I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 30, 2014, 03:09:57 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
484147 Posts in 29878 Topics by 9397 Members
Latest Member: stan315nj
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  I Hate Dialysis Message Board
|-+  Dialysis Discussion
| |-+  Dialysis: F.A.Q. (Frequently Asked Questions) (Moderators: kitkatz, paris)
| | |-+  What is Vein Mapping?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: What is Vein Mapping?  (Read 17999 times)
peleroja
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1585


I have 16 hats, all the same style!

« on: January 19, 2010, 07:02:42 AM »

We just had a man join our renal support group and he wants to know what vein mapping is.  Since neither Debbie nor I ever had a fistula, we can't answer his question.  I just know someone on here will have an answer for me!
Logged
willowtreewren
Member for Life
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 6619


My two beautifull granddaughters

WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 07:10:53 AM »

You bet.

Vein mapping essentially is checking out the vein structure to see if creating a fistula is feasible.

I took this information from: http://www.aakp.org/aakp-library/The-AV-Fistula/


Quote
It is optimal for all patients who begin dialysis to have had adequate time to prepare. This preparation includes a physical examination and the ultrasonic mapping of veins and arteries prior to the procedure. Ideally, the patient can start dialysis on an outpatient basis without having to endure the temporary placement of a catheter, avoiding the potential complications outlined.

During the physical examination, the physician will first inspect the arms, and will assess veins with and without a tourniquet. An ultrasound machine characterizes the diameter of veins and arteries in several locations in the arm with the goal to find the best vessels for access creation. The goal is to find veins that are superficial and are widely open. Transposition or moving of a vessel may be needed if the vessels are too deep. The vessels must be long enough to support the fistula. Duplex sonography allows one to visualize the blood vessel anatomy and blood flow in the same image. The examination starts with the cephalic veins at the wrist and the radial artery at the wrist. It works up to the basilic and cephalic veins in the upper arm, along with the brachial artery. Using proximal vein compression with a blood pressure cuff inflated to 50 mm Hg for at least two minutes, the vein should dilate.

With deep inspiration the venous flow should increase, but if there is venous obstruction in the central veins, there will be no change in the venous blood flow measured in the arms. Venograms may also be necessary if the patient has had a central catheter placed. This is to exclude a central vein occlusion that might impede the flow of blood returning to the heart. An occlusion would increase the pressure in the veins and accelerate stenosis. It would jeopardize the dynamics of blood flow and interfere with the ability to dialyze.

The arteries are also evaluated, and the internal diameter of the radio artery must be at least 1.6 mm to 2.5 mm. The artery must increase in flow for an AV Fistula to be successful, and this is challenged by vascular disease, hypertension and diabetes. The arteries can be evaluated by having the patient clench the fist for two minutes then open it. This should double the flow and thus indicate the artery will respond normally when a fistula is created.

Properly mapped vessels enable surgeons to properly place the AV fistula, and can give the health team a better idea as to the prognosis of fistula survival. The successful creation of an AV fistula, already mature and ready to use prior to beginning dialysis, depends upon selecting the modality of therapy well into Stage 4, and following through with vessel mapping and the surgical procedure.

I hope this helps.

Aleta
Logged

Wife to Carl, who has PKD.
Mother to Meagan, who has PKD.
Partner for NxStage HD August 2008 - February 2011.
Carl transplanted with cadaveric kidney, February 3, 2011. :)
dwcrawford
Member for Life
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5315


Getting the heck out of town.

« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 07:23:04 AM »

Just scanning the arm to determine the best place to put a fistula.  Kind of fun.  Mine was done in the surgeons office.  My neph came down (just the next floor) and we all looked at it and made a decision.
Logged

Come to think of it, nothing is funny anymore.

