Banning Words?

[MooseMom]

Moosemom, I must confess to have been guilty calling my friends a retard when someone did something stupid when I was a kid. It was just part of our vernacular and wasn't really an offensive term amongst those in our gang of friends.

However, I do understand why you would be upset with such a term today and do support your objection to the term. It can be hurtful especially for some one with a challenged child who still garners your love and attention. So, yes, I believe you are correct in your reproach of others for using that term.

Oh, I'm sure when I was a kid I used words that I wouldn't use now!

My son isn't "retarded".  He has a normal IQ, although it must be said that up to 85% of people on the autistic spectrum do have what is clinically defined as a sub-normal IQ.  His challenges are more social which is a real shame and a real obstacle because he is really such a social person.  Like most young people his age, he likes to be friends with as many people on FB as humanly possible.  One wouldn't see his social disability on fb, but once you meet him, what you'd think is social awkwardness is really high functioning autism.  There are many more people like him than we realize!  They just have yet to be diagnosed.

Still, through my son, I have met many children who ARE "retarded", and it is not only they who are hurt by unkind verbiage but also their parents and the other people who love them.    The hurt caused by an unkind word has a rippling effect.

[gothiclovemonkey]

Clearly you missed out on the few of us who DO have open minds and could level with you in most ways...
Thats unfortunate.

I am not like the others, I wont tell you not to leave. Thats entirely your choice... but ive been in a pickle here too... not that long ago, perhaps a year ago? I was looking for a certain movie, that was offensive to a lot of IHD members, i took some of the things said very personally and it angered me, but just because they didnt agree with me, doesnt mean they arent great when it comes to dialysis issues...
so i learned that speaking to them about non dialysis related things is touchy, and should be done with extreme caution lol

[WishIKnew]

Stay.  Go.  Do whatever you want.  We are OK with whatever works for you.

And I need to add that my son is approaching 16 and you two should meet sometime.  You'd not likely agree on much but you'd have fantastic discussions, I am sure.  He, like you, is quite articulate and has a vocabulary he can use as a weapon among his peers, as I am sure you have done at times. (To clarify, I do NOT mean hurtful words, I mean big words.)  Like he has, I'm sure you've learned that an extensive vocabulary is a much weaker weapon among adults.  Bummer for you both. (That alone may have been where this thread started to go wrong for you.)  My son  enjoys throwing ideas and opinions out like sharks in a pool full of peaceful swimmers and then standing back to see who will battle the sharks and who will jump out of the pool.  Sometimes he annoys the hell out of me, but I LOVE his mind and his analytical thinking and his willingness to own an unpopular idea.  I can literally watch as he chooses which ideas and opinions will become a part of his mindset and which ideas will not make the cut.  Fascinating!  Anyway, that's the view I take when reading this thread.  Quite a few of us battled the sharks.  I think you really enjoyed that for awhile, I know my son would have, but then at some point it started to feel personal and that is when you decided to leave.  Many an IHDer before you have left for similar reasons!
 
Anyway.  Stay.  Go.  Do whatever you want.  But ALWAYS know that if ever you have a dialysis, ESRD, medical need or concern we will be right here cooking the fatted calf ready to welcome you. 

Please be well!

[Rerun]

Don't leave kid.

We are still here for you anytime.... the drama of dialysis hits...  We are still here for you.

           

[chiromac]

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

[Henry P Snicklesnorter]

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Quoting 1 Corinthians 13:11.  is an interesting response, particularly considering the last part of the statement.   

[Emerson Burick]

You have EVERY RIGHT NOT TO EXPERIENCE SUCH THINGS...

But what gives you the right to tell me I can't?

It's your right to be an utter cock to everyone around you. However, you'll have more friends, employment opportunities, and less spit in your food at restaurants if you refrain from doing so. There's a saying that takes many forms, usually attributed to Oscar Wilde: "A gentleman never unintentionally gives offense." Save your insults, bad language, and ill feeling for those who deserve them. They'll stay sharper with infrequent use.

I know the idea of banning the word "retard" is pointless. There have always been words to label those who aren't normal, and those words always become insults because, no matter how one tries sugarcoat it, it's not a good thing to be abnormal or less intelligent. Eventually there's always a movement to change the label because it's become an insult, the term gets changed, people learn the new word, and then the new word become the insult. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't read up on the history of the terminology.

In the meanwhile, doesn't your school have a speech or debate team? I think you'd like it.

[iKAZ3D]

You have EVERY RIGHT NOT TO EXPERIENCE SUCH THINGS...

But what gives you the right to tell me I can't?

It's your right to be an utter cock to everyone around you. However, you'll have more friends, employment opportunities, and less spit in your food at restaurants if you refrain from doing so. There's a saying that takes many forms, usually attributed to Oscar Wilde: "A gentleman never unintentionally gives offense." Save your insults, bad language, and ill feeling for those who deserve them. They'll stay sharper with infrequent use.

