What makes it worth the effort?

[lost sheep]

Zach

I have described what I have done with my life.  I have lived and loved for 31 years.  How specific would you like me to be.  Do you want to know about the time with my best buddy drinking beer and listening to country music karaoke in some bar in San Pedro Kay off of the coast of Belize.  Or about the time I laid my bike down in turn 10 at VIR.  Or maybe you want me to tell you about my most beloved girlfriend and the tender moments we shard togeather back in college.  Or again, maybe even more you want to know about sex with two chicks at the same time.  Or the night we did some coke and inhaled whipits and talked about nothing until the sun came up and then went out for some much needed breakfast.  You see, what I have done is live my life without any rules to the fullest capacity.  I have loved those near me and they have loved me in return.  I do not wish to be judged upon material matter.  I have been a part of a family, I chose to receive an education, I did everything I always wanted.  It is not suprising that this sort of happiness is questioned by so many.  I have known for a long time that I am gifted and special and for others t see and be effected is just another one of my doings.  Do you think I could not or have not effected anyone in a positive way and somehow influenced their life in the same positive manner?  

Come on man..."Please don't confuse alcohol as a drug, yes it is addicting and causes many problems in our society. However you said "drugs" which I take to mean illegal drugs." 
So because the government says its ok..................Tobacco is legal too.  Are those consumers not abusers?  Are they classified as people not valuing their health or their body? 

I want to know who was it that said a person must spend x number of days on this earth before they qualified as having lived a life?  How do you attach a number to that.  Jimi Hendrix died at a young age and did more for the music world than most musicians.  But he did alot of drugs to enjoy life, right, and he was ignorant and that is shamefull and we shouldn't respect him at all, right?

Oh yea, Epoman.  No response as to something I missed in life?

I'm glad you used the word "enlighten".  Buddism is a good way toward enlightenment.  Read much about it?

[Epoman]

Zach

I have described what I have done with my life.  I have lived and loved for 31 years.  How specific would you like me to be.  Do you want to know about the time with my best buddy drinking beer and listening to country music karaoke in some bar in San Pedro Kay off of the coast of Belize.  Or about the time I laid my bike down in turn 10 at VIR.  Or maybe you want me to tell you about my most beloved girlfriend and the tender moments we shard togeather back in college.  Or again, maybe even more you want to know about sex with two chicks at the same time.  Or the night we did some coke and inhaled whipits and talked about nothing until the sun came up and then went out for some much needed breakfast.  You see, what I have done is live my life without any rules to the fullest capacity.  I have loved those near me and they have loved me in return.  I do not wish to be judged upon material matter.  I have been a part of a family, I chose to receive an education, I did everything I always wanted.  It is not suprising that this sort of happiness is questioned by so many.  I have known for a long time that I am gifted and special and for others t see and be effected is just another one of my doings.  Do you think I could not or have not effected anyone in a positive way and somehow influenced their life in the same positive manner?  

Come on man..."Please don't confuse alcohol as a drug, yes it is addicting and causes many problems in our society. However you said "drugs" which I take to mean illegal drugs." 
So because the government says its ok..................Tobacco is legal too.  Are those consumers not abusers?  Are they classified as people not valuing their health or their body? 

I want to know who was it that said a person must spend x number of days on this earth before they qualified as having lived a life?  How do you attach a number to that.  Jimi Hendrix died at a young age and did more for the music world than most musicians.  But he did alot of drugs to enjoy life, right, and he was ignorant and that is shamefull and we shouldn't respect him at all, right?

Oh yea, Epoman.  No response as to something I missed in life?

I'm glad you used the word "enlighten".  Buddism is a good way toward enlightenment.  Read much about it?

I'll say it again did you even read my reply?  Here was my responce to your question:

I can't tell you what you should do in this life, all I can tell you is what I see by your posts on this message board. However let me ask you this.... You have mentioned "Staving children in Africa" TWICE now in your replies.....Well what have you done to help in that situation? What have you done to make this world a better place to help your fellow man? Sometimes when you help others you are REALLY helping yourself. You say you are fulfilled well then how about helping someone else get fulfilled.

You said:

Tobacco is legal too.  Are those consumers not abusers?  Are they classified as people not valuing their health or their body?

