Tough Decisions Ahead - advice please

[galvo]

A woman is having an affair during the day while her husband is at work. Her 9 year old son comes home unexpectedly, sees them and hides in the bedroom closet to watch. The woman's husband also comes home so she puts her lover in the closet not realizing that her son is hiding in there.
 
The little boy says ''It's dark in here.'' The man replies ''Yes, it is'.' Boy - "I have a baseball." Man - "That's nice."Boy - "Want to buy it?"  Man - "No, thanks." Boy - "My dad's outside." Man - "OK, how much?" Boy - "$250"
 
In the next few weeks, it happens again that the boy and the lover are in the closet together once again.
 Boy - "Dark in here." Man - "Yes, it is." Boy - "I have a baseball glove." The lover remembering the last time, asks the boy, "How much?" Boy - "$750" Man - "Fine."
 
A few days later, the father says to the boy, "Grab your glove, let's go outside and have a game of catch."
The boy says, "I can't, I sold my baseball and my glove." The father asks, "How much did you sell them for?"
 Boy - "$1,000" The father says, "That's terrible to overcharge your friends like that... that is way more than those two things cost. I'm going to take you to church and make you confess." They go to the church and the father makes the little boy sit in the confession booth and he closes the door. The boy says, "Dark in here."
 
The priest says, "Don't start that shit again!''.

[willowtreewren]

A woman is having an affair during the day while her husband is at work. Her 9 year old son comes home unexpectedly, sees them and hides in the bedroom closet to watch. The woman's husband also comes home so she puts her lover in the closet not realizing that her son is hiding in there.
 
The little boy says ''It's dark in here.'' The man replies ''Yes, it is'.' Boy - "I have a baseball." Man - "That's nice."Boy - "Want to buy it?"  Man - "No, thanks." Boy - "My dad's outside." Man - "OK, how much?" Boy - "$250"
 
In the next few weeks, it happens again that the boy and the lover are in the closet together once again.
 Boy - "Dark in here." Man - "Yes, it is." Boy - "I have a baseball glove." The lover remembering the last time, asks the boy, "How much?" Boy - "$750" Man - "Fine."
 
A few days later, the father says to the boy, "Grab your glove, let's go outside and have a game of catch."
The boy says, "I can't, I sold my baseball and my glove." The father asks, "How much did you sell them for?"
 Boy - "$1,000" The father says, "That's terrible to overcharge your friends like that... that is way more than those two things cost. I'm going to take you to church and make you confess." They go to the church and the father makes the little boy sit in the confession booth and he closes the door. The boy says, "Dark in here."
 
The priest says, "Don't start that shit again!''.

 

Should have seen that coming....

[cariad]

A woman is having an affair during the day while her husband is at work. Her 9 year old son comes home unexpectedly, sees them and hides in the bedroom closet to watch. The woman's husband also comes home so she puts her lover in the closet not realizing that her son is hiding in there.
 
The little boy says ''It's dark in here.'' The man replies ''Yes, it is'.' Boy - "I have a baseball." Man - "That's nice."Boy - "Want to buy it?"  Man - "No, thanks." Boy - "My dad's outside." Man - "OK, how much?" Boy - "$250"
 
In the next few weeks, it happens again that the boy and the lover are in the closet together once again.
 Boy - "Dark in here." Man - "Yes, it is." Boy - "I have a baseball glove." The lover remembering the last time, asks the boy, "How much?" Boy - "$750" Man - "Fine."
 
A few days later, the father says to the boy, "Grab your glove, let's go outside and have a game of catch."
The boy says, "I can't, I sold my baseball and my glove." The father asks, "How much did you sell them for?"
 Boy - "$1,000" The father says, "That's terrible to overcharge your friends like that... that is way more than those two things cost. I'm going to take you to church and make you confess." They go to the church and the father makes the little boy sit in the confession booth and he closes the door. The boy says, "Dark in here."
 
The priest says, "Don't start that shit again!''.

So you're saying send Dyl to Catholic school as they'll turn him into a shrewd negotiator. Why didn't you just say so?! Decision made!

[Ladystardust24]

@JustJen Heh, I'm also a humanist.  

Okay, so I was raised in a town that has a heavy Jewish population. That said, that doesn't mean everyone is, but it did take me by surprise when my friend's father called me a dirty Jew. I've also been called worse.
 
