War on Cops

[MooseMom]

It has got to be even harder to be a cop in an open carry state.  As the Dallas police chief said, they don't know which are the "good guys with a gun" and which are the "bad guys with a gun".

[Simon Dog]

Trust me, my CCW Permit was always on TOP of my drivers license, registration, etc.

Mine are readily accessible (I need a bunch to cover the New England states), but positioned so they are never visible when I open my wallet.  I know of a case where a driver in NY was hassled because the copy recognized the CT carry permit in his wallet when he opened it for his drivers license.

[Charlie B53]

It really bothers me to learn of a VETERAN CCW holder that has done bad things.   We Veterans often seem to hold to a much higher standard than many 'civilians'.   So to hear of one of 'us' go sour, well, let's just say we expected better of him.   Sad.

I can't speak for many Cops.  I know very few, and most of them only in passing.   But SOME of the Cops do seem to recognise the Honor and willingness of Veterans.

I am almost surprised at the life this thread has.  The responses.  It's likek I struck something, opened a channel that has needed attention for a long time.

This is my first appearance in 'Politics' as I tend to stay well away from both politics and Religion.  People can get very wound very fast.   I didn't expect this here, but sort of glad I did.   Everyone needs to be heard.

[PrimeTimer]

I've had a gun pulled on me twice. First thought was "someone please call the police!"

I'll bet you are white.  If you were black, you would be thinking "I hope these cops doni't shoot".

Doesn't matter. When things go south people are wanting the police. They've been there for me plenty of times. I was also taught to respect cops and if ever pulled over, to cooperate and be respectful. Color had nothing to do with that. Heck, I was taught not to even call them cops but to refer to them as police officers. Met some nices ones and not-so-nice ones. I've been written tickets, I've been "hassled", had one draw his gun on me by mistake and I've even been put in a police car. They may have feared me as much as I feared them in a situation. Never had a reason to hate them tho. My refrigerator door bares the namecard/businesscard of a SWAT member. It offers me a little comfort whenever the world seems too ugly because I know they are only a phonecall away.     

[MooseMom]

PrimeTimer, color does matter.  The statistics prove it.  There are too many black people who fear the police so much that calling them in times of trouble is the last thing they would do.  It's great that the police have been there for you plenty of times, but that is not the experience of every American.

Black youngsters are taught to be respectful, too, because their parents know that if they are not, they might get killed. 

We have to understand that our own personal experiences with the police do not necessarily mirror the experiences of people who live in different circumstances, have a different color of skin, dress differently, or speak a different language.  We have to look beyond the tips of our own noses and quit denying that people of non-white races see and experience interactions with police in a different way.

[PrimeTimer]

I happened upon this article written by John Gibbs. Additionally, I think a comment on Sheriff David Clarke's twitter said something similar; "Stop trying to fix the police, fix the ghetto". I think this is the same message Dallas Police Chief Dave Brown was trying to say when he told the protesters "join us, we're hiring".

http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/11/if-you-dont-want-police-to-shoot-you-dont-resist-arrest/

[Rerun]

Richard Sherman from the Seattle Seahawks addresses 'black lives matter'   

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/9/16/9340851/nfl-richard-sherman-seattle-seahawks-video-black-lives-matter


Take care of black on black murders first.

[kickingandscreaming]

I prefer looking at this point of view.  It's the system that is corrupt and it doesn't serve anyone--the public or the cops.

Others have written about the history of policing in the United States — especially in the South — and its roots in the slave patrol. So it should come as no great leap to consider that participating in policing in 21st century America could scar one’s soul.

This is not about being an apologist for the individuals responsible for the killing of black life. It is not about comparing the suffering of black communities to that of law enforcement. But in nonviolence, we know that if you don’t understand the perspective of those who you are in conflict with, you do not understand the conflict. You do not need to agree with, excuse or justify the other’s perspective, you simply need to understand it so you can see the complete picture.

And part of the picture looks like this: Cops are human. They work for an institution with historical ties to slavery and a long legacy of racism. They are indoctrinated in a culture of “us vs. them,” of doing “whatever is necessary so you get home,” of fear, distrust, and dehumanization of those deemed as being on “the other side.” They are taught to fear for their lives. They are trained almost exclusively in tactics of violence and repression. They are sent into situations of conflict every day with those limited tools, into communities where they are playing out tensions that have been brewing for hundreds of years.

Looking at that picture, no one should be surprised at incidents of police violence, and we should all understand that to some extent, it is rooted in the spiritual and emotional degradation that results from being immersed in such a violent institution.

I’ve been thinking lately about Eric Casebolt, the officer who responded to a call at a pool party in McKinney, Texas and proceeded to throw a young girl onto the ground and point his gun at other teenagers.

Casebolt should have been fired immediately, and his record should follow him everywhere, preventing him from ever having employment as a cop or even as a security guard.