Yes! people who abuse smoking, as in several a day or a pack or two a day are abusers and they do not value their health or body. I thought that was automatic, I didn't think I needed to include tobacco users. I too enjoy a nice Camel Unfiltered once in a while. But I haven't had one for a couple of months.

You said:

How do you attach a number to that.  Jimi Hendrix died at a young age and did more for the music world than most musicians.  But he did a lot of drugs to enjoy life, right, and he was ignorant and that is shameful and we shouldn't respect him at all, right?

Jimi Hendrix did not use drugs, he ABUSED drugs. Imagine for a moment what he could have done for the music industry had he not ABUSED drugs. It's one thing to get high and another to abuse. Think about that for a moment.

You said:

Do you think I could not or have not effected anyone in a positive way and somehow influenced their life in the same positive manner?

Yeah I am sure the night you did "Coke" and "Inhaled whipits" had a real positive effect on their lives. Or better yet the night you had "two chicks". 

Well at least you gave some examples of your wonderful fulfilling life. Which I think is shallow, the examples you gave included drinking, drug ABUSE, and sex. But what about the poor African children you keep mentioning, what have YOU done to help your fellow man? Sorry but your examples do not impress me.

You said:

I have known for a long time that I am gifted and special

Any idiot (no offense) can abuse drugs, alcohol and not follow rules as you stated, that makes you gifted and special. If that's the case then our American jails are FULL of gifted and special people like yourself.

You have not replied to my statement earlier, about drugs possibly destroying your kidneys, did they? Let me ask you this since you are so fulfilled would you consider committing suicide if you were not diagnosed with Kidney Disease? I mean after all you did EVERYTHING you wanted in life. So why bother living, you did everything you wanted and lived a very full life.

- Epoman

[Zach]

Zach
I have described what I have done with my life.

If you believe that you have had a full life, then only you can decide what you must do in the end.  But before you act upon your decision, I would suggest you contact IHD member stauffenberg, to get his unique point of view, and see what he says about "what makes it worth the effort."

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=223

[boxman55]

One of the things I consider being amazing and wonderful if you want to know is: waking up every morning knowing that today I can make a difference, no matter how big or small, I will effect someones life, and I hope in a good way, which as the say, what goes around comes around. I wouldn't want to miss the "comes around"
Boxman55

[meadowlandsnj]

Zach

I want to know who was it that said a person must spend x number of days on this earth before they qualified as having lived a life?  How do you attach a number to that.  Jimi Hendrix died at a young age and did more for the music world than most musicians.  But he did alot of drugs to enjoy life, right, and he was ignorant and that is shamefull and we shouldn't respect him at all, right?

Lets talk about musicians who abused drugs and died far too young.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_who_died_of_drug-related_causes
I don't they did drugs to enjoy life--people do drugs to try to replace something missing in their life.  To escape life.  Not one person I know who ever abused drugs did it to get more enjoyment out of life.  I grew up with people who abused drugs.  Can you imagine what someone like Jimi Hendrix could have accomplished if he didn't die?  Jim Morrison?  Janis Joplin?  We'll never know because they were gone too young.  To me there's nothing heroic about dying choking in your own vomit because you were too high to help yourself.  Jimi Hendrix was just another junkie who overdosed and died in his own vomit. How many non famous people died exactly the same way as him? That's the ugly truth about it.  Someone like him had a gift and they threw it all away for the needle.  Ever listen to the Neil Young song the needle and the damage done?
If someone chooses to to drugs, hey it's a free country go ahead.  It's your life.  Just don't expect me to respect you.  I respect people who deserve respect.

Donna

[lost sheep]

Wow Epoman!  I'm not sure where to begin.  You and I are of different breeds.  I for sure do not pass judgment on people as you seem to be so apt in doing.  No respect for users of anything harmful to the body.  Man thats harsh.  I mean there are alot of people with certain types of sicknesses that need help.  What they don't need are people such as yourself who at the drop of a hat are down on them.  What about the people with severe depression who get hooked on prescription meds?  No respect for them either?  I respect all life.  After all, we all want the same thing.  Happiness.  *Yes I have read your replies and I am still dissappointed.  I would expect a more inspirational responses rather than the "I know everything because this is my website" types you have dedicated.  You are not better than anybody else, including tobacco addiction.  In order for people to respect you, you must share in the same respect.

