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Author Topic: What happens when you cave...  (Read 5315 times)
MooseMom
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« on: November 16, 2010, 07:29:28 PM »

I often feel bad for my husband because he has to live with my stupid renal diet.  I don't ever make him follow my diet, but I'm always wittering on about how I can't have this or that or the other.  My husband loves his food...he celebrates with food, grieves with food, relaxes with food and occupies himself with food.  I can promise you that he would NEVER be able to follow any sort of restricted diet.  He can do lots of things, but watching what he eats just is not one of them.  I often bitterly tell him how damned lucky he is. :rofl;

Last week, he was coming home late and said that he would be passing by a KFC and would I like him to stop and pick up dinner (in that "Mom, can I have a puppy?" voice).  He knew I would say no, but he seemed to want it so badly, and I caved.  I had KFC for dinner, and OMG, it was like eating a bag of salt.  I was very good and ordered renally friendly sides (green beans and slaw instead of, say, pinto beans and mashed potatoes), but I couldn't avoid the chicken, and I was shocked at how salty it was.  I have not had fried chicken in about a decade (except once when it was homemade), and I was reminded why.  I don't have to watch my sodium intake, but I do, anyway, and the result is that I just don't tolerate salty foods very well.  I am glad to report that I do not miss KFC.  That's the last time I cave! :puke;
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
okarol
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2010, 07:45:53 PM »

 :thumbup; Hey, that's a good outcome huh?
I have heard that before, if you reduce your salt you realize how much is added in foods.
I don't know if it works with chocolate though...  :shy;
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
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MooseMom
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 07:58:15 PM »

I think in a past life, my husband was a woman because he loves chocolate, whereas I am ambivalent.  I don't have much of a sweet tooth.  Giving up chocolate has been easy peasy lemon squeezy for me, although my dietician did tell me that I could have a fun-sized York Peppermint Patty from time to time if I wanted to.  I like those, but just one is enough for me.
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
RichardMEL
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 09:54:57 PM »

dear MM. you're human. You CAN have "treats"(lets call them that :) ) from time to time. Also since you're pre-D, it's not as much a problem for you  now to have stuff like that. I mean hell I was eating chocolate and pineapple on pizza(yes yes I know everyone thinks it is wrong!) right up till I started D and the dietician gave me the list of high-K foods to avoid. Even still, on the dialysis diet I find ways to treat myself from time to time and still stay reasonably on track with the diet - or rather the labs. Again it's all about moderation. A bit of extra salt won't harm you that much. You're intelligent, you're not sleeping in the stuff. Responsible eating means you'll probably be OK.

Let's say you were on D and you "caved" with a KFC meal.... it's not going to kill you. What I do when I treat myself is moderate through the rest of the day - so if I have something that is higher in K, then for the rest of the day I have low-K stuff so overall it balances out.

Don't deny yourself because of the diet... just think moderation.

I've spoken about this with the dieticians and most of them seem to agree that this is a sensible road to take (and I have the labs to back it up with )

bottom line: don't beat yourself up about having KFC tonight... but don't have it tomorrow! :)
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3/1993: Diagnosed with Kidney Failure (FSGS)
25/7/2006: Started hemo 3x/week 5 hour sessions :(
27/11/2010: Cadaveric kidney transplant from my wonderful donor!!! "Danny" currently settling in and working better every day!!! :)

BE POSITIVE * BE INFORMED * BE PROACTIVE * BE IN CONTROL * LIVE LIFE!
jbeany
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 10:42:21 PM »

You get used to low salt quickly, don't you?  I don't even go down the soup aisle at the store - I can't stand any of it.
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paul.karen
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2010, 07:14:53 AM »

I cant follow the diet at all.  My labs yesterday were really bad.  Well actually only the Phosphorus was bad everything else is pretty much in line.  My phosphorus went from 6.2 (which is too high)  to 8.1 in a month.  My range is between 3.5-5.5.
I just always forget my binders even when they are sitting right in front of me.

Albumin. potassium, calcium, and cholesterol are all in range.

As for KFC they have the best coleslaw :thumbup;
Big props to all who do so well on there restricted diets. 
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KarenInWA
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2010, 08:07:25 AM »

Here's my take on the Pre-D Kidney Diet: "Eat nothing, but be sure to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain your weight."  Um, okay, I'll get right on it!

I was literally told that my "free" foods I can have are jelly beans and marshmellows.  WTF???

The kidney diet is nothing short of a joke, IMO.  I cannot follow it.  I don't go overboard with protein, but I am not going to severly restrict it in my life, either.  I enjoy meat, I enjoy eating, and I refuse to cut that enjoyment out of my life.  I also have a weakness for KFC mashed potatoes, and if I'm craving them, then I'm having them!  From what I figure, if I were to actually follow the highly regressive kidney diet, I would not be able to eat much of anything, and I'd probably weigh around 110 lbs.  At 5'8", that is not a good thing.  Also, what the hell am I supposed to do when I have breast cancer on both sides of my family, yet foods that can help keep that away, like broccolli, are "dangerous" in the highly regressive kidney diet?  I figure I'm just going to eat what I like w/o going overboard, and if I die early, then oh well.  Life with that many restrictions ain't worth living, anyway.