Nothing that I post here is intended for fact but rather for exploration into my personal thought processes.  Any slight, use of words with multiple connotations or other percieved insults are totally unintended.  I reserve my insults for private.
billybags
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2189


« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 10:52:11 AM »

My husband went for vein mapping two weeks ago.. It is similar to a pregnant woman having a scan. The tec puts gel on your arms and runs a scan device up and down to see where the best veins are for a fistula. He has already had three failed fistula's due to very small veins in the last two years. Initially they have been getting him ready for dialysis two years ago. He has been on CAPD and emergency hemo for a year. He is now back on to CAPD and I think they are still trying to get him a fistula in position if the worst happens and he has to go back on to hemo.He is going to see the neph next week, may be he will have to have a graph.
Logged
Stoday
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1941


« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 11:17:24 AM »

During the pre-op discussion with my fistula surgeon, I asked about vein mapping. No, he would not be doing it because it wasn't necessary for me.

That suggests that the policy here is that you only get mapped if your veins look dodgy.
Logged

Diagnosed stage 3 CKD May 2003
AV fistula placed June 2009
Started hemo July 2010
Heart Attacks June 2005; October 2010; July 2011
kellyt
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3838


« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 11:37:24 AM »

I had vein mapping and he (Vascular Surgeon) still created my first fistula on a vein in my left wrist that was too small and never worked.   :banghead;  Went back and had the 2nd fistula placed in my upper left arm on a vein that was too deep.  He moved it a little closer to the surface during the fistula creating surgery, and although the fistula was strong and was developing nicely under the skin, it never bulged.  I'm happy about that now, but if I had to do dialysis and they couldn't hit it I would have been furious!   :Kit n Stik;

So my opinion is that vein mapping may not always help.   ???
Logged

1993 diagnosed with glomerulonephritis.
Oct 41, 2007 - Got fistula placed.
Feb 13, 2008 - Activated on "the list".
Nov 5, 2008 - Received living donor transplant from my sister-in-law, Etta.
Nov 5, 2011 - THREE YEARS POST TRANSPLANT!  :D
thegrammalady
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3775


« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 05:43:06 PM »

I had vein mapping and he (Vascular Surgeon) still created my first fistula on a vein in my left wrist that was too small and never worked.   :banghead;  Went back and had the 2nd fistula placed in my upper left arm on a vein that was too deep.  He moved it a little closer to the surface during the fistula creating surgery, and although the fistula was strong and was developing nicely under the skin, it never bulged.  I'm happy about that now, but if I had to do dialysis and they couldn't hit it I would have been furious!   :Kit n Stik;

So my opinion is that vein mapping may not always help.   ???
 

my fistula is in the upper arm and is strong and works just fine, and has never bulged, not everyones does.
Logged

s
......................................................................................
If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.

Lead me not into temptation, I can find it myself.

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning how to dance in the rain.

Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once.

Meddle Not In The Affairs Of Dragons
For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketchup
kellyt
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3838


« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2010, 06:39:13 AM »

 I had someone at a dialysis unit feel it and she swore that they would be able to hit it without problems, but it as mentioned to me by the surgeon if they couldn't hit it he would have to go back in and move it closer still to the surface.  It was maddening because my scar is so ridiculously big and ugly.  He didn't do a good job with the scar at all!  Luckily, I never had to use it at all, and now that the fistula is "dead" I'm super glad it never bulged.
Logged

1993 diagnosed with glomerulonephritis.
Oct 41, 2007 - Got fistula placed.
Feb 13, 2008 - Activated on "the list".
Nov 5, 2008 - Received living donor transplant from my sister-in-law, Etta.
Nov 5, 2011 - THREE YEARS POST TRANSPLANT!  :D
peleroja
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1585


I have 16 hats, all the same style!

« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2010, 09:29:01 AM »

Thanks, everyone, for all your answers.  I've forwarded the info.  I always feel good when a family member gets involved in their parent's or sibling's treatment.  Good to have a support team!
Logged
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
 

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.5 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Enotify by CreateAForum.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!