If donating a kidney is so easy....

[Rerun]

If donating a kidney is so easy then why don't we see more people "who know" how hard dialysis is on people donate.  Why aren't the following people walking around with one kidney?

Vascular Surgeons
Nephrologists
Dialysis Nurses
Dailysis Techs

It should be a requirement!

How in good conscience can they not donate one kidney to save someone.  I couldn't live with myself. 

                                                     

[peleroja]

Excellent question, Rerun.  I know that some religions prohibit donation of body parts (orthodox Jews, Muslims), but I suspect there are a lot of healthy kidneys out there.  There are a few techies on this list.  How about it, techies, have you been tested to donate a kidney?

[Hanify]

I don't think it's easy to donate a kidney.  I think the operation itself is not that big a deal, but the mental process is.  You might need that other kidney one day, or one of your children might, or you might just not be that happy not knowing where the kidney goes.

[monrein]

How many of us were tested to donate a kidney or a piece of liver when we were younger and healthier?  I also don't think it's easy to donate and that's exactly what makes it such a huge gift when someone does do it.  Donating after death however ought to be very very easy it seems to me.

[dwcrawford]

To me it sounds quite rude to insist or shame people who don't choose to give.  It should be a choice and, if you like praise the people who choose, but don't condemn those who don't.  Your nephs, techs, and other dialysis people are contributing in the way they choose.  You could see with one eye.  I wonder if they could implant the other one into a blind person. 

[Rerun]

I guess I'm rude then.

                   

[dwcrawford]

but requireing someone to donate , wouldn't it be like going to the phillipines and gathering up a bunch of young kids, zonking them and ripping out the kidnesy.....  and if it was required, wouldn't you have more trouble finding qualified people to service us...?  Just a thought!

[Rerun]

Mine was just a thought too.  This isn't asking you to sign a congressional petition. 

It was just a thought I had this morning that I don't see how my nephrologist who has worked for 25 years in this business and hasn't come across a child who just needed a kidney to live a normal life and he could give her or him that.  Then the next child that came along he could do nothing about but at least he could help one. 

It may not be an easy operation, but look at the wonders. 

I'm just in a philosophical place right now.

[dwcrawford]

nothing wrong with thinking about it...  but I think the gesture would be less meaningful if it were required.  I recentlly had two young people offer to test for me and I said absolutely no... you are young and who know what will happen to your kidneys in the next 30 years or so.  Sorry I said rude.  I should have found a better word.   And why did you Moon me with the "smiley".

[Rerun]

I mooned you with the smiley because that is rude.

It shouldn't be a requirement.  But, I'm just thinking..... how can you work with sick people when all they need is a kidney to give them back a normal life.

What if cancer patients only needed someone else to cut off a finger and they would be cured.  Let's take that example.  I know I'd be missing at least 2 fingers.

[Hanify]

Oooh - that's an interesting point Rerun.  I honestly think I would give a kidney before one of my fingers!  I'd happily give a toe though.  But I play the guitar and my fingers - nope, I don't think I could do it. 

[dwcrawford]

but it would have been your choice to give your finger.  Lots of people give me fingers all the time.

[cariad]

My gp in California used to joke about giving me a kidney, saying things like "I'd give you one of mine, but you wouldn't want my old, crappy kidney". I found it a little strange, but tried to interpret it as just trying to cheer me up.

Obviously, it would be a huge boundary issue to give a kidney to a patient. I am glad for the professional distance, personally. I already feel like this field of medicine judges every facet of my life, I don't need to feel like I am in a brutal popularity contest.

I don't suppose anyone used to read that transplant psychiatrist forum on the Internet? It used to be open for viewing to the public, though only transplant mental health professionals could become members and write to it. Unfortunately, they have closed it for reading by non-members. Transplant psychiatrists (and the occassional social worker) used to discuss difficult cases.

One psychiatrist wrote that she was concerned about a transplant coordinator who found out that the child of a family friend needed a kidney. The coordinator used to work at the children's hospital, where the child would presumably have the transplant, but had since transferred to an adult hospital. The psychiatrist wanted opinions on if it would be crossing an ethical boundary for the coordinator to donate to this child. The other psychiatrists all said no, because the coordinator knew the child outside of her job and she no longer worked at the children's hospital. They all agreed that those two points were crucial for the sake of all the patients at the hospital. They also agreed that the field does tend to attract people who naturally want to help. Maybe more of these individuals are donors than you might guess?

[tamara]

but it would have been your choice to give your finger.  Lots of people give me fingers all the time.

laughed so much at this 

yes i have had many people donate things at me, kidneys and plenty of fingers !!!

[Wallyz]

I think Rerun discusses a valuable point. Often, we as patitents assume our doctors really care about us and our health.  Since they have sucha low donation rate, its obvious that they don't care as much as we'd like them too. We need to be aware that our doctors are not nearly as invested in our health as we are, and we need to act accordingly.

