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Author Topic: Finally! The actual prices for insurance under Obamacare.  (Read 8678 times)
Bill Peckham
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« on: September 07, 2013, 12:15:17 AM »


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/06/finally-the-actual-prices-for-insurance-under-obamacare/

Yes, we know premium prices under Obamacare. No, we don’t know if people will think they're affordable.
By Sarah Kliff, Updated: September 6, 2013

Welcome to Health Reform Watch, Sarah Kliff's regular look at how the Affordable Care Act is changing the American health-care system — and being changed by it. You can reach Sarah with questions, comments and suggestions here. Check back every Monday, Wednesday and Friday afternoon for the latest edition, and read previous columns here.

Premium subsidies may be one of the most complicated parts of the Affordable Care Act to understand, and that says something when you’re talking about a 2,000-page law that overhauls the American health-care system.

They're also crucially important to the health care law, the factors that determines how much health insurance will cost under Obamacare and whether Americans will decide that price tag is affordable. So, today, we’re going to use a brand new report from the Kaiser Family Foundation to explain how the subsidies work. Get. Excited.

Kaiser’s report is arguably the most in-depth look we have at how much health insurance will cost under Obamacare, using actual rates that insurers will charge in 17 states and the District of Columbia.

“Our aim here was to really start making it tangible for people,” says Larry Levitt, one of the report authors. “So much until now has been hypothetical, with simulations and models. Now that we have real premiums in 17 states and D.C., we could start looking at what consumers in real circumstances would pay.”

That includes this chart, which shows us how much a 40-year-old who earns $28,725 (250 percent of the poverty line) would be expected to pay for medical care in 18 cities.



Let’s focus on Seattle, since it has middle-of-the-pack premiums and happens to be where I grew up (Go Huskies!). There, the second-lowest-cost silver plan costs $283 a month for a hypothetical 40-year-old. For purposes of this exercise, we’ll call her the Seattleite.

This second-lowest-cost silver plan is important because its price determines how big (or small) of a subsidy an individual gets. The health care law says that someone earning 250 percent of the poverty line won’t be expected to spend more than 8 percent of his or her income to buy this particular plan. (It’s called a “silver plan” as a measure of how much of a subscriber’s costs it will cover. More on that here.)

That limit changes by income. As you go up the income scale, your contribution gets bigger. And at 400 percent of the poverty line, or $45,960 for an individual, the federal government won’t give you any subsidy, expecting anyone earning above that limit to pay the full price.



All of these contributions are benchmarked to the second-cheapest silver plan. Silver plans cover 70 percent of the average subscriber’s costs. The marketplace also includes different levels of coverage: A bronze plan is less robust, covering 60 percent of an average subscriber’s cost; a gold plan (surprise!) covers 80 percent.

In Seattle, the second-lowest silver plan costs $283 a month. Eight percent of our Seattleite's income is $2,316, or $193 per month. So, the federal subsidy steps in and provides a subsidy of $90 per month to make up the difference.

But here’s another important factor: The Seattleite doesn't have to buy a silver plan. She could decide she wants less robust coverage and use her $90 subsidy to buy the least- expensive plan, a bronze-level product that costs $213 per month. Factor in her $90 subsidy, and she’s paying $123 a month.

Conversely, the Seattleite could decide she wants a pretty rocking gold plan, which will cover 80 percent of the average subscriber’s monthly cost. That plan is likely more expensive, and she’ll only get a $90 credit to help with the purchase. The data we have on Massachusetts, for what its worth, suggests that most marketplace enrollees will stick to bronze and silver plans.



We've talked about a 40-year-old who earns $28,725. But subsidies start to change by age, even if that’s not quite apparent in the health care law. Insurance plans are allowed to charge older Americans three times as much as their younger subscribers. You can see that in this Kaiser chart, which shows the premiums for 60-year-olds who earn $28,725.




The Seattle insurer that charges a 40-year-old $283 per month for a silver plan wants to charge a 60-year-old $601 for the exact same product. But that actually doesn't matter too much for the 60-year-old. Since he also earns $28,725, he’s going to have his contribution capped at 8 percent of his income. That will take a $408 subsidy to bring his contribution to $193.

And like the 40-year-old, our 60-year-old Seattleite has the option of using his subsidy to buy the cheapest plan in the marketplace. And since he has a much bigger subsidy, this has the effect of making a bronze plan way cheaper. His $408 subsidy, applied to a $452 premium plan, means he’s paying $44 per month.