KarenInWA
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1996 - Diagnosed with Proteinuria
2000 - Started seeing nephrologist on regular basis
Mar 2010 - Started Aranesp shots - well into CKD4
Dec 1, 2010 - Transplant Eval Appt - Listed on Feb 10, 2012
Apr 18, 2011 - Had fistula placed at GFR 8
April 20, 2011 - Had chest cath placed, GFR 6
April 22, 2011 - Started in-center HD. Continued to work FT and still went out and did things: live theater, concerts, spend time with friends, dine out, etc
May 2011 - My Wonderful Donor offered to get tested!
Oct 2011  - My Wonderful Donor was approved for surgery!
November 23, 2011 - Live-Donor Transplant (Lynette the Kidney gets a new home!)
April 3, 2012 - Routine Post-Tx Biopsy (creatinine went up just a little, from 1.4 to 1.7)
April 7, 2012 - ER admit to hospital, emergency surgery to remove large hematoma caused by biopsy
April 8, 2012 - In hospital dialysis with 2 units of blood
Now: On the mend, getting better! New Goal: No more in-patient hospital stays! More travel and life adventures!
MooseMom
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 09:50:36 AM »

Richard, I got myself into a right tiswas some time ago about the diet.  I just got overwhelmed with information and couldn't see the forest for the trees.  So, I scheduled an appt with the dietician, and she actually told me to loosen up a bit and that eating "taboo" foods in moderation was fine.  I just needed the reassurance.

As far as KFC goes, the point I was trying to make was that I don't see KFC as a "treat" at all.  I didn't make myself clear...what I caved in to was not any desire for KFC but, rather, my HUSBAND's desire for KFC.  When I bit into that salt bomb they called fried chicken, I hated hated hated it.  And I loved it that I hated hated hated it because it made me realize that I am up to the task of eating what is good for me.  Eating what is good for me has become my "treat" because quite honestly, I have come to dislike foods that I know will hurt me.  I have no problem with moderation, and that is what thrills me...I have no problem with it!  Somehow along the way, my thinking has gradually evolved to accepting the diet and being happy to avoid the crap that I know is harmful.  I will have the occasional spoonful of beans or a few slices of banana on cereal, but I don't feel anymore like I am depriving myself if I don't have the BOWL of beans or TWO bananas in a day.

What I do still dislike, though, is having to even think about it at all.  I don't like the whole idea of such sweeping restrictions.  I hate getting food advice from people who know nothing about kidney disease.  It makes me mad to hear all this stuff about eating plenty of fresh fruit and veg because on a renal diet, you just can't eat PLENTY of anything.  KarenInWA actually has the right idea...the less you eat, the less danger there is. ::)
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
greg10
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 10:05:25 AM »

Have you tried the KFC grilled chicken?*  :shy;

It is still loaded with salt, but at least it is about half that of the original recipe: http://www.kfc.com/nutrition/pdf/kfc_nutrition.pdf

And avoid the breast, it seems to have the highest sodium content perhaps just because of the surface area.

*none of these are from personal experience.  I don't remember the last time I stepped into a KFC.
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Newbie caretaker, so I may not know what I am talking about :)
Caretaker for my elderly father who has his first and current graft in March, 2010.
Previously in-center hemodialysis in national chain, now doing NxStage home dialysis training.
End of September 2010: after twelve days of training, we were asked to start dialyzing on our own at home, reluctantly, we agreed.
If you are on HD, did you know that Rapid fluid removal (UF = ultrafiltration) during dialysis is associated with cardiovascular morbidity?  http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=20596
We follow a modified version: UF limit = (weight in kg)  *  10 ml/kg/hr * (130 - age)/100

How do you know you are getting sufficient hemodialysis?  Know your HDP!  Scribner, B. H. and D. G. Oreopoulos (2002). "The Hemodialysis Product (HDP): A Better Index of Dialysis Adequacy than Kt/V." Dialysis & Transplantation 31(1).   http://www.therenalnetwork.org/qi/resources/HDP.pdf
MooseMom
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2010, 11:42:09 AM »

I actually don't remember ever stepping into a KFC.  I'm sure I have at some time in my life, but I do not remember when.

