Question about Hypnosis.

[kristina]

I decided to try Hypnosis as a way of helping me in my pre-D-state.
I wanted to try something which didn’t involve medication or anything bodily intrusive.

After half an hour of generally talking about my situation
and what the Hypnotist thought was specific about my situation, they then introduced Hypnosis.

I would relax and they would talk, in a very gentle voice,
and then count from 1 to 10 through which time they said my eyes would get heavy,
I would become very relaxed and I would ostensibly end-up in a hypnotic state or type of sleep.

Over the next 15 minutes they would talk through the programme they had selected,
appropriate for my situation and then they would bring me out of Hypnosis
by counting from 1 to 10 through which time I would open my eyes.

As far as I was concerned, on each of the three occasions I only ever felt
as though as I was very deeply relaxed, but I was fully conscious, in fact,
not that much different than I would be as if I would be relaxing at home,
listening to my favourite music or playing on the Fortepiano.

I had not fallen into any deep sleep, or any other state, which might be called “hypnotic”.

I have two CD’s of the sessions of every word that was said
and I have listened to them at home and undoubtedly it does help me to relax,
but perhaps it would not be that much different than a “talking book”.

I don’t understand how people can talk about distant child-hood experiences etc.,
which they cannot recall consciously, but can, whilst under Hypnosis?
I do not understand how people can withstand pain inflicted upon them apparently
without feeling anything, whilst under Hypnosis on stage?

I thought about all this.

Two things bother me. One was that each time I went
they offered me a cup of water which I never accepted
as a principle when going to a strange place,
and secondly, I never went into a deep sleep or any deep hypnotic state,
(I was always perfectly aware about everything around me).

It then came into my mind that they may put something in the water
which causes an hypnotic state after about half an hour?

It sounds a bit strange and I can’t quite believe this could happen,
but there again there are many peculiar things happening in this world.

When I was so deeply relaxed, if someone was to have
whispered in my ear: “get out quick” you could not have seen me for dust.

My question is: Has anyone had a similar experience and what have they thought about it?

Thanks from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

I have some small amount of experience with this.

However, I AM NO EXPERT; I had several sessions with a hypnotherapist to help me with anxiety.

And THAT is the answer to your question, I believe...you saw what I can only assume is a hypnotherapist.  People who claim to put into a trance so that you will bark like a dog and not remember anything about it afterwards are not therapists who are there to help you.

I would venture to say that the reason you are merely deeply relaxed and are not in a "trance" is because if you are going to be active in your own care, you have to be aware of what you are doing.  Deep relaxation techniques are helpful because you can do them really any time, anywhere you feel safe and comfortable.  You have enough control over yourself to keep you safe.  What use is a hypnotic trance if you have no memory of what went on?  That's not helpful!

Does this make sense?

[kristina]

Thanks MooseMom, I understand what you have said and I entirely agree with you.

Do you believe that someone could be put into a “deep sleep”,
so that they can recall events in their early childhood
which they would otherwise not be able to recall?

Is this possible?
 
It doesn’t seem to me to be possible, unless "drugs" are involved?

This is why I refused to drink the cup of water which was offered to me.

It is also why I took a friend with me who sat with me at the sessions.

Thanks from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

I honestly don't know if it is possible to enable people to remember painful memories that are buried so deeply.  I don't even know if dredging up that sort of pain would be beneficial.  Those things stay buried for a reason.  I have never really considered the possibility because I have never suffered such trauma so young.

[kristina]

Thanks MooseMum, it is very interesting your notion
that some things stay buried for a reason.

I was wondering if there are different levels of Hypnosis
of which the deep Hypnosis is induced by “drugs”?

Thanks form Kristina.

[Hazmat35]

I would love to go to a Hypnotist. . . my biggest fear is that my G/F would have plant some sort of stupid subliminal message within me.   

Like every time I heard a bell ring, I'd cluck like a chicken. . . or something! 

[kristina]

Hazmat35, there is no way quack, quack
that I am brubbling like a chicken quack quack...   