I know the idea of banning the word "retard" is pointless. There have always been words to label those who aren't normal, and those words always become insults because, no matter how one tries sugarcoat it, it's not a good thing to be abnormal or less intelligent. Eventually there's always a movement to change the label because it's become an insult, the term gets changed, people learn the new word, and then the new word become the insult. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't read up on the history of the terminology.

In the meanwhile, doesn't your school have a speech or debate team? I think you'd like it.

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: Damn Dialysis.
It's an after school elective.

But to respond to your statement:

Once again, and I've tried to reiterate this as much as possible, I was not trying to be a "cock". I was having a discussion, and one of MY words that I use came out as one of our inside jokes. (I use retarded semi-frequently to express my disgust with some things. Like 'Oh that's retarded'). This was not me speaking to a person. This would, in your restaurant scenario be my private conversation with my table partners.

 

[Riki]

I agree with the kid.  He wasn't speaking to the one who was offended, he was speaking to someone else, and used the word in a context that had nothing to do with anyone with developmental disabilities.  He knew his audience.  The one who was offended invited himself into the conversation.  I'm sure that if he had been speaking to this particular person, he wouldn't have used the word.  The thing is, he was not speaking to that person.

I am a word lover.  I do tend to use a lot of words that might be considered offensive to some people.  As has been said earlier, I do choose those words depending on who my audience is.  I use a lot of swear words, when I feel I need to, as anyone on my Facebook friends list would know.  I don't use them on this forum, as one of the rules here is to not use them.  That's part of knowing your audience.  I do use the word 'retarded' sometimes, but in the proper context.  I do believe that some American politicians have retarded views, especially when it comes to women's heath and gun control, but that has nothing to do with their intelligence.  It just means that they appear unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture, and this comes from someone who literally cannot see a big picture. *L*

He wasn't trying to offend or insult anybody.  The offended person butted into a private conversation, when they should have been minding their own business. 

[iKAZ3D]

I agree with the kid.  He wasn't speaking to the one who was offended, he was speaking to someone else, and used the word in a context that had nothing to do with anyone with developmental disabilities.  He knew his audience.  The one who was offended invited himself into the conversation.  I'm sure that if he had been speaking to this particular person, he wouldn't have used the word.  The thing is, he was not speaking to that person.

I am a word lover.  I do tend to use a lot of words that might be considered offensive to some people.  As has been said earlier, I do choose those words depending on who my audience is.  I use a lot of swear words, when I feel I need to, as anyone on my Facebook friends list would know.  I don't use them on this forum, as one of the rules here is to not use them.  That's part of knowing your audience.  I do use the word 'retarded' sometimes, but in the proper context.  I do believe that some American politicians have retarded views, especially when it comes to women's heath and gun control, but that has nothing to do with their intelligence.  It just means that they appear unable or unwilling to see the bigger picture, and this comes from someone who literally cannot see a big picture. *L*

He wasn't trying to offend or insult anybody.  The offended person butted into a private conversation, when they should have been minding their own business.

 

[Weggy]

I agree with iKAZ3D on some level as well. Words should not be banned from use. However, you will have to know your audience and possibly take criticism when using offending words.

In the original post, iKAZ3D said he was aware of friend's situation. Whether or not he was directly talking to him, he was still an audience in my opinion. If he knew he was there, that is disrespectful as he already knew about his situation. If he didn't know he was there, he should have just apologized (it is something I would do) since they were friends.

This situation is like having black people around you and saying the n-word (yeah, I ain't writing it. I hate that word.) when you are a white person. Sure, you have the freedom to say that word, but expect to have people call you on it.

[MooseMom]

There is also the possibility that someone may overhear you.  You may be talking just to a friend and may use an "objectionable" word, but if you are in public, few conversations are truly private.  There may be an unintented audience close by, and that audience may go away thinking you are a first class jerk, and you'd never know they had formed this opinion about you.  You'd never get the chance to prove otherwise.

[jbeany]

I was quickly skimming the post to see how far I had to go to read newly posted comments.  I read this line....

Long Answer: Damn Dialysis.
It's an after school elective.
 

...before I got to this part...

In the meanwhile, doesn't your school have a speech or debate team? I think you'd like it.

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: Damn Dialysis.
It's an after school elective.
 

And I gotta say, I was loving the idea of referring to dialysis as an after-school elective.   

[Henry P Snicklesnorter]

There is also the possibility that someone may overhear you.  You may be talking just to a friend and may use an "objectionable" word, but if you are in public, few conversations are truly private.  There may be an unintented audience close by, and that audience may go away thinking you are a first class jerk, and you'd never know they had formed this opinion about you.  You'd never get the chance to prove otherwise.

