to OKAROL - Re: My Clinic is Great thread

[RealityCheck]

People used to have deep faith in their doctors as not only being skilled but wise and caring.  Research shows that trust has eroded and now people perceive doctors as being significantly concerned with personal wealth.  Is that a bad thing--?

I mean, what is it about medical school and internship that would create wisdom and compassion?  Nothing, really.  Unless I'm missing something.

Isn't it better to think of doctors as no wiser or more compassionate than people in other professions?  Although certainly the profession does contain some wise and compassionate people.

I think similar things about people with innocent faith in the corporations behind their medical care.  Is that faith really, in the end, a good thing for them and the community?

[PatDowns]

@ RichardMEL - June 4, 2011 - 6:14:25 p.m.

The morbidity and mortality statistics on propublica are based upon the actual number of reported facility deaths, actual number of reported facility patient hospitalizations, actual reported number of patients in the hospital due to septicemia and actual reported number of patients in the hospital due to access related infection.   Adjustments for differences in patient characteristics, such as age and complicating medical conditions are  made so to reflect an apples to apples comparison between clinics.

And even if what you say is true about massaging stats, I have a strong suspicion that the government would "massage" towards better outcomes, therefore, incenter conditions are probably even worse than what's reported.

Although you have qualified both of your previous posts as coming from you personally and not as a moderator,  some of your statements reflect what you do know and agree with for being in that position.  For example:  "I know personally there have been times that the admin team have worked hard to keep things in good order around here, and the vast majority of members would have no idea what had gone on (which is the point)..."  Well, YOU know, and you are basing your comments on that knowledge.  It would be extremely hard for someone in your position not to show a bias.  Like the rest of us on here, you're human as well.

[PatDowns]

I mean, what is it about medical school and internship that would create wisdom and compassion?  Nothing, really.  Unless I'm missing something.

Isn't it better to think of doctors as no wiser or more compassionate than people in other professions?  Although certainly the profession does contain some wise and compassionate people.

"I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."      ~     Hippocratic Oath  (Modern Version/1964)

[RichardMEL]

PatDown - two responses.

1. Regarding statistics, reported cases etc. My point that I perhaps didn't word at all well, but what I was trying to get across is that while the stats say xyz about a particular unit, I don't think it's worthwhile beating one person over the head (or having a go at their posted experience - which is how I read your original posts to Andrew) when they posted that they were happy with their experience/care at that unit. So he's one that hasn't reported and issue or found things to be concerned about. I don't think basically suggesting that his view/experience/post is invalid because the statistics say otherwise is very fair.

It's like the unit I was in which I loved very much - the staff, the treatment etc (of course I saw flaws, but in a public hospital system like we have that's part and parcel of it).. but I also know a few patients who absolutely HATED it for one reason or another. I have no ideas about complaints or statistics about our unit (or even if such things are kept down here) but I'm saying that I could post that I loved my unit but if one of the other folks read that they'd probably disagree. Both views are valid because they're based on personal experience/opinion.

2. moderation & bias.

Yes, I see your point. I was simply trying to illustrate that the admin team do their best to keep things as smooth as possible. I'd also suggest that I don't NEED to be a moderator to know that. The other main board I post to (which I mentioned earlier) I am just a regular user with no special rights, yet I know there some of the things that go on. I suspect there are some longer term users of this site who also understand some of the things that happen that most don't see.

Incidently moderators actually have limited ability to do things on the board: we can't ban (and wouldn't anyway) users, and I don't think we can lock threads. We can move them to more approprlate locations, and edit ONLY to correct typos in quotes etc, to fix formatting issues etc. There are very specific guidelines that the site creater, epoman, set out. I only post this as a FYI not trying to justify anything or defend anything.

[okarol]

Here, again, the thread has gotten off topic, which was to criticize my locking another thread.
This is an example of a thread that people might skip because it looks like a note to OKAROL.
I am so tempted to lock this one. 
Prior to this I don't think I had locked a thread in 2 years.

[RealityCheck]

Carol, the question of what is healthy and acceptable to discuss about this subject is not off-topic.  It goes to the heart of the board's purpose for being.  It is something people want to work out.  There is nothing wrong with people talking about what they think should be censored and should not.  You are feeling personally criticized and diving into your defenses. 

It's not about you.  Step back and take a breath.  If you suppress the issue here, it will pop up again and you'll spend your days locking down threads.

The issue is:  how do people reconcile their need to feel secure with their treatment with what they hear from other people about the corruption of the economic system delivering it?

I don't know the answer but I am willing to listen to both sides.

[okarol]

Carol, the question of what is healthy and acceptable to discuss about this subject is not off-topic.  It goes to the heart of the board's purpose for being.  It is something people want to work out.  There is nothing wrong with people talking about what they think should be censored and should not.  You are feeling personally criticized and diving into your defenses. 

It's not about you.  Step back and take a breath.  If you suppress the issue here, it will pop up again and you'll spend your days locking down threads.

The issue is:  how do people reconcile their need to feel secure with their treatment with what they hear from other people about the corruption of the economic system delivering it?

I don't know the answer but I am willing to listen to both sides.

Thanks for your comments. I have been an admin here for 3 years. It's a volunteer job and it takes a huge amount of my time, but I think it is time well spent.

You are totally missing the point. A good topic to come from this thread would be, as you say, "how do people reconcile their need to feel secure with their treatment with what they hear from other people about the corruption of the economic system delivering it?" I encourage you to continue the discussion in a new thread, because I do not think Pat should have started a new thread to criticize me. You may not agree but that's how I feel. It IS about me when it says OKAROL in the subject line. There's your reality check.

okarol/admin

[okarol]

Thread locked. Off topic

Please start a new subject about treatment centers, statistics and trust in the section Dialysis: Centers http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?board=3.0

okarol/admin