YOU SAID "Jimi Hendrix did not use drugs, he ABUSED drugs. Imagine for a moment what he could have done for the music industry had he not ABUSED drugs. It's one thing to get high and another to abuse. Think about that for a moment."

I did think about it.  I don't believe he would have had the same influence without the drugs as he did with them.  Just the same as I don't believe he would have had the same influence had he not been drafted to the war.  See our life experiences are what make us who we are.  You mean to tell me that without using or "abusing" drugs that Jimi Hendrix would be the Jimi Hendrix we know?  Also, who is it that determines the line between using and abusing and when did I get admitted into either one?

YOU SAID "Yeah I am sure the night you did "Coke" and "Inhaled whipits" had a real positive effect on their lives. Or better yet the night you had "two chicks".  
Well at least you gave some examples of your wonderful fulfilling life. Which I think is shallow, the examples you gave included drinking, drug ABUSE, and sex. But what about the poor African children you keep mentioning, what have YOU done to help your fellow man? Sorry but your examples do not impress me."

You know one positive thing that came of that night.  A bond between friends.  Mutual respect for one another.  Sure we could have gone to a movie or played mini golf or went bowling or something and we do do those things, but this night was more than that.  We still laugh about it to this day.  And the two girls....whats wrong with that?  Everybody likes eachother.  Enough for it to happen more than once.  All you see in my post is what you want to see.  Read between some of the lines and you might have a better understanding of who I am.  I am not here to impress anyone.  For the African people and those similar...I eat all the food on my plate and have always been grateful for what was mine.  When I travel to a poor country I always bring something to give to the people.  It's amazing what baseball cards are worth in Cuba!

YOU SAID  "Let me ask you this since you are so fulfilled would you consider committing suicide if you were not diagnosed with Kidney Disease? I mean after all you did EVERYTHING you wanted in life. So why bother living, you did everything you wanted and lived a very full life."

I SAY.  Thats the most ridiculous remark you have made!!!  So ridiculous I am not even justifying it with a response.

[Zach]

When I travel to a poor country I always bring something to give to the people.  It's amazing what baseball cards are worth in Cuba!

I gave lollipops to the children in Shanghai.  Now my life is all that it can be.

[terry-upstate-ny]

Dear Lost Sheep, You say that you don't want to be herded.  You probably feel forced into dialysis and that your only choice is to refuse treatment, which is like choosing eventual suicide.  You say that you have nothing further to live for. This all sounds like you are experiencing Depression, and you should speak with your caregivers about this.  Many people feel better after therapy. There are some antidepressant medications can be used to help you feel better.
Terry

[Rerun]

Lost Sheep,

I don't agree with your lifestyle!
I do agree with your decision to deny dialysis treatment.  It is not free and it is definitely not easy.  So, I don't really think you could handle it.  They don't allow alcohol or illegal drugs on the machine and you probably won't feel like staying up all night partying.  So, there are 2 ways you can do this.  Don't even get the fistula created or the lines in your neck.  It will be a long death because your kidneys have to slowly shut down.  You can speed up the process by drugs and alcohol if you want.  The second option is to go ahead and get the fistula created or whatever option you choose and just try dialysis for a year.  After a year your native kidneys will have most likely pooped out completely.  Then if you stop dialysis it is a LOT faster.  AND you can just drink a few orange/banana smoothies and you will be dead in no time. 

In that year you could go to church to prepare for the next life.

I am serious.  Dialysis is for those who want to live a while longer.  If you don't you will die.  Dialysis is a luxury.  If you lived in north Africa you would not even have an option.

Do what you want.

