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« on: September 05, 2016, 09:35:57 PM »

How should undocumented immigrants get free dialysis?
 Shari Rudavsky, shari.rudavsky@indystar.com 6:20 p.m. EDT September 4, 2016
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(Photo: Picsfive, Getty Images/iStockphoto)
Thanks to a rare quirk in the U.S. health system, citizens with advanced kidney disease don't have to worry about whether they will be able to receive routine dialysis treatment.

For more than four decades, the federal government has paid for dialysis to ensure that people with a potentially deadly disease have access to life-saving treatment. But the legislation that opened the door to seemingly universal dialysis in 1972 left out one group of patients: undocumented immigrants.

These individuals often find themselves forced to rely on what many experts say is substandard care to stay alive. They often must wait until their situation deteriorates to the point they must seek emergency room care — a situation many experts say is not only dangerous for the patient but increases  taxpayer costs.

“This is the wrong way to do dialysis if you’re trying to prolong someone’s life,” said Dr. Melissa Anderson, an Indianapolis nephrologist, a doctor who specializes in kidney disease.

It's a problem that exists in many cities nationwide; some have developed a localized approach to provide undocumented immigrants with dialysis. Others, like Indianapolis, are struggling to find a solution.

Here, many undocumented immigrants in Indianapolis have Health Advantage, a managed-care program offered by Eskenazi Health that covers most medical services, but not routine dialysis.

Eskenazi Health officials say they try to work with partners in the community, but many undocumented immigrants still find themselves without access to regular dialysis care.

Nor is it clear to everyone that the answer lies in public safety net hospitals such as Eskenazi. The national Coalition for Kidney Care for Non-Citizens has issued a statement that all health care professionals and health systems have "a collective ethical obligation" to ensure that everyone has access to standard medical care, such as maintenance dialysis or kidney transplants.

"That’s really the big issue that I have always tried to get at — whose responsibility is it,” said Dr. Rajeev Raghavan, a Texas nephrologist and coalition member. “Unfortunately it really falls squarely on the shoulders of the safety net hospitals. I think it really is a national problem and should be tackled at the national level. … It kind of touches on a lot of things, such as what is the minimum standard of health care for everyone.”

Dialysis acts as an artificial kidney of sorts for people whose kidneys have ceased to function. One of the kidney’s chief roles is to clear toxins from the blood, which then get sent to the bladder, where toxins are disposed of in the urine. If your kidneys stop functioning, toxins build up, a potentially life-threatening condition.

That’s where the dialysis machine enters the picture. Doctors perform a minor procedure to create a fistula, which offers access to the patient’s blood vessels. The patient can then be hooked up to a machine that will remove blood from the body and do the work of filtering out the toxins. The blood is returned to the person’s body.

Studies have shown that undergoing dialysis on a regular schedule is about three times less expensive than waiting to give it on an emergency basis, which requires additional lab tests and at times hospital admissions. For many patients, kidney transplants, also covered by the government for citizens, could prove an even better option.

Immigration lawyer Sarah Burrow has been trying to help her clients access regular dialysis care for about a decade. Most of these individuals arrived in the United States years before they had any inkling they would one day develop kidney disease.

“I’ve seen hundreds of people in this situation over the years,” said Burrow, an attorney with Lewis & Kappes. “It’s horribly sad that there are a number of people in our city who are waiting (for dialysis) until they’re horribly ill.”

One of her clients, a 46-year-old woman, moved here from Mexico in 2002, to help care for her sister, who had a brain tumor. After her sister died the following year, she raised her four nieces and nephews, all born in the United States. Two years ago, she was diagnosed with advanced kidney disease and started on dialysis.

Because she is not a citizen and has no private insurance, she can only receive dialysis when she get so sick she needs emergency care. Sometimes she goes as long as three weeks between sessions, Burrow said. Now, the nieces and nephews she helped raise, one of whom is in the National Guard, care for her.

“Here we have a woman who had no real choice but to come to the United States,” Burrow said.

About 30 people in Indianapolis fall into this category, Anderson estimates. Nationwide, there are an estimated 6,000 such individuals, according to the Society for General Internal Medicine.

The Coalition for Kidney Care advocates for change but does not provide specifics as to how it should be accomplished. Forcing these patients to return to their homelands is not the answer; few countries have the highly developed dialysis care found in the United States.

