Obama = Downfall of America

[M3Riddler]

Obama = socialism, more taxes, government telling you what you can and cannot do.
Universal Healthcare = death of private insurance = more people needing governments universal healthcare = less specialized Dr's = Waiting for appointments/treatments/procedures = more taxes to pay for something the government doesnt have money for now.

They need to fix the current medicare program and save 20-30 billion per year instead of creating something else.
Anything the government gets their hands on, they seem to ruin. Just look at what is happening now.

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[Bill Peckham]

Why haven't you introduced yourself?

[BigSky]

All Obama is about is power for him and his leftist friends.


His most recent in saying the coop that ousted Manuel Zelaya in Honduras was illegal bolsters that point. Clearly obama not knowing what he is talking about.

Zelaya was a leftest individual that tried to violate the Honduras Constitution and change it to keep power for himself.  This was despite the fact that the Honduras Constitution limits terms to one and forbids that clause from being changed.

Obama talks about democracy and Honduras.  The coop was the highest form of democracy shown when a president tries to become a dictator the government stepped forth and removed him!

[Bill Peckham]

All Obama is about is power for him and his leftist friends.


His most recent in saying the coop that ousted Manuel Zelaya in Honduras was illegal bolsters that point. Clearly obama not knowing what he is talking about.

Zelaya was a leftest individual that tried to violate the Honduras Constitution and change it to keep power for himself.  This was despite the fact that the Honduras Constitution limits terms to one and forbids that clause from being changed.

Obama talks about democracy and Honduras.  The coop was the highest form of democracy shown when a president tries to become a dictator the government stepped forth and removed him!

I had no idea you were a Honduran constitutional hobbyist. What do you make of the coup's move yesterday to strip the Honduran people of five constitutional rights? Gone are:

1. The right to protest.

2. Freedom in one's home from unwarranted search, seizure and arrest.

3. Freedom of association.

4. Guarantees of rights of due process while under arrest.

5. Freedom of transit in the country.

So we shouldn't worry about that? You're saying the true threat was from the former president's push for a VOTE on a nonbinding resolution.

Sheesh. Give me a break.

[BigSky]

 

So what far left site did you pull  that from?  Huffington?.... Democrat Underground? 

   They are pissed that one of their own got tossed from office.

You seem to ignore that even members of his own party were upset with his actions of trying to take the country toward "Chavismo".  The model of Socialism that the nutjob Hugo Chavez of Venezuela is advocating.

In fact it is Roberto Micheletti who is the interim president picked to rule by the majority of their Congress and he is from the same party and was in fact an ally of the former president until he tried to take the country down that path.

Even Reuters states that Micheletti is seen as a stabilizing influence.


But back to those rights

The decree only applies at night doenst it?


So in fact its not all that different to the US when State of Emergencys are declared or even the times when Martial Law has been declared now is it!

[paul.karen]

When an American president agrees with The likes of Chavez and the Castro brothers and sees things there way one has to give pause and wonder.

It seems or looks like Obama is sticking up for a man who wants total control and the ability to govern forever like Ahminijad is doing , while he didnt say much when a true democracy was trying to be brought forth in Iran by the YOUNG people who dont have the sever hate for Americans as the current administration does.

[Bill Peckham]

When an American president agrees with The likes of Chavez and the Castro brothers and sees things there way one has to give pause and wonder.

It seems or looks like Obama is sticking up for a man who wants total control and the ability to govern forever like Ahminijad is doing , while he didnt say much when a true democracy was trying to be brought forth in Iran by the YOUNG people who dont have the sever hate for Americans as the current administration does.

Since the 192-nation General Assembly voted by acclamation to condemn the coup it is accurate to say in this case America Venezuela and Cuba (and every other nation in the world) agree. Wouldn't it be cause for pause and wonder if the US disagreed with Australia, Canada, the UK ... ?

Central and South America have a long history of coups which is why no one can be in favor of their return. Having a vote on a nonbinding resolution is anti-democratic, while a military coup is to be celebrated as the height of democracy. That doesn't make any sense.

Every constitution has provisions for amendments, democracies can democratically rewrite their constitution. I can see why the Honduran oligarchs were against change that would disadvantage them; it's harder to see why the American political right has decided to be pro coup.

[Bill Peckham]

So what far left site did you pull  that from?  Huffington?.... Democrat Underground? 