But I did go to Shabbot every Saturday. After awhile, getting older and growing more as a person, I realized the parts I agreed with, were more general humanitarian things. (Don't do harm, care for your fellow human, animal and earth... ECT) But there was a lot I didn't agree with. Because we've advanced as humans, and a lot of aspects of religion haven't advanced. In Judaism, a rabbi does not have any magical powers, it simply means "teacher". A rabbi helps you. Despite for me no longer being "religious" I still talk to my rabbi. Because she understands where I come from. Organized religion is a part of my childhood, and as an adult, I've made my own decisions. But, when I was a kid, I felt so torn. I didn't feel "right" like I couldn't have my own thoughts, beliefs or peace.

I would agree with WillowTreeWren on the emotional aspect.

Would it be possible to try to find another school?

[cariad]

I just love these responses! Thanks all of you. I especially find it interesting to hear how many people were raised in one belief system but chose a different one for themselves as adults.

Cas, I don't think Dyl knows what he wants. He knows he's sad, misses America, the new school is not quite right for him. It is not challenging enough for him, he is ferociously smart. However, he is not one of these precocious children socially the way Aidan is, so other than being well ahead of his peers academically, he fits right in to a group of six-year-olds. The secular school in town is in the top ten percent of English primary schools, so I think he would be challenged more there.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mary. Aidan still has the cough, so trust me, if there was an item of medicinal value in this house, he's taken it. He surprised us all a few months ago by trying out for the school Christmas play (always was too shy for drama) and then getting the lead role. He made it through that evening's performance, hardly coughing on stage at all, and then his body collapsed and the next few days were rough. He did come out of it fine, though, and is mostly well again.

Thanks for clarifying, Karen. And wow, what a great article on Tamiflu. We are well outside the 2 year extra window, so it may be time to bin it.

MM, I think you're right that there really is only one decision I could make. We have not toured the Catholic school, but I would say even if we did it would be impossible to know which is the 'better' school. Under austerity, once a school gets an Outstanding rating from Ofsted, they will not return to assess the school unless someone brings an issue to their attention. The Catholic school received their Outstanding in 2008. Things could have declined or be on the decline and no one has bothered to alert anyone yet. The city school, their Outstanding was in 2011 so I think we will catch them at their best. Dyl would only be there 4 years.

Those are incredible anecdotes, jbeany. Crikey. The justifications people will come up with for emotionally abusing kids, and teaching their own children to do the same. Awful.

Very interesting, helpful information, Poppy. Thanks. (And I note that your signature quotes Kurt Vonnegut! Hey, I guess you got your hands on Slaughterhouse Five!) There are clearly huge differences between parochial school in America and the UK. There is a local vicar who comes to most of the assemblies at my boys' current school. This could really only happen under precise circumstances at a state school in America. The vicar irritated me at the Remembrance Day assembly when he said "Remember, there are no atheists in war!" Right, first, it's 'no atheists in foxholes'. Second, it's false. But I don't see the harm in the boys hearing these things - chances are they were zoning out anyway.

Want to reply to the other messages, but must get back to work for now. More later...

[Poppylicious]

(And I note that your signature quotes Kurt Vonnegut! Hey, I guess you got your hands on Slaughterhouse Five!)

I did! And I did thank you for the recommendation on another thread (the book one?) but you obviously didn't see it!  Loved it. Unfortunately there are very few Vonnegut books in the county library and I seem to be fighting lots of people for them.

 

[cariad]

I am finally getting back to this discussion!

We have decided to move into catchment for the city school. This is so very awkward because I've been keeping this move secret for a number of reasons, including not wanting the current school to find out whilst my kids are still there. Also, my friend who is trapped in America desperately wants to send her son there and I have not told her of my plans and my Aussie friend (the only one who knows about the move yet) told me outright that I should have just told her. Knowing what I know about my American friend, I was really not comfortable doing that until everything was official, and it still isn't. We have a place reserved, but I take nothing for granted until a lease is signed. Anyhow, on to responses.

Yes, most of us who are now "practicing" atheists had some kind of religious upbringing BUT, not on a daily basis as a captive audience. Knowing that Dylan is still at a VERY impressionable age doesn't help. You would be putting him in a compromising position where you would have to debrief him on SOME of what he learned at school without undermining his general education. 

Very true, Aleta. This is already happening to some extent and he is at a secular (mostly) school. Dyl seems to have a religious streak about him that I don't know what to do with. I have told him that I am not going to tell him what to believe, but that I don't believe in what the Bible says myself, and that religion in general has led to pointless wars and other violence.