“There are a lot of quirks in the law, and this is one of them,” Leavitt says of older people paying less for the cheapest plans than their younger counterparts. “The opposite is also true there — that older people will have to pay more than younger people if they want to go up to gold. Then older people are having higher costs.”

What this report does tell us is the exact amount that some Americans will pay for health insurance, depending on where they live and how much they earn. What it does not tell us, as some headlines have suggested, is that health insurance will be affordable.

While it’s often pointed out that these premiums are lower than the Congressional Budget Office expected, that doesn’t say anything about how Americans will react to them. It’s hard to imagine a marketplace shopper who thinks: “Man, these premiums are way cheaper than CBO said they would be. What a great deal!”

Kaiser highlights some states where Obamacare looks quite affordable. Take Vermont, for example, where a low-income 25-year-old's tax credit would be enough to cover the entire premium of the cheapest plan.



When you hop over to Oregon though, that same 25-year-old, with the same income, is looking at spending $116 a month.



Is $116 affordable to a 25-year-old earning about $1,500 a month after taxes? That’s a harder question to answer. That judgment of affordability, Levitt readily acknowledges, will have a lot less to do with the CBO and a whole lot more to do with the individual buyer’s budget.

“I don't know,” he told me when I asked whether he would consider the rates affordable. “On the one hand, all the cry about rate shock may be unfounded. On the other, we're still talking about a pretty significant purchase. Unless you've had to go out and buy insurance, you have no ideal what it’s supposed to cost or whether it’s a good deal.”
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 12:17:58 AM by Bill Peckham » Logged

http://www.billpeckham.com  "Dialysis from the sharp end of the needle" tracking  industry news and trends - in advocacy, reimbursement, politics and the provision of dialysis
Incenter Hemodialysis: 1990 - 2001
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obsidianom
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 06:18:17 AM »

I pay over $800 per  onth for myself now . It is a small group plan. I also pay $450 for a comprehensive group medicare supplement for my wife which includes drug benefits. Our monthly bill is over $1250.  Now that I am working very few hours due to my wife needing dialyis 5 times per week, this is a large amount. It eats up a lot of our income. So the new rates you are quoting would be a welcome change and help to us. My income is quite low now due to my medical issues and my wifes dialysis.
I have paid my own helth insurance for 25 years so I have seen what it really costs. it started at under $200 monthly back 25 years ago. That was with a very low $200 deductable. Now its 4 to 5 times higher with a $2500 deductable. What else in our cpitalist society has jumped that much. ????
Health Insurance KILLS(income)
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My wife is the most important person in my life. Dialysis is an honor to do for her.
NxStage since June 2012 .
When not doing dialysis I am a physician ,for over 25 years now(not a nephrologist)

Any posting here should be used for informational purposes only . Talk to your own doctor about treatment decisions.
Shaks24
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« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 06:29:25 AM »

I agree 100% Doc. I know there is a lot of conflict over the good and bad of Obamacare. I honestly believe it is a step in the right direction because of the reasons you list. I was planning to buy a decent gold level policy through Obamacare but it looks like I will be on dialysis before they are available so now I am planning on Original Medicare with a good supplement.
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 07:09:54 AM »

Oh, the fun begins!  I'll be on Medicare through my Ticket to Work program for the first 6 years or so of Obamacare.  So all I have to figure out is how that works with the tax mess, and if I'd be better off sticking with my BCBS gap policy, or dropping that and adding one of these silver care policies for the gap instead - and if that's even possible - and what will cost the least yet still cover my transplant meds now and the possibility of future D and a second transplant. 

I see an appointment with the financial coordinator in my future!
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Shaks24
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« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 07:52:49 AM »

I hear you loud and clear. Many of us will face making decisions on coverage that could have a huge impact on both our health and financial well being.  At least for those us unable to buy insurance due to pre existing conditions there are now options. It would be so much simpler if this nation had universal coverage for all. I know! I know! Now I am an Obama socialist.  :lol; I am actually neither a Dem or a Repub.
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Bill Peckham
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« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 09:42:14 AM »

JBeany I'll be interested to hear what you decide. My understanding is that the exchange insurance is not designed to be secondary to Medicare but because the policies leave a percent uncovered, like Medicare, I wonder if there will be a more robust secondary insurance market going forward.

