Banning Words?

[chiromac]

This not an issue of free speech, it is an issue of class & respect. Thinking before you open your mouth shows, just shows you're growing-up not a juvenile.

[iKAZ3D]

Yes, you are entitled to use those words that offend others, but you need to understand that some people will be offended and be willing to accept the rebuke.  They are as free to voice their opinion on your choice of words, just as you are entitled to use such words.   You wan to offend?  you need to get a thicker skin if you don't like what they say.  Why say it if it offends?  would you like it if a derogatory term applied to kidney failure, would you like it if someone used it around you?  You need to grow up!

I NEED to grow up? Simply because I want to exercise my freedom of speech and not his freedom of offense, I NEED to grow up? Makes perfect sense.

If someone said something derogatory about Kidney Failure, I'd continue listening.

As I said, this was not a direct message to him, this was a conversation to my other friend that was not even about handicapped people rather a kind of inside joke if you will between Bree and I. Jessie though it his business to make it about him simply because I used one word he doesn't like.

Just to clarify, I have gone over this argument with him before: that I will not change my vocabulary for him or any other friend. I am not wired that way. I apologize that you got the short hay stick and got the bad luck with your brother, but that doesn't mean we have to bow down to your every desire.


Let me give you an example of how I feel about how this is like.



I'm going to randomly pick a word that I think is silly and you can no longer use it. In fact, it is banned. If you use it, you are to be jailed because I...well...I have that authority now.

Fundamental

It has mental in it implying special needs...and it has fund in it. That implies giving money to inanimate objects! (Understand that people can make up anything they so desire to get their offense across)

[monrein]

Words are powerful because we attribute meaning to them, they can mean different things to different people and their meaning can evolve or change over time.  They can express, caress, soothe, wound, clarify and obfuscate. 

When a group of people try to take back a word by using it themselves , nigger and faggot are but two examples, they are attempting to disarm the word of it's power to maim.  These two words in particular have been used to seriously hurt feelings and have also historically been involved in incidents of physical harm and even murder.  Words do not have equal weight because if they did they would lose their power to express meaning.   

I used to work with developmentally delayed kids 12 to 18 years old and the hurtful power of the word "retard" was unknown and unimaginable to me prior to that experience.  I knew kids who would have bruised chests from repeatedly banging their fists against them imitating a gesture that other kids did in conjunction with that word.  So much time I spent trying to reassure maimed young people that they had any value at all as they struggled to fit in and achieve anything in a cruel school environment, all because other young people were thoughtless or callous, indifferent or just plain mean.  Self hate in the extreme and all because of being born with a handicap they were struggling to understand themselves.  I have had sessions trying to explain exactly what the word meant both factually, because these kids were factually "retarded", in the mild range of developmental delay, and figuratively as they heard the word used to describe things from actions to objects.  They heard it everyday and everywhere and they noticed it every time because it held particular meaning for them. They also noticed that sometimes it was used lightly, playfully and other times with intent to hurt a little and sometimes a lot.  They also used it themselves against each other and knew just how much it could maim.     

I really love words and I want them to have meaning.  I want them to be capable of things, to have the capacity to influence and comfort which also means that they will be able to destroy and cause problems.  And that is where we, as individuals come in.  How we understand nd use words ought to count in my opinion.  If a word hurts someone I want to know that and I don't want to hurt people.  I, like everyone else, have said things in anger or frustration in order to have impact, to hurt or insult and my words weren't random.  We each know the words that hold special meaning for those we know well and it can take a long time to repair damage from hastily spoken ill-chosen words. 

I could say much more about words and intent but I have things to do.   I'm hoping to buy a beautiful paperbark maple today to plant in my backyard and am therefore off to ponder the differences between an acer griseum and a gleditsia triacanthos....which are two entirely different trees.

Be as gentle as you can in the world it's harsh enough as it is.

[iKAZ3D]

Now, let me first say, I am only doing this to make a point. im not doing it to be a jerk... but...
(from another thread)

How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.

If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?

......... but arent you doing this very same thing your friends did, here?

In a sense, yes, but no.

Religion is a whole different spectrum. Words are words, vocabulary.

Religion is a belief, faith. He has his freedom of religion but it also has to abide by the other consitutional rights which say you don't have to have a religion (reading between the lines) to be a citizen...

He strecthed that by ressing his beliefs on me.

[chiromac]

You keep proving it, the more you argue. Enjoy your big boy words!  Maybe someday you will understand.

[amanda100wilson]

So eloquently put Monrein.  I could have said this in a different way and it would not,have had the impact that what you said, had.  Aahhh, the power of words.

[iKAZ3D]

 

iKAZ3D.... is your Dad helping you?

                     

No, he is not, we had a discussion along with my friend Coral about this after this argument arose. My dad is in agreement with me, however my friend Coral seems to lean towards the idea of "feelings matter over rights".