[melshell]

I'm going out on a limb here, but after reading the thread, I understand and agree with points made on both sides. I've had chronic kidney disease for 15 years, and only recently reached ESRD which necessitated dialysis. I consider myself a very centered person. Not unlike anyone else, I have endured my fair share of heartache, and loss in the "hard knock" school of life. Thankfully, at some point early on, (and by early on I mean my twenties-or there about), I discovered the awe and beauty of the world, and that every day I was allowed to awaken, I had the opportunity to make as much or as little of it as I desired, and I began to count that a privilege. If you had asked me before my kidneys crashed, whether I'd felt like I'd lived my life fully, or accomplished all that I hoped to accomplish, or if I was ready to go, I would've answered in a heartbeat, YES!! "I am ready to go!!" Not because I'd seen it all, or done it all, but because I felt like I would have lived the life that was intended. No truer statement was ever made than that we are all different, and therefore what we hope to accomplish with this life is different. I know for me, it's important for me to love fully the people that are around me, and be loved by them. It's important for me to respect others and to be respected amongst my peers and the people who look up to me and depend on me. Without getting too lengthy, it is also important for me to honor those that have gone on before me, and to leave something of myself for those to follow. I don't believe there's some magic age you live to that entitles you, or anyone else to say with any certainty "well, they lived a full life." I believe that whatever age you are when you leave this place, you have no one to blame but yourself, if you haven't lived a full life. There have been times since I began dialysis, that I have asked myself "why do this?", "Is it worth it?", and I've only been on dialysis for a little less than two months...I think we all do. I DON'T, however, feel like I was desperately grasping for straws when the time came, or that I was herded like a goat into beginning dialysis because I was too young to die, or that I'd left something undone that I needed to do! I was perfectly satisfied with my life, and had I been diagnosed with terminal Cancer, or been killed in a car accident, I would have been at peace...the difference is, I had a choice. I have been given the opportunity, via a machine, to continue the journey! The BEST part of life to me is living!! Being tied to a machine 7 nights a week SUCKS!! Surely it does!! But, you can view it as a means to an end, as many people view life, or you can chalk it up to another degree from the school of hard knocks, and anticipate how you will grow as a person through yet another experience. We are the sum of all of our experiences, perhaps there is a lesson that can only be learned by you going through  dialysis? I could've made better choices knowing that my kidneys would eventually fail, but if I had it to do all over again, I probably wouldn't. Yes, the choices I made have gotten me where I'm at, but they have also made me who I am. As for whether or not it's worth it, I feel sure there will be times ahead that I will again question myself about whether it is infact worth all the effort, but I am very thankful for the choice. Even people that aren't on dialysis suffer disappointments, and become discouraged...Having the choice, I will always chose life, HOWEVER it is that I am allowed to live it, and I will trust in, and have faith that when it is my time, I will be called, and I will be ready to go.

A friend sent me this today, I thought it was worth adding:

Disappointment is an emotional response to some failed expectation or desire.  Discouragement is losing motivation for something in life that brings us fulfillment and purpose.  I guess the key difference is that we can choose whether we are going to let disappointments plunge us into becoming discouraged.

[kitkatz]

I do not even understand the argument going on here in this thread. If a thirty-one year old person has decided that this is it, there is not point in living anymore, let them go!  Don't tell them there are so many other people who are the same age and feel cheated because life handed them dialysis and they are trapped with a machine now for the rest of their life or until a transplant comes along. Don't tell them about the nineteen year old who wants a child so bad she will get pregnant while on dialysis, thereby endangering her life. Don't tell them about the forty-four year old who still teaches special education children every day and goes to dialysis three days a week because she wants to continue living and contributing.  Don't tell them about the eighteen year old going in for transplant this week from a generous donor after being on dialysis for three years; or about her mother who spent countless hours on the net looking for a healthy viable donor.  Don't tell hem about the guy who developed this website for dialysis patients, where patients can say whatever is on their minds;who spend countless hours on his websites with new ideas. Don't tell them about the plans that were ruined, the lives that were changed, and the decisions that were made so that the person on dialysis could live and love for many years to come.  Don't tell them it is okay to give up, tell them it is okay to live.

[okarol]

   
    ...Amen, dear Kit.

[Epoman]

Wow Epoman!  I'm not sure where to begin.  You and I are of different breeds.  I for sure do not pass judgment on people as you seem to be so apt in doing.  No respect for users of anything harmful to the body.  Man thats harsh.  I mean there are alot of people with certain types of sicknesses that need help.  What they don't need are people such as yourself who at the drop of a hat are down on them.  What about the people with severe depression who get hooked on prescription meds?  No respect for them either?  I respect all life.  After all, we all want the same thing.  Happiness.  *Yes I have read your replies and I am still dissappointed.  I would expect a more inspirational responses rather than the "I know everything because this is my website" types you have dedicated.  You are not better than anybody else, including tobacco addiction.  In order for people to respect you, you must share in the same respect.