[Rerun]

I think Rerun discusses a valuable point. Often, we as patitents assume our doctors really care about us and our health.  Since they have sucha low donation rate, its obvious that they don't care as much as we'd like them too. We need to be aware that our doctors are not nearly as invested in our health as we are, and we need to act accordingly.

Exactly!  And even though they don't care about me how about the children they see struggling.  Although most children pull at the heart strings of family members.

None of my family have gone to be tested.  Although I say I don't want them to.  And they are weenies about pain just like me. 

I've just been reading all these articles about donation lately and it just hit me how easy it would be to get everyone who is eligible OFF the list.

[Hanify]

I'm struggling to discuss this thread without sounding angry.  So I'll apologise in advance if I do.  I cannot disagree more with you both.  How on earth could a specialist or nurse ever decide who they should give one to?  Isn't it enough that some of them are dedicating their lives to renal patients?  If you have some kind of expectation that they should donate, you would lose an awful lot of staff in an area that is already difficult to get staff for.  Renal is hardly the sexy end of medicine is it?  Think back to when you were healthy - and ask yourself why you didn't donate then.  It's not like we all didn't know there was a need!

[Wallyz]

I offered to donate, and was turned down because I was diabetic.  My sister offered to my Dad, me, and now to a friend of hers.  People who care deeply about you will offer.  I have talked to my doctor about it, and he admits that he doesn't want to because of the risks.  He cares, just not as much as we want him to.

[Hanify]

You have an amazing family.  I have lots of family members too who are happy to donate if it's ever possible, but I really don't expect my doctor/nurses to.  I want them to to care about my care - but I don't expect them to care deeply for me in that sense. 

[greco02]

I once heard a suggestion that I think has some merit.   Instead of signing up to be a donor you only sign up if you DON'T want to be a donor.  I don't know how you would be able to pull it off but think about the possibilities....

[cariad]

Instead of signing up to be a donor you only sign up if you DON'T want to be a donor

Greco, that's the opt-out policy, it has its detractors, but I am not one of them. Last I heard, they do this in Spain and it is very successful (only around 2% of people opt out). Britain has been discussing it off and on for years. For some reason, this country is fixated on creating a cash market for organs. I rarely hear opt-out mentioned by any policymakers, but I don't follow developments that closely. I think opt-out is far preferable to selling organs.

Wallyz, when you discussed donation with your doctor, were you asking him to donate specifically to you, or just asking him in general why he doesn't donate to someone? (Just wondering, if you are not comfortable answering, please forget I asked.)

[petey]

I was going to try to stay out of this discussion, but I just can't.

I've often wondered, too, why many people don't choose to be living donors -- doctors, nurses, techs, teachers, preachers, insurance salesmen, lawyers, bankers, and even Indian chiefs.

When Marvin went on dialysis and needed a transplant, there was no question in my mind but that I needed to be tested.  When I was finally (FINALLY) okay'ed to be his donor, there was no question in my mind that that was the thing for me to do.  I would have donated to my brother, my friend, the lady down the street, or RichardMel.  The recipient wasn't important (though I was glad I was able to do this for my husband), the act of donation was.

Before Marvin's saga with ESRD began, I didn't KNOW you could be a living donor -- I thought you had to be dead (and I had already made my wishes about that known to my family and put on my driver's license).

We are all different and have different views on what we should, could, and would do.  I don't shame those who choose not to be a living donor; I just don't understand why they wouldn't.  But, then again, many of them probably don't understand why I was a living donor.  To each his own.  But I still think about it a lot.

[KT0930]

If my doctor or nurse or tech or whoever donated to a patient, I wouldn't want to know about it. Sure, it's great if you're the recipient of that, but I'm one of those who constantly questions other people's motives when their actions affect me.

I can just see it, my neph comes into the exam room and tells me he's going to be out of the office for two weeks because he's donating a kidney to one of his other patients. Well, why that other patient and not me? I thought we got along; I thought he liked me; I thought he wanted me to have a transplant. I'd drive myself to distraction wondering about all that and more. Then probably, I'd have to switch docs because I would end up resenting my current one.

I know this is my issue, not the doc's, but as someone pointed out early in this thread, it puts us as patients in a disgusting popularity contest which I want no part of.

[okarol]

On the tv show Nurse Jackie - she asks the doctor "What do you doctors have against healing people, for Christ's sake?" Elenor doesn't skip a beat: "Yeah, see that, that right there: healing, helping, fixing. Fantastic. That's why you're a nurse. When I was a little girl, I took a butter knife and opened up a dead bunny to see how it worked. That's why I'm a doctor ."

[dwcrawford]

As usual, some people come to conclusiions as what others are saying without reading their posts totally.  It is generally the same people who know everything and need to sum it up for us.  My original comment on this thread was in opposition to the word "required" -- should it be a requirment of nurses, techs and doctors.  Still, with respect for most of the follow ups and even Reruns original premise, I resent the implication that anyone should be required to donate anything (other than a finger), while at the same time, admiring and respecting those who do.  Others have giving in more detail and more clearly the resons why this premise is wrong.  Mine is must a gut feeting.