Government Shut-Down....

[Rerun]

Just VOTE no 101 reasons to back up your vote. 

           

[Rerun]

I'm winning so far!  LOL

[Hemodoc]

I'm winning so far!  LOL

Way to go Rerun, guess what my votes was?

[MooseMom]

 Who in government ISN'T to blame?

These kinds of questions don't help to unite us.  The rest of the world is laughing at us while we are all pointing fingers at each other.

Actually, since this is government for the people and by the people, we are all to blame.

[Hemodoc]

Who in government ISN'T to blame?

These kinds of questions don't help to unite us.  The rest of the world is laughing at us while we are all pointing fingers at each other.

Actually, since this is government for the people and by the people, we are all to blame.

Sorry, I won't accept that. I am not at all to blame for this mess. This government especially since Obummer took over has not represented the people for quite a while.  How's this for representing the people of the US:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/08/2013-battle-yorktown-restaurant-owner-defies-feds/

[MooseMom]

I have been on the record here on IHD as being a supporter of the existence of these political threads.  I have enjoyed reading about people's views and have always been happy to engage in conversation with people who view the world very differently than I do.  That's part of the fun of being in a community.

But I have now changed my mind and will take this opportunity to say so.  The world feels so harsh these days, filled with people who so flippantly and casually speak in cutting tones, and I no longer want to participate. 

Have fun in the echo chamber.

Take care, and pick up your socks! 

[Bill Peckham]

Just VOTE no 101 reasons to back up your vote. 

It isn't really an open question, this has been the plan for months http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings


There is no mystery about this at all.

[Hemodoc]

Just VOTE no 101 reasons to back up your vote. 

It isn't really an open question, this has been the plan for months http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings


There is no mystery about this at all.

No doubt Bill, just as the DEMS have been planning for months as well too.  I thought the GOP hardline was a mistake, but now with Obama's really over the top tactics, the longer Obama punishes the nation, the better for the GOP. Let it continue. Let Obama continue to RULE. He is revealing his true colors.

[Bill Peckham]

No doubt Bill, just as the DEMS have been planning for months as well too.  I thought the GOP hardline was a mistake, but now with Obama's really over the top tactics, the longer Obama punishes the nation, the better for the GOP. Let it continue. Let Obama continue to RULE. He is revealing his true colors.

Are you talking about the national parks being closed?

Bohner is the one person who could end the shut down, all he has to do is allow the House to vote, he's the only one with the power to allow the vote.

[Hemodoc]

No doubt Bill, just as the DEMS have been planning for months as well too.  I thought the GOP hardline was a mistake, but now with Obama's really over the top tactics, the longer Obama punishes the nation, the better for the GOP. Let it continue. Let Obama continue to RULE. He is revealing his true colors.

Are you talking about the national parks being closed?

Bohner is the one person who could end the shut down, all he has to do is allow the House to vote, he's the only one with the power to allow the vote.

Bill, it is FAR more than just closing the national parks. Include private parks, hotels on Fed lands and people kicked out of homes on Fed property to start. Then, Obama is allowing an illegal alien amnesty rally but kicked the WWII vets out of town so to speak. No, the more heavy handed Obama gets, the more that will take up the rally for the GOP as poorly thought out their resistance as well. He is spending a LOT more money keeping people out of places that are quite remote with absolutely no need including hunting lands keeping many hunters out in various states as well.

He closed down the Grand Canyon even though the state and private individuals offered to cover all operating expenses. These are deliberate decisions Obama is making to increase the impact of the shutdown just as he did with the sequester. How well did closing the White House go for him a few months back? No, let it continue and let Obama get more heavy handed every day. Hopefully people will finally realize who this man really is.

[Hemodoc]

How about this OBAMA decision to deny death benefits to active duty troops killed since the shutdown. No need for this evil act at all. Just Obama making it "hurt."

http://www.today.com/news/shutdown-denies-death-benefits-families-fallen-soldiers-8C11355842

This is NBC. Messing with the military that has broad bipartisan support is simply stupid. Let Obama show his true colors.

[Hober Mallow]

I have been on the record here on IHD as being a supporter of the existence of these political threads.  I have enjoyed reading about people's views and have always been happy to engage in conversation with people who view the world very differently than I do.  That's part of the fun of being in a community.

But I have now changed my mind and will take this opportunity to say so.  The world feels so harsh these days, filled with people who so flippantly and casually speak in cutting tones, and I no longer want to participate. 

Have fun in the echo chamber.

Take care, and pick up your socks! 

It really is sad when people willingly surrender to ideology.

How about this OBAMA decision to deny death benefits to active duty troops killed since the shutdown.

Right. Obama decided... LOL.