G'day MM,



I believe it would be a tragedy to stop using a particular word or phrase, just because someone might overhear you and might form a certain opinion of you because of that. Taken to an extreme, we'd all end up mute. 


"Still, through my son, I have met many children who ARE "retarded", and it is not only they who are hurt by unkind verbiage but also their parents and the other people who love them.    The hurt caused by an unkind word has a rippling effect."


What happens if someone finds Your usage of the word "retarded" as hurtful and inappropriate and forms a negative opinion of you because of that? Should that word be the subject of a ban? I would hope not.


I'd rather people felt free to use the words they wished to, and that they understood there may well be consequences arising from doing so.


I don't believe society can successfully legislate peoples use of words and I also believe that society's reaction to someone using what society believe to be objectionable words, is far more effective.


Henry P

[Hemodoc]

And I gotta say, I was loving the idea of referring to dialysis as an after-school elective.

It' not really an elective for those of in need of renal replacement therapy unless you take the existential approach to dialysis that is.

[Henry P Snicklesnorter]

And I gotta say, I was loving the idea of referring to dialysis as an after-school elective.

It' not really an elective for those of in need of renal replacement therapy unless you take the existential approach to dialysis that is.

Strictly speaking, it is for some, who like me, were offered a kidney but for their own reasons, chose to go with dialysis instead.


Henry P

[Hemodoc]

And I gotta say, I was loving the idea of referring to dialysis as an after-school elective.

It' not really an elective for those of in need of renal replacement therapy unless you take the existential approach to dialysis that is.

Strictly speaking, it is for some, who like me, were offered a kidney but for their own reasons, chose to go with dialysis instead.


Henry P

I opted for dialysis instead of taking one of my wife's kidneys as well. She has had HTN and borderline DM for a while with a very strong family history of DM. The last thing I would want is to have her end up on dialysis as well years from now.

With daily dialysis, the options are better than conventional in-center hemo. But of course, a little tongue in cheek with my comment above since existentialists always put forth you have the right to choose to die. Other than that, you do have to have some sort of renal replacement method, none of which are very fun considering the procedures entailed. It would have been a whole lot more fun if the Lord had simply skipped this excursion into kidney failure, but not an option either.

[brenda seal]

I am sure your father has taught you the importance of good manners as well as your right to freedom of speech . Good manners are after all , consideration of others . I am a long way from my teenage years but have teenage grandchildren so I am familiar with the vernacular . I wonder if in the interests of freedom of speech you would use profanities whilst conversing with your parents or teachers ?
My father always said swearing and slang showed a distinct lack of vocabulary . You young man have wonderful language skills !
Something else my Dad used to say - You can't put old heads on young shoulders !

[willowtreewren]

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: Damn Dialysis.
It's an after school elective.

Isn't English an interesting language? I took the antecedent of "It" to be the speech or debate team that was an after school elective. Dialysis precluded participation in that elective, therefore, Damn Dialysis.

Aleta

[Riki]

There is also the possibility that someone may overhear you.  You may be talking just to a friend and may use an "objectionable" word, but if you are in public, few conversations are truly private.  There may be an unintented audience close by, and that audience may go away thinking you are a first class jerk, and you'd never know they had formed this opinion about you.  You'd never get the chance to prove otherwise.

G'day MM,



I believe it would be a tragedy to stop using a particular word or phrase, just because someone might overhear you and might form a certain opinion of you because of that. Taken to an extreme, we'd all end up mute. 


"Still, through my son, I have met many children who ARE "retarded", and it is not only they who are hurt by unkind verbiage but also their parents and the other people who love them.    The hurt caused by an unkind word has a rippling effect."


What happens if someone finds Your usage of the word "retarded" as hurtful and inappropriate and forms a negative opinion of you because of that? Should that word be the subject of a ban? I would hope not.


I'd rather people felt free to use the words they wished to, and that they understood there may well be consequences arising from doing so.


I don't believe society can successfully legislate peoples use of words and I also believe that society's reaction to someone using what society believe to be objectionable words, is far more effective.


Henry P

I agree with Henry.

Personally, if someone thinks I'm a first class jerk because of one objectionable word that I said in a conversation that didn't involve them, I wouldn't think that much of them either.  As I said before, I do use objectionable words at times when a politically correct substitution does not properly emote what I think or how I feel about what it is I'm talking about.

As for whoever it was that said that the use of swear words or slang means a lack of vocabulary, this is simply not true.  Thumbing through dictionaries and thesauruses over the years has given me quite a library, and I'm constantly looking up words before I use them to make sure that I'm using them in the proper context.  However, there are times with the f-word, used as an adjective, is what's needed to get the proper feeling across

I feel like I've said the same thing twice, here.. *L*

[Sydnee]

If you are interested in debate you could ask the home schooling groups in your area. If you are still in CA there are probably quite a few. They may have debate that is good with your schedule.

