IRS targeted Tea Party: Abuse of Power by Obama Administration

[okarol]

The quote issue with the long chains is actually due to the way IHD has their quote settings in place. Most forums quote ONLY the latest comment, not the entire chain. If this is an issue with the mods and others, then ask the admin to change the setting to ONLY the latest comment and not the entire chain.

Thank you.

Sorry, we are unable to change the settings.
okarol/admin

[monrein]

In order to quote selected parts of a post, simply press the quote button then highlight and delete the parts you don't want to include.  Be sure to leave the word "quote" at the top and bottom and what you are commenting on specifically should appear in purple. 

[cariad]

No, you are simply quite mistaken to blame the victim. Isn't that the accusation many make against rape victims. Well, understand that the IRS did indeed attempt to "rape" these right leaning organizations.

This speaks for itself.

Absolutely. This comparison is so incredibly offensive, and what follows is even worse. Comparing some right-leaning organizations being scrutinized by the IRS to violent sexual assault. Don't even bother trying to argue that that is not what you meant, you define it by saying 'rape victims'. I dare you to walk into a police station and state 'I've been raped' and see if they want to hear some piffle about how it's also a plant. Did no one learn context in school? This is so utterly depressing that people here of all places feel it's appropriate to make light of this when on the very same forum we have people agreeing that using 'retard' as an insult is outside the bounds of decency. (I agree, by the by, but that's not really important to my point.)

You know what a better analogy for this would have been? Profiling at an airport. Minorties, people of Arab descent, and likely a whole host of other foreigners dread coming to the US for the very reason that they are treated like criminals before they are even officially let in to the country. They are paying for the actions of a horrible few. My early memories of the Tea Party are of them arrogantly whining about having to pay taxes, labeling it as somehow un-American. (That's a puzzler. Don't financially support your country. How patriotic.) If you ally yourselves with people who state that taxes are evil tools of a socialist President, perhaps you should not act too surprised that people want a second look at your tax docs.

In closing, I'd like to quote Epoman, because it was words like this that convinced me that I could join this forum, speak my mind, disagree with others, but that there was a clear line that would not be crossed ANYWHERE on this forum. (First quote provided for context)

I really hope Epoman is true to his word and doesn't delete ppl's posts. I've had an awful time with relationships too. Now I just give up and resign myself to the fact it's not going to happen. I use call girls/prostitutes now. They come to my house for an hour and I can do whatever I like to them. Something to think about, friend.

I already told you I will let people rant, vent, yell and scream however If a post is too vulgar or offensive to our female members I will lock it faster than 450 blood flow. 

[Gerald Lively]

Internal Revenue Service

HemoDoc tells us he gets his information from Fox News and that he is a big fan of the Patriot Act and (take a deep breath) George W. Bush.  Really!

You didn’t like wiretapping of your favorite Fox News reporter and wiretapping has been approved several times including the Patriot Act.  How do you do that?  You like it until you don’t like it?

The IRS.  Well folks, this will go the way of Benghazi. Due to changes in the rules by the US Supreme court during a time when Congress has been making across the board cuts without concern for consequences, the applications for 501’s increased from several hundred a year to 70,000.  Faced with no possibility of adding staff, management made certain decisions.

Management.  There isn’t any.  The IRS Director position is held vacant by the Republican Party along with a hundred plus other appointments.  Someone was asked to hold the position until the Directorship was decided.  It is a rule in management that those who “Act” as management try to keep things even.  In other words, don’t do anything that stands out. 

What does a manager do with 200 people and a caseload of 70,000?  The IRS does what it does on personal income taxes, it selects the most likely to make errors.  Where did I get that information?  From the IRS.  It all makes sense unless your ox got gored and you are searching for a conspiracy.

gl

[Hemodoc]

Internal Revenue Service

HemoDoc tells us he gets his information from Fox News and that he is a big fan of the Patriot Act and (take a deep breath) George W. Bush.  Really!

You didn’t like wiretapping of your favorite Fox News reporter and wiretapping has been approved several times including the Patriot Act.  How do you do that?  You like it until you don’t like it?

The IRS.  Well folks, this will go the way of Benghazi. Due to changes in the rules by the US Supreme court during a time when Congress has been making across the board cuts without concern for consequences, the applications for 501’s increased from several hundred a year to 70,000.  Faced with no possibility of adding staff, management made certain decisions.

Management.  There isn’t any.  The IRS Director position is held vacant by the Republican Party along with a hundred plus other appointments.  Someone was asked to hold the position until the Directorship was decided.  It is a rule in management that those who “Act” as management try to keep things even.  In other words, don’t do anything that stands out. 

What does a manager do with 200 people and a caseload of 70,000?  The IRS does what it does on personal income taxes, it selects the most likely to make errors.  Where did I get that information?  From the IRS.  It all makes sense unless your ox got gored and you are searching for a conspiracy.

gl

Gerald, what part of my posts speaking AGAINST Bush, the Patriot Act etc have you missed over the years. No, you are wrong again my friend, but I am glad you are still doing well personally.