House Republicans need to decide what's more important to them now: acting like a bunch of petulant children or getting back to work and putting a stop to the needless suffering of innocent people. I think I already know their answer.

The new meme among Republicans now is that default isn't going to be all that bad. I guess we'll all see if and when they fail to raise the debt ceiling. One thing's for sure -- this is a PR disaster for Republicans.

John Podhoretz, speechwriter for Reagan and Bush I, is calling it Republican suicide.

Every piece of evidence we have so far on the government shutdown shows the public is blaming Republicans most of all for the standoff.
snip

...

If ObamaCare had been as unpopular as conservatives believed, their plan for the shutdown — that there would be a public uprising to force Democratic senators in close races in 2014 to defund it — would’ve worked. It didn’t. Not a single senator budged.

Their tactic failed, and now what they are left with is House Speaker John Boehner basically begging the president of the United States to negotiate with him.

[Hemodoc]

Yes, yes, yes, petulant children indeed, but it is Obummer that is the petulant child my friend. Now, just "looking" at Mt. Rushmore is not allowed. Obummer shut down the viewing sections on the road. Yes, a petulant child indeed.

Now gov’t trying to block people from looking at Mt. Rushmore (seriously)
Posted by William A. Jacobson    Sunday, October 6, 2013 at 8:30am
Not satisfied shutting the monument even though the State offered to pay to keep it open, the feds placed cones to block viewing areas in the distance.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/now-govt-trying-to-block-people-from-looking-at-mt-rushmore-seriously/

Bring the hurt as many liberals are calling and you will see a movement in this nation never seen before. I wonder who Obummer's PR folks are? He is NOT helping his cause at all with his heavy handed tactics.

DOD could with the Commander in Chief solve this issue which THEY created with a stroke of the pen. He has the power to come up with $500,000 for funeral obligations for active duty service folks in HIS OWN HANDS ALONE. In fact, as commander in chief, he is the ONLY one that can do such a thing. Good grief, yes, yes, yes, the GOP really is a terrible group of petulant children. Anyway, bring it on, bring on the hurt as so many libs are calling today! Yes, yes, bring it on. Let them eat cake!!

[Hober Mallow]

The Republican House shut down the government. That's not a fact that's in dispute. And this all ends when the House Republicans get back to work.

[Hemodoc]

The Republican House shut down the government. That's not a fact that's in dispute. And this all ends when the House Republicans get back to work.

Sorry, you are wrong again. The GOP is ready to discuss a political compromise, but Obummer won't even talk to them, but he will talk to Iran. Go figure.

[Hober Mallow]

The Republican House shut down the government. That's not a fact that's in dispute. And this all ends when the House Republicans get back to work.

Sorry, you are wrong again. The GOP is ready to discuss a political compromise, but Obummer won't even talk to them, but he will talk to Iran. Go figure.

He shouldn't compromise. "I didn't get what I wanted through the legislative process, so I'm gonna shut down the government and hurt people until I do! Wah!" The president would be a fool to compromise with that.

[Hemodoc]

The Republican House shut down the government. That's not a fact that's in dispute. And this all ends when the House Republicans get back to work.

Sorry, you are wrong again. The GOP is ready to discuss a political compromise, but Obummer won't even talk to them, but he will talk to Iran. Go figure.

He shouldn't compromise. "I didn't get what I wanted through the legislative process, so I'm gonna shut down the government and hurt people until I do! Wah!" The president would be a fool to compromise with that.

Hmmm, elections matter. Obummer doesn't own both houses of congress and he failed to fund his ObummerCare when he did. Congress has the power of the purse. Obummer I guess forgot that part of the constitution. Clinton understood this concept and went to the center in his second term. Obummer forgot about that. In any case, bring it on Hober, increase the pain.

[Hober Mallow]

Hmmm, elections matter. Obummer doesn't own both houses of congress and he failed to fund his ObummerCare when he did. Congress has the power of the purse. Obummer I guess forgot that part of the constitution.

"Controlling spending" and "shutting down the government because I didn't get my way" are two different things.

The trouble with Republicans is that compromise is another word for "give me everything I want or you're not compromising!" Senate Democrats already compromised by agreeing to Republican-proposed spending levels. What did Republicans agree to compromise on?

This is not going well for the Republicans. And just wait until they don't raise the debt ceiling...

EDIT: Oh, boy.

“I think we need to have that moment where we realize [we’re] going broke,” Yoho said. If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, that will sure as heck be a moment. “I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets,” since they would be assured that the United States had moved decisively to curb its debt.

Yes, because nothing says "I'm serious about debt," like "I'm not going to pay my bills."