For health providers who treat these patients, the situation can be nothing short of wearying.

“It’s really hard on everybody involved with their care. Most providers feel a sense of social injustice in the sense we want them to get better care,” said Anderson, who cared for these patients at Eskenazi. “Nobody involved with this feels good about it. Everybody feels bad about it.”

Doctors say do not foresee a flood of immigrants entering the state seeking dialysis should a system arise to make regularly scheduled dialysis available to those who are not citizens.

A 2011 study of Texas noncitizens receiving dialysis found that 6 percent knew they had kidney disease before they left their home country. On average, the patients had spent 35 percent or more of their lives in the United States before needing dialysis. 

Cities that more readily offer regular dialysis have not reported seeing people come to the United States illegally to seek care.

Plus, there are ways to prevent an influx from undocumented immigrants, Burrow said, such as offering this benefit to those who have resided in the United States for a set period of time.

Some undocumented patients here do receive regular dialysis.

St. Vincent Health provides such treatment to “several” undocumented patients, said Dr. Richard Fogel, the hospital system’s chief clinical officer. More than one and fewer than 20 patients receive this benefit as part of the money the hospital spends on charity care, he said.

“We feel it’s part of our mission,” he said. “So far we haven’t said no to anybody. … We don’t think it’s right for these individuals to wait for the state of there being an emergency.”

Many of the undocumented immigrants Burrow has encountered, however, live far from St. Vincent. Eskenazi is where they receive their care.

In addition, she said, she has worked with a lawful permanent resident, not eligible for the government's end stage renal disease program, who tried unsuccessfully to receive outpatient dialysis at St. Vincent.

"I believe people are being turned away from there, too," she said.

Without a license to perform outpatient dialysis, Eskenazi Health can provide dialysis only to patients with an emergency medical condition, hospital spokesman Todd Harper said in an email responding to questions about the approach that Indianapolis’ safety net hospital takes.

“Eskenazi Health works closely with all patients to explore options for them to receive needed services both through our health system and with other providers across the community,” he wrote. “Eskenazi Health continuously works with our many partners to identify possible solutions for these types of challenges.”

Throughout the U.S., different states, even different municipalities, have arrived at their own answers. In Texas, whose undocumented population is far higher than that of Indiana, a range of solutions exist.

San Antonio contracts with dialysis providers to cover the cost of regular treatment for those who lack papers, said Raghavan, an associate professor of Baylor College of Medicine, who has studied the issue. In Houston, where he works, Harris County operates its own outpatient facility that he says “is almost completely full of undocumented patients.”

Running one’s own facility, however, can be an expensive proposition if the majority of clients are undocumented and not eligible for government money. In 2009 Atlanta’s Grady Memorial Hospital closed its dialysis unit because it had become too costly to run as many of its patients were undocumented. After an uproar, the hospital eventually signed a contract with a major dialysis provider, Fresenius, to pay for regular dialysis for undocumented immigrants.

That, too, costs money, and it’s not clear who should bear the cost.

Meanwhile, people are still striving to access better care.

A few months ago a woman reached out to Burrow for help securing a Social Security number. The women moved here as a teenager from from Mexico, fleeing gangs, she said in Spanish as Burrow interpreted for IndyStar. Five years ago, routine tests during her second pregnancy signaled a problem with her kidneys. Further testing showed she had been born with kidneys half the size of normal organs. Dialysis loomed.

For a few years, the woman, now 34, eked by, using Health Advantage to provide her medical care. Then, three years ago, her doctors told her she needed routine dialysis. At that point, her husband, who also is undocumented, provided two made-up Social Security numbers to secure health insurance for her through his job. That health insurance has been covering the woman’s regular dialysis for the past three years.

Recently, her doctor recommended she look into a kidney transplant, noting her overall health makes the mother of two an ideal candidate. Burrow has had success applying for legal status for others facing similar medical needs. In this case, she argues that providing this woman, the mother of two children born here, with a Social Security number will help her get health insurance, a transplant, and eventually back into the workforce.

And it’s not likely that providing this woman with an organ would mean someone else on the list lost losing out. Her husband has said he’s willing to donate a kidney.

In order to do so, however, he, too, needs a Social Security number.