They are teaching them Bible stories in his year right now and apparently there were four wise men who set out to visit baby Jesus, but one of them got sidetracked?? I have no idea where this is coming from, but Aidan corroborates that they were told this at school. Then, the whole school went to a church ceremony right before Christmas and the vicar talked about the three wise men, and fearless, opinionated Dyl corrected the vicar. (At this point, you can picture Aidan slumping down in the pews, covering his face and wishing it would all go away.) Rather than address this contradiction for a six-year-old, the vicar just snapped "the Bible says there were three!" I am not the person to mediate this dispute and sort of resent that they cannot even get together and give one account of what happened, or better yet, discuss why it is so difficult to be sure of accuracy when you are talking about thousands of years ago, and a translation from ancient languages. So absolutely I don't want to have to hear about this sort of thing on a regular basis. Thank you so much for the expert advice! I feel confident in our decision to fight for a place in the secular school. 

[cariad]

I wouldn't send my child to a parochial school even if it was a better school. My kids had a hard enough time being raised as non believers in the public schools since so many of their friends went to CCD and so on. I always joked about being a heathen and my kids never complained about  it but I know at least one adult actually made some negative comment to my child. Some people may not feel like believers particularly but that's how they were raised and are fine going along with whatever in order to get a good education for their kids. But you have pretty strong objections to religious teachings so I don't think it would be worth it. Seems like Dyl would be getting caught between what he's learning at school and what he's learning at home and that would get old quick and might lead to some unpleasantness.  Most kids want to fit in and I think school is tough enough without stacking the deck. Good luck on both your decisions.

Thanks for the input, SooMK. Yes, absolutely, I would find myself unable to support the religious teaching from a Catholic school. It turns out my friend's husband taught at a Catholic school and they are not Catholic. (I may have already written this, so forgive if I am repeating myself.) She said that the Catholic calendar is loaded with days devoted to saints and other Catholic traditions and that they felt like outsiders just because they never had any idea what was going on. She suspected that we would never feel like we fit in, and I don't want Dyl to feel excluded, so yet another reason to do what we have to do to go a different direction.

[cariad]

This is coming from a Christian, home schooling, mother so take it with a gain of salt.

I would not put my child in a school that I don't agree with what they are teaching. The catholic school in our community is good academically but squelches independent thought and creativity. Along with teaching catholic beliefs, I wouldn't be able to handle any of it.

Thank you, Sydnee. It is fascinating to see you coming from a completely different angle and arriving at the same conclusion as we have. I just wouldn't feel right seeing him raised in a belief system that I cannot relate to at all.

[cariad]

This is my opinion being a praticing catholic.  Growing up my parents took me to church but explained to me that you don't have to believe everything the church was preaching.  just have an open dialogue with your son.

That's a refreshing approach to religious teaching, Rain. I have actually borrowed this from you to address the Christmas carols that he was taught. Dyl luuuuuuuvs singing and music so I don't want to take that joy away, but I did tell him "You don't have to believe everything you're singing. Most people don't!" It made me feel better, anyhow.

[cariad]

Okay, I am Catholic and I kept on reading. lol.  It really is different from school to school.  My ex went to Catholic school in Connecticut growing up and it was very much about indoctrination.  We got married in the same church that she graduated high school in.  They had Mass in Italian.  There is a Catholic High School out here in California.  I know a number of people who send their children there.  It is a very good school and is very open to students not of the Catholic faith.  So, I would have a VERY open and honest conversation with the school about your concerns. 

I hope all works out with the school.  Of course I hope your little guy gets better fast.  You and your family are in my thoughts prayers (couldn't hurt).
With all my love,
Marc

Thanks, Marc!

Prayers are gratefully accepted! If things fall through with the city school (which could happen since we are competing for 4 slots that will come available in September) I will investigate the Catholic school further and see what sort of vibe I get off them. I went to a private school when I was Dyl's age, and there was a little bit of prayer that was expected of all the kids each day. I think most of my friends were pretty devout Christian, and it never was an issue. I know it is possible that there is a Catholic school out there that would be right for us.

[cariad]

As someone who is not really 'Athiest', (I think of myself as a humanist) who used to teach Sunday School and run the teen groups for a Christian church, leaving when I finally had had enough of the hypocrisy of 'organized religion':

I can speak only for me, and how I chose to handle that with my children. I would never, ever have allowed them into a parochial school of any faith, because it was important to me that they explore any and all faiths THEY chose to explore, should they choose to explore them. Parochial schools present their faith because well, that's why they are there.