[Hemodoc]

Wrong again my friend. Obama shoved this bill down our throats through Senate shenanigans after Scott Brown was elected in MA of all states. ObamaCare is not nearly as popular as you portray it. Charles Krauthammer had a very interesting op-ed on this issue. His contention, no other major societal legislation ever passed without any bipartisan support. Never before. The GOP was shut out of this bill entirely which came out of secret back room pacts by the Harry Reid and Palosi. The GOP was not involved at all because they were shut out of the room.

The current stalemate is a direct result of that according to his post.

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/opinion/krauthammer-who-shut-down-mount-rushmore/article_5aa744a4-963b-520f-ab95-e77c5ec84b2b.html

[Shaks24]

Yet Obama was re elected by a wide margin after campaigning on his health bill while Romney advocated its repeal. Congress acted on it, the Supreme Court reaffirmed it and the people spoke with their votes.  Its time to move on. If down the road congress makes changes to it through the process so be it. What the Republicans have tried to pull off here driven by fear of the Tea Party is shameful.

[Hemodoc]

Yet Obama was re elected by a wide margin after campaigning on his health bill while Romney advocated its repeal. Congress acted on it, the Supreme Court reaffirmed it and the people spoke with their votes.  Its time to move on. If down the road congress makes changes to it through the process so be it. What the Republicans have tried to pull off here driven by fear of the Tea Party is shameful.

Obama should have thought of that when he rammed it through without any consideration of the GOP which does represent about half the nation. Bill Clinton understood these issues and got things done his second term. Obama has not. Oh well. Don't expect GOP support when you shut them out completely. I guess Obama forgot that the GOP has the House. Oh well. Let him play hard line with everyone.

[Bill Peckham]

Wrong again my friend. Obama shoved this bill down our throats through Senate shenanigans after Scott Brown was elected in MA of all states. ObamaCare is not nearly as popular as you portray it. Charles Krauthammer had a very interesting op-ed on this issue. His contention, no other major societal legislation ever passed without any bipartisan support. Never before. The GOP was shut out of this bill entirely which came out of secret back room pacts by the Harry Reid and Palosi. The GOP was not involved at all because they were shut out of the room.

The current stalemate is a direct result of that according to his post.

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/opinion/krauthammer-who-shut-down-mount-rushmore/article_5aa744a4-963b-520f-ab95-e77c5ec84b2b.html

Bohner admitted to Stephanopoulos that he reneged on the deal he struck in July with Reid (see the ~3:15 minute mark). It all comes down to the ACA, all the rest is just the day's talking point, and the fact is what the Republicans in Congress are doing is an undemocratic, anticonstitutional attempt to get their way even though the Constitution does not give them a constitutional path to their preferred policy outcome. The Congressional republicans are not conservatives they are neo-Jacobins.

[noahvale]

Bohner admitted to Stephanopoulos that he reneged on the deal he struck in July with Reid (see the ~3:15 minute mark). It all comes down to the ACA, all the rest is just the day's talking point, and the fact is what the Republicans in Congress are doing is an undemocratic, anticonstitutional attempt to get their way even though the Constitution does not give them a constitutional path to their preferred policy outcome. The Congressional republicans are not conservatives they are neo-Jacobins.

"Even when it comes to something as basic, and apparently as simple and straightforward, as the question of who shut down the federal government, there are diametrically opposite answers, depending on whether you talk to Democrats or to Republicans.

There is really nothing complicated about the facts. The Republican-controlled House of Representatives voted all the money required to keep all government activities going — except for ObamaCare.

This is not a matter of opinion. You can check the Congressional Record.

As for the House of Representatives' right to grant or withhold money, that is not a matter of opinion either. You can check the Constitution of the United States. All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that Congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity.

Whether ObamaCare is good, bad or indifferent is a matter of opinion. But it is a matter of fact that members of the House of Representatives have a right to make spending decisions based on their opinion.

ObamaCare is indeed "the law of the land," as its supporters keep saying, and the Supreme Court has upheld its Constitutionality.

But the whole point of having a division of powers within the federal government is that each branch can decide independently what it wants to do or not do, regardless of what the other branches do, when exercising the powers specifically granted to that branch by the Constitution.

The hundreds of thousands of government workers who have been laid off are not idle because the House of Representatives did not vote enough money to pay their salaries or the other expenses of their agencies — unless they are in an agency that would administer ObamaCare.

Since we cannot read minds, we cannot say who — if anybody — "wants to shut down the government." But we do know who had the option to keep the government running and chose not to. The money voted by the House of Representatives covered everything that the government does, except for ObamaCare.

The Senate chose not to vote to authorize that money to be spent, because it did not include money for ObamaCare. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says that he wants a "clean" bill from the House of Representatives, and some in the media keep repeating the word "clean" like a mantra. But what is unclean about not giving Harry Reid everything he wants?

