Cantor eats it!!!

[Hemodoc]

Anyone over the age of 50 can account incredible freedoms compared to the kids of today. 

If you had predicted any of the following 15 years ago, you would have been considered part of the tinfoil hat crowd:

- Secret US prisons overseas
- Secret dockets in every federal court
- Holding of US citizens by the military without a trial
- National Security Letters - subpoenas issued directly by law enforcement, that you cannot even disclose except to your attorney

Sorry, why do you think that? The BIble predicted exactly the DIRECTION we are headed about 2000 years ago. I was saved in 1994 while I was in the military. Yes, we had those "tinfoil" hat conversations as you call it back in 1994 with the man who led me to The Lord. Not the specifics, but the direction, absolutely. Sadly, much more to come in that direction.

[Gerald Lively]

Jesus was a Liberal.
If you have time, look up the names of the KJV translators.  You will find my eight great grandfather.

[Hemodoc]

Jesus was a Liberal.
If you have time, look up the names of the KJV translators.  You will find my eight great grandfather.

Yup, that line will work well Gerald. But, no, I would state categorically that The Lord would not put up with the nonsense in Washington D.C. today. But if you want to think of him as a liberal, go for it.  Or perhaps I should reveal our secret Teabagger plans to have you arrested for making such an outlandish statement. Any black helicopters over head?

And yes, you have shown the connection in the past to the KJV.   Wouldn't hurt to pick up that good book and read it if that is you don't already.

[MooseMom]

On the other hand, I would rather that that this nation choose a godly path, but I am afraid America as a godly nation is long since past. You can't legislate morality, remember, I stated that above once already.

I, too, would like to see this nation choose a more godly path, but I fear that there are forces within that aim to distract us from the true evil that is afoot by hot debate about pot, abortion and gays.

I'd like to see more godly behavior from big banking, big pharma, big agriculture, big healthcare, big defense, big energy and big anything else that puts profit above responsible and moral and, yes, "godly" action.

I fear that we find ourselves HAVING to legislate morality because we can no longer trust anyone to refrain from defrauding and bullying and stealing from the most vulnerable of our citizens.  We shouldn't have to have more rules and regulations.  We WOULDN"T have to have so much red tape if more people with financial and political influence followed a more "godly" path.  We shouldn't have to have hundreds of laws that protect people from abuse or retaliation or attack or discrimination or outright fraud and theft.

"Morality" goes far beyond matters of sex and drugs and rock and roll. 

Like you, Hemodoc, I'm beginning to despair of the state of our nation.  There just doesn't seem to be many people of power and influence who have good hearts.  It makes me sad.

[MooseMom]

But, no, I would state categorically that The Lord would not put up with the nonsense in Washington D.C. today. .

I agree with this.  I would also state categorically that most Americans don't want to put up with the nonsense in DC today, and I don't care with which party one may be affiliated.

But if anyone is tired of it all, they have to go out and vote.  We can't be complacent.  That's what DC is counting on...the politicians and the lobbyists.

[Simon Dog]

Anyone over the age of 50 can account incredible freedoms compared to the kids of today. 

If you had predicted any of the following 15 years ago, you would have been considered part of the tinfoil hat crowd:

- Secret US prisons overseas
- Secret dockets in every federal court
- Holding of US citizens by the military without a trial
- National Security Letters - subpoenas issued directly by law enforcement, that you cannot even disclose except to your attorney

Sorry, why do you think that? The BIble predicted exactly the DIRECTION we are headed about 2000 years ago. I was saved in 1994 while I was in the military. Yes, we had those "tinfoil" hat conversations as you call it back in 1994 with the man who led me to The Lord. Not the specifics, but the direction, absolutely. Sadly, much more to come in that direction.

I think that because, like many, I received my education in a public obedience indoctrination center (also known as a public school), and we were all taught innocent until proven guilty; everyone is entitled to a fair trial; and you are protected from govt searches unless law enforcement has probable cause and gets a warrant.