YOU SAID "Jimi Hendrix did not use drugs, he ABUSED drugs. Imagine for a moment what he could have done for the music industry had he not ABUSED drugs. It's one thing to get high and another to abuse. Think about that for a moment."

I did think about it.  I don't believe he would have had the same influence without the drugs as he did with them.  Just the same as I don't believe he would have had the same influence had he not been drafted to the war.  See our life experiences are what make us who we are.  You mean to tell me that without using or "abusing" drugs that Jimi Hendrix would be the Jimi Hendrix we know?  Also, who is it that determines the line between using and abusing and when did I get admitted into either one?

YOU SAID "Yeah I am sure the night you did "Coke" and "Inhaled whipits" had a real positive effect on their lives. Or better yet the night you had "two chicks".  
Well at least you gave some examples of your wonderful fulfilling life. Which I think is shallow, the examples you gave included drinking, drug ABUSE, and sex. But what about the poor African children you keep mentioning, what have YOU done to help your fellow man? Sorry but your examples do not impress me."

You know one positive thing that came of that night.  A bond between friends.  Mutual respect for one another.  Sure we could have gone to a movie or played mini golf or went bowling or something and we do do those things, but this night was more than that.  We still laugh about it to this day.  And the two girls....whats wrong with that?  Everybody likes eachother.  Enough for it to happen more than once.  All you see in my post is what you want to see.  Read between some of the lines and you might have a better understanding of who I am.  I am not here to impress anyone.  For the African people and those similar...I eat all the food on my plate and have always been grateful for what was mine.  When I travel to a poor country I always bring something to give to the people.  It's amazing what baseball cards are worth in Cuba!

YOU SAID  "Let me ask you this since you are so fulfilled would you consider committing suicide if you were not diagnosed with Kidney Disease? I mean after all you did EVERYTHING you wanted in life. So why bother living, you did everything you wanted and lived a very full life."

I SAY.  Thats the most ridiculous remark you have made!!!  So ridiculous I am not even justifying it with a response.

Hmmm now lets see where shall I begin?

You said:

I respect all life.

Hmmm OK, to bad you don't respect yourself. If you did you wouldn't have used "Coke" and inhaled "Whip-its".

You said:

I would expect a more inspirational responses rather than the "I know everything because this is my website" types you have dedicated.

Even if this wasn't my website I would still tell you how I feel and that would be my right. Being the owner isn't relevant, I am just stating my opinion. Do I not have a right to my opinion?

You said:

You are not better than anybody else, including tobacco addiction.  In order for people to respect you, you must share in the same respect.

Never said I was better than anyone else. I just have never used drugs, or abused alcohol. You still haven't answered my question. What caused your kidney disease? I bet it was the drugs, if you did "COKE" and "WHIPITS" then I am sure you did other narcotics. You abused your body and DID NOT CARE about the consequences and now you come to a dialysis board for "Inspiration" as you said "I would expect a more inspirational responses" You won't get any from me. I have asked you this questions twice now and you have ignored it, so that tells me your drug use did cause your kidney disease.

I SAID: "Let me ask you this since you are so fulfilled would you consider committing suicide if you were not diagnosed with Kidney Disease? I mean after all you did EVERYTHING you wanted in life. So why bother living, you did everything you wanted and lived a very full life."

You SAID:

Thats the most ridiculous remark you have made!!!  So ridiculous I am not even justifying it with a response.

Oh you're right you wouldn't commit suicide because you would still be abusing drugs and living without rules (your words).

What will make you happy "lost sheep" for me to kiss your ass and tell you how wonderful I think you are and tell you abusing drugs is fine and you are a fine young man and you have done so much good in your life because you only thought of yourself? And how much it sucks that this has happened to you. And you NEVER did anything in life to deserve this.

Well that isn't going to happen from me.

- Epoman

[glitter]

just the fact that you posted here, among strangers,tells a story of someone who is really looking for a reason to live.