The other calculation I haven't worked out is what someone who has significant yearly medical expenses should do, for instance needs dialysis, not qualified for Medicare. Because the yearly out of pocket is capped why not go for the Bronze plan? You'd be on the hook for 30% on Jan 1 but if you're going to hit the spending cap why not get there as quick as possible? Does that make sense to you obsidianom? But I am not all sure, maybe the spending caps vary with the plan levels. On vacation right now but this is what I'll be trying to understand next.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 09:43:36 AM by Bill Peckham » Logged

http://www.billpeckham.com  "Dialysis from the sharp end of the needle" tracking  industry news and trends - in advocacy, reimbursement, politics and the provision of dialysis
Incenter Hemodialysis: 1990 - 2001
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        * 4 to 6 days a week 30 Liters (using PureFlow) @ ~250 Qb ~ 8 hour per treatment FF~28
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 10:27:35 AM »

I think anyone on dialysis qualifies for medicare unless they do not meet the work credits requirements based on their own work history or that of their spouse. Is that not correct Bill?
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 11:11:30 AM »

I think anyone on dialysis qualifies for medicare unless they do not meet the work credits requirements based on their own work history or that of their spouse. Is that not correct Bill?


That's correct but it is quite a few people. And there is the 33 month delay. Today if you enter ESRD without insurance you are in deep shit, in four months you'll be less deep shit.
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http://www.billpeckham.com  "Dialysis from the sharp end of the needle" tracking  industry news and trends - in advocacy, reimbursement, politics and the provision of dialysis
Incenter Hemodialysis: 1990 - 2001
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        * 4 to 6 days a week 30 Liters (using PureFlow) @ ~250 Qb ~ 8 hour per treatment FF~28
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« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 11:54:39 AM »

People in that situation should opt for doing home dialysis and starting the training asap. That way medicare is retroactive and may cover the first 3 months. At least that is what I have read.
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« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 04:49:51 PM »

...Because the yearly out of pocket is capped why not go for the Bronze plan? You'd be on the hook for 30% on Jan 1 but if you're going to hit the spending cap why not get there as quick as possible? Does that make sense to you obsidianom? But I am not all sure, maybe the spending caps vary with the plan levels. On vacation right now but this is what I'll be trying to understand next.

That's what I do with the insurance choices I've got through work -- I know I'm going to reach the out of pocket maximum, so I looked to see which was lowest. Turned out is was the high-deductible one.

cheers,
skg
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 07:52:40 PM »

Shaks is correct on Medicare.

People, poor people, poverty level will not shell out any money for health insurance.  Hell, they don't buy car insurance.  The just steal them when they need to go somewhere. 

I hope I get to keep my bxbs Federal plan for my secondary.  But, I guess if it goes sky high I'll be looking at the bronze plan or the booze plan.

I admit I didn't read all that.   I couldn't get through it I can't imagine reading 200 pages of the BS.

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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 06:48:29 AM »

I have extremely good coverage through my employer that I pay nothing for, and my fear with Obamacare has always been that it is going to force my employer to change the coverage that it offers.  Already from 2012 to 2013 two of the three plans that my employer has offered for a long time went bye-bye due to the plans no longer existing at BCBS Carefirst as they were gearing up for Obamacare. =/
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 07:35:20 AM »

JBeany I'll be interested to hear what you decide. My understanding is that the exchange insurance is not designed to be secondary to Medicare but because the policies leave a percent uncovered, like Medicare, I wonder if there will be a more robust secondary insurance market going forward.

The other calculation I haven't worked out is what someone who has significant yearly medical expenses should do, for instance needs dialysis, not qualified for Medicare. Because the yearly out of pocket is capped why not go for the Bronze plan? You'd be on the hook for 30% on Jan 1 but if you're going to hit the spending cap why not get there as quick as possible? Does that make sense to you obsidianom? But I am not all sure, maybe the spending caps vary with the plan levels. On vacation right now but this is what I'll be trying to understand next.
I always look at the out of pocket maximum too. I figure i will have to pay that much , but after that everything is covered 100% , assuming that is what the plan does. I also try to get there as soon as possible. Just make sure that everything you pay for out of pocket counts toward the out of pocket maximum. Example, medications should count so if you you use a ltof expensive meds that adds up quickly. READ THE FINE PRINT CAREFULLY ALWAYS
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My wife is the most important person in my life. Dialysis is an honor to do for her.
NxStage since June 2012 .
When not doing dialysis I am a physician ,for over 25 years now(not a nephrologist)

Any posting here should be used for informational purposes only . Talk to your own doctor about treatment decisions.
Shaks24
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 07:47:55 AM »

I think anyone on dialysis qualifies for medicare unless they do not meet the work credits requirements based on their own work history or that of their spouse. Is that not correct Bill?