If we look more into the history of that conflict, the story of Casebolt’s own trauma begins to emerge. The pool party was the third call that he attended to that day. His first was a suicide where he witnessed a man blow his head off in front of his family, and had to console the family. Immediately after, he was called to another attempted suicide, where he had to talk a young girl down from jumping off a ledge — also in front of her family. By the time he reached the pool party, he was an emotional wreck.

Again, that’s not to excuse his actions as an individual. But understanding that context and perspective also allows us to point our fingers at the larger culprit: a system of policing that didn’t care enough about Casebolt’s mental health that they couldn’t even give him the rest of the day off. A culture of machismo that doesn’t give space for cops like Casebolt to grieve or process what he just went through.

When the system comes together to defend cops like Casebolt, their defense of him is a smokescreen. The system doesn’t care about any individuals — the individuals are dispensable. It is trying to distract us from the fact that the system itself is corrupt. If the system truly cared about the people who work in the system, it would create fundamental changes to stop the killings of black people, thereby decreasing the chances of retaliatory killings like the ones in Dallas.

But for us, the more we focus our anger on the individual who pulled the trigger, the more we are letting the system off the hook. And the more the system defends the individual, the more we want to see him or her locked up, as if they are the problem. Hook, line and sinker.

Individual accountability requires healing, and a space for the perpetrator of the harm to feel remorse for their actions. I’ve learned over time that people can’t empathize with the pain that they caused until their own pain and story has been honored. So, can we build a movement that honors the pain of the officers, creates spaces to help them see the pain that they cause, and — following the example of former Baltimore officer Michael Wood — allows them to defect from a system that doesn’t serve them either?

And can we hold that level of compassion without pacifying our righteous indignation towards a system that doesn’t value human life? How do we build a fierce and powerful resistance movement that addresses the individual and the system? What does it look like to hold individuals accountable with compassion, and systems accountable with indignation?

#AltonSterling, #PhilandoCastile and #Dallas are sobering reminders that violent institutions are causing human death on all sides. And until we find justice for all people, their spirits will be with us, nudging us to answer those questions.

http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/policing-isnt-working-for-cops-either/

[Rerun]

It is like saying cigarettes kill more men then women.  And blaming the doctors for their lung cancer diagnosis.  When in fact more men smoke them than women do.

If there are more blacks in trouble and in jail....?  Well, use your deductive reasoning....  We pay the police to protect us from the bad.  Do we really want them coming to a convenience store robbery in progress and see the robbers and LEAVE because they are oppressed and don't know better?  Really?

Is that what BLM is protesting about?  Just leave us the hell alone? 

[kristina]

We pay the police to protect us from the bad. 

... Unfortunately, I am not overly sure about that anymore ... Here in London we have almost lost faith in the police ... and whenever there is a "headline" case, if Scotland Yard gets involved, there does not seem to be a chance to find out what actually happened and the culprit does not seem to be found either ... If I ever need some urgent investigation (hopefully never, touch wood!!!!), I would go straight to a private investigator because I am not sure I would have enough faith in Scotland Yard to help me ... Such is life... 

[Charlie B53]

For the majority of crimes, Policing as re-active, well after the fact.  Although some crimes are solved the vast majority are not.

Crimes in progress, are met with violence.  Sometimes far in excess of what may have been necessary.  Granted, when a perp has a weapon out it is totally different. 

But what about those 'other contacts'?  The ones that start as a simple traffic stop and end up with the driver, or passenger, shot and killed.  But for all those many cases where NO weapon was displayed, an Officer fires and claims he 'thought' he saw a weapon.  That is enough for the 'System' to exonerate the killing of a person that most likely was NOT a threat.

These are the situations the Administration needs to address.  Psych training and evaluations to determine those paranoid officers most likely to KILL innocent civilians need to be identified and REMOVED from public contact.

How do we bring about this type of change?

[Simon Dog]

"[the law is] powerless to help you, not powerless to punish you" - Chief Wiggims

[Rerun]

Who the hell is Chief Wiggims? 

                 

[Michael Murphy]

Head cop on the Simsons.  The cop who shot the Cafeteria manager works for a department that patrols a mostly white city yet the number of police interactions with Blacks is very high.  Most of the interactions are traffic stops.  This is part of a broken window theory of policing.  Stop the small crimes and you reduce the big ones.  In this case the result is a part of the population that is black is just plain hassled in their daily travels.  How often do the police stop you the Black Cafeteria Manager was stopped 52 times in the last 10 years that's every 2 months.  What appears to have happened is the Cop want paying any attention to what was said to him, missed the statement that there was a license to carry involved, (for the record his family has produced the paper work and the Sherriff that signed it verified is was real.). Paniced  when he saw the gun and shot down a guy in his car who was doing every thing right,  people want to justify this by pointing out black on black crime, but the cops are there to protect all people not just the whites.  I think any black male has reason to be terrified any time he has any interaction with a cop because there have been just to many mistaken, accidental shootings. 