Why else would you post? (It wasn't really for our opinions....)

My husband is a big tough guy (he is the dialysis one) this brought him to his knees for awhile,..... then he decided to be a

man, it takes courage to live too.

What if...............you leave something undone that you have not thought of yet?

Do you want your legacy to include pussing out at 31? Just my opinion -which isn't relevent in your scheme of things I reckon.

[Sluff]

Hey Lost sheep I'll keep this simple.

It is most definately your choice. It seems the real question is why did you join IHD? It seems you made your decision already so are you bringing this to our attention for a reason?

If you made the decision to end it than so be it, but I don't want to lose a friend so I'm going to ignore this thread, before we become friends.

[RichardMEL]

This is an interesting topic that raises so many complex issues such as our own mortality, our right to chose our destiny, quality of life vs. qantity of life, coping with dialysis, depression... and so on (to name a few).

It is interesting to read Lost Sheep's comments given this is a mostly "positive" forum, in terms of coping with and living with dialysis. I am sure all of us, at one time or another have had similar thoughts to Lost. I think the key is how we respond to these thoughts that is key.

I am only 5 years older than Lost, and have only been doing dialysis for 6 months next week, though I knew my fate over 13 years ago. At least by fate I mean that I knew what was in store in the future. So I feel about as new to dialysis and the life changes it produces as Lost is.

Unlike Lost, I don't think I've "done it all" yet. I am not even certain I could say that I had done everything that I wanted to. I tried to cram a lot in the last 13 years, but one of the things I hold on to in life is that I do NOT know what is around the corner - good or bad. I may meet the woman of my dreams (heck, I may have already met her?!)... I may experience a wonder/surprise I had not contemplated... I may get abducted by aliens (if they do probe me I hope they fix my kidneys too! That's gotta be worth a few probes!). For me, one of the good things about life is that hopefully it is NOT predictable.

Having said that, I certainly respect Lost's feelings on the matter.. but I wonder in the short time he has had to deal with the reality of dialysis and the life changes that brings that what he is really saying is that he feels the new restrictions and changes in lifestyle aren't worth it?! Yes, it can be a huge shock, specially if you are not prepared for it, to start dialysis.. but that doesn't mean life is over.

I feel perhaps Lost should be talking with his unit's Social Worker or a Counsellor about these feelings. Sure, if you feel "content" with what 31 years of life has given you, then by all means pull the plug (it seems to be what you're suggesting, but then again if you were REALLY content with things and ready to "go" then I doubt you would be posting this topic here with what essentially, to me anyway, is a cry for help). I do not mean this in an offensive way or anything.. this is just how I read the post.

I have thought about things like this myself. My late mother who passed away in March last year decided to end all her treatments given her quality if life had become so low (in her view) that she put an end to it with dignity and a REAL contentment with all she had done. She was 66 and was battling a horrid Pneumonia and lung disease caused by DVT that essentially left her in a hospital bed with 24/7 oxygen mask and antibiotics so strong that they were destroying her liver and kidneys. That kind of thing makes Dialysis seem like a daily or 3x/weekly workout.

Yes, being on dialysis has caused lifestyle changes that i find difficult at times to deal with. It really cuts down on travel options (though others in here have proved that it can be done!) and the dietry and fluid restrictions are a pain (I am dreading this afternoon's weigh in! ) and the meds and tireness and so on can be a real drag (no I am not suggesting anyone go over to the Sex thread! ).

But you know, Epo is right. I have had bad eyesight all my life as well. I can't drive, I could never play ball sports I wanted to as a kid and I was bullied for years. In a way that condition places more burdens on me than dialysis does. You know though, I can see enough to apprieciate a rainbow, or my beautiful cat, or an even more beautiful lady, a sunset, flowers, etc. I can hear, smell, touch and I can walk even if I can't drive (great exercise ). Sometimes I think of those who have less ability than I for whatever reasons

I also think about how dialysis technology helps me while waiting for a transplant to restore life to some kind of normality (I hope!). 100 years ago people with kidney failure would have faded away and died in an unpleasant way. Yet now we have people here who have been doing dialysis 30+ years! How many life experiences have those folks had that they would not have had? And they can continue to contribute to their families and their community.

