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Author Topic: I have no qualms about voting for Clinton, Ask Me Anything  (Read 59554 times)
MooseMom
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« Reply #175 on: November 28, 2016, 02:23:55 PM »

But, as I said earlier, the first step is accepting statistical facts and not pretending they don't exist by responding to the much higher per-capita risks Muslim immigrants pose with true, but irrelevant, responses like "we have more danger from domestic threats".

I don't see any evidence that our security forces (to use an admittedly generic term) are ignoring the statistical fact that there is a higher per-capita risk. 
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« Reply #176 on: November 28, 2016, 10:24:41 PM »

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I don't see any evidence that our security forces (to use an admittedly generic term) are ignoring the statistical fact that there is a higher per-capita risk.
There would be a few less sliced people on Ohio if the US govt told Abdul: "Sorry, you are from a region and religion with a statistically higher than average risk of terrorism.  You visa/permanent resident application is denied."
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MooseMom
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« Reply #177 on: November 29, 2016, 05:01:17 AM »

In the same vein, you could say, "Sorry, you're a man and you're statistically more likely to kill and rape.  You may not own a gun."

Or,

"Sorry, you're wearing shorts that depict a Confederate Flag, and you're statistically more likely to shoot black people.  You may not own a gun".  There would be fewer murdered churchgoers in S. Carolina.

See, this is the concern.  It's easy to create fear and thus take away people's lawful rights.

How do we spot people who may become self-radicalized, whether they be Muslim or a white nationalist?  And what do we do with families from such regions who are fleeing the very types of men that you yourself fear? 

I'm sure you consider yourself to be a reasonable man and a responsible gun owner.  But how are we to know if something were to break in your mind, and then you decide to go on some rampage?  Men like you are statistically more likely to do others harm.  What do we do to keep ourselves safe from you?
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« Reply #178 on: November 29, 2016, 05:14:21 AM »

Next question for you all, again about a possible appointment to Secretary of State.

This time, the candidate may be David Petraeus.

We all know that Hillary Clinton's emails were the most important issue this country has ever faced.  :sarcasm;  She was investigated by the FBI, and no matter what James Comey had to say on the matter, Trump and the Republicans were not satisfied.  They called for her to be locked up despite there being no findings of any worth.

Fast forward to now as David Petraeus is being considered.

He pleaded guilty to knowingly sharing classified information after lying about it to the government.

Is he fit to be Sec. of State in your opinion?  Do you think Congress will approve his nomination, assuming he is Trump's pick?
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« Reply #179 on: November 29, 2016, 05:42:22 AM »

... I still keep my fingers crossed that everything turns out alright after all this turmoil  ...
,... but ... one song comes to mind all the same :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6_jA_ZlN84
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« Reply #180 on: November 29, 2016, 05:48:30 AM »

Quote
Fast forward to now as David Petraeus is being considered. He pleaded guilty to knowingly sharing classified information after lying about it to the government.

Is he fit to be Sec. of State in your opinion?  Do you think Congress will approve his nomination, assuming he is Trump's pick?

He would be approved.  Because he's a republican and they are not held to the same standards as the other side. And the current congress is full of hypocrites.  And he's not Hillary and they don't suffer from Petraeus Derangement Syndrome.  Even tho he actually betrayed the nation (to his lover, no less) and Hillary did no such thing.

I think all the lousy selections being made reflect how very shallow a bench we have to draw from.
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Athena
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« Reply #181 on: November 29, 2016, 06:54:05 AM »

Is Donald Trump safe from this nonsense about a recount? I was alarmed when I first heard of this & have had a friend try to explain to me that it may be possible for Hillary to 'win' (even though she's lost). How can this be true?

Every US President has won the electoral college vote and there have been 4 previous instances of an elected President who has not won the popular vote. Is it true that many undocumented illegal migrants voted in the election for Clinton?

When will this uncertainty be well and truly over? We're still celebrating Trump's win and we are witnessing already so many positive changes in the wake of his victory.
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MooseMom
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« Reply #182 on: November 29, 2016, 07:05:31 AM »

Oh my God. 