Call IndyStar reporter Shari Rudavsky at (317) 444-6354. Follow her on Twitter: @srudavsky.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/09/02/providing-kidney-care-noncitizens-wrong-way-dialysis-undocumented-immigrants/88625040/
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Charlie B53
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 06:05:53 AM »


Good article about a subject that most people, including myself, never imagined existed.

I have to admit that there are a number of people that would shrug and say deport them all.  And I have to grant them a certain amount of credit for the reasoning behind their beliefs.

HOWEVER, Humanity does not turn it's back on a fellow human in need of medical care that is proven to extend life.   Knowing these people will die without dialysis demands that as a Nation we must find a way to provide the basis dialysis necessary to maintain a reasonable existence.

We cannot afford to increase taxes.  But we can, and should charge our Legislators to stop wasting our tax dollars on non-productive measures that are passed to line the pockets of big business.  Trim the salaries of over-paid Legislators.  Cut the cushy benefits provided to Legislators and make those benefits more in line with those provided to the general working public.  The savings from these few acts would more than pay for the medical care of all these needy people.

But I doubt this will ever happen.  The 'Ruling Elite' think they deserve to continue to rob the public so they can enjoy their endowed lifestyle and continue to amass even more wealth.

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Simon Dog
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 06:55:47 AM »

I know I'm going to get slammed  for saying this, but the mere title of the article contains an assumption that should be debated as well as the subject in the article.

The question is not "How should undocumented immigrants get free dialysis?" but "Should undocumented immigrants get free dialysis?" or "Who should pay the bill for undocumented immigrant's dialysis?".

One can make an argument that people who choose to break the law by immigrating illegally should be returned to their home country which should bear the burden of dialysis care, or alternatively, offer to let the embassy of the illegal's home country pay the dialysis bill at a US facility.

The question is different for illegal immigrants who had no choice in the matter - most specifically people who were brought here as children and did not make their own choice to violate US law.

I wonder if someone who moved to Mexico, Brazil or Guatemala in violation of their immigration laws would get free dialysis thanks to the taxpayers of those countries.

To those who say we have a moral obligation - how should the US respond to someone applying for medical asylum because they cannot get free dialysis in their home country and cannot afford to pay for it?  How does denying someone a visa for the purpose of getting dialysis at the US taxpayer expense differ from denying dialysis to a criminal already present in the US?  (I am using the definition of "criminal" as "someone who breaks the law")
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 10:53:26 AM by Simon Dog » Logged
Charlie B53
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 08:33:43 AM »


No doubt this is or can be a touchy subject.  And BOTH sides of the argument do have very valid issues. 

May I make a sort of example.  An un-documented Mexican illegally enters the U.S. Gets a job using a false SS Number and works for many years.  Meets and lives with a woman, has children.  Raises them.  Later in his life becomes sick and learns he is ESRD.   NO insurance,  NO medical.  Nothing.

Worked his ass off for most of his life providing for his family, and now is sick and unable to recieve regular dialysis.

We have a large number of undocumented Americans.  We don't see or hear about them as they are busy getting on with every day life.  Raising their family.  Swept under the rug so to say, until someone gets terribly ill.

This was a productive person, for all intent and purpose trying just to be a normal guy.  Other than not getting any income tax return, which was taken from his pay.  Social Security was taken, but he gets no benefit.

What to do?

And this is happening every day.


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Simon Dog
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 10:55:25 AM »

An un-documented Mexican illegally enters the U.S. Gets a job using a false SS Number and works for many years.
An undocumented Mexican CHOOSES to violate the laws of this country, suffers from the consequences of his/her choice, and now it's our problem.  I guess I am missing something here.

As a US citizen on Medicare, with private insurance that does not cover out of country dialysis, I an constrained from long term international travel unless I arrange to pay for my care.  I cannot expect any other country to "give it to me for free" simply because I am within their borders and need it.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 10:57:25 AM by Simon Dog » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 11:49:48 AM »

