voted for him and rewards many that did not.
Bill you seem to feel it will never pass. Is that because of the split between the right and the center of the party?

[KarenInWA]

Am I the only one who thinks that part of the premise of the whole "Make America Great Again" is to lower overall life-expectancy of Americans? We already trail behind our Western peers in this category. Do we want to be #1 in Lowest Life Expectancy of Western Nations and celebrate that?

And yes, I do believe that the ACA needs a lot of work to make costs more fair across the board. What we really need is to take profit and the middle man out of our healthcare. Insane profit at least. Profit for innovation and bettering health is always good, but profit for more sick care is not.

KarenInWA

[Shaks24]

Good summary of what this plan does compared to what was promised.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/10/14881200/trump-health-care-promises

[Rerun]

Well, should we just keep people alive forever on machines no matter the cost?  Originally, you had to qualify for a dialysis machine.  Not a bad idea.  Is this country going to go broke keeping everyone alive?  Sucking our young people dry?  All the healthy immigrants and Refugees who have immune systems of steel can all come in and work and pay taxes to keep us FAT, SICK Americans Alive?  Maybe that is the Left's plan.

[KarenInWA]

Well, should we just keep people alive forever on machines no matter the cost?  Originally, you had to qualify for a dialysis machine.  Not a bad idea.  Is this country going to go broke keeping everyone alive?  Sucking our young people dry?  All the healthy immigrants and Refugees who have immune systems of steel can all come in and work and pay taxes to keep us FAT, SICK Americans Alive?  Maybe that is the Left's plan.

Wow, Rerun, that is a very cold and hateful post you just wrote. Me personally, i have never been overweight. When I was diagnosed with stupid kidneys, I was 23, 5'8" and weighed no more than 130 lbs. I personally don't advocate keeping those who are barely living life in a bed and not able to get out of bed on their own, but then again, I'm not the one who is making those decisions. I certainly don't advocate for death for those who are sick, but still able to have a quality of life, like many dialysis patients are, as well as chronic cancer patients and a whole list of other maladies that humans experience but I don't have the time to list. So are you saying we should do a total "Survival of the Fittest" and if you can't survive with out the help of medication/treatment and/or medical professionals, then lets put you on an island until you die a natural death? Seriously???

KarenInWA

[MooseMom]

Well, should we just keep people alive forever on machines no matter the cost?  Originally, you had to qualify for a dialysis machine.  Not a bad idea.  Is this country going to go broke keeping everyone alive?  Sucking our young people dry?  All the healthy immigrants and Refugees who have immune systems of steel can all come in and work and pay taxes to keep us FAT, SICK Americans Alive?  Maybe that is the Left's plan.

No, we shouldn't keep people alive forever on machines, not just on dialysis machines but on all of the other machines that keep alive those people who are in a vegetative state.  No one is forcing you to stay on dialysis.  But there ARE legislators who are forcing to keep alive those people who are so ill and whose quality of life is so poor that they are seeking euthanasia.

[Bill Peckham]

Bill you seem to feel it will never pass. Is that because of the split between the right and the center of the party?

I've been wrong more than I've been right about these sorts of things but in general I think that the only voters who can push back on Trump are the people who voted for him. This is going to create push back from his voters. This plan is so profoundly against the interests of the people who voted for him I think Trump will be quick to fold and blame the failure on everyone but himself. So long as his voters were willing to close their minds to the corrosive effect of his lying (what happens now when there is an actual crises? How much worse will it be because the administration has no credibility?) and not hold him to account for his promises (how many times was this healthcare plan going to be released in a week? or next month?) Trump could claim success because the right people were upset. Now it is real. It will make your life much harder if you are poor, rural and/or 40 to 67, it's not going to be enough that Nancy Pelosi is against it.

[MooseMom]

I've been wrong more than I've been right about these sorts of things but in general I think that the only voters who can push back on Trump are the people who voted for him.

VP Pence is to travel to Kentucky this weekend to speak more about the new health care bill.  I was thinking that the voters there would be given the chance to listen and to show their support for it or their disagreement with it.  But no.  He is scheduled to speak only to business leaders. 

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/03/10/details-released-vp-mike-pences-louisville-visit/99002942/

Why do you think these are invite-only events???

[kickingandscreaming]

Well, should we just keep people alive forever on machines no matter the cost?  Originally, you had to qualify for a dialysis machine.  Not a bad idea.  Is this country going to go broke keeping everyone alive?  Sucking our young people dry?

Wow! Rerun.  Such coldness.  Perhaps YOU would like to volunteer to get off YOUR dialysis machine-- for starters.  Maybe they should just line up dialysis people before a shooting squad.  Easy money!