[texasstyle]

 Years ago someone did some meditation/hypnoses on myself a couple friends. It was more a thing to relax your body and mind. I ended in the best state of relaxation I was ever in! The neatest part was when I "coming to" I giggled becase I felt a natrual buzz lol.

[keefbeer]

My wife has tried hypnosis to help her stop smoking, it did not work on either occasion. I was blamed of course as she felt she was never really under because I had told her she would wake up and her underwear would be on back to front!
http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/Smileys/classic/Sir_Ken.gif

[kristina]

Hello, texasstyle, yes it is true, Hypnosis is very, very relaxing.
But for me it was not that much more relaxing than
listening to my favourite music whilst resting on the settee.

But I am glad I faced-up to it,
at least I do not have to wonder about it anymore.
 
Interestingly, what actually helped me
was the pre-talk before the Hypnosis,
which brought out several points
which I hadn’t considered before
and which really helped me
better comprehend my situation.
 
But this had nothing to do with the Hypnosis,
and I may very well have had a similar experience
talking about my situation with someone else.

Hello, keefbeer, I won’t take sides here,
but I did not fall under any hypnotic spell,
and that was not because I was resisting,
as I felt secure because a friend was sitting next to me.

P.S. The little one in your picture is ever so sweet.

Thanks from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

I don't know if putting someone in a hypnotic trance and, through the use of drugs, have them recall distant traumas is something that really happens, but if it did, and if the therapist gave a patient these drugs without permission, that would actually be assault and would be highly unethical, not to mention illegal.

Kristina, sitting quietly and listening to a piece of music and allowing your mind and body to gradually drift downward into complete relaxation pretty much IS what a hypnotherapist tries to achieve.  Many people, however, cannot do this.  They may define "relaxation" as getting comfy and listening to some music but allowing their minds to drift through dark and scary avenues.  Many people have to be taught to psychologically "relax", and this is where a hypnotherapist can help.  My mother dealt with anxiety by staying so busy that she didn't have time to think, and that's all well and good until you're sitting in a dialysis chair and literally can't run away from your thoughts.

I remember my hypnotherapist doing one exercise with me that I thought was fascinating.  He wanted me to allow my mind to pick a colour that would, whenever I saw it, be a cue to relax.  So he did the whole thing where he lead me down through deeper and deeper levels of relaxation, and I so wanted my mind to pick some colour I really liked, like a soft turquoise.  My mind kept leading to me to a very vibrant fuschia!

What is it that you "faced up to" and don't have to wonder about any more?  I think I may have missed something here.  Also, I'd be very curious to know which points you had not considered before came to the fore.

I am reading a book right now called "How to be Sick"; I found a webcast with the author on Lori Hartwell's site "Kidney Talk."  If you are interested, I'll tell you a bit more about it.  I think it might be helpful to me.  I've struggled with the psychological effects of CKD for such a long time and have tried so many different tactics, and I think I am finally able to begin piecing together a support net for myself, and I think this book might help me with the stitching...

[kristina]

Thanks for your extremely interesting reply, MooseMom.

It would seem then that I am lucky that I can really deeply relax with my music.

But I was not aware of that because it has been with me all my life and I am just used to it
and use it automatically without thinking about it.

The point which the Hypnotherapist interestingly brought out in our pre-talk
was the fact that as a child I suffered mental abuse from the people who brought me up,
(who were not my genetic parents, as I found out much later...)
and this mental abuse conditioned me to withdraw and distance myself from such confrontation.
This continued year on year right into my adulthood.
 
The result of this early conditioning caused me to distance myself,
perhaps go away from, any distressing or confrontational issue
which I came across dealing with other people.

(This includes most horrendous experiences connected with the medical profession).

Of course, this is the wrong way to deal with a situation.
One should stand fast and sort the matter out speedily.

But I never was able to do this, and the talk with the Hypnotherapist
showed me it was an early conditioning which put me into this position.