You've visited a school you felt at home in. For me, if I were in your shoes, and felt the way you wrote about feeling, it's a non starter. Not even an issue. I'd go where I felt at home, and comfortable that my child was getting his book learning, and that his spirituality would be left to his parents, and more importantly for me, to HIM to decide.

Hi Jen, thanks for the reply. I think we have quite similar worldviews, and you're right that a Catholic school would be quite limiting in exposing him to a variety of ideological possibilities. Right now, he gets an overview of every religion, although they do certainly favor Christianity in this country (I think 92% of the country identifies as Christian, but most are nowhere near as in to it as American Christians tend to be.) I do admit that I hope that Dyl becomes a humaist/atheist, but I really think it's impossible to exactly choose one's beliefs - it will be whatever makes sense to him in the end. I do hope to give him the freedom to find whatever that might be.

[gothiclovemonkey]

I have my 2 cents ....
When I was pregnant, I decided that I wouldnt fill my sons mind with any particular relgion, and when he was old enough, id take him around to all the different churches and stuff...So that he can make his own choices. I still plan on that. When he was born, I did have him baptised at the urging of my family, since he was so tiny, and so sickly. We had nearly lost him twice, and it sounded like a good idea at the time, ya know, 'just in case'... (although, now, according to my brother who recently was 'born again' his baptism didnt count because he wasnt dunked... whatever.)

I am not a very religious person, i dont identify as any particular religion. I do have my own beliefs (rather undefinable..)
My brother, on the other hand is very, very Christian... and very verbal about it too.. Which, he has (without my permission!!) Filled my son's head with his beliefs, to the point my son has started praying before bed, and asking me a LOT of questions i dont know how to answer, because I dont believe some of it... he also often makes reference to the "bad guy" (devil) and i dont know what to say or do... I definitely dont want to lie to him, or give him false info, or sway him in any way. But he seems to really believe what his uncle has told him... so I dont know if I should go the christian route with him, or just continue on the way I am now... Avoiding haha
I am rather p.o.ed at my brother for this... it wasnt his place. but he thinks i am a sinner, i am possessed, and that is why my kidneys have failed. I must repent and praise the lord...blah blah blah... (ya, and then ill get my kidneys back? suuuure)
I have no problem with religion, or religious people. In fact, I think its quite a beautiful thing that they have. I just personally dont believe some of it...

Now, after all that, would i send my son to a catholic school? i honestly think i would be in the same position as you... On one hand, sounds like a great school, but like i said... i wouldnt want to sway him until hes old enough to know what he wants to believe. I dont think I would. for that reason alone.

And as for the meds, its expired, throw it away! Idk about OTC meds, but prescrips should always be thrown out after they expire, it can change them... Make them stronger, or weaker... ODs happen that way!

[cariad]

My grandfather was Catholic but he only went on Christmas and Easter. When I was 9, they tried to get me into a Catholic school but I was refused because my we didn't attend Church regularly! As an adult, I have found a Church that I really love. But I think I would have a problem sending a child somewhere that I was uncomfortable.
You may not share my beliefs but I will pray that you will find the answer that is right for you and Dyl.

Thank you, CebuShan! I feel I am reaping the benefit of all of these thoughtful responses, good wishes and prayers. Interesting that you were turned away from that Catholic school, I hope it turned out to be for the best.

I appreciate your kind words!

[cariad]

@JustJen Heh, I'm also a humanist.  

Okay, so I was raised in a town that has a heavy Jewish population. That said, that doesn't mean everyone is, but it did take me by surprise when my friend's father called me a dirty Jew. I've also been called worse.
 
But I did go to Shabbot every Saturday. After awhile, getting older and growing more as a person, I realized the parts I agreed with, were more general humanitarian things. (Don't do harm, care for your fellow human, animal and earth... ECT) But there was a lot I didn't agree with. Because we've advanced as humans, and a lot of aspects of religion haven't advanced. In Judaism, a rabbi does not have any magical powers, it simply means "teacher". A rabbi helps you. Despite for me no longer being "religious" I still talk to my rabbi. Because she understands where I come from. Organized religion is a part of my childhood, and as an adult, I've made my own decisions. But, when I was a kid, I felt so torn. I didn't feel "right" like I couldn't have my own thoughts, beliefs or peace.

I would agree with WillowTreeWren on the emotional aspect.

Would it be possible to try to find another school?

