I Hate Dialysis Message Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 22, 2024, 02:16:22 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
532606 Posts in 33561 Topics by 12678 Members
Latest Member: astrobridge
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  I Hate Dialysis Message Board
|-+  Dialysis Discussion
| |-+  Dialysis: Centers
| | |-+  Reuse
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Reuse  (Read 16355 times)
Zach
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4820


"Still crazy after all these years."

« on: August 28, 2006, 09:45:36 PM »

Now that all Fresenius dialysis centers no longer reuse their dialyzers, I was wondering if reuse is on the decline at other centers.

I know at my center, they stopped reuse about four years ago.


And thank God for that!!      :D



EDITED: Topic moved to proper section "Dialysis: Centers" - Epoman, Admin/Owner
« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 09:56:01 PM by Epoman » Logged

Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
kitkatz
Member for Life
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 17042


« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2006, 09:47:48 PM »

I drive my center crazy as they have to get me Fresenius nonreuse dialyzers.  I am allergic to renalyn and some of the fibers in the dialyzers.  I cannot do reuse. It makes me ill.
Logged



lifenotonthelist.com

Ivanova: "Old Egyptian blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk." Babylon 5

Remember your present situation is not your final destination.

Take it one day, one hour, one minute, one second at a time.

"If we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna lose it. Lose it... It means go crazy, nuts, insane, bonzo, no longer in possession of ones faculties, three fries short of a Happy Meal, wacko!" Jack O'Neill - SG-1
Epoman
Administrator/Owner
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3368


Want to help out? Become a Premium Member today

WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 09:54:40 PM »

I know before I left Davita, they reused the dialyzers. I'm sure they still do to.  ::) "But, but it's better for you" Yeah right take your "When we reuse the dialyzors it helps stop manufacturing particles from entering in your bloodstream" bullshit and reuse that. >:( It has always been known that using a new "kidney" with each treatment is better. But Money talks and bullshit walks.  ::)

Glad when I read a while ago that Fresnius was going to "single use" it made me respect that company a WHOLE lot more than Dav-allaboutthebottondollar-ita

Now the question is did Fresenius do it for patients well being or because they figured it would be cheaper in the long run with out needing a reuse team, reuse machines, chemicals, etc, etc.
Logged

- Epoman
Owner/Administrator
13+ Years In-Center Hemo-Dialysis. (NO Transplant)
Current NxStage & PureFlow User.

Please help us advertise, post our link to other dialysis message boards. You
Hawkeye
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1356


« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2006, 07:05:49 AM »

Now the question is did Fresenius do it for patients well being or because they figured it would be cheaper in the long run with out needing a reuse team, reuse machines, chemicals, etc, etc.

The answer is a little of column A, and a little of column B.  Improving the health and out come of the patient treatments has always been something that Fresenius says it strives to improve.  Single use dialyzers definitely fit that bill, but just the manufacturing process of the dials is cheaper let alone all the added headaches involved with the reuse process.  Fresenius still manufactures the reuse machines, but sells them to the competitors who wish to use them.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 10:11:55 AM by Hawkeye » Logged

It's not easy being green.
John S.
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 30

« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2006, 09:18:08 AM »

Zach, when I was at a hospital clinic, we reused for about the 8 years I was there. Now we moved to a free standing independent clinic and we no longer reuse.
john >:D
Logged
Joe Paul
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4841


« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2006, 09:39:15 AM »

Some at my clinic still re-use their dialyzers, I do not.
Logged

"The history of discovery is completed by those who don't follow rules"
Angels are with us, but don't take GOD for granted
Transplant Jan. 8, 2010
BigSky
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2380


« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2006, 03:47:27 PM »

I am on resuse.

Never had a problem. 


After switching from new filters every session to reuse my kt/v actually jumped.
In fact the problems I had with new filters have been eliminated. 

They use our filters for 20 times max before a new one.  It is up entirely to each patient if they want to reuse or not..  Some use new some reuse.  Each patient is given the choice to make on their own.  At anytime the patient can either start to use reuse filters or stop the use and go back to new.

At one time there were some problems but most of that is gone now.  The last thing I read on it showed there was no increase in morbidity or mortality among dialysis patients who used reuse compared to new.

Logged
Zach
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4820


"Still crazy after all these years."

« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2006, 09:42:28 PM »

I think we may all need to come out to Big Sky Country!

Sounds like they have their priorities right.    ;)
Logged

Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
Sara
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1557


« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 05:30:56 AM »

Joe's center reuses and he doesn't get a choice about it.
Logged

Sara, wife to Joe (he's the one on dialysis)

Hemodialysis in-center since Jan '06
Transplant list since Sept '06
Joe died July 18, 2007
angieskidney
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3472

« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2006, 12:28:54 AM »

I don't think any centers in Canada reuse (someone else would have to verify that) but I know in my city there is no reuse at either dialysis center.
Logged

FREE Donor List for all Kidney Patients!

diagnosed ESRD 1982
PD 2/90 - 4/90, 5/02 - 6/05
Transplant 4/11/90
Hemo 7/05-present (Inclinic Fres. 2008k 3x/wk MWF)
Rerun
Member for Life
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 12242


Going through life tied to a chair!

« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2006, 11:19:34 PM »

I reuse.  OMG isn't everything about recycle, recycle, recycle!?? If it is cheaper then I will do it.  It may shave off $5 from the $3,000 per session. 

The line they told me 20 years ago was that when a filter is reused the holes get bigger and more toxins get out. 

OH NO.....spell check is gone!
Logged

Hawkeye
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1356


« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2006, 06:32:10 AM »

The line they told me 20 years ago was that when a filter is reused the holes get bigger and more toxins get out.

Close but definitely not right.  Yes the holes in the fiber get bigger, but but that means your blood is being cleaned less efficiently.  You might lose more toxins, but you are also losing other things that wouldn't normally be able to pass through.  It would be like saying everytime you wash pantyhose you get more holes in them so that makes them look better because you can see more of your leg.  Maybe a better example would be ringing out fresh cheese with cheese cloth.  When you squeeze it down really tight the water comes out through the cloth, but the cheese remains inside because the fibers are to small.  Put a few holes in it or makes those fibers further apart, and you will be losing some of that cheese too.
Logged

It's not easy being green.
Zach
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4820


"Still crazy after all these years."

« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2006, 10:01:06 AM »

Here's more information about reuse from the American Association of Kidney Patients (AAKP)


http://198.104.149.102/aakp-library/Reuse-Hemodialyzers/index.cfm
Logged

Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
kevno
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 743


« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2006, 09:22:35 AM »

Since I have been back on Heamo the unit have never reused a dialyzers/kidney. Went back on for a rest from CAPD in 97. Been back on heamo 3 x 4 hours a week since 2000. In the 70's we reused the dialyzer/kidney but they were 6 feet long and 2 feet wide ;D  Plus you had to use a socket set to put the dialyzer together. I could do it nearly blindfolded at the age of 11years  8)
Logged

But this little saying keeps me going!!

"RENAL PATIENTS NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!"
angieskidney
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3472

« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2006, 05:18:44 AM »

Since I have been back on Heamo the unit have never reused a dialyzers/kidney. Went back on for a rest from CAPD in 97. Been back on heamo 3 x 4 hours a week since 2000. In the 70's we reused the dialyzer/kidney but they were 6 feet long and 2 feet wide ;D  Plus you had to use a socket set to put the dialyzer together. I could do it nearly blindfolded at the age of 11years  8)
Wow! How times have changed!!

Unless you are on blood thinners there should be no problem, but you will still bleed some if you get one.  On of the most important things you want to watch out for is that your tattoo parlor of choice uses new needles for each person.  You do not want a place that just autoclaves there needles.  They claim it "cleans" them, but there is too much room for human error for my liking.  Gross comparison, but that's like someone saying I just scrubbed the toilet you can drink out of it if you like.  It could never be "cleaned" enough for me.
Wouldn't flushing a reusable kidney pose the same risks?

Yes I agree completely.  There is too much room for human error in the "cleaning" process of dialyzers.  Reuse dialyzers should be tagged with the patients name so the same dial goes to that same patient for the life of that dial, so getting someone else's dial shouldn't be an issue.  Things do happen though, and most people won't own up to a mistake they just try to cover it up to save their butts.  When the dials are reused they use a very harsh and high level disinfectant to clean them.  The chemicals are so bad a gas mask has to be worn by the reuse tech so they can breath.  I believe this process to be better than just spinning or autoclaving all the blood out, but I would never allow a reuse dial to be used on me.

Ya I agree! I am just glad that my unit does not use the reuse system.
Logged

FREE Donor List for all Kidney Patients!

diagnosed ESRD 1982
PD 2/90 - 4/90, 5/02 - 6/05
Transplant 4/11/90
Hemo 7/05-present (Inclinic Fres. 2008k 3x/wk MWF)
AlasdairUK
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 316


« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2006, 05:54:02 AM »

My centre does not reuse. I'm glad that they don't. I would be worried about getting somebody else's. I just need to look through my folder and I see other peoples notes filed away in mine. It would be just too easy to make a mistake and the consequences would be great.

Logged

94 - PD for 3 months
94 - HD Permcath for 3 months
95 - RLD Transplant 10 years
2005 - HD Permcath 6 months
2006 - 2008 HDF Fistula
2008 - 2nd Transplant
angieskidney
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3472

« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2006, 07:39:47 AM »

My centre does not reuse. I'm glad that they don't. I would be worried about getting somebody else's. I just need to look through my folder and I see other peoples notes filed away in mine. It would be just too easy to make a mistake and the consequences would be great.