So now, as a mature adult I now train myself to stand my ground
and achieve the resolution I want if that is possible.

But this was not achieved under Hypnosis, and I feel it was fortunate
that I saw this person and talked about it because I never talk about
personal matters such as this with anyone else.
(Even talking about personal matters is a learning process for me)...

I think we will all appreciate any helpful hints and little nuggets of wisdom
which you may find in your book...

Thanks again from Kristina.

[KICKSTART]

What were you trying to achieve? I dont for one minute think anyone would want to drug you, but i know you have a deep mistrust of anyone medical or linked to that profession. Did the person you went to see come recommended? Could it be you saw the wrong type of person ? Was this person just a quack? Like you get with spiritualists? Did they just take your money and then do a few nice relaxing things ? If thats the case spend your money on a massage next time , warm room , nice candles and whale music in the background, thats as relaxing as anything. All that aside , what did you want from your session ?

[jbeany]

Do you believe that someone could be put into a “deep sleep”,
so that they can recall events in their early childhood
which they would otherwise not be able to recall?

Is this possible?
 
It doesn’t seem to me to be possible, unless "drugs" are involved?

I think it's possible to trigger memories without drugs- the hypnosis just leads you into a state that allows you to access memories you have always carried, but that aren't accessible easily.  The doc talks you through some exercises that help you access those stored memories.  Some very strange things act as memory triggers - scent being the strongest - but words, phrases, sounds, textures, colors, even motions can trigger memories as well.

If I asked you to list all the toys you owned as a child, would you be able to come close?  If I then showed you catalogs of Christmas "Wish Books" from the years you were a child, how many more do you think you would remember?  The pictures would trigger memories of owning and playing with toys that you hadn't been able to access by simply trying to list them.

I remember my hypnotherapist doing one exercise with me that I thought was fascinating.  He wanted me to allow my mind to pick a colour that would, whenever I saw it, be a cue to relax.  So he did the whole thing where he lead me down through deeper and deeper levels of relaxation, and I so wanted my mind to pick some colour I really liked, like a soft turquoise.  My mind kept leading to me to a very vibrant fuschia!

Amazing what really is hiding in back of your brain, isn't it?  My sister and I attended a seminar that we thought was going to be about applying the principles of feng shui to modern decorating.  Instead, the instructor went full bore into trying to get us to "balance our chi" with giant weird drums and chimes playing while we sprawled on the floor, attempted to relax our "inner eye."  Then, he asked us to picture the spirit of our household.  When I let my thoughts flow, I pictured a giant rabbit-shaped "dust bunnie" walking down the hallway and starting giggling so hard I had to leave by sneaking out the back door!

[kristina]

Kickstart, I would like to say that I am not mistrustful
of “anyone medical” or linked to the medical profession.

I have had some very successful experiences
(The medical Professor’s great medical advice etc.),
but I have also had some very seriously bad experiences. -

Sorry, but I have no idea whether the Hypnotherapist was a “quack”
and I don’t know anything about “spiritualists”.

There are many things in life which may, or may not, help us,
and sometimes it might be worth trying one or another.

I had no prior expectation, I just wanted to know whether there was
a possibility that they could be helpful.

Thanks, jbeany, you are quite right about the many things
that can trigger past experiences, and probably this is as good
a way as any to recall the past.

Being in a relaxed state whilst trying to recall things,
using some type of trigger may possibly be a good way
to remember the things in the distant past.

Thanks from Kristina.

[MooseMom]

OK, Kristina...make yourself a cuppa, get comfy and get ready because I feel a long post coming on!