 :rant; Simon Dog I have to agree with you. I am strongly against breaking the law. That said illegal is just that. In my state we heave a law that says we are to care for the medically ill dialysis patient like he is you or I. I pay for my private insurance and have work as well as my family and we have pd for Medicare. Our treatment for CCPD EVERY DAY cost 2,400.00 Plus the 489.00 monthly visit to the Dr  required by Medicare or my ins I can not remember which. All of the blood work is also pd. Ect. Our government is bankrupting our country with the things Charlie 853 speaks of. So we won't be changing any of that real soon as we all know. So we "break the moral law" as well when we allow this to happen to our country. I know Morally we meed to be compassionate but why are we the country that is when others are not? I say my moral responsibility is to send them home on our dime. We will be broke as the other countries grow. What will happen to us then? Just my thoughts
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 03:33:12 PM »

Side Note: Social Security Numbers are stolen, bought and sold every day. Every time a stolen SSN is used, it really screws up a person's life.  >:D Laws should not apply to some people and not others.
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 04:27:46 PM »

If a undocumented alien has paid their share of taxes then they should be treated.  One of the unspoken facts about aliens is if taxed and many are they receive no Benifits for these taxes but their money is used to fund everyone else. In all fairness if they have contributed they should be treated.  If they did not pay taxes they should move back home for treatment.
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Charlie B53
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2016, 05:21:11 AM »


Thank you Michael.  Granted no every illegal contributes, there are many working strickly for cash.  Those people contribute nothing but any sales tax they may pay at the till.

Those people using a SS# ARE paying taxes.  They are NOT filing to receive an income tax return, the Government just keeps that money.  They ARE paying into SS, and THAT money just goes into the SS Fund which Congress robs and does NOT repay. 

Determining those persons that have contributed, even though it may have been illegal contributions because of the false SS#'s still need compassionate care.   They have seriously tried to be productive citizens even though they are illegals.   They have tried to earn their way.

Lumping ALL illegals into the same pot isn't the answer.

I have to admit I may be slightly biased.  I have a Niece that fell in love with an illegal.  They have been together almost 20 years, raised a couple of fine children.  He made one serious mistake, got deported, was back with her within a week.  Married to her, he is still not granted a green card because of that one felony so he is in constant fear of arrest and deportation.  But this guy works his ass off to provide for her and the kids.  Though is is an illegal I have to commend his commitment to her and fully accept him as Family.
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2016, 05:42:30 PM »

An illegal may pay taxes when they shop at a store but if they are paying income taxes to the IRS how then, did they obtain a Social Security Number if they are here illegally?
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Husband had ESRD with Type I Diabetes -Insulin Dependent.
I was his care-partner for home hemodialysis using Nxstage December 2013-July 2016.
He went back to doing in-center July 2016.
After more than 150 days of being hospitalized with complications from Diabetes, my beloved husband's heart stopped and he passed away 06-08-21. He was only 63.
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2016, 07:14:45 PM »

If memory serves me the irs will issue a tax id to them to use in tax forms or they make one up.  But they pay in many cases with out any benefits from their payments.  Irs only checks if you are requesting a refund. 
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2016, 09:57:07 PM »

When Dialysis gets so expensive that Medicare goes broke, and DaVita and the other's close their doors.....

Not only the illegals, but all of us will not get dialysis.  There will be a boat full of people and only one machine.  Who do we throw overboard?  The Fricken' Illegals!   

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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2016, 02:38:25 PM »

At my center almost half of the patients don't speak English.  Many are illegals, and no, they don't pay.  That's wrong.
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2016, 02:44:35 PM »

Quote
He made one serious mistake, got deported
Care to share what his "mistake" was?    My guess it was a "bad decision", not a "mistake".
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Charlie B53
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2016, 08:21:43 AM »


Felony DWI.  Right, poor decision that many people make.  Fortunately no one injured.   I seriously doubt he will ever make that mistake again.  He is one that does learn from his errors.
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Michael Murphy
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2016, 01:59:37 PM »

Remember most illegals pay taxes, get no benefits but pay taxes.  If they are paying taxes they should get dialysis like every one else.  If they are working off the books the should go home for treatment. 
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2016, 02:59:22 PM »


Felony DWI.  Right, poor decision that many people make.  Fortunately no one injured.   I seriously doubt he will ever make that mistake again.  He is one that does learn from his errors.
Wow, that does indeed qualify as a big mistake instead of evil intent.   Usually first offense DWIs are given a non-felony disposition.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2016, 04:35:18 PM »

There are a lot of issues wrapped up in this story.