LSD, that's fantastic that you still have a relationship with your rabbi. That is one thing I missed out on being raised an atheist - some sort of spiritual advisor. There really does not seem to be a substitute for that in the secular world, although i guess humanism has been attempting to fill that void for quite a while. I once heard an NPR interview with the leader of the humanist church (do they call it a church?) at Harvard. I would happily join something like that here if I could find it - I guess it's time to investigate how large a humanist presence there is in the UK. Thanks for the fascinating reply!

[cariad]

(And I note that your signature quotes Kurt Vonnegut! Hey, I guess you got your hands on Slaughterhouse Five!)

I did! And I did thank you for the recommendation on another thread (the book one?) but you obviously didn't see it!  Loved it. Unfortunately there are very few Vonnegut books in the county library and I seem to be fighting lots of people for them.

 

Glad you enjoyed it! You must live in an area with impeccable taste. Good luck fighting the crowds!

[cariad]

I have no problem with religion, or religious people. In fact, I think its quite a beautiful thing that they have.

I agree. I have often thought it would be very soothing to be a religious person, but my brain seems to be hardwired to reject that sort of thing.

As for your brother, sorry but I laughed at the 'doesn't count' bit. It brings up images of heaven as an idiotic bureaucracy where they consult the instant baptismal replay at the pearly gates and then tell your son "Tough break, sir! After a lifetime of living ethically it's a real shame that you weren't completely immersed as an infant, but rules are rules. Application denied!"

Thanks for the thoughts on my dilemma. And the next time I see those TamiFlu (yes, I mislaid the capsules again!) I will be sure to bin them immediately.
GLM, your brother and I must never meet. It would come to blows within moments. 

[willowtreewren]

Oh what a tangled web....

 

[gothiclovemonkey]

haha i believe it! hes an ass, has always been one too... even before the new found love of the lord.
for moment there, he actually thought he was the second coming... yes he is that narsasitic (sp)

[cariad]

Been a couple weeks, but came across your post Caraid. As far as the Expired Tamflu, eeh, I think 2006 is a bit of a stretch. I wouldn't risk it.

As far as the school, I share your concern also.  As a Christian, I was always concerned for my daughters schooling. What she would be exposed to. Her elementary years K-4 was spent in public schools.  I was able to put her in a private Christian school 5-6.  She loved it there and we wished at the time it had gone all the way through 12th.  It does now, but back then it didn't.

So she had to go back to public school 7-12.  Students with all different views there, but they were kind of like in "clicks" if you know what I mean.  She had her group of friends, and other groups had theirs.  All in all, she turned out to be a pretty good girl with a family of her own.  If she had ended up with different views than mine, I still would love her just the same.

Id say just trust your gut and Dyl.  He may surprise you.  But I understand totally your fear of the influences around your children.  I don't think you & I are different from that aspect.  I want the best for my children, and You do too.  We definately disagree on alot of things, but we diffinately agree for the safety of our childrens and protection from evil or bad things that could happen in their lifetime.  I would die for my family and I believe you would too.

As far as others who have posted above!  I respect your opinions.  They are yours!  We all have a right to our own. I too have heard about the Sexual deeds of the Catholics.  It is very disgusting.  But I have know people of all faiths & non-believers, Agnostics, Atheist ect....  who have had these same problems within their own beliefs. 

I as a Christian, still have a trouble with sin.  Im not perfect.  Im not a goody to shoes either,  I try to be, but I fall short sooo many times.  If any of the above will show proof of their perfectness or righteousness, I would be the first to commend you. 

I believe in the God of the Bible.  He came to this earth as a Man named Jesus.  He was perfect as the Bible says.  He died for our sins so that those who believe can have eternal life with him.  This is how I believe.  Im not shoving it down anyone's throat, it is just simply my beliefs. We all have free will.  Choose the way you want, but please have the respect for others who may not believe as you.

I hope everyone had a Wonderful Christmas & a Blessed New Year to All of You!   Another year bit the Dust!

God Bless,
lmunchkin

Gah, OK, don't know how I skipped over your reply, hun, but this was in no way meant as a snub!

Yes, I believe the philosophy of parenthood surpasses the bounds of religion and politics and we just all want what we think is best for our kids. I personally cannot believe most days how amazing my kids are and I try to drill into their heads on daily basis how phenomenal I think they are. They find it beyond embarrassing, which only encourages me! 

I can only imagine what it was like for your daughter to age out of the perfect school for her. My boys had a similar experience with their Milwaukee after school program - an amazing, safe place for them, but it only goes to age 12 and many of the older kids were already going their separate ways when we left. My older son was heartbroken when we finally said goodbye.