First, I will tell you that I have done a lot...spoken to many professionals...to create coping mechanisms for myself, and not with a huge amount of success.  I have had appointments with a psychiatrist, a counsellor, a therapist, a hypnotherapist and even a naturalist.  My goal was to just come to terms with what had happened to me and to find some joy in life.  I no longer knew how to feel pleasure in a meaningful way.  I knew that I was not clinically depressed.  I was angry (still am) and resentful (still am) and frightened (still am).  I did not think that those feelings were invalid, and I was not trying to eliminate them entirely because I think that puts an impossible burden on oneself, but I WAS trying to find a balance...I was trying to find a way not to feel those things all the time.  The problem with seeing counsellors or therapists is that I found myself just complaining to a "trained professional" who really could not comprehend what I was feeling; it was not their fault.  They just didn't have the experience I believed they needed to "get it", so, rightly or wrongly, I'd tune them out.

So I came across this book, "How to be Sick" by Toni Bernhard.  She was a law professor.  She and her husband, Tony, planned a once in a lifetime trip to Paris.  Her first day there, she came down with the flu.  Long story short, she never recovered.  Nine years later, she still has the flu minus the coughing and fever.  It's as if her immune system has been permanently stuck on "fight the flu" mode.  She had to quit her job because she was so ill all the time.  She rarely sees friends and family.  She spends much of her time in bed.  Imagine having the flu for the rest of your life.  Imagine how isolating that would be.  Imagine how it would feel to watch the world go on without you, to see your family interact with one another while you could barely make it out of your bedroom.  How does one cope with that?  How can you learn "how to be sick" and still remain sane?

Ironically, Toni had long been interested in Buddhist practice and teachings and had done a lot of research into this realm.  She attended many retreats and studied the works of many Buddhist masters.  Yet when she was suddenly faced with this medical mystery, all of the things she learned, she forgot.  She finally realized that her Buddhist studies might be the key to helping her live a life that was going to be very different from the one she had planned to live.

So I thought to myself...this woman knows what it feels like to be chronically ill, what it feels like on many levels.  Maybe this is someone I can learn something from.  I had to find the right messenger so that I would be more conducive to the message.

I am only halfway through the book so far, but there are some things that I have found to be extremely helpful.  I've been a very tough nut to crack, so for me, after 20 years, to find something that helps me construct my coping mechanisms is profoundly satisfying.

(Let me say at this point that no one is trying to convert anyone to Buddhism or to any religion at all.  Buddhism is not really a religion, rather, it is a philosphy.  You can be athiest or Christian or Muslim or Jewish or a man from Mars and still find some wisdom here.)

1.  Cultivate compassion for yourself.  Toni writes how she will think to herself, "My poor body, working so hard to keep going, to feel better" and will stroke one arm with the hand of the other.  When I read that, it made me cry.  I thought about how my body has been under assault for 20 years from CKD yet is still serving me well enough...it works so hard so that I may keep on living.

2.  "Facing the Ups and Downs of Chronic Illness with Equanimity" defined as "mental calmness and evenness of temper, especially in a difficult situation."  Practicing "equanimity" helps in coping with hurtful comments from people who say "you don't look sick" and such, with the unpredictability that goes with chronic illness and with the feelings of loss that are also a part of chronic illness.

There is just so much more, and I don't want to do the book injustice by trying to paraphrase it.  It is the sort of book that gradually guides you to the main point, and without that guidance, the point looks unattainable.  Kristina, I really recommend this book to you and to anyone who is struggling with this stuff.  It is "How to be Sick - A Buddhist-inspired Guide for the Chronically Ill and their Caregivers."  If you'd like to PM me your address, I will buy one and have it sent to you; it is available on Amazon.co.uk.

[KICKSTART]

Kristina dear , you always think im on the attack with you !!!! But at the same time i think you would make a very good politician as you always manage to avoid my questions ! When you first came on here we locked horns several times , so how you can say you dont trust the medical profession from previous posts , i dont know. I have asked you did the person you saw come recommended ..no answer. What did you want to achieve ..no answer.
Just tell me plain and simple ,why did you go to see this person and what did you expect them to do for you ?
No one can help you if you ignore the negative feedback or actually ignore peoples questions , when you post.
I have actually in the past been to see a faith healer, why ? i dont know , maybe half of me wanted to believe but at the same time i knew it was a waste of time and money. so why did you go , in the hope of what ?