If you cannot see abuse of power in this issue, then so be it.

God bless,

Peter

[Rerun]

It could be that the IRS did what it did to meet deadlines.  BUT it also depends which side of the door you are on.  If the Dem's had been the way fastest to the ends, then all hell would break loose. 

So, lighten up on the Republicans.  Dems would do the exact same thing or more.

[Gerald Lively]

Ah yes, the IRS thingy was a disaster waiting to happen.  The Senate failed to do its duty in making all of those appointments. leaving them empty.  Who would do such an un-American thing?  Not someone who wants good government.  Were I more cynical I might say this was a set up by the GOP.  Then again, it is only a controversy, no one broke the law.

[Simon Dog]

They are paying for the actions of a horrible few.

The IRS profiling is not the going after conservative orgs because a few did something wrong, but an attempt to impair the political activities of groups on one side of the political spectrum to advance the other side.    Totally different than "profiling" because an individual of one group is statistically more likely to be a terrorist than a native born grandmother from Iowa.

[Rerun]

Now they are going to show all the abuse the IRS did with meetings, conventions and partying.  Maybe SKYPE meetings should be mandatory.  Everyone stays in there own office and it is free.

[cariad]

They are paying for the actions of a horrible few.

The IRS profiling is not the going after conservative orgs because a few did something wrong, but an attempt to impair the political activities of groups on one side of the political spectrum to advance the other side.    Totally different than "profiling" because an individual of one group is statistically more likely to be a terrorist than a native born grandmother from Iowa.

Well, thanks for checking in from what Bill Maher calls 'the Conservative bubble'.

I read a great article on how Israelis profile at their airports. The don't do it by race or gender, they look at behavioural clues. Statistics doesn't really come into it. Shrieking that Obama is a socialist and you don't believe in paying taxes is a pretty clear behavioural clue. My father is a tax attorney, has owned his own business for over 30 years, has been a liberal since birth, and has been audited every single year since he went into business for himself. He knows exactly why and doesn't complain about it. I am proud to say that he has never likened it to sexual assault, for he would find that comparison asinine.

When I have more time I will try to find a clear, short article I read a while ago about why the IRS has profiled these groups seeking charity status. And in my initial search, I found an article with a headline describing it as profiling. I hadn't seen that article before I wrote this, still haven't read it, but obviously I am not the only one who finds that that analogy rings true.

[rocker]

The funny thing is that, despite the fairy story that's been pushed by some in the media, the profiling was not limited to right-wing groups.

What they're trying to enforce is a law that says the group must not be political. Some court later interpreted that as being "primarily" nonpolitical - whatever that's supposed to mean. So, yeah, it's crazy, crazy that they targeted political groups - left and right. This was not about being "conservative", it was about being blatantly political. Read any article about this, and way down near the bottom you'll see "liberal groups were also targeted...."

But the right's outrage machine continues to tell you it was "just us - poor, poor victims that we are".

It's not true.

[Hemodoc]

Here is a brief video of McDermitt of WA blasting the "Tea Party" groups as being responsible for the extra scrutiny which is then brought into focus by Paul Ryan in his response. Clearly, the IRS scrutiny is politically motivated which is very dangerous abuse of power.

http://chicksontheright.com/posts/item/24306-ryan-smacks-mcdermott

It now looks like the EPA also engaged in the same sort of political intimidation.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/04/epa-accused-singling-out-conservative-groups-amid-irs-scandal/

As one commentator stated, the comparison is not with Obama and Nixon, but Obama and Putin. Failing to understand how fragile liberty and freedom are underscores the support of this IRS inquisition of conservative groups. One party rule is not a pretty phenomenon wherever it has happened. If that is what you folks are looking for, just be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

An administration in power targeting people because of their beliefs is a very dangerous precedent.

[rocker]

As one commentator stated, the comparison is not with Obama and Nixon, but Obama and Putin.

And this is why most people have difficulty taking this group seriously.

[Hemodoc]

As one commentator stated, the comparison is not with Obama and Nixon, but Obama and Putin.

And this is why most people have difficulty taking this group seriously.

That ultimately will be to your disfavor. You should have listened, but by then it will be too late. And it is not just the Dems that are a problem either. Even the venerable Reagan cost much in religious liberty although few understand what he did in that regard January 1, 1984.  So, if you choose to not see the incremental power grab by the Feds, so be it, but yes, you should be dismayed but instead you press on as if political opposition to Obama is based in ignorance and deceit.  The freedoms that have defined America are indeed in grave peril.  Once again, if that is not obvious, so be it.

[YLGuy]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[rocker]

Yeah.  I was raised in the Armageddon culture. I've been hearing "the sky is falling" for my entire life.  I remember being terrified as a child reading "prophecy" that told me that America "would not reach its 200th birthday."