I've been reading The Field by Al Giordano on the Narco News site http://narconews.com/

He helpfully embeds local video in his posts Day Three: Democracy Held Hostage in Honduras  I thought the coup directed violence was only suppose to happen at hight?

[paul.karen]

Speaking for myself im not pro Coup by any means.

But it is better then the alternative IMO.
He isnt asking for a vote to extend his reign he is or was trying to make it law without a vote.  To be a dictator like Chavez or Castro to rule with disregard to what the democratic people wanted. More or less a takeover.
If the people dint stand up who will?? The majority Vast majority didn't want him to have these powers.  This is democracy at is best.  Or do you think they should have just laid back and became a controlled country.  Where the president can take over banks, declare himself owner of large car companies and make legislation and laws that none will read.

[Bill Peckham]

Speaking for myself im not pro Coup by any means.

But it is better then the alternative IMO.
He isnt asking for a vote to extend his reign he is or was trying to make it law without a vote.  To be a dictator like Chavez or Castro to rule with disregard to what the democratic people wanted. More or less a takeover.
If the people dint stand up who will?? The majority Vast majority didn't want him to have these powers.  This is democracy at is best.  Or do you think they should have just laid back and became a controlled country.  Where the president can take over banks, declare himself owner of large car companies and make legislation and laws that none will read.

How about some links to back your assertions?
Weird how the coup supporters are a bunch of people from the oligarch class - they are a small minority in Honduras but they are a majority among the Honduran diaspora (at least the diaspora that read blogs and leave comments)

[BigSky]

Weird how the coup supporters are a bunch of people from the oligarch class - they are a small minority in Honduras but they are a majority among the Honduran diaspora (at least the diaspora that read blogs and leave comments)

Oligarchy class. 
 

Hmm except his own party isnt even supporting him, the Military, nor the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court of Honduras gave the order to the military to detain Zelaya.  Later the Congress removed him from power and named the Congressional Leader to power.

So despite the false claims by some, including obama,  this  "coup" was indeed democratic.

It was Zelaya who was trying to violate the Constitution and the checks and balances of the country acted accordingly.

The fact of the matter was the Supreme Court of Honduras ruled that what Zelaya wanted to do was illegal because it flouted the Honduras  Constitution's own ban on such referendums within six months of elections.  No means no.

Just as  our military does, the Honduras military evidently swears an oath to uphold the Constitution.

The military upheld the Constitution when they refused to distribute ballots as Zelaya wanted done in his quest to violate the Constitution.  Zelaya then fired the Chief of the Army because he did his job of upholding the Constitution.

Zelaya continued on his quest to try to retain power.

Thereby the system acted just as it is suppose to act when one tries to subvert the Constitution. The domestic enemy was removed from office by the government.

[Bill Peckham]

I've presented links here is another one Why Zelaya's Actions Were Legal

Where are your links or are you suppose to be an expert on Honduran constitutional law?

[BigSky]

I've presented links here is another one Why Zelaya's Actions Were Legal

Where are your links or are you suppose to be an expert on Honduran constitutional law?

Posting a worthless link doesnt change the fact that its a worthless link.


No need to be an expert at all bill.

What part of the Supreme Court's ruling that the vote Zelaya wanted was ILLEGAL do you not grasp?

Are you trying to tell us that you know more than the Supreme Court of Honduras on such an issue? 
What judicial evidence or authority do you have that allows you to overrule and dismiss that high Court?

[fluffy]

cute neocon propaganda there.

[kitkatz]

I bet he thinks this!

[Aubrey]

How is it that the people who disagreed with Bush were un-patriotic, but the the people who want Obama (and presumably the country) to fail are Good Old Boys?

[paul.karen]

Who said they want Obama to fail? Or the country.


But i get your point it is a democratic double standard at its very best.
There are many photos of Bush dressed like Hitler and even of bush hanging from a noose.  These were made by democrats and displayed proudly at most all events Bush went to.  The dems were very proud of there handywork.

Sadly they whine like little babies and cry foul, racist, hate mongers, fakes ect ect when it is aimed at there party.  And worse yet it isnt even barley being aimed at obama yet they still scream foul.

My only take on this is that either dems are just truly that stupid.
Have short memories or are just two faced sissies.