[gothiclovemonkey]

I had a friend go to a festival, she got hypnotized, and it was an adult show, they made her do things she said she wouldnt have done otherwise, and felt very strange and sick for days after. I ended up looking up the guy who did it, contacting him, he said that some people have trouble coming all the way out of it, its different for everyone.
Also, when i was in school, our graduation party a hypnotist came, and he told anyone who has medical problems should not get hypnotized, so i didnt participate...
i think it all depends on ur own brain

[kristina]

Thanks MooseMum, I can understand how you feel and what you are going through.

I have similar thoughts because in ESRF pre-dialysis I don’t know what will happen next,
will I be on Dialysis soon, or will I get better,
and why am I staying for over two years  around 10-12% GFR
which is not at all ideal and I don’t know where I really am.

The thoughts you mention sound very interesting
and they echo some of the ideas I have come across
in how to deal with “chronic disease”.
I think a lot of these things I do automatically because I had been suffering from the effects
of Mixed Connective Tissue Disease /Lupus all my life
and so I have been experiencing bouts of illness and major health problems
over a very long period of time.

What I was mainly interested in was finding something which may relax me further
because stress is a major trigger for MCTD/Lupus-flare-ups which in term, in my case,
hits the kidneys (chron. proliferative glomerulonephritis).
So, if I can lower stress even further,
I feel I can give my kidneys a better chance to carry on.

Thank you for pointing-put these very interesting thoughts.
There are always little things which one can pick-up and use
and one never knows where these are,
so it is always important to keep one’s mind open
in order to see what might be suitable.
 
Thanks from Kristina.

Kickstart, I shall answer these questions:

First of all, I would love to be a polititian,
because they rake in "mega-dosh"
and I could really do with some!

To come back to your serious questions:

No, the Hypnotherapist was not recommended.

I wanted to achieve an improvement in my kidney-function
which I thought might result from lowering the stress I am under
because my kidney failure (chron. proliferative glomerulonephritis)
is due to an MCTD-Lupus flare-up,
which is always triggered and exacerbated by stress in my case.

I hoped that the Hypnotherapist could help lower my stress-level.

You mention faith-healing, this is not what I would go for,
I only wanted to lower my stress-levels further,
because the MCTD/Lupus is a an auto-immune-disease
and when I am in any stress my antibodies fight my body,
and so the help I am looking for has a very practical angle to it.
 
In my situation I, in ESRF-pre-dialysis,
I fear I am sitting on a very rickety fence
which is swaying backwards and forwards
and I don’t know which way I fall, if I fall at all.

So, you can see from this why I might have stress building up now and again,
and this is no good for my fragile kidneys.

I hope, this fully explains my position and what I am looking for.

Thanks from Kristina.

Thanks gothiclovemonkey, that is very, very interesting what you mention
about someone saying that people with medical problems should not get hypnotized.
This is obviously a warning – but why?

The fact that someone became unwell after Hypnosis conjures-up negative imagines,
though perhaps their poor health was unrelated. It is all food for thought, isn’t it?

Thanks from Kristina.

[KICKSTART]

Yes Kristina that explains it perfectly ..you went for stress management. The best way to find people to go see is by word of mouth. So many people can put an ad in the paper etc and really how do you know if they are qualified ?. For stress maybe you should look more towards a japanese influence is it ..Ti Chi? Im sure someone will be along to give you more info !

[MooseMom]

Kristina, the author of the book I told you about has a website:

www.howtobesick.com

It's just a site where you can hear her talk about her experiences with really debilitating chronic illness of a mysterious nature.  Stress exacerbates her condition, so in that regard, she is very much like you.  She has had to learn how to cope with resentment and isolation on top of physical distress (I mean, this woman is too ill to leave her home!).  She works to drop the resentment of isolation and instead bask in the glory of solitude.  But these things take practice, Kristina.  Not knowing what will happen next is a concern she specifically addresses...the stress that comes from incertainty (again, much like in your situation and in mine, for that matter).  She gives the reader things to practice...and this means you have to WORK at it...with a goal of coping with circumstances just like yours.

