It took a Britian

[BigSky]

No, honor killers are not all Muslim.  They are all CULTURALLY taught that women are no more than personal property.  The Koran does not condone these killings, but the Taliban does.  Are you generalizing once again that all Muslims are also Taliban?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.htm

Actually its far more than the taliban that condones them.

If I am to complain about anything, I'll continue to complain about Christians in positions of power that condoned and covered up the systematic sexual abuse of children in their care.

The correct thing would be those in the Catholic Church.  And yes many have spoken out against the church covering up gay priests molesting children.

I'm so glad that you posted how different Muslim countries treat non-Muslims.  Aren't you glad we're not like this here in the US?  Doesn't this make you proud to be American, that we are so careful to protect the religious freedom on which our core values are based?   You've proved my point, and I thank you.

Actually it does not prove anything for you.

For the simple fact that by the developers behind the project have already said this is a community center and not a Mosque.  As such, any claims that it gets protection on religious grounds is false.

And then there were the Crusades.

Very true Zach, but remember the First Crusade was to free Christians and regain the Holy Land which was taken in the Muslim conquest.

[MooseMom]

The debasement of women is, unfortunately, not confined to the Taliban or to Muslims or to even only one culture.  Did you bother to read the National Geographic article?  Do you see how prevalent this practice is?  The idea of women as property is timeless and universal.  Do you concede that point?

Are Catholics not Christians?  I doubt that a Muslim man in Pakistan or a Hindu in India reading about this disgrace would bother understanding the finer points of Catholicism vs Protestantism.  They hear about Christians...priests, for God's sake...sexually abusing children.  Just as you make generalizations about their religion, they will probably make generalizations about yours.

If the proposed mosque is just to be a community center, then why do you care where it is located?  And I truly would like to know...why do you care about how little religious tolerance there is in other countries?  If the King of Saudi Arabia doesn't allow churches in his country, why does it follow that we should not allow mosques here?  I don't understand the logical basis of that argument, which tells me there isn't one.  I truly do not understand why what Saudi Arabia does or what Iran does or what Mars does in this regard should influence what we do here in the United States of America.  Why do you let the policies of those countries you abhor affect what you feel we should be doing in this Beacon of Democracy?  Please please please...I really do want to understand this.

[MooseMom]

Like any military adventure executed in the name of God, any truly holy purpose was sullied by greed and slaughter.  The first Crusaders didn't just "recapture" Jerusalem; they slaughtered up to 70,000 people in the process and looted and pillaged the city.  And since they enjoyed that so much, they decided to do it again and again, but by the third time, it became such an expensive enterprise to wage war that it seriously depleted the mostly French treasury.  But what the hell...if you kill in the name of God, then it's OK, right?

I can give you a history lesson on the Spanish Reconquista if you'd like, complete with conversos and autos da fe.  I can tell you how the Catholic Kings, Ferdinand and Isabella, financed Christopher Columbus' journey to "India" in the hopes that treasure would be found to help pay for shipping all Muslims out of Spain.  Previous Christian kings in Spain had already shipped off the Jews.  At that time, being in favor with the Pope meant having political power, and Spain wanted to show that they were unsullied by the filth of the Jews and the Muslims, so out they went.  The Christian Kings puposely depopulated their country and impoverished most of Andalusia because getting rid of the "others", even those who they had forced to convert to Christianity, was more important than having a country's wealth and varied traditions intact.  Our own religion has it's history of murderous intolerance.

[BigSky]

Are Catholics not Christians?  I doubt that a Muslim man in Pakistan or a Hindu in India reading about this disgrace would bother understanding the finer points of Catholicism vs Protestantism.  They hear about Christians...priests, for God's sake...sexually abusing children.  Just as you make generalizations about their religion, they will probably make generalizations about yours.

Except my generalization has merit because it encompasses tens of millions of Muslims who live in those countries that are intolerant nearly completely of other religions.

If the proposed mosque is just to be a community center, then why do you care where it is located?