What constantly amazes me is that there are people in this country, including those born here, who are denied all sort of lifesaving medical treatment for all sorts of issues other than dialysis due to lack of insurance or money. As this article said, providing the preventive treatments instead of waiting until they are at death's door and have to go in to the ICU to die (and then that bill not get paid because the family can't pay it either) is more cost effective in the long run. Then there is the insane cost of anything medical in this country... I understand paying for what something is worth, but I don't understand how a handful of pills can be over $1k a month.

As far as the illegal immigrant issue is concerned, I know my great-great-grandparents would have been in that same boat (literally) when they came over from Poland. They hid under the radar for a generation and worked their tails off to provide a better future for their family that didn't involve Russia trying to get them. How little things change over time... Like it or not, our country is rooted in the notion that people can come here and make a better tomorrow.

There are no easy answers, and whatever ends up being the solution is bound to make some people unhappy. I think if America is going to claim to be as great and wonderful as we like to say we are (and we are) then we should set the example to be followed.
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2016, 05:57:38 PM »

Quote
we should set the example to be followed.
As a starter, I would give illegals in the US treatment no better than our citizens would receive if illegally in the country these people came from.

If, for example, Mexico will not give a US citizen living in Mexico free dual-language education; free medical care; a housing allowance and an EBT card, then don't give any of that to an illegal immigrant from that country living in the US.

It's setting the example of not being a sucker.
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« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2016, 01:26:25 PM »

If memory serves me the irs will issue a tax id to them to use in tax forms or they make one up.  But they pay in many cases with out any benefits from their payments.  Irs only checks if you are requesting a refund.

Look up what a SAR (suspicious activity report) is. People would be shocked to learn of all the Social Security Numbers and TIN's (tax ID numbers) out there that have been stolen and used to apply for credit or a job or other reasons requiring a SSN or TIN. Even SSN's of dead people show up on credit reports. The credit report will state that the number being used belongs to that of a deceased person. It is a huge red flag. In many cases, a SSN will be stolen and sold many times to many different people wanting a fake ID. One has to wonder how people using stolen ID's were able to register to vote.
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Husband had ESRD with Type I Diabetes -Insulin Dependent.
I was his care-partner for home hemodialysis using Nxstage December 2013-July 2016.
He went back to doing in-center July 2016.
After more than 150 days of being hospitalized with complications from Diabetes, my beloved husband's heart stopped and he passed away 06-08-21. He was only 63.
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2017, 07:42:08 AM »

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) Personally I resent it when I go the kidney center and hear nothing but spanish in the waiting room.  I don't believe illegals pay their fair share of taxes.  Most of them work for cash.  I feel guilty about the money spent on keeping me alive even though I've always paid for my health insurance.  I don't believe in giving people expensive treatments for free.  America is deep in debt.  We borrow to continue each day, and soon it will catch up to us.  We can't afford to pay for the treatment of our own let alone illegal aliens.
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Jean
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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2017, 09:09:14 AM »


When or if the US crashes, due to the stupidity of our former (many) administrators, then who pays for our dialysis?? I have never understood the people who long to live in America, who go thru tremendous danger to get here and then never assimilate. They wont learn to use our language, they cant join our military and they want to live as they did in Mexico. Why do they never become citizens?  Why dont they stay in their own country and take their own country back from the gangs and the controvertial types of people there. They have to know we would help them. Please dont tell me they are too gentle to fight, I would have to   :puke; !!  I am so grateful to be an American and I would love it if the people born in other countries want to come here and become citizens and take on at least, most of our ways. Welfare was not meant for people of other countries, it was meant for us. We are paying for it and I dont mind paying for American citizens, but I do mind knowing there are lots of foreigners who draw money out of a system that they never put a dime into.
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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2017, 11:41:30 AM »

Forget the wall.

Mexico should reimburse the US for the free medical care, welfare assistance, dual language education, etc. provided to their illegal immigrants.  In return, the US should reimburse Mexico for the generous benefits it bestows on those illegally in Mexico from the US.
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Jean
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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2017, 02:30:39 PM »



HaHa, Simon Dog says "reimburse the US"
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« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2017, 03:40:47 PM »

Just because people are speaking Spanish doe not mean they are illegal. Just go to any city in the Southwest and you will find many people who prefer to speak Spanish even though their family has been here for one or more generations.
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