No, I don't think I'll try the grilled chicken; I don't think I will be trying any more chicken from KFC.  If I want grilled chicken, I'll do it myself.  Luckily, I have the time, so it is easier for me to avoid processed food than it is for people who have busier lives than I do.  I have the time to cook here at home, but I think my husband likes fast food more than he does my cooking! :rofl;  Actually, I'm not a bad cook, but I think my husband grew up eating a fair amount of food that came from jars or boxes, and his tastebuds sometimes get stuck at "teenaged boy."
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
RichardMEL
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2010, 01:32:04 AM »

MM I apologise for misunderstanding what you were talking about. Thanks for clarifying. Yes, it's funny when i eat something with heaps of salt boy can I tell - and you're right... it's not even very nice!! I guess we do train ourselves over time by eating what we need to eat so when we "stray" (for want of a better phrase) you really can tell. It's great you don't even really want to go there too!!!!

Karen - you know I've never quite gotten the limiting of protein thing prior to D starting. Before I started D all I was told in terms of diet was to limit salt. I could eat as much meat, cheese, tomato (etc) as I wanted. I too would find it hard to limit protein like that and face those limitations.

I honestly wonder what limiting protein like that really does to assist your remaining kidney function? I don't know of course, but I doubt that I'd have gotten much more out of my kidneys if I limited like that before I started. I wonder if your neph/dietician are being overly cautious - and making YOU miserable in the process?

I reckon if I was pre-D again I'd rather enjoy those sorts of things while I could. I don't mean go stupid, but heck it seems the time to not restrict so much should be now.

Of course I have to note that I do not know your individual circumstance, and there could WELL be a very GOOD reason for those limits you have - I guess we have to be mindful of everyone's different situations - just because I was allowed to eat whatever doesn't mean it's wise for anyone else to.

That sucks and I'm sorry :(
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3/1993: Diagnosed with Kidney Failure (FSGS)
25/7/2006: Started hemo 3x/week 5 hour sessions :(
27/11/2010: Cadaveric kidney transplant from my wonderful donor!!! "Danny" currently settling in and working better every day!!! :)

BE POSITIVE * BE INFORMED * BE PROACTIVE * BE IN CONTROL * LIVE LIFE!
MooseMom
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2010, 09:25:06 AM »

I've gleaned that eating a lot of protein puts extra stress on your kidneys, but it was not my neph who told me that.  The only doctor who has ever said anything to me about the protein issue was the transplant surgeon I met at my first eval back in 2004.  It was the day before T-giving, and he flippantly told me not to eat too much turkey.

As for salt, my neph told me to ADD salt to my diet to combat high potassium.  I didn't add enough, I guess, because I have to take 8 sodium bicarb tablets a day, and this seems to help (along with watching my diet).

I restrict myself on the Pre-D diet because it makes me feel like I have some sort of control over my situation.  It's psychologically comforting to me to be able to skip the bananas and eat berries instead.  It's something I can do to keep myself healthy because Lord knows there's not much else I can do.  FSGS has control over my life.
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"Eggs are so inadequate, don't you think?  I mean, they ought to be able to become anything, but instead you always get a chicken.  Or a duck.  Or whatever they're programmed to be.  You never get anything interesting, like regret, or the middle of last week."
Deanne
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2010, 10:18:34 AM »

Popeye's is MUCH better than KFC!  :rofl;

I don't have any dietary restrictions right now, other than "everything in moderation" and I try very hard to appreciate the fact and eat a lot of "bad" things. I'm building memories for when the day comes that the restrictions begin. I had potassium restrictions for a while, but my neph reduced my dose of lisinipril and my potassium level went back to normal.
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Deanne

1972: Diagnosed with "chronic kidney disease" (no specific diagnosis)
1994: Diagnosed with FSGS
September 2011: On transplant list with 15 - 20% function
September 2013: ~7% function. Started PD dialysis
February 11, 2014: Transplant from deceased donor. Creatinine 0.57 on 2/13/2014
RichardMEL
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2010, 04:19:37 AM »

I've gleaned that eating a lot of protein puts extra stress on your kidneys, but it was not my neph who told me that.  The only doctor who has ever said anything to me about the protein issue was the transplant surgeon I met at my first eval back in 2004.  It was the day before T-giving, and he flippantly told me not to eat too much turkey.
I had never heard of that before. Interesting.
Quote
I restrict myself on the Pre-D diet because it makes me feel like I have some sort of control over my situation.  It's psychologically comforting to me to be able to skip the bananas and eat berries instead.  It's something I can do to keep myself healthy because Lord knows there's not much else I can do.  FSGS has control over my life.

This is a great comment. Having some kind of control is very important I can absolutely relate to that. Kudos.
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3/1993: Diagnosed with Kidney Failure (FSGS)
25/7/2006: Started hemo 3x/week 5 hour sessions :(
27/11/2010: Cadaveric kidney transplant from my wonderful donor!!! "Danny" currently settling in and working better every day!!! :)

BE POSITIVE * BE INFORMED * BE PROACTIVE * BE IN CONTROL * LIVE LIFE!
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