I remember some years ago I went and saw a classical music concert conducted by James DePreist, who at the time was on dialysis (I believe he has since had a transplant). This guy travelled the world doing his art and the only difference I saw from him on stage is that he sat to conduct (which may or may not have been related to his kidney disease - though it would be pretty tiring for most people to stand for 2+ hours in front of an orchestra and wave the baton!). This is one guy who inspired me.

Last I must ask Lost, do you have no hope (or want) for a transplant which may give you back much of what you seem to be missing so much now as you start dialysis? It's not like it's a death sentence and you could wind up with a transplant and kiss dialysis goodbye! Several of our own members have recently "had the call" and we wish them all the best with their transplants!

The other thing is that I am not sure what form of dialysis you are doing, but there are options to suit different kinds of lifestyles - PD, Home Haemo, unit Haemo, etc... perhaps you're not on the right option for you and you could find something to better fit in with your lifestyle?

I don't think you should be so black and white about this situation when you're really only a "dialysis baby" - it takes time to get used to, that is for sure, and to find what works for you (and I am still nutting through that myself).. I also think this whole thread is you asking for help to cope with the changes dialysis brings. Well, we're just one method of support to give some of that help. Others will be your doctor, social worker, counsellor etc.

All the best!

[shay_pcb]

I am relatively new to this "community" and I have been wondering.  Is this how life is meant to be lived?  I suppose if you have dependants there are reasons to "buy" time ...but if you don't?  Isn't it all just for nothing?  It's been 2 months now since I acquired the ability to see life like so many others never have a chance.  When you look death in the eyes your preception is much different.  Living people can not and would not understand as we do.  What is so wrong with leaving this life which has been lived to the absolute fullest and going on to the next?  How many people live their lives to the fullest?  How many live live like herded goats?  Can you say, "I have done all I wanted to do in this life."  Living off of some machine and waiting for a possible transplant and the meds and all else that comes?  Is this life style for me, or you?  It must be difficult for living loved-ones, but they too will move on to another life soon enough.  Do you live for them?  I say no, I have always lived for living, for the gift of life, for myself, not someone else.  To live is to be free, not managing, or bearing it, or surviving.

I often wonder the same thing. I wonder if I was supposed to die and that medical science is keeping me alive longer than was meant. I have had so many problems...it just makes me think that I wasn't meant to be alive this long....

[Epoman]

I am relatively new to this "community" and I have been wondering.  Is this how life is meant to be lived?  I suppose if you have dependants there are reasons to "buy" time ...but if you don't?  Isn't it all just for nothing?  It's been 2 months now since I acquired the ability to see life like so many others never have a chance.  When you look death in the eyes your preception is much different.  Living people can not and would not understand as we do.  What is so wrong with leaving this life which has been lived to the absolute fullest and going on to the next?  How many people live their lives to the fullest?  How many live live like herded goats?  Can you say, "I have done all I wanted to do in this life."  Living off of some machine and waiting for a possible transplant and the meds and all else that comes?  Is this life style for me, or you?  It must be difficult for living loved-ones, but they too will move on to another life soon enough.  Do you live for them?  I say no, I have always lived for living, for the gift of life, for myself, not someone else.  To live is to be free, not managing, or bearing it, or surviving.

I often wonder the same thing. I wonder if I was supposed to die and that medical science is keeping me alive longer than was meant. I have had so many problems...it just makes me think that I wasn't meant to be alive this long....

NOPE shay, when it's your time it's your time. I am not sure of your religious beliefs however I personally believe when it's your time, there is nothing medical science can do to stop it. This is just my personal belief. I have had wayyyy more medical problems than you shay and "I am still kicking deaths ass", but when the big guys calls me home, then there is nothing I can do to stop it.

- Epoman

[shay_pcb]

I don't know about that, Epoman. I haven't posted ALL of my medical problems. Plus, you are older than me, so you've had more time to get more medical problems.    What about when you were my age??

[jbeany]

I often wonder the same thing. I wonder if I was supposed to die and that medical science is keeping me alive longer than was meant. I have had so many problems...it just makes me think that I wasn't meant to be alive this long....

If we weren't meant to be alive this long, shay, we would have been hit by a bus by now.  Medical problems be damned - death is going to have come track me down.  I'm not going quietly!