[iKAZ3D]

I am noticing that many of you neglect to notice the context of my use of the word. It was not directed as a remark towards sspecial needs people nor as a derogatory statement, but a joke he knew we stated. He thought it his business to make ot a problem.

Everyone is offended by everything nowadays. I'm should be offended by the way the poster above me has taken to responding to me, but I haven't.

[iKAZ3D]

I have been reading through your posts, and have just read what DesertDancer is going through.  one person has real issues, not manufacturing them.

What does this have to do with my thread?

[rocker]

iKAZ3D.... is your Dad helping you?

                     

No, he is not, we had a discussion along with my friend Coral about this after this argument arose. My dad is in agreement with me, however my friend Coral seems to lean towards the idea of "feelings matter over rights".

And here is where you truly show immaturity. By continually insisting that the issue here is "my rights!!", you simply sound like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum.

At no point in this thread, or any other that I saw, did you describe a situation in which your rights were violated in any way. You were asked to stop using a word, and you've thrown a public hissy fit that's now lasted several days. No one does anything to any "right" you have by asking you not to behave like a child calling hurtful names.

But, as you put it on another thread, are you giving us a monumental display of "butthurt"! Because someone else asked you to respect their feelings.

I assume that you are merely trolling for arguments.  Because yesterday I was catching up after not reading the board for a few days, and the first two threads I saw were this one, in which you complain about being asked not to use a word, and another in which you demand that gay people stop talking about things (or, "using words") that you don't want to hear.

So in case you're serious, let me explain this.  No one's rights have been violated. No one is going to jail you for saying deliberately offensive things to people, after they took the time to point out to you that they find it offensive. No one is going to jail gay people for offending you. The people you offend will merely conclude that you're a jerk, and stop dealing with you. You can stop dealing with gay people that you find offensive.

But that's ok if they avoid you, right?  Because they were clearly upsetting you anyway.

So put on your big boy pants, and figure out that this is the way the world works.

And note that I, personally, do not care who you offend. So I'm not asking you to stop doing anything.

[monrein]

Words that can hurt do not need to be directed towards anyone in particular.  "That's so gay " or "what a retard" are not meant as compliments and aren't heard as such either.  People often use them without really thinking about them and afterwards can be terribly sorry if they hurt anyone unintentionally.  I think that political correctness is silly because words then actually don't express what the user really means or thinks. 

I personally don't want to hurt anyone intentionally or unintentionally and if I do then I want to avoid repeating the hurt.  The old adage "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me" is just not true.  Children who hear unkind things even indirectly are often damaged in terrible ways and I have worked with adults and kids who will spend their entire lives trying to overcome some very deep scars that get ripped open again and again by mere words.  If the word retard holds no real meaning for you, you are indeed very fortunate and perhaps fundamental can serve the same purpose.  The word fundamental overheard by one of my former clients would not ever cause her to talk about suicide because it pierced her so deeply and made her feel so awful.

[iKAZ3D]

iKAZ3D.... is your Dad helping you?

                     

No, he is not, we had a discussion along with my friend Coral about this after this argument arose. My dad is in agreement with me, however my friend Coral seems to lean towards the idea of "feelings matter over rights".

And here is where you truly show immaturity. By continually insisting that the issue here is "my rights!!", you simply sound like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum.

At no point in this thread, or any other that I saw, did you describe a situation in which your rights were violated in any way. You were asked to stop using a word, and you've thrown a public hissy fit that's now lasted several days. No one does anything to any "right" you have by asking you not to behave like a child calling hurtful names.

But, as you put it on another thread, are you giving us a monumental display of "butthurt"! Because someone else asked you to respect their feelings.

I assume that you are merely trolling for arguments.  Because yesterday I was catching up after not reading the board for a few days, and the first two threads I saw were this one, in which you complain about being asked not to use a word, and another in which you demand that gay people stop talking about things (or, "using words") that you don't want to hear.

So in case you're serious, let me explain this.  No one's rights have been violated. No one is going to jail you for saying deliberately offensive things to people, after they took the time to point out to you that they find it offensive. No one is going to jail gay people for offending you. The people you offend will merely conclude that you're a jerk, and stop dealing with you. You can stop dealing with gay people that you find offensive.

But that's ok if they avoid you, right?  Because they were clearly upsetting you anyway.

So put on your big boy pants, and figure out that this is the way the world works.

And note that I, personally, do not care who you offend. So I'm not asking you to stop doing anything.

Ok.


That's nice of you.

i guess I'llquit "trolling" as you so put it. I've had enough. Clearly the members here are not as supporter as I had hoped. You are all very narrow minded and look beyond the context of the situation.


Could a moderator please delete my account here? I'll deal with dialysis and life issues a different way because this isn't working.