No, it is not true that "many undocumented illegal immigrants" voted in the election.  Donald Trump lied, and you bought it.  Oh my God.

No, Hillary Clinton is not going to end up winning the election.  It was Jill Stein who has asked for a recount only in certain states.  She has raised the money for it, and calling for a recount in the states that allow it is fine.  The states where she has asked for a recount are always prepared for such an eventuality.

Athena, please please please please make a list of the "so many" positive changes you have already witnessed.  Positive policy changes, please, not just "oh, we are so happy".

Do us a favour, OK?  Do some research on the following people:

Steve Bannon
Jeff Sessions
David Petraeus
Rudy Giuliani

After you've learned a bit more, come back and tell us what you think.

Thank you!
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« Reply #183 on: November 29, 2016, 08:20:48 AM »

Not only did Petraeus betray the country by "sharing" classified emails with his lover, but another word: Bengazi, Bengazi, Bengazi!

What is often "forgotten" is that Petraeus was head of the CIA during Bengazi. But GOP had zero interest in blaming Petraeus for how he handled his covert operations there. Not when they could try and pin it on Obama before the 2012 election.

That didn't work. …so by Nov 2012 every GOP senator and congressperson knew Benghazi was a covert CIA operation under the direction of Gen Petraeus who had dozens of his agents and operatives on the ground there before, during, and after the attack. But….they also know that a White House is not going to give up its CIA under any circumstance and it would take over a decade for any relevant documents to be revealed, if at all.

Shift blame to Sec of State Clinton and the State Dept. And in her 11 hour inquisition about Bengazi Clinton couldn't point her finger at Petraeus and CIA or she would be betraying state secrets.  Nice deal.

Attack her on this for the next four years.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-libya-cia-idUSBRE8A102T20121102
---------------------------
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204712904578092853621061838
Quote
CIA Takes Heat for Role in Libya

When the bodies of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans killed in Benghazi, Libya, arrived at Andrews Air Force Base after the Sept. 11 attack, they were greeted by the president, the vice president and the secretaries of state and defense. Conspicuously absent was CIA Director David Petraeus.
Officials close to Mr. Petraeus say he stayed away in an effort to conceal the agency's role in collecting intelligence and providing security in Benghazi. Two of the four men who died that day, Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty, were former Navy SEAL commandos who were publicly identified as State Department contract security officers, but who actually worked as Central Intelligence Agency contractors, U.S. officials say.

The U.S. effort in Benghazi was at its heart a CIA operation, according to officials briefed on the intelligence. Of the more than 30 American officials evacuated from Benghazi following the deadly assault, only seven worked for the State Department. Nearly all the rest worked for the CIA, under diplomatic cover, which was a principal purpose of the consulate, these officials said.
….
Nearly eight weeks after the attacks, a complete accounting hasn't emerged in public view. The brunt of the public criticism for security lapses has so far been directed at the State Department, rather than the CIA, which, by design, operates largely in the shadows. Critics in Congress say the CIA has used secrecy in part to shield itself from blame—a charge officials close to the agency deny.

This account of the CIA presence in Benghazi sheds new light on the events, and how the essentially covert nature of the U.S. operations there created confusion. Congressional investigators say it appears that the CIA and State Department weren't on the same page about their respective roles on security, underlining the rift between agencies over taking responsibility and raising questions about whether the security arrangement in Benghazi was flawed.

The CIA's secret role helps explain why security appeared inadequate at the U.S. diplomatic facility. State Department officials believed that responsibility was set to be shouldered in part by CIA personnel in the city through a series of secret agreements that even some officials in Washington didn't know about.
>>>>>
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nursey66
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« Reply #184 on: November 29, 2016, 10:43:20 AM »

Positive changes? Name one ! Revamping Medicare will not be helpful to most of us with ESRD . How does lowering income tax on the highest incomes and raising taxes on the lower income helpful to us , unless you are in the top income earners, if you are, I don't think you would be even on this site . His picks for his cabinet are going to get us in a war , not to mention his obnoxious tweets he sends every time someone says or does something he doesn't like. In my honest opinion he is immature and narsasistic!  God help us all !!!!
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« Reply #185 on: November 29, 2016, 10:48:57 AM »

No, it is not true that "many undocumented illegal immigrants" voted in the election.  Donald Trump lied, and you bought it.  Oh my God.