Please, as a favour to me, just go to the website and look at it.  I finished the book last night, and while there were bits that got a bit "too Buddhist" to me, I will say right here and now that this book has been one of the few things that have helped me (another being IHD) because it gave me things I could ACTIVELY DO to heal my mind.  There is no pill, no doctor, no lab test or no treatment protocol that is going to heal your mind and lessen your psychological stress.  Sometimes we have to find other therapies on our own, and after spending a LOT of time and a LOT of money on all kinds of avenues, reading this book written by someone who has had the very same thoughts that you and I have had has given me a few tools that I can use in times of stress and also in times of relaxation.

There is one chapter about speech and how one should not speak unless what you have to say fulfills three (and ALL three) criteria...is it true, is it kind and is it helpful?  In these days of such prolific communication via the internet (and the author does talk about the wonders of the internet and discusses the "communities" online that provide so much support from "people like me"...she'd LOVE IHD), she stresses the importance of speech that is true, kind and helpful.  So from now on, everytime I post on IHD, I will be mindful of that (except on the "write a story three words at a time" thread!).

Good luck!

[KICKSTART]

I think i need that book Moosey , only trouble is im not so good with reading that tends to get heavy !

[paris]

Regarding triggering childhood memories -- I had a blocked memory of horrible experiences in my childhood. If you would have asked me if this happened to me, I would have said definitely NO.  In my late 30's, someone said something and with an intense flash of recognition, it all came vividly back - details, rooms, people, etc.   Scariest experience I ever had.  I wish I could put the memory back where it was - I don't like having it in my brain!   I think I am too afraid to ever go to a hypnotist for fear there are more bad memories and I don't need them!   Stress is such a part of this disease --worry what is to be, how do I do this. etc.  Somewhere along the way, I decided that stress and worry could not own my life. They couldn't take away my joy in living dialysis free for as long as I could.  I did the best I could for myself and realized I could control the stress.  It is so hard, and there are moments when it creeps back.  Like today at the transplant clinic when the surgeon thought I should have an MRI due to some speech and walking problems.  Thankfully, he listens to me, and I am going to keep a journal for a bit so he can see when and where these things are happening.  Stressed immediately when he said MRI, but found a way to put it aside and have a physical way to work toward an answer. Keeping my mind and body busy with things that make me happy helps.

I am sorry you keep having so much trouble with worry and stress. The waiting and waiting for the next step is horrible.   The "what ifs " is terrifying.  I hope you find some answers on coping skills that work for you.   

[MooseMom]

I think i need that book Moosey , only trouble is im not so good with reading that tends to get heavy !

It's not a long book; it is easy to read.  Like I said, Toni often quotes spiritual leaders with unpronouceable names that seem to have more consonants than vowels, but she is good at condensing the idea into a form that's easier to understand (this is the first "self-help" book I've ever read, so I was grateful that she summed up her points well.)  Best of all, though, she would give an example of how she would employ a particular action into coping with a particular issue exacerbated by her illness.  So, it wasn't all just airy fairy bumph, which drives me mad. 

If you'd trust me with your mailing address, I will buy one for you and have it sent to you.  You might hate it; it may be too much work.  You DO have to practice what she preaches.  Even she has times when it is easier to fall back into old ways of thinking.  It's hard being serene!  But if you are interested, I'd be honored to send you one!  My gift to you!  You've rather been through the wars lately and could use a little prezzie!   It's the sort of book that you can read at your leisure or can pick up and review certain bits when you need to.

[MooseMom]

BTW, if anyone is interested in this sort of book, I have downloaded it onto my Nook, and it is available for me to lend for 14 days to anyone else who has a Nook.  All I would need is your email address.  I've never lent a book via my Nook, so I'll have to read the instructions on how to do it, but I'd be happy to do this if anyone is interested.