[rocker]

Could a moderator please delete my account here? I'll deal with dialysis and life issues a different way because this isn't working.

Enough with the butthurt already.  There isn't a single dialysis issue on this thread, and you know it.

But if you want to take your ball and go home because people aren't "supporting" you, that is your "right".

But to look at the other side once again, ask yourself who you have supported and helped with dialysis issues in your sojourn here.

Support is a two-way street.  Just like offensive words.

[iKAZ3D]

Could a moderator please delete my account here? I'll deal with dialysis and life issues a different way because this isn't working.

Enough with the butthurt already.  There isn't a single dialysis issue on this thread, and you know it.

But if you want to take your ball and go home because people aren't "supporting" you, that is your "right".

But to look at the other side once again, ask yourself who you have supported and helped with dialysis issues in your sojourn here.

Support is a two-way street.  Just like offensive words.

You're being rude with your rebuttal, so yeah.

I'm not asking for dropping to your knees and saying I'm right, but jesus, you could at least look at the context of the situation and not just the one word like he did.

Ignorant.

[MooseMom]

iKAZ3D, I hate to see anyone leave IHD because we are mainly a community that tries to support people coping with renal disease.

But since we are a community composed of people with very different opinions, and since we are not defined solely by our disease, some of us like to come onto threads like this and blather back and forth about issues for which we have no real answer.  But these conversations are NOT the reason why we are here.  These threads are just diversions from the really hard life maimed by kidney failure.

I don't know how many support sites you have visited, but it occurs to me, and I may be very wrong here, that perhaps for once you are speaking with people who are not in your peer group, and this has caused some difficulties in communication.  Most of us are older and have already sifted through issues that you are presenting which, for you, are relatively new.

We support anyone who is a renal patient, and in this context, we support you.

[rocker]

Look, it sucks to be a sick kid.  Many of the people on this board are, or were, sick kids. And I would venture to guess that every single one of them got angry about it at some point.  So it's ok to be angry. That may show itself as anger at the illness, it may show itself as anger at the tulip you tripped over while walking into the house.

As a sick kid, it can become easy to believe that the world revolves around you.  Because in many cases, because of the care you require, your family's world may revolve around you. Some families worry about upsetting the sick child, and so will not argue with anything they say, or correct them, or do anything that they fear might make them unwell. It's easy to become convinced that you should be deferred to in all things.

But you don't want to remain a sick child. Lots of sick children are now adults functioning perfectly well in society.

If that's not your goal, if you want to remain a sick child forever, that's fine.  But if you don't, you need to start becoming aware of the world around you, and the people in it.  People with their own burdens, and hopes, and dreams. You need to understand that there are people both better and worse off than you - and they deserve the same compassion you do.

It's not all about what other people can do for you. It's also about what you can do for others.  It's easy to feel broken and worthless - start asking yourself what you have to offer others.  Can you reach out to other sick kids and say "Look, I'm still here, I am surviving!  Let's fight this together!"? Do you have a talent you can share?

Dying is easy.  It's the living part that's hard.  Get on it.

[iKAZ3D]

iKAZ3D, I hate to see anyone leave IHD because we are mainly a community that tries to support people coping with renal disease.

But since we are a community composed of people with very different opinions, and since we are not defined solely by our disease, some of us like to come onto threads like this and blather back and forth about issues for which we have no real answer.  But these conversations are NOT the reason why we are here.  These threads are just diversions from the really hard life maimed by kidney failure.

I don't know how many support sites you have visited, but it occurs to me, and I may be very wrong here, that perhaps for once you are speaking with people who are not in your peer group, and this has caused some difficulties in communication.  Most of us are older and have already sifted through issues that you are presenting which, for you, are relatively new.

We support anyone who is a renal patient, and in this context, we support you.

Well, rocker isn't very supporting. I don't feel supported. So I'm leaving. Clearly my mind is different from yours and you guys don't like it.

So that's fine with me.

[Poppylicious]

You actually strike me as an intelligent young man so I can't quite fathom why you're not willing to respect your friend and his wishes.  He's asked you more than once to not use a word which offends him and yet you still continue to do so.  It doesn't matter in which context you use it, it's the fact that you still use it whilst he's around knowing how he feels about it.  Part of being mature is knowing when to say something and when to refrain or at least adapt our speech/language.  If you want to continue using words that you know to be offensive then only use them whilst with people who are like-minded and you know don't find them offensive. I don't condone you saying that word though; the R word was a foul and nasty word to use when I was at school and that was twenty years ago (in the UK).

For what it's worth I doubt that he thinks the existence of his brother is "bad luck".

Don't leave ihd just because people don't agree with you.  We are an incredibly supportive bunch of people and there's oodles of love here.