It is possible that "some to many" illegal immigrants voted in this election.  Two states that I know of - California and Vermont - have allowed undocumented persons to get Driver's Licenses for a couple years now.  Now us, US Citizens, who have had licenses for years have to jump through numerous hoops to get a "Federal License" (allows us to get on airplanes, etc), while others can get just a state license without it.  And those, like my husband, who have misplaced their SS card are screwed because they can't get a Federal DL without it and they can't get a replacement SS card without a valid Federal ID.

This year, Vermont changed to automatically registering voters when they got their Driver's Licenses unless you opt out.  Not sure if it was this year or before with California.  So now we have illegal immigrants on the voter rolls.  Did they vote?  Maybe, maybe not.  But they shouldn't be able to make political decisions for a country they aren't a citizen of! 

*Disclaimer - I did not vote for either Clinton or Trump.  And I fully support legal immigration - my husband is a first-gen American; his father immigrated as a teen and all four of his grandparents immigrated too.
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March 2007 - Brother diagnosed with ESRD, started dialysis 3 days later
April 2007 - Myself and sister also diagnosed with Senior-Loken Syndrome (Juvenile Nephronophthisis and Retintis Pigmentosa)

Since then, I've tried PD three times unsuccessfully, done In-Center hemo, NxStage short daily, Nocturnal NxStage, and had two transplants.  Currently doing NxStage short daily while waiting for a third transplant.

Married Sept. 2011 to my wonderful husband, James, who jumped into NxStage training only 51 days after our wedding!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
MooseMom
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« Reply #186 on: November 29, 2016, 12:57:25 PM »

K&S, you've got that right.  Benghazi was not an embassy, nor was it a consulate.  It was a CIA outpost, and it was the responsibility of Petraeus, but Congress got people to believe it was Clinton's fault, all while Petraeus was divulging national security secrets to his lady love.  He and Trump are both pervs.

Athena, I am guessing that you live in an English speaking country which would put you in the UK, Australia or Canada, all of which have some sort of National Health Service.  So while you are entitled to your opinion, I'm going to disregard it because you are not going to have to endure whatever kind of healthcare system Tom Price might push us into (or out of, more likely).  Google him.  Vouchers for all!!!  yay!

KatieV, no, millions of illegal immigrants did not vote.  C'mon.  Since you specifically mention Vermont, here's the link to their DMV website that explains the difference between what you have to do to get a license and what you have to do to register to vote.  Remember, residency is not the same as citizenship.

http://www.dmv.org/vt-vermont/voter-registration.php
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 01:11:22 PM by MooseMom » Logged

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« Reply #187 on: November 29, 2016, 04:11:28 PM »

If you hated Obama for the last 8 years realize People like me will hate the current idiot elect with equal fervor.  I personally will show Drumph the idiot as much respect as he showed Obama during his 8 years.  It was bad enough when the morons elected George Bush the lesser for 2 terms well they are letting the congenital idiots have their president this term.  The only hope of any fairness (realize drumph the idiot is now talking about lowering his and his friends tax bracket but raising it on the people who elected him) is that the 48 Democratic Senators can act as a firewall and stop most of the crap this idiot is spewing about future plans.  Already his team is hinting about major Medicare cuts and changes.  Well that sorts out my Medicare problem since I have been forced on to Medicare at 30 months, I probably don't have any insurance to fall back on and I will be dead.  Solves my Drumph the Idiot problem but if the Democrats can't stop this insanity then when I die on my grave stone "Born 1951, Died 201X. Killed by the Republicans and their leader Donald "Drumph the Idiot" Trump"



« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 10:05:03 PM by Michael Murphy » Logged
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« Reply #188 on: November 29, 2016, 06:32:03 PM »

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K&S, you've got that right.  Benghazi was not an embassy, nor was it a consulate.
What I really don't understand is why they didn't have a few Dillon Aero miniguns mounted to the roof, a few trained Marines to operate them, boatloads of ammo, and a loudspeaker system to give plenty of warning to peaceful religious representatives gathering in protest.   With readily available hardware (made by a really great guy with one kidney who recently died .... obligatory tie-in), they could have easily had complete area denial to the grounds.
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nursey66
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« Reply #189 on: November 29, 2016, 11:07:58 PM »

