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Author Topic: More dialysis is NOT better???  (Read 1044 times)
Rerun
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Going through life tied to a chair!

« on: February 03, 2017, 09:15:01 AM »

This was on the National News.  Australia says More dialysis is Not better than conventional 3x3 a week.  Really?  That is BS and they should be shut down.  I'm glad we are not taking their damn refugees!

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-02-dialysis-benefits.html

It does show some benefits in this and in that... well then it shows benefits.  The FAKE CBS News just said it does NOT show any benefits.  What are people going to think now?  Thanks CBS .....   :stressed; 

 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 09:19:13 AM by Rerun » Logged

Simon Dog
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 10:20:09 AM »

The article mentions "no improvement in quality of life", but does not do a multi-decade, study on the long term effects on health and longevity.
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Rerun
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 12:16:43 PM »

What will Medicare do with this?  I know first hand more dialysis is better.

        :bow; 
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kickingandscreaming
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 01:03:32 PM »

Quote
What will Medicare do with this?

Oh. Don't worry. Soon there won't BE any Medicare.
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Diagnosed with Stage 2 ESRD 2009
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smartcookie
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 01:52:57 PM »

I would argue that there is more quality of life when there is more dialysis.  The patient feels better, has less toxins to cause symptoms of kidney disease, which in turn lessens the effects of kidney disease in the person's life.  That study is rubbish. 
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 03:34:34 PM »

Just what we need!!!! Hopefully nobody pays any real attention to this.
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Rerun
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 07:56:12 PM »

If a certain Orange person said it there would be worldwide Outrage...

 :sarcasm;  like my sign??      :waving; 
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 09:38:56 PM »

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Patients at 40 hospitals in Australia, Canada, China and New Zealand were evaluated over 12 months.
I would accept that the quality of life over 12 months was not that much difference.  In fact, 12 hours extra chair time per week might reduce quality of life.

I'd like to see a side by side comparison of 5, 10, 15 and 20 year survival rates on dialysis for the two populations, or perhaps comparison graphs of the tendency to develop LVH and/or amyloidosis over time.

I'd bet a side by side comparison of non-smokers vs. someone who started smoking a pack a day for 12 months would show no difference in lung cancer between the two populations.   That would not lead to a valid conclusion that non-smoking reduces the long term risk of that disease.

Choose what you measure and you can get any conclusion you want.
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kickingandscreaming
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2017, 06:16:05 AM »

Lies. Damn lies.  And statistics.
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Athena
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2017, 06:53:31 AM »

Rerun, this was simply one study and does not prove anything, and it will not lead to any changes in dialysis practice.

The head honcho at this organisation has said: ""The growing numbers of people with kidney failure experience poorer health than their peers. The jury is still out on whether extending dialysis hours will play a role in reducing this burden. We are continuing to follow these patients to see if important differences emerge over a five year period". So their intention is to keep researching patients.

Remember, the bulk of Australian research argues for more & improved dialysis treatments, not less from all that I have read, so this is a very isolated study.

I wouldn't worry!









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Rerun
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2017, 08:21:45 AM »

I'm tired of sitting back.  I'm going to email CBS NEWS and rip them a new one for reporting this without OUR information.  Go out and interview dialysis patients on Nocturnal dialysis and DON'T just cut out all the ones that rave about it and air the ones that hate it.  That is FAKE news and they do it all the time. 

I know I would be dead by now if I was left on 3 x a week at 3 hours.  They could never get the fluid off.  And that would have left more money in Medicare so maybe that wold have been best.  After all we all do come to judgement. 

It just makes me mad that there is no fair News reporting anymore.  They report the side they WANT to report.

I'm picking up my sign and protesting.
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kitkatz
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 09:41:02 PM »

I will jin you Rerun. If it were not for extended dialysis I would probably be dead.
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Ivanova: "Old Egyptian blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk." Babylon 5

Remember your present situation is not your final destination.

Take it one day, one hour, one minute, one second at a time.

"If we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna lose it. Lose it... It means go crazy, nuts, insane, bonzo, no longer in possession of ones faculties, three fries short of a Happy Meal, wacko!" Jack O'Neill - SG-1
Simon Dog
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 02:27:54 AM »

5 years on, and I dodged the LVH bullet at the cardiac workup a bit under a year ago.  I suspect this is related to the better fluid management with 5x/wk NxStage instead of 3x clinic treatment.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 08:24:06 AM by Simon Dog » Logged
Charlie B53
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 03:15:52 AM »


3 hour treatments?  My Neph at the VA started me at 4 1/2 hours, my local clinic Dr cut that to 4 hours.  I am very strict with my fluids so far no problems, but it's only been almost 6 months.  I don't have enough time in yet to qualify as a good example of anything.  But I'm thinking that if I can continue to keep a tight rein on my fluid intake that this Hemo thing can work just as well as PD did and with far less 'connected' time, I have far more 'Free' time.

In my case, I don't see much added benefit of doing home Hemo other than that should allow me far more fluid intake, much the same as when I was on PD.  This may be a possibility later on if I can conquer my needle=phobia well enough I could needle myself.  That would be a HUGE bridge to cross.  We have a bunch of huge old Oaks and Elms on our property but I would simply Hate to cut any of them down just so I could build a bridge and get over it.
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Bill Peckham
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 02:54:45 PM »

The study randomized people into two groups: "extended weekly (≥24 hours) or standard (target 1215 hours, maximum 18 hours) hemodialysis hours for 12 months."

no one was dialyzing for three hours / treatment,  - that is an almost exclusively an American treatment length. So 4 to 6 hour treatments, compared to, 8 hour treatments. The result does not surprise me.
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« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 02:56:04 PM by Bill Peckham » Logged

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Michael Murphy
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2017, 06:16:24 PM »

One study released for comment should not be getting this type of reaction.  Every one knows facts should be validated.  There was a time every body knew ulcers were caused by too much acid and patients were advised to drink a lot of milk. Then one lone doctor decided to examine what everybody knew and decided that most ulcers were caused by a bacteria and a  treatment with antibiotics cured the ulcer. For many years he was laughed out of the buildings where ever he presented his opinion.  After a while other doctors realized his patients were being cured and they tried his antibiotics approach.  Now it's common knowledge that bacteria causes most ulcers.  I don't know if mor dialysis is good or bad but I do know questioning the facts generally leads to more knowledge of the disease and eventually better treatment for all.
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Charlie B53
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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2017, 05:08:46 AM »


Preconcieved theories often leaf to Biased testing.  This often leads to Biased 'proof' which actually proves nothing.

It can be difficult to observe and test anything without making erroneous judgements.  Time, patience, and an openness to new ideas can be difficult when we are too much in a hurry.
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