That's correct but it is quite a few people. And there is the 33 month delay. Today if you enter ESRD without insurance you are in deep shit, in four months you'll be less deep shit.

Guess I am in deep shit. At least I am planning on home PD so it may not be too deep.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 07:52:05 AM by Shaks24 » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 07:55:08 AM »

Another aspect of this is the possible impact of age at retirement. Many people wanting to retire at 62 (or earlier) have been held in their jobs because of the potential loss of insurance and high cost of a private plan. With Obamacare, it now looks like insurance will be much more affordable.

Am I seeing this correctly?

And also, for anyone who has had to pay for Cobra, will Obamacare make Cobra unnecessary?
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2013, 08:09:06 AM »

I think the 4 major variables of your policy rates are: policy you choose, your location, your age and if you use tobacco. There is a lot of luck of the draw involved as to where you live and what insurance companies operate in your state. Only policies purchased on the exchanges can get a subsidy that could bring premiums down substantially. Its going to be a jig saw puzzle for many.
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Congestive heart failure 2011
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Bill Peckham
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2013, 09:36:36 AM »

Only policies purchased on the exchanges can get a subsidy that could bring premiums down substantially. Its going to be a jig saw puzzle for many.

There are tax incentives (aka subsidies) for employers who offer insurance. If you are paying an employee the amounts listed in the charts then you get that subsidy if you offer health insurance. If you mean buying an individual policy outside of the exchange - I'm not sure. Will people do that?

Another aspect of this is the possible impact of age at retirement. Many people wanting to retire at 62 (or earlier) have been held in their jobs because of the potential loss of insurance and high cost of a private plan. With Obamacare, it now looks like insurance will be much more affordable.

Am I seeing this correctly?

And also, for anyone who has had to pay for Cobra, will Obamacare make Cobra unnecessary?


I think Obamacare will change people's work choices. Many, many people keep working jobs for health insurance when they would rather do something else, retirement or starting their own business. When you see reports that the GAO (IIRC) is expecting 3 million people to drop their employer insurance, it's a choice in favor of retirement or striking out on their own. The other little discussed group are those that use a disability designation to get insurance who could work, depending on your assumptions this could be a handful of people or a lot of people.

That's a good question about COBRA, I'm not sure if insurance through the exchanges will be an alternative.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 10:00:59 AM by Bill Peckham » Logged

http://www.billpeckham.com  "Dialysis from the sharp end of the needle" tracking  industry news and trends - in advocacy, reimbursement, politics and the provision of dialysis
Incenter Hemodialysis: 1990 - 2001
Home Hemodialysis: 2001 - Present
NxStage System One Cycler 2007 - Present
        * 4 to 6 days a week 30 Liters (using PureFlow) @ ~250 Qb ~ 8 hour per treatment FF~28
Shaks24
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2013, 12:18:23 PM »

Looks like some employers will make the decision for their retiree employees like this:   http://www.cnbc.com/id/101017131
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 12:20:33 PM by Shaks24 » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2013, 01:20:21 PM »

There's an article in my Sunday paper today about Medicare vs Obamacare, which states "If you're already covered by Medicare, you needn't give the Marketplace (aka Obamacare) another thought.  That's for people under the age of 65 who don't have any health insurance."  It doesn't cover what to do for those of us under 65 on for disability though.  The article also notes "It's against the law for someone who knows that you have Medicare to sell you a Marketplace plan."  That second part was a direct quote from someone who worked for Medicare.

Not that I mind being able to ignore the Obamacare confusion for the first few years, but if what the article is saying applies to those on SSD, I still get the usual joy of double checking all my part D and gap coverage to see what is changing and how much more my gap coverage will cost me this year.   :P

The article was by Jennifer Waters, under the umbrella of the The Wall Street Journal Sunday that appears in my local paper.
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« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2013, 02:26:16 PM »

I am pretty sure I read If you are on Medicare it is a qualified plan and you do not face any penalty under Obamacare. If you fully cover yourself under Medicare like this (an expensive example for someone under 65) your coverage would be better than an Obamacare Platimum Plan. Medicare A Free, Medicare B 104, Medicare D 50, Medigap F(under 65) 350. So for around 500/month total coverage. I do not think you will be able to buy an Obamacare Platinum Plan for that if you are 50 or older. If you were over 65 you could buy the Medigap F for a lot less than 350.  I think ???
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Congestive heart failure 2011
Currently about 19% Kidney Function
September 11, 2013 PD Catheter and Fistula Surgery
September 27, 2013 Started PD
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