 

[MooseMom]

We have a lot of "different" minds on IHD!

Read rocker's post again, and you will see some very supportive advice there.  You have a lot to offer here on IHD.  It is of great value to have a smart and articulate 16 year old who is on dialysis; such an IHD member can change another 16 year old dialysis patient's life.  And your age is just one component.  The most important thing you have to offer is your EXPERIENCE.  I'm sure you've read the boards enough to see posts from so many people who may be older and more mature than you but are lacking in the experience you have with dialysis related crap.  You have the opportunity to make a real difference in the lives of others.  Take that opportunity.  You can really make a difference here.   

[iKAZ3D]

You actually strike me as an intelligent young man so I can't quite fathom why you're not willing to respect your friend and his wishes.  He's asked you more than once to not use a word which offends him and yet you still continue to do so.  It doesn't matter in which context you use it, it's the fact that you still use it whilst he's around knowing how he feels about it.  Part of being mature is knowing when to say something and when to refrain or at least adapt our speech/language.  If you want to continue using words that you know to be offensive then only use them whilst with people who are like-minded and you know don't find them offensive. I don't condone you saying that word though; the R word was a foul and nasty word to use when I was at school and that was twenty years ago (in the UK).

For what it's worth I doubt that he thinks the existence of his brother is "bad luck".

Don't leave ihd just because people don't agree with you.  We are an incredibly supportive bunch of people and there's oodles of love here.

 

Well, I gues i'm not intelligent.

[rocker]

Well, rocker isn't very supporting. I don't feel supported. So I'm leaving.

Another part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your own actions, and not blaming them on others.

I've seen you do that several times now.

[MooseMom]

Words that can hurt do not need to be directed towards anyone in particular.  "That's so gay " or "what a retard" are not meant as compliments and aren't heard as such either.  People often use them without really thinking about them and afterwards can be terribly sorry if they hurt anyone unintentionally.

Oh, I had to really talk to my son about this one.  He called me one day and told me how all of his mates would say, "That's so gay."  I could tell that he really didn't think this was a good idea but that at the same time, it was his peer group talking this way, so would it be OK for him to say it, too?  He's neural normal enough to suspect that some word isn't a good one to use but is autistic enough to not really be sure!  LOL!  And since he doesn't want to appear "different" to his peer group, it makes this sort of thing so much more difficult.  So I had to pull out the big guns and ask him how he would feel if someone made some snide comment about autistics, like, "Oh, that's so autistic!"  Thankfully, he's neural normal enough to get THAT message.

[amanda100wilson]

I am just to illustrate that the points that you are compelled to rant on,, have very little substance when compared to whar some other people are going through at this momemt. 

[Hemodoc]

I have to agree with the kid.  It is refreshing that the public screwlls haven't brain washed you.  Oh, yah, YOU aren't going to public Screwools.  When I was a kid "retarded" was used on everyone who messed up. If I tripped it was (what a tard).  Then they got offended and so changed it to "Special" (if I tripped it was "oh, that was special"). Now I have noticed that the proper word is "Delayed". 

When you use a word to describe something that is  hard to describe .... sooner or later the word to describe something gets offensive.  Let say the word DEAD  he is DEAD  oh, that is too harsh.... he is deceased oooh that doesn't sound good how about "passed away".   You just learn to roll your eyes and roll with it.

   

I am going to be kind and will give you fair warning.  Do not use the word "retarded" within my sight.  If you do, I will call you on it.  That word is offensive to me.  I hope this has cleared up any confusion.

Moosemom, I must confess to have been guilty calling my friends a retard when someone did something stupid when I was a kid. It was just part of our vernacular and wasn't really an offensive term amongst those in our gang of friends.

However, I do understand why you would be upset with such a term today and do support your objection to the term. It can be hurtful especially for some one with a challenged child who still garners your love and attention. So, yes, I believe you are correct in your reproach of others for using that term.

[Hemodoc]

Now, let me first say, I am only doing this to make a point. im not doing it to be a jerk... but...
(from another thread)

How about this, this is my thread, and I declare it a religion free zone...So if you wish to talk about religion, please, be my guest...In a different thread. I'm sick of you "justifying" yourself. You're being very arrogant. You seem to think you have every right to impose on our beliefs because you're Christian and because God says to.

If God told you to jump off a bridge, would you?

......... but arent you doing this very same thing your friends did, here?

In a sense, yes, but no.

Religion is a whole different spectrum. Words are words, vocabulary.

Religion is a belief, faith. He has his freedom of religion but it also has to abide by the other consitutional rights which say you don't have to have a religion (reading between the lines) to be a citizen...

He strecthed that by ressing his beliefs on me.

Nope, you are wrong again kid. I only expressed my views on the gay rights issue and why I opposed them. That is speaking my own mind, not imposing on you or anyone else.