You are so right Mr Murphy , Trump never said a word about messing with Medicare in his campaign , now he has big plans to overhaul it ?  If this would of been said earlier he would not have won !! Seniors all love their Medicare and so do I ! Letters going out daily to my congress woman asked for her to please fight for it !
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« Reply #190 on: December 01, 2016, 10:26:44 AM »

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Letters going out daily to my congress woman asked for her to please fight for it !

Although any contact with your congress critter is good, picking up the phone and calling their local office is the most powerful way to lodge your opinions.  You will speak to a aide, but your call will be relayed and will count much more than a letter (or heaven forbid, an email).
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #191 on: December 01, 2016, 07:12:17 PM »

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Letters going out daily to my congress woman asked for her to please fight for it !

Although any contact with your congress critter is good, picking up the phone and calling their local office is the most powerful way to lodge your opinions.  You will speak to a aide, but your call will be relayed and will count much more than a letter (or heaven forbid, an email).
On a controversial issue with lots of calls, they just keep tick marks on each side - and your call is very important so you side has the most marks when the report is given to the aparatachik. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 07:13:30 PM by Simon Dog » Logged
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« Reply #192 on: December 05, 2016, 07:42:23 AM »

Whew! That was close! 

When I think of how close we actually came to having a president who once used a private email server--like her predecessors-- I'm like Whew! thank goodness we got the guy who is going to bust unions, take away our healthcare, fleece the treasury and give all our secrets to Russia.  Not to mention tweet us into war--before he's even installed. 

Wow! We dodged a bullet....

 :sarcasm;
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« Reply #193 on: December 05, 2016, 08:31:05 AM »

I am an immigrant to America. Green Card in 1984 and finally decided to naturalize in 1996. I have lived in a number of different countries and in my humble opinion none of them compare to the good old USA. I've lived here through a lot of turmoil in those 32 years but what has kept my faith up in knowing I live in the best country in the world is the strength and determination of the American people. Ever since this recent election I have felt anxious and down. Not so much because Trump won but more because I have never sensed such a deep division in America. I've seen friends turn on one another because of political beliefs and even end their friendships. I feel bad for those that are afraid of what the future will bring and I am afraid myself. Change can be tough and scary. In the end my faith still lies in the American people to do the right thing. If this train goes off the track the American voter will respond like they have before and demand change through their votes. I am worried but hopeful and I pray for the best for this great country and its great people.
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kickingandscreaming
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« Reply #194 on: December 05, 2016, 08:40:56 AM »

From the mouth of the Orange one (in 2012):
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-2012-election-tweetstorm-resurfaces-popular-electoral/story?id=43431536

"He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!" (Trump, 2012)

"The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."

"“We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!”

“Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.”

“This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!”

“Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before.”

I agree.  Out in the street--with pitchforks. 
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MooseMom
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« Reply #195 on: December 05, 2016, 09:18:40 AM »

What do you all think of Trump's/Pence's deal with Carrier?

Shaks24, your sentiments are very nice, but the fact remains that the United States will soon have a president who was elected by a minority of voters.  More people either voted for Hillary Clinton, voted for another candidate or did not vote at all. 

The President-Elect, with the consent of Congress, might very well militarize his Cabinet.  This is contrary to the American Constitution's spirit of having the military under citizen control.  To be fair, it seems like he is launching several trial balloons, and this is a good thing.  We cannot have a general who pled guilty to releasing security secrets as our new Secretary of Defense or State.

We cannot have Goldman Sachs operatives as Secretary of the Treasury.

These are characteristics of African dictatorships.

We have fooled ourselves into thinking that we are somehow special, but we are not.  We have fooled ourselves into thinking that we are brave, but we are scared of bringing in a few thousand Syrian refugees who have suffered far more from ISIS and their brutality than we could possibly imagine.  We are paranoid, believing that behind every lamppost there is some terrorist waiting to get us. 