It doesn't take much of a tinfoil hat to suspect that the govt is behind Truecrypt shutting down, and the demise of Lavasoft (though no speculation is required for the later)

[Gerald Lively]

Catholic school.  I have knuckles shaped flat like one gets from corporal punishment with a ruler.  "Gerald, you have too many infractions in the book for hands up."  Everyday we prayed to the flag and said our prayers.  I even remember when the Pledge of Allegiance was made with a Nazi salute.
Regarding the Minerva program, which you did not read, my military career was spent on loan to the NSA.
The Bible:  Jesus instructed Christians to care for the sick, feed the hungry, and to pay unto Cesar what is Cesar's (taxes).  Our constitution says similar virtues out to be followed.  Only conservatives have difficulty with that.  The very idea of government came from a belief that together we can survive better than as individuals.  Only in modern times has the focus changed from the people to corporate interests.  And where did that come from?  Only the "people" are mentioned in the constitution.  There isn't even a hot breath that says corporations.
HemoDoc likes European definitions of fascism, it suits his needs.  Consider how Mussolini described fascism; "When government and Corporations join to make public policy."  'Tis you, Doc, who has succumbed to propaganda.  A little introspective thing may reveal that you cannot do anything to advance your quality of life without government permission.  You need a permit, payment of taxes, a certificate or registration, hells bells, driving on a road is not a right, it is a privilege. 
On your corruption statement:  Yes, Congress is corrupt.  Examine the effect of campaign contributions.  Have you noticed that most congressmen became millionaires "after" they are elected?  And yes, the NSA has a record of everything you ever said on any device using electricity.  During the 1980s I tried to leave the US, sailing, never to return.  I couldn't get a passport on that basis, my clearance and experience was too much.  In 1987 I quit, retiring at age 48. 
HemoDoc, your perspective is too narrow and your history recollections are too recent.  You need to sort out what is real from what is not.

[Hemodoc]

Dear Gerald, I have had a love of history for quite some time and in fact with one more class would have had a minor in history in college. How far back do you want to go?

Secondly, who stated I "liked" the definition of fascism pertaining to Mussolini. I simply wanted to have YOU define your terms. That is all since there are quite a few definitions of fascism available. In addition, I gave the perspective that the American right and the European right are two different things entirely. Conservatives once again are looking for limited governmental powers which is the opposite of fascism.

Thirdly, I have paid over a million dollars in taxes to date and counting. The conservative people I know pay their taxes. That is not what the issue is. The issue is what does this ungodly government do with those good monies? That is the debate not some sort of tax revolt issue. Spending is the issue.

Fourth, all you have spouted so far to all of my posts on this thread are left wing propaganda points. You have yet to engage in a debate on these issues. Who is narrow minded Gerald. As I have stated many times over, I am NOT defending the GOP in any manner. Yet instead of addressing the points I have made, you continue on some sort of crusade against the GOP. Oh well, what ever you wish, I guess I am simply serving as your sounding board.

As far as Jesus instructions. Quick question. How did God state He would provide for the sick, the hungry and the needy? Yes, through TITHES and OFFERINGS. Jesus never endorsed any government social program. Instead he looked men in their eyes and stated it was THEIR duty to give. If you look at the stats on congressional giving, the conservatives by far give more to charity than the DEMS. Just look at Mitt and Barack. Who gave more to charity year after year nothing to say of what Joe Biden gave. Yes, Dems are quite generous with OTHER peoples money, but not their own. Jesus would take great exception to that.

Who is it that runs soup kitchens throughout this nation? Look at the history of medical care in the US and who was it that provided care to the poor and diminished up until the time of Johnson's great society? Sorry, but your points are lacking in depth Gerald.

So, many Christians pay their taxes to Caesar AND give unto The Lord. I would venture to state that many liberals proclaim taking your money to soothe their consciences but in fact, do they give directly themselves. The people I know answer that affirmatively.

