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catlady
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« on: January 11, 2017, 03:19:50 PM »

:Kit n Stik;
Hi, I've been on in-center hemo for ~8 years and I have recently (past 2 months) started having unbearable muscle cramps.  I've been extra careful with fluid intake and they've raised my dry weight - nothing helps.  I am to the point I am considering stopping treatment.  Anybody have suggestions?  Thanks! Catlady  :waiting;
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kickingandscreaming
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 03:48:07 PM »

Some swear by regular hits of tonic water (quinine) and others by the occasional pickle.  I used to get them but they stopped and I don't know why.  I'm just grateful.
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Diagnosed with Stage 2 ESRD 2009
Pneumonia 11/15
Began Hemo 11/15 @6%
Began PD 1/16 (manual)
Began PD (Cycler) 5/16
Charlie B53
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 06:50:39 PM »


It may be possible that your dry weight is still too low for your system.

First, do you have any swelling of the ankles feet or legs?  If so then talk to your neph about compression socks.  I like the tube socks that come on a roll and you cut to length.  They are so much more comfortable than the normal synthetic knee support hose.

Second, how are your blood pressures?  Sitting and standing pressures should give an indication if you are too dry the standing may be too much lower than the sitting.

I have a few quinine capsules left.  The VA won't give them out any longer.  Many state quinine water helps them.  Many claim pickle juice helps.  I have used a large mug of chicken broth.  The common factor in all the liquids is the salt.  It helps the body retain that liquid you drink with it, slightly raising blood pressure and increasing the circulating volume in the vascular system.
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Michael Murphy
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »

There are studies showing caffeine helps, one of the patients I attend with swears by a piece of chocolate, another one bites into a bullion cube, personally when I cramp its usually in my legs, while rare it happens, I  sit up in the recliner slide forward till I get my feet on the floor and push down on the floor it seems to help.
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cassandra
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 12:46:30 AM »

Could also be your bicarb levels in your blood? Ask 'them' or increase bicarb levels on the machine, or increase bicarb tabs/cabs.

Love, Cas
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
Rerun
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 05:30:36 AM »

Tonic water everyday.  A gulp right before you leave for treatment....

 :thumbup; 
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Michael Murphy
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 08:41:01 AM »

I've only been doing this for 4 years. But my understanding is for most people your dry weight should be slightly more than the weight you start to cramp. Remember dry is a art on science.  You can also screw up your weight by wearing heavier cloths, or shoes.if you need to wear different clothes I use a large kitchen scale that reports in kilos. I know what my usual clothes weigh and I subtract or add the difference. If today's  clothes are a half a kilo more I subtract .5 from my scale reading.  My big problem is when a tech decides to go below my real dry weight, this causes my bodies solid waste  stream to come to a halt.  It takes a couple of days to work out.  Until this is fixed I demand the techs don't go to extremes and only take off a kilo.  This is a royal pain but unless someone comes up with a better way to determine dry weight the best bet for the patient is to become involved with the fluid being removed.
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 09:59:30 AM »

There are studies showing caffeine helps, one of the patients I attend with swears by a piece of chocolate, another one bites into a bullion cube, personally when I cramp its usually in my legs, while rare it happens, I  sit up in the recliner slide forward till I get my feet on the floor and push down on the floor it seems to help.
The term is dorsoflexing the foot.
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Charlie B53
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 03:38:24 AM »


It is also possible that you have gained weight, NOT water weight, but muscle or fat, either will raise your 'dry weight'.

I know when the machine is taking off too much.  I get 'cramps' not in my calves but it feels more like it is in the shin bone itself.  Amazingly painful and I have to tell the Tech to immediately STOP taking off and more water, that I am getting too dry already.

We have again raised my dry weight so hopefully this won't be happening again for a long time.
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smartcookie
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2017, 06:31:32 AM »

All these suggestions are great!  I have also read that if you get them at home, take a damp towel and throw it in the dryer.  One it is warm but still damp, wrap it around your legs.  Helps with cramps and diabetic nerve pain. 
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I am a renal social worker.  I am happy to help answer questions, but please talk to your clinic social worker for specifics on your particular situation.
kristina
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 12:52:11 PM »

Hello catlady and I am very sorry about your muscle cramps.
I "only" experience muscle cramps when too much water is being taken off and
I reach "underneath" my dry weight. Apart from this I have no answers and do hope
your doctors can help you with this soon because muscle cramps can be pretty awful.
Best wishes and good luck from Kristina. :grouphug;
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Charlie B53
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 05:45:49 AM »


We neglected to ask you for more information about your cramps, when, where, and so on.

There is a difference.  If I get the shin 'cramp' pain while I am still on the machine I KNOW I am screwed and immediately have a couple of cups of chicken broth when I get home.

Otherwise when slightly too dry I don't have any problem until I go to bed.  Then I wake up with leg cramps. The only thing that works then is immedeatly stand up and make myself walk.  It is little baby shuffling steps but the movement causes the cramped muscles to flex stretch and release, allowing blood flow in to remove the waste from the muscle and allow oxygen in to feed the exhausted muscle.

A half a muscle relaxer, couple of Tylenol, cup of chicken broth, a couple of trips out to the garage for a cigarette and I can finally go back to sleep with fear of another cramp waking me again.

I pay strict attention to my finished weight now so I can tell before I get out the door if I have to make some broth when I get home.  We have raised my dry weight again this morning so I hopefully I will be fine today.

Let us know your progress.  We know cramps are NO Fun.

Take Care,

Charlie B53
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