Please note i have many democratic friends, and there are many MANY dems who dont act like this.  I am referring to the extremists who just like name calling and say we can do it but you cant.

[Aubrey]

At the time when he was pumping money into the banks, there were a few of those shock jocks who said they wanted him to fail, which would presumably have meant the banks and the country would fail.

[paul.karen]

Oh yes i think Rush Limbaugh.
He is but a big windbag.  he is way on the right and says alot of things for ratings i assume.
There are jocks like that as well as TV personalities who like to go over the top and they are on both political sides.
Then again some politicians say things that are over the top and that is a different story.  Nancy Pelozi comes to mind.  Saying Americans who dont agree with Obamas plan are unamerican-fake-manufactured ect ect.  This coming from the third highest powered person in the country.

I dont agree with obama on MANY issues.  Cap and trade-bailouts for people who bought homes they couldn't afford-Tarp-cash for clunkers-healtcare.
All these things we will be paying for for many decades to come.  Our children's children will be paying of these crazy spending spree bills.
But i dont want him to fail  Nor our country.
These are strictly my points of view.

[glitter]

At the time when he was pumping money into the banks, there were a few of those shock jocks who said they wanted him to fail, which would presumably have meant the banks and the country would fail.

the problem is the word-'presumably'- just like the word 'assume'

they NEVER said they wanted the country to fail, they disagreed with Obamas policies, which they believe are not good for the country, and they hope they fail, which they clarified over and over again.

I think there are too many people on both sides of this fence using bits and bytes to make a point, when things are looked at in the context from which they were said a very different picture emerges, and that goes for both Rep. and Dems.

[dwcrawford]

i kind of think the title of this thread is a hyperbole... or whatever you call it... help me English teachers.

[Bill Peckham]

i kind of think the title of this thread is a hyperbole... or whatever you can it... help me English teachers.

Unfortunately DW I think it represents the point of view of some not small number of Americans.

There is no doubt that people ascribed devious motives to the previous administration, questioned the previous administration's wisdom. But I don't remember the sense of menace that you see now. Were people suggesting that the tree of liberty needed some watering during the Iraq war protests, the immigration debate or the social security effort?

Right now people are being equated to Nazis if they are in favor of a public health plan - if you really believe this is Germany 1933 then what are these people thinking is their patriotic duty?

We have a long way to go as far as problems to be addressed. After healthcare comes entitlements. Next year you'd expect more serious economic reforms proposed both domestic and internationally. From the point of view of people who don't want anything to change and are generally suspicious of non Americans (and Americans who don't share their politics) and non American institutions e.g. UN, IMF, it's going to keep getting worse.

Throw in any acts of nature - pandemic, earthquake, hurricane - and people are going to be yelling about the Administration's actions, no matter what. Then if you look at the electoral politics of 2010 - retirements, trends, early polling - it is structurally going to be a tough year for Republicans.

With every good economic indicator the Democrat's agenda and electoral prospects strengthen, while the Republican's grow weaker. Electorally the Republicans must have the Obama economic plan fail, that's not the same as wanting the country to fail. The Republicans can tell themselves that it would be worth the short term pain if economic collapse brought them back into power but I don't think this face of the Republican party is sitting well with the American public.

[BigSky]

Right now people are being equated to Nazis if they are in favor of a public health plan - if you really believe this is Germany 1933 then what are these people thinking is their patriotic duty?

At least that is not as bad as this Administration calling Americans terrorists because they were returning soldiers from war, Believed in the Constitution and its rights afforded the people and the States or pushed for immigration law to be enforced.

[Bill Peckham]

Right now people are being equated to Nazis if they are in favor of a public health plan - if you really believe this is Germany 1933 then what are these people thinking is their patriotic duty?

At least that is not as bad as this Administration calling Americans terrorists because they were returning soldiers from war, Believed in the Constitution and its rights afforded the people and the States or pushed for immigration law to be enforced.

Really? The Department of Homeland Security report? You're saying that DHS report is worse than the language being used in opposition to health insurance reform?

That report is looking prescient.

[BigSky]

Really? The Department of Homeland Security report? You're saying that DHS report is worse than the language being used in opposition to health insurance reform?

That report is looking prescient.

Ohh I have no doubt you feel that way.  I know it must scare the hell out of you that the American People are standing up and using their Constitutional Rights on this issue.