[Bill Peckham]

I think this article is good http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/black-lives-matter-and-white-backlash-ideology.html   It gives a strong rebultal to conservatives pointing to Black Lives Matter activists, President Obama, black crime in general, as being a larger problem then racism against African-Americans .

Racial disparities in law enforcement does not begin and end with unjust shootings  ... in some zip codes if you are a black male, getting roughed up by police is a nearly universal experience. How many times would that have to happen to you before you were out protesting?

Donald Trump claimed that people - "some people" - called for a moment of silence for mass killer Micah Johnson, the blow'd up killer of five police officers. The first time anyone heard about a moment of silence for the killer was when Donald Trump brought it up.  What the hell is this if not racial incitement? He's making statements completely fabricated for the sole purpose of inciting fear in the 30% of Americans supporting his candidacy.

At a speech today he said “The other night you had 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. Marches all over the United States—and tough marches. Anger. Hatred. Hatred! Started by a maniac! And some people ask for a moment of silence for him. For the killer!”


Read that again - he's saying the marches were for the killer. That the maniacs are marching. ... words are failing me , despicable, horrid, dangerous, evil ...


There is really only one person who is out of control since all the tragic events and he is the one who will be on center stage in Cleveland. It beggars belief.

[Charlie B53]

Isn't this what they call, 'Political Spin'?      Twist the truth and facts to support a position?     And the general public falls for it every time.

[MooseMom]

Isn't this what they call, 'Political Spin'?      Twist the truth and facts to support a position?     And the general public falls for it every time.

This comment is called "denial"?  And the general public falls for it every time.

This comment is also called "distraction from the issue at hand".  And the general public falls for it every time, too.

[Rerun]

Distraction from Crocked Hillary's lies.

           

[kickingandscreaming]

I wish I could be distracted from fraudulent Don the Con's lies and venom.

[Simon Dog]

I wish I could be distracted from fraudulent Don the Con's lies and venom.

You can be certain - we will have a sleazy liar in the whitehouse next term no matter who wins.  Ds and Rs tend to ignore the transgressions of the candidate on their side, but that does not make him/her any less sleazy.

I think any black male has reason to be terrified any time he has any interaction with a cop because there have been just to many mistaken, accidental shootings.

Absolutely.  And, the black can be assured if he is shot it will either be "an accident for which criminal charges are not appropriate", or "justified based on a furtive movement".

Can you imagine a Trump/Gingrich ticket?

I'd like to see Grover Norquist in #2, but I don't think he is on the short list.

[MooseMom]

I wish I could be distracted from fraudulent Don the Con's lies and venom.

No chance of that.  Donald Trump is a whiney little child who will never stop doing whatever he can to get attention.

Can you imagine a Trump/Gingrich ticket?  It was Gingrich who single handedly ruined the political climate of this country.  Older Congressional Republicans remember.  But that's for another thread.

[MooseMom]

I wish I could be distracted from fraudulent Don the Con's lies and venom.

You can be certain - we will have a sleazy liar in the whitehouse next term no matter who wins.  Ds and Rs tend to ignore the transgressions of the candidate on their side, but that does not make him/her any less sleazy.

I don't think anyone ignores any transgressions of these two candidates!  How is that even possible unless you are living under a rock?  Leaders of both of these parties are only all too cognizant of the baggage these two bring to the table.

[kickingandscreaming]

You can be certain - we will have a sleazy liar in the whitehouse next term no matter who wins.

That's why I supported Bernie Sanders.  One of the few politicians out there with any integrity.

Can you imagine a Trump/Gingrich ticket?

Some things just hurt my imagination.  This is one of them.  Two preening narcissists.  One  (or maybe both) also a sociopath.  And possibly a sexual predator.

[Xplantdad]

Do some investigation on Bill Clinton's years growing up (hint: His original last name wasn't Clinton) and you might understand why he does...what he does with women.

As far as the rest of this stuff...we're in a no win situation with the candidates at hand....and on this board, like everywhere else (Facebook and all other social media) you have people-some who have been friends forever-arguing about why their selection is better....like that's going to change anyone's mind.

Here's a thought...let's all get along and maybe do this with everyone else!

[Charlie B53]

Trump announced his running mate today.   A Governor, but I already forgot which state and his name.  Small laugh.  As if I pay any attention to ANY of them.

Gov Nixon here in Missouri signed a bill into law limiting the % of income cities can make off of Police ticketing.  Supposedly this will end the act of 'quotas' at the end of the month.    I expect just the opposite.   Police may just go on a rampage ticketing anyone and everyone all month long.   Each City will just revise their budget, inflate it more so the % they are allowed from the tickets will be higher.   The excess revenues from each city are to be credited into the State General Fund.    Careful driving in Missouri from now on.   Where the State Patrol have previously NOT been ticketing for 10 - 15 over on rural freeways, I am not counting on that any longer.   I usually have my radar ON but I tend not to pay enough attention as there are so many false signals, purposely set out by the state to help control speeds, and it does make a difference to some.   I need to start getting around earlier and slow down, a little.