Actually its not a proposed mosque by the developers own words.  So the better question is why are you continually trying to claim its something its not? 


 

And I truly would like to know...why do you care about how little religious tolerance there is in other countries? 

Because there are far more Muslims in those countries than in the US.  So how the tens of millions of  Muslims in those countries view others religions outweighs the .5% of population of Muslims in the US and how they view things. 

[BigSky]

So much for peaceful and tolerant.



Iran Ayatollahs Issue Fatwas Against Koran-Burners

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-13/iran-ayatollahs-issue-fatwas-against-koran-burners.html


Indonesia: Muslims Call for Execution of Christians
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/indonesia-muslims-call-for-execution-of-christians.html

Pakistani Muslims Allegedly Poison Christian Employees to Death
http://www.compassdirect.org/english/country/pakistan/12585/

Nigerian Muslims Hack 500 Christian Villagers to Death With Machetes – Babies Scalped
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/nigerian-muslims-slaughter-500-christian-villagers-with-machetes-graphic-video/

[Stoday]

  I can tell you how the Catholic Kings, Ferdinand and Isabella, financed Christopher Columbus' journey to "India" in the hopes that treasure would be found to help pay for shipping all Muslims out of Spain. 

Now that just dosn't stack up. Looks like a lie to me and if that's a lie then the rest of Moosemum's "history" lesson is suspect too.

There was an active trade with India and countries further east in Columbus's time. So there was no need for "hopes" that treasure might be found. Nor the need to try a risky alternative route to the east by travelling west. The real reason was profit from trade. If Columbus found a shorter route, the Spanish could undercut the trade of other Europeans in the sale of spices and thus boost their profits.

We know the attitude of Europeans to Jews around that time: you only have to read Shakespere's play "The Merchant of Venice". But I'm sure that greed trumped racial abuse.

[MooseMom]

Now that just dosn't stack up. Looks like a lie to me and if that's a lie then the rest of Moosemum's "history" lesson is suspect too.

"It doesn't stack up." and "Looks like a lie to me." are bases for a logical argument?   It may "look" like a "lie" to you, but that doesn't mean that it is.  May I recommend a book to you..."Blood and Faith; The Purging of Muslim Spain" by Matthew Carr.  If you bother to read it, it may all just "stack up".

Yes, the Spanish were hoping to boost their profits, and on what do you think they might want to spend those profits?  Oh, I know!  The ethnic cleansing of Catholic Spain!  It wasn't just "racial abuse"; it was ethnic cleansing, and it got expensive.  All in the name of God, of the Holy Catholic Church.

Let me know when you've finished reading the book, and let me know what you think.  I'd really be interested in discovering what you learned.  I lived in Spain for a while and studied medieval Spanish history and literature, so I already knew about the conversos and themoriscos, but I had not fully appreciated the sheer scale of the expulsions.

[Stoday]

Can you explain why money was needed to expel the Muslims? According to that book they were expelled, for the most part to Africa, with only the goods they could carry.

[BigSky]

"It doesn't stack up." and "Looks like a lie to me." are bases for a logical argument?   It may "look" like a "lie" to you, but that doesn't mean that it is.  May I recommend a book to you..."Blood and Faith; The Purging of Muslim Spain" by Matthew Carr.  If you bother to read it, it may all just "stack up".

Yes, the Spanish were hoping to boost their profits, and on what do you think they might want to spend those profits?  Oh, I know!  The ethnic cleansing of Catholic Spain!  It wasn't just "racial abuse"; it was ethnic cleansing, and it got expensive.  All in the name of God, of the Holy Catholic Church.

Let me know when you've finished reading the book, and let me know what you think.  I'd really be interested in discovering what you learned.  I lived in Spain for a while and studied medieval Spanish history and literature, so I already knew about the conversos and themoriscos, but I had not fully appreciated the sheer scale of the expulsions.

LOL 

Come on now, tell the whole story.  Say starting in the year 711 with Tarik ibn Ziyad and ending with the Moors (who were Muslim fanatics) dominating Spain for several hundred years.