[MooseMom]

G'day MM,

Hiya!

I believe it would be a tragedy to stop using a particular word or phrase, just because someone might overhear you and might form a certain opinion of you because of that. Taken to an extreme, we'd all end up mute. 

I'm not sure it would be tragic to stop using a particular word or phrase, and I doubt we'd all end up mute if we stopped using words that we KNOW cause offense.  Most of us are able to read our audience and our surroundings and make good word choices accordingly.  Do you NEVER watch what you say? 

"Still, through my son, I have met many children who ARE "retarded", and it is not only they who are hurt by unkind verbiage but also their parents and the other people who love them.    The hurt caused by an unkind word has a rippling effect."


What happens if someone finds Your usage of the word "retarded" as hurtful and inappropriate and forms a negative opinion of you because of that? Should that word be the subject of a ban? I would hope not.

I don't use that word, anyway.  I used it in this particular thread for obvious reasons.  If I did use that word and I figured someone probably overheard me, yes, I would expect that that someone would think I was callous and unkind and thoughtless.  That's why I don't use that word.  But I am not calling for a "ban".  That's just silly.  AND it is unconstitutional.  I do not advocate creating the Word Police!

I'd rather people felt free to use the words they wished to, and that they understood there may well be consequences arising from doing so.

I think that's what we've all been saying all along!  But the impression I was getting was that there are people who don't much care or think about the consequences.  And that's fine by me!

I don't believe society can successfully legislate peoples use of words and I also believe that society's reaction to someone using what society believe to be objectionable words, is far more effective.


Henry P

I agree entirely, and that's the point we have been trying to make to iKAZ3D!

[Henry P Snicklesnorter]

I'm not sure it would be tragic to stop using a particular word or phrase, and I doubt we'd all end up mute if we stopped using words that we KNOW cause offense.  Most of us are able to read our audience and our surroundings and make good word choices accordingly.  Do you NEVER watch what you say? 

I must admit I can't ever see You ending up mute MM.   



I'm not conscious of watching what I say, - it's something that I have given little thought to.
I was raised to speak my mind and I quite naturally adopted my parents' values. They would certainly be regarded as "old fashioned" in this day and age, in fact they were even back then.   I've always been quite happy with that. 

I don't use that word, anyway.  I used it in this particular thread for obvious reasons.

Okaaaaayyy.


Henry P

[iKAZ3D]

G'day MM,

Hiya!

I believe it would be a tragedy to stop using a particular word or phrase, just because someone might overhear you and might form a certain opinion of you because of that. Taken to an extreme, we'd all end up mute. 

I'm not sure it would be tragic to stop using a particular word or phrase, and I doubt we'd all end up mute if we stopped using words that we KNOW cause offense.  Most of us are able to read our audience and our surroundings and make good word choices accordingly.  Do you NEVER watch what you say? 

"Still, through my son, I have met many children who ARE "retarded", and it is not only they who are hurt by unkind verbiage but also their parents and the other people who love them.    The hurt caused by an unkind word has a rippling effect."


What happens if someone finds Your usage of the word "retarded" as hurtful and inappropriate and forms a negative opinion of you because of that? Should that word be the subject of a ban? I would hope not.

I don't use that word, anyway.  I used it in this particular thread for obvious reasons.  If I did use that word and I figured someone probably overheard me, yes, I would expect that that someone would think I was callous and unkind and thoughtless.  That's why I don't use that word.  But I am not calling for a "ban".  That's just silly.  AND it is unconstitutional.  I do not advocate creating the Word Police!

I'd rather people felt free to use the words they wished to, and that they understood there may well be consequences arising from doing so.

I think that's what we've all been saying all along!  But the impression I was getting was that there are people who don't much care or think about the consequences.  And that's fine by me!

I don't believe society can successfully legislate peoples use of words and I also believe that society's reaction to someone using what society believe to be objectionable words, is far more effective.


Henry P

I agree entirely, and that's the point we have been trying to make to iKAZ3D!

What if I talk about 'retarding' a vehicle? Am I to be called out on that for using the word than? Words have multiple meanings. To be called out as offensive is...well...retarded.

[Riki]

I do think that if I had been in the scenario that iKAZ3D gave, I probably wouldn't have apologized to the person who was offended.  I would have told them to quit listening into my conversation and mind their own damn business.  I think that if you're going to listen into someone else's conversation and they say something that you might find offensive, it's your own fault for listening.

I know that when I'm out for coffee with the girls, some of the topics we discuss could be considered offensive.  In those instances, we might try to keep our voices down so only those of us in the group hear it.  BUT if someone were to come up to us tell us that they were offended by our conversation, I'm sure that one of us, and probably not me because I'm too quiet, would tell them to go take a flying leap, and most likely not in those words.