In addition, Jesus addressed the issue of taxes and who it is that Caesar taxes in the first place:

Matthew 17: 24  And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and sadi, Doth not your master pay tribute?

17:25  He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

17:26  Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

17:27: Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


So, historically, Jesus understand the benefits of withholding taxation to the friends of Caesar. Has anything changed today? The list of Obama contributors such as GE that paid nothing in taxes while earning billions of dollars shows that in fact nothing has changed. That is called cronyism.  Obama is a master at it. Perhaps you would like to address those issues or perhaps you will just keep spewing left wing propaganda.

In any case, have a good day Gerald. It is my birthday tomorrow and I get as a special present to have a date with my favorite "little" girl tonight. She always cherishes these moments as do I. I would venture that is more important than anything that will follow on this thread tonight.

See you in the morning Gerald.

[Gerald Lively]

HemoDoc:  My participation in this thread ends here with this post.
Early on here, you dismissed an NSA program, Minerva (and a half-dozen related programs) as propaganda.  There is no way possible to prove to you how wrong you are.  Typical of the modern conservative, facts are to be avoided.  Remember this, you heard it here and the day you discover that the local police are following you around town on a computer hooked into your cell phone, give me a call so I can say, "I told you so."  Perhaps I will be gone by that time.
A government that doesn't trust its citizens is not a democracy and is doomed to fail.

[Hemodoc]

HemoDoc:  My participation in this thread ends here with this post.
Early on here, you dismissed an NSA program, Minerva (and a half-dozen related programs) as propaganda.  There is no way possible to prove to you how wrong you are.  Typical of the modern conservative, facts are to be avoided.  Remember this, you heard it here and the day you discover that the local police are following you around town on a computer hooked into your cell phone, give me a call so I can say, "I told you so."  Perhaps I will be gone by that time.
A government that doesn't trust its citizens is not a democracy and is doomed to fail.

Oh baloney. Who said I dismissed anything. I have acknowledged BOTH sides are stealing our freedoms. You are voicing only a one sided argument. So be it. Not sure what you are trying to state since Obama and the Dems hold the power today and the NSA is bigger than ever under his time in office. In any case, have a great night Gerald.

[PrimeTimer]

Cantor may have eaten it but most of us have never swallowed what obama  has tried shoving down our throats tho, either. 'Nuff said.   

[Simon Dog]

The list of Obama contributors such as GE that paid nothing in taxes

GE generates a huge amount of productivity, and pays salaries that are heavily taxed.   To say GE "pays no taxes" is a somewhat irrelevant distinction.

[Hemodoc]

The list of Obama contributors such as GE that paid nothing in taxes

GE generates a huge amount of productivity, and pays salaries that are heavily taxed.   To say GE "pays no taxes" is a somewhat irrelevant distinction.

Yeah right. I guess cronyism is OK if it is Democratic friends of the president but corruption if it is corporations or people friendly to the GOP such as the Koch brothers. Yeah right, irrelevant alright.

[PrimeTimer]

The list of Obama contributors such as GE that paid nothing in taxes

GE generates a huge amount of productivity, and pays salaries that are heavily taxed.   To say GE "pays no taxes" is a somewhat irrelevant distinction.

Yeah right. I guess cronyism is OK if it is Democratic friends of the president but corruption if it is corporations or people friendly to the GOP such as the Koch brothers. Yeah right, irrelevant alright.

Ooh, the hypocrisy of Liberal Progressives and their Co-Exist bumper stickers.. 

[Hober Mallow]

The list of Obama contributors such as GE that paid nothing in taxes

GE generates a huge amount of productivity, and pays salaries that are heavily taxed.   To say GE "pays no taxes" is a somewhat irrelevant distinction.

Yeah right. I guess cronyism is OK if it is Democratic friends of the president but corruption if it is corporations or people friendly to the GOP such as the Koch brothers. Yeah right, irrelevant alright.

It's not okay, but GE got out of paying taxes during the Bush administration as well. In fact, literally *everything* going on under Obama was going on under Bush. Were you complaining about it all then?