Funny how that sort of talk also ramps way up with Democratic presidents.  I heard the exact same things about Clinton.  Dictator.  Corrupt administration.  Worse than <bogeyman-of-the-day>. Police state around the corner. UN takeover, ARM YOURSELF!!!

You'd think they'd get a new tune at some point.

Current gossip is that even Republicans are telling (convicted criminal) Issa to dial it way, way back.  When you're making people like Rush Limbaugh look sane, you are so far off the rails you can't even hear the train anymore.

[Gerald Lively]

Being from California, I may be more familiar with Darrell Issa than most.  And I have watched these so-called controversies with great interest noting that nothing has blossomed, no law has even been alleged as broken, and strangely, those on the right are more than willing to buy any story of law breaking or ethical breach attributed to the President if it comes from Mr. Issa.

Look up Darrell Issa on Wikipedia.  Be objective.     

gl

[Hemodoc]

Being from California, I may be more familiar with Darrell Issa than most.  And I have watched these so-called controversies with great interest noting that nothing has blossomed, no law has even been alleged as broken, and strangely, those on the right are more than willing to buy any story of law breaking or ethical breach attributed to the President if it comes from Mr. Issa.

Look up Darrell Issa on Wikipedia.  Be objective.     

gl

Recent testimony by one of the victims recently alleged that the IRS committed  felony against him and his organization and that they had proof. We will have to wait and see what the facts are, but you may be a bit premature pronouncing that no crimes were committed Gerald.

Secondly both the Dems and the GOP have their attack dogs. Gerald, since you like history and such, have you looked into the late Sen Byrd's checkered past?

In any case, Issa is not the issue in this scandal. The IRS itself admits the wrong doing. That is the focus.

[Hemodoc]

Yeah.  I was raised in the Armageddon culture. I've been hearing "the sky is falling" for my entire life.  I remember being terrified as a child reading "prophecy" that told me that America "would not reach its 200th birthday."

Funny how that sort of talk also ramps way up with Democratic presidents.  I heard the exact same things about Clinton.  Dictator.  Corrupt administration.  Worse than <bogeyman-of-the-day>. Police state around the corner. UN takeover, ARM YOURSELF!!!

You'd think they'd get a new tune at some point.

Current gossip is that even Republicans are telling (convicted criminal) Issa to dial it way, way back.  When you're making people like Rush Limbaugh look sane, you are so far off the rails you can't even hear the train anymore.

Sorry to disappoint, but no sky is falling my friend. Even the left leaning NY Times is questioning Obama over his use of the Patriot Act to spy on ordinary citizens. Abuse of power is simply that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?_r=1&

If you are OK with a government clearly exhibiting very dangerous behaviors, so be it. Many are not including the left leaning NY Times.

[Gerald Lively]

HemoDoc;

I am surprised at your comments on this thread.  Think back and recall our postings not too long ago.  Consider the world wide scope that some units, military or otherwise, perform.  Some activities have been going on for decades.

/////////////////////////

Gerald Lively . . . . . with the U. S. Army Security Agency at the 14th U.S. A.S.A. Field Station, Hakata, Japan (military intelligence) 1958, 59, 60, NSA. Deputy Administrator, Butte County, California. City Manager, Yakutat, Alaska, Powerlifter.



gl

[Hemodoc]

Probably longer. One of my patients was an expert on the Japanese military of WWII.

He showed me two declassified documents from WWII that he was bringing to a conference on the Japanese military of WWII.  They were a fascinating example of how the public historical accounts were completely at odds with the official classified accounts for events prior to WWII. I assume that today it is still the same.

However, back to the topic of this thread, abuse of power if unchecked is not a pretty event. The power to tax is the power to destroy. When used against political opponents, where is the line between an open democracy and outright fascism?

[Hober Mallow]

So it turns out the IRS targeted progressive groups as well. No controversy. No scandal. What a shock.

No political group should get tax exempt status. Period.

Republicans better focus on something else, because they've got an impossible task trying to gain sympathy from the public for subsidizing the political activity of groups taking advantage of a wildly unpopular supreme court decision in order to secure big bucks from anonymous sources, buy elections, and buy off officials.

Yeah, um... good luck with that.

[Hemodoc]

Dear Hober, is that why the two IRS supervisors plead the 5th during congressional testimony?

The folks applying for tax exempt status are not the people under investigation my friend. If you don't like the laws, lobby your reps to change them.

As far as the GOP gaining ground, no you are probably right, the demographics appear quite in their disfavor especially if the immigration "reform" goes through with 11 million more added to the Dems.

I am not sure I would gloat over those facts though, even friends of mine who are on the left are "not happy" with Obama. The freedoms we have enjoyed are vanishing. Is that something to celebrate my friend?

[YLGuy]