Wow! I remember when I was on PD I could see the notes in my file but now I don't have access to them now that I am on HD :(

I hope they don't screw up any of my files :(
Logged

FREE Donor List for all Kidney Patients!

diagnosed ESRD 1982
PD 2/90 - 4/90, 5/02 - 6/05
Transplant 4/11/90
Hemo 7/05-present (Inclinic Fres. 2008k 3x/wk MWF)
livecam
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1182


World's Best Beach..Lanikai..Oahu, Hawaii

« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2006, 11:35:56 AM »

When I was on dialysis my unit practiced reuse but patients had the option of opting out.  Reuse was strongly encouraged by the unit and patients who wanted a new dialyzer for each treatment were frowned on.  I went with the flow for a period of time but eventually demanded no reuse after a blood leak happened in a dialyzer that had been used 21 times.  I lost alot of blood and as a result my HGB nosedived.  Anyone familiar with this knows that it can take weeks to bring HGB back up to where it was before a blood loss event.  I always had concerns anyway about sanitation and risk of disease either from the dialyzer or the compounds used to clean it.  My records were always accessible.  They sat in a large notebook on top of the machine and could be examined at any time. 
Logged
angieskidney
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3472

« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2006, 11:37:39 AM »

My records were always accessible.  They sat in a large notebook on top of the machine and could be examined at any time. 
In my unit if it is not in the computer it just doesn't exsist.
Logged

FREE Donor List for all Kidney Patients!

diagnosed ESRD 1982
PD 2/90 - 4/90, 5/02 - 6/05
Transplant 4/11/90
Hemo 7/05-present (Inclinic Fres. 2008k 3x/wk MWF)
kitkatz
Member for Life
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 17042


« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2006, 06:47:00 PM »

My body opted out of reuse for me.  I have an allergy to either renalyn or the fibers in certain types of dialyzers.  I get real sick from it all. No more resue after they tried killing me off in 2004 by changing my dialyzer on me.
Logged



lifenotonthelist.com

Ivanova: "Old Egyptian blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk." Babylon 5

Remember your present situation is not your final destination.

Take it one day, one hour, one minute, one second at a time.

"If we don't find a way out of this soon, I'm gonna lose it. Lose it... It means go crazy, nuts, insane, bonzo, no longer in possession of ones faculties, three fries short of a Happy Meal, wacko!" Jack O'Neill - SG-1
Hawkeye
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1356


« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2006, 06:27:19 AM »

My body opted out of reuse for me.  I have an allergy to either renalyn or the fibers in certain types of dialyzers.  I get real sick from it all. No more reuse after they tried killing me off in 2004 by changing my dialyzer on me.

If they don't rinse that cleaning agent out properly that can get you VERY sick, and though rare there are patients who have an allergic reaction to the fibers of dialyzers.  Fresenius just switched over to a new way of sterilizing their dials at the manufacturing plant because it was found that some people were having reactions to the old method.
Logged

It's not easy being green.
Zach
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4820


"Still crazy after all these years."

« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2006, 09:06:49 AM »

Fresenius just switched over to a new way of sterilizing their dials at the manufacturing plant because it was found that some people were having reactions to the old method.

Is that gamma instead of EO?
Logged

Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
Hawkeye
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1356


« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2006, 12:45:17 PM »

Is that gamma instead of EO?

No, it's not gamma and I'm not sure what EO is.  It used to be a chemical sterilization process.  Now they are using an electron beam sterilization process on their dialyzers.
Logged

It's not easy being green.
Zach
Elite Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4820


"Still crazy after all these years."

« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2006, 08:41:03 PM »

Is that gamma instead of EO?

No, it's not gamma and I'm not sure what EO is.  It used to be a chemical sterilization process.  Now they are using an electron beam sterilization process on their dialyzers.

Sorry, I meant EtO= Ethylene oxide.


Electron beam sterilization (e-beam sterilization) is a commercially successful technology for sterilizing a variety of disposable medical devices with a wide range of densities.

The e-beam inactivates microorganisms either by causing microbial death as a direct effect of the destruction of a vital molecule or by an indirect chemical reaction. This is the same mechanism as in gamma irradiation, and the dose required is the same.

http://www.ebeamservices.com/steriliz.htm

As with any sterilant in a dialyzer, it needs to be flushed thoroughly (not just recirculated) with an entire bag of saline  (1,000 cc).
« Last Edit: September 22, 2006, 04:54:47 AM by Zach » Logged

Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
Bajanne
Member for Life
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5337


Goofynina and Epoman - Gone But Not Forgotten

WWW
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2006, 11:22:48 PM »

They don't reuse here in the BVI, but I am told that in my country, Barbados, at the General Hospital, they reuse.  In fact, one of my nurses here did a week course some years back in my country where they taught how to reuse.  I am not looking forward to having to reuse when I finally return to my country.  When I go now, I get dialysis at a private clinic where they don't reuse, but I will not be able to afford that when I finally relocate.  Hope they give me a choice, but don't expect that they do.  I will claim to be allergic to that ren.... thing.
Logged

"To be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own ...but that which is based on faith"



I LOVE  my IHD family! :grouphug;
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
 

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.17 | SMF © 2019, Simple Machines | Terms and Policies Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!