If Senator Reid and President Obama refuse to accept the money required to run the government, because it leaves out the money they want to run ObamaCare, that is their right. But that is also their responsibility.

You cannot blame other people for not giving you everything you want. And it is a fraud to blame them when you refuse to use the money they did vote, even when it is ample to pay for everything else in the government.

When Barack Obama keeps claiming that it is some new outrage for those who control the money to try to change government policy by granting or withholding money, that is simply a bald-faced lie. You can check the history of other examples of "legislation by appropriation" as it used to be called.

Whether legislation by appropriation is a good idea or a bad idea is a matter of opinion. But whether it is both legal and not unprecedented is a matter of fact.

Perhaps the biggest of the big lies is that the government will not be able to pay what it owes on the national debt, creating a danger of default. Tax money keeps coming into the Treasury during the shutdown, and it vastly exceeds the interest that has to be paid on the national debt.

Even if the debt ceiling is not lifted, that only means that government is not allowed to run up new debt. But that does not mean that it is unable to pay the interest on existing debt.

None of this is rocket science. But unless the Republicans get their side of the story out — and articulation has never been their strong suit — the lies will win. More important, the whole country will lose."

 ~~ Thomas Sowell, Ph.D. - Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
       "Who Shut Down the Government?" Oct. 4, 2013
        http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell100413.php3

[Hemodoc]

Wrong again my friend. Obama shoved this bill down our throats through Senate shenanigans after Scott Brown was elected in MA of all states. ObamaCare is not nearly as popular as you portray it. Charles Krauthammer had a very interesting op-ed on this issue. His contention, no other major societal legislation ever passed without any bipartisan support. Never before. The GOP was shut out of this bill entirely which came out of secret back room pacts by the Harry Reid and Palosi. The GOP was not involved at all because they were shut out of the room.

The current stalemate is a direct result of that according to his post.

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/opinion/krauthammer-who-shut-down-mount-rushmore/article_5aa744a4-963b-520f-ab95-e77c5ec84b2b.html

Bohner admitted to Stephanopoulos that he reneged on the deal he struck in July with Reid (see the ~3:15 minute mark). It all comes down to the ACA, all the rest is just the day's talking point, and the fact is what the Republicans in Congress are doing is an undemocratic, anticonstitutional attempt to get their way even though the Constitution does not give them a constitutional path to their preferred policy outcome. The Congressional republicans are not conservatives they are neo-Jacobins.

Too funny. The Jacobins are quite different than how the term is misapplied today.

A Jacobin (French pronunciation: ​[ʒakɔbɛ̃]) is someone who supports a centralized Republic, with power made at the federal level in contemporary usage. At its inception during the French Revolution, the term was popularly applied to all supporters of revolutionary opinions. Specifically, it was used to describe members of the Jacobin Club, a revolutionary, far-left political movement that had been the most famous political club of the French Revolution.[1] The club was so called from the Dominican convent where they originally met, in the Rue Saint-Jacques (Latin: Jacobus) in Paris.

Today, many refer to the Tea Party folks as neo-Jacobins. They also applied it to the Bush administration. I will not for one minute defend the grandson of one of the founders of the CIA, but the Tea Party folks are not all Jacobins. Far opposite. They simply want government to get out of their face and let them exercise their God given liberties in faith and practice. That is true conservatism and the exact opposite of Jacobins. Just one more left wing attempt at defamation.

The power of the purse is the power of Congress starting in the House which is completely constitutional. Remember, separation of powers into THREE spheres, one of which has the HOUSE and the other half the Senate. It was NOT designed to operate without any opposition. Far from it. Opposition and resistance is DESIGNED into the constitution to prevent tyranny. Funny that you make that accusation while defending the most anti-constitutional

[Bill Peckham]

It's the Jacobin's commitment to theory over practice that I see in the tea party wing of the republican Congressional caucus, and the Jacobin's dynamic that required membership in the group to be sifted by ever finer purity screens.

Come on, Thomas Sowell knows that the Constitution does not support one part of one branch, the House of Representatives, to just not do the basic paper work of keeping the government operating and our borrowing capacity sufficient. Thomas Sowell can not possibly want to live in a United States that has go through a debit limit fight every three months with the House offering some new demand each time. Maybe he does. Maybe he is so worried about a Justice from the conservative side of the court needing to be replaced in the next two years that the idea is to establish the debt ceiling and/or CRs as points where a policy goal can be achieved that normal constitutional means denies. But I doubt it. It is too unworkable a model. It is not the one we have now and that has served us very well.

There is a budget process, taking tough votes and muddling through, and in his heart Thomas Sowell knows that is, in fact, good enough.