We have fooled ourselves into believing that we are a Christian and therefore compassionate nation, but we have voted in a man who wants to name a person to the position of HUD secretary who has openly admitted that he has no experience in this regard.  This is the department responsible for housing some of our most vulnerable citizens.

We have fallen into believing that this man is going to save us from all of those nasty elites and rich guys who have created such inequality in our "exceptional" nation.  Name one potential cabinet nominee who is neither an elite nor a rich guy.  Name just one. 

We have forgotten that the success of a democracy depends upon the education of the electorate.  Go and look at the goals and values of the woman Trump has named as his nominee for education secretary.  We now get our information from Russian internet trolls who insist Clinton has Parkinson's, and we believe it.

Even here on this forum, we get posters who insist that there is dancing in the street all over the world who are relishing a Trump victory and who regale us with tales of all of the good things that have already happened in their country because of the result of this election.  These are lies.

We have trumpeted our demand for transparency, but while one candidate is raked over the coals by Congress and the FBI, our president elect tells us that his business practices and his financial position is "none of your business", and we let him off free.  We have abdicated as a people.  We demand nothing more than a father figure who has promised to single-handedly make everything OK.





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« Reply #196 on: December 05, 2016, 09:26:08 AM »

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What do you all think of Trump's/Pence's deal with Carrier?
Nothing more than a PR stunt.   It just doesn't scale.  We will not save millions of jobs by having El Presidente individually negotiate each batch of 800.
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« Reply #197 on: December 06, 2016, 03:55:50 AM »

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What do you all think of Trump's/Pence's deal with Carrier?
Nothing more than a PR stunt.   It just doesn't scale.  We will not save millions of jobs by having El Presidente individually negotiate each batch of 800.

I've had a little bit of a debate about the significance of this deal with a friend. It's interesting. My view is that this sends an important new market signal to the global business community & may simply be a taste of what's to come on a larger scale. For the past few decades, we've had massive economic deregulation and the 'freeing' of markets that has seen many companies just go offshore to countries with the cheapest labour force & cost of production. This was supposed to increase the net wealth of the global economy. In return for this wide scale loss of jobs, we received a massive influx of cheap Asian products that has freed up our resources to produce more sophisticated manufactured products & services. This sounded like a good economic theory about 30 years ago. However over time this has not been a good economic deal for the domestic economy in many ways. Trump has simply advised the Carrier board of directors that this offshoring behaviour in future will lead to loss of government revenue (which they do factor in their strategic business decision-making). This is not in my opinion a new central planning dictatorial type of message but simply a new market goalpost shift that is long overdue. (Needless to say, my friend doesn't quite agree with this & thinks it's too radical a view!  :rofl;).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 06:24:24 AM by Athena » Logged

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« Reply #198 on: December 06, 2016, 06:24:32 AM »

I am an immigrant to America. Green Card in 1984 and finally decided to naturalize in 1996. I have lived in a number of different countries and in my humble opinion none of them compare to the good old USA. I've lived here through a lot of turmoil in those 32 years but what has kept my faith up in knowing I live in the best country in the world is the strength and determination of the American people. Ever since this recent election I have felt anxious and down. Not so much because Trump won but more because I have never sensed such a deep division in America. I've seen friends turn on one another because of political beliefs and even end their friendships. I feel bad for those that are afraid of what the future will bring and I am afraid myself. Change can be tough and scary. In the end my faith still lies in the American people to do the right thing. If this train goes off the track the American voter will respond like they have before and demand change through their votes. I am worried but hopeful and I pray for the best for this great country and its great people.

Things tend to get clouded with the media bias.  If you are a legal immigrant like YOU are.  Do not worry.  You are an American.  If you are here illegally and have committed crimes you better be afraid, because you took advantage of a good thing and you need to go.  If you are here illegally and have a clean record you may have a chance to become legal.  That is how I see it.  But, the WALL will be built to stop the blood loss from Mexico and South America.

 :thumbup;
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« Reply #199 on: December 06, 2016, 07:48:45 AM »

Rerun, I don't think Shak is expressing worry about his own legal status, rather, he is expressing anxiety about how Trump has so divided this nation.
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