[Epoman]

I don't know about that, Epoman. I haven't posted ALL of my medical problems. Plus, you are older than me, so you've had more time to get more medical problems.    What about when you were my age??

Well I'll give you that, I am older than you.

[shay_pcb]

I don't know about that, Epoman. I haven't posted ALL of my medical problems. Plus, you are older than me, so you've had more time to get more medical problems.    What about when you were my age??

Well I'll give you that, I am older than you.

So what all did you have when you were my age, if you don't mind me asking? 

[Epoman]

I don't know about that, Epoman. I haven't posted ALL of my medical problems. Plus, you are older than me, so you've had more time to get more medical problems.    What about when you were my age??

Well I'll give you that, I am older than you.

So what all did you have when you were my age, if you don't mind me asking? 

Umm...Kidney Disease. I started dialysis at 20 and have been on for 13+ years. The doctors told me I should have been on dialysis 6 to 8 years prior, I should have died. They could not believe my.....WAIT just read my "Intro". 

- Epoman

[RichardMEL]

Shay, I don't know how old you are, and to me it doesn't really matter... It reads from your post that you feel overwhealmed with all of the issues you have to deal with, and no I do not know them all of course, kidney disease is enough for anyone to deal with let alone whatever else is going on for you.

And I feel for you. Sometimes I read some intros here and I think "Oh My God how can they cope with X,Y and Z?" and I feel so minor with *just* kidney failure and crappy eyesight?!

But at the same time I think that I then realise that these people, and you too Shay, are the really inspirational ones! So much to deal with and you keep on going, and there IS a reason to keep on going.. of that I am pretty sure!

I do not know what that reason may be. It may be different for everuone. Perhaps Epo's reason, for example, was to create this community and to unite all of us in a support network? Perhaps yours is to meet someone truly amazing to you (if you haven't already.. sorry I have not read your intro!)... or some other thing.

I tend to agree with Epo.. when your number is up... your number is up.. before then.. get on with it. That's why I flew to the US the week after 9/11.... And that's why I go to dialysis 3x/week and try to live my life as best I can.

chin up Shay... *hugs offered*

[RichardMEL]

I have just gone back and re-read Lost Sheep's various posts.

I wonder Lost, if you did get a transplant and/or a donation from family, would you go back (or continue???) to use drugs (of whichever sort?) and lead the same sort of semi-hedonistic lifestyle that you have aluded to (finally!) in your posts?

If the answer is yes, I would tend to recommend against transplantation.

That I guess comes across as very rude and judgemental but frankly if I was going to be a donor I would not want my vital organ going to someone who would do their best to screw it up as quickly as possible. That idea makes me sad.

I also wonder why you have felt the need to indulge in the lifestyle you have. I do not try to judge because I definitely believe everyone is entitled to live as they wish and do what they want, as long as it doesn't affect others... but seems to me the main use of drugs, booze, etc is to escape the reality of the life you are in.

You seem very certain and confident in your assertion (bordering on arrogant in some respects) that you have done all you wanted in life. I thought about that during my dialysis session today (it seemed appropriate ) and I came to the conclusion that that seems a pretty naive thing to say and think. HOW CAN YOU KNOW what there is to life fully? Heck I don't know the answer to that. I doubt Plato or other philosophers do/did either. I tend to think life as much about the experience of *living* including the little every day things (and the big) as well as the PEOPLE you affect and affect you... who you interact with.. from that beloved girlfriend in college to the guy you buy a hot dog from.

Finally you accuse others of being judgemental yet you yourself made some sweeping generalisations about those in North America (and elsewhere) and the way they lead their lives. Now don't get me wrong, I agree with you if you mean the generalisation of those people that think a great day is sitting in front of the box watching Jerry Springer... but that opinion is just as judgemental as anyone here who says "you did drugs. you are bad mkay!"...

Anyway Lost, I still contend that underneath all the bluster you're really reaching out.. either that or just seeking attention with this whole thread. Guess what pal.. it worked!! Well done!!

So surely it's worth if it you can get attention from a bunch of judgemental people such as us to respond to your comments... think some more you just might find a few more reasons to make it worth the effort.

Peace.