Questions... How clean does your house need to be when you get home?

[kidney4traci]

Just some questions I have ... How clean does your house need to be when you get home?  And when can you go out places?  Are dogs ok to be in bed with you?  Thanks!

[RichardMEL]

I believe you have to be mostly concerned with food hygene so being obsessively clean in the kitchen and making sure food is properly cleaned and cooked properly to reduce bacteria and to always be personally clean - so washing your hands a LOT and being careful in terms of touching things/people and then washing before you touch your face/eyes - and it's amazing that we often do stuff like that without even thinking about it so it could be an issue to train yourself to think a little differently.

My understanding is that for the first 3months or so this is when it is most critical and as meds come down and stabalise you can afford to go out more, mix with more people and generally be a bit more normal.. but I am sure the transplant team will go through all of that after the op because it's so important.

As for dogs and beds.. I am not sure but I have asked my neph about my cat and he said it was OK to have her in the house but to maybe get someone else to clean up her litter tray or if not use gloves, clean extra hard etc (I have got some disposable gloves already and am going to start using those to get myself into the habit of that). As for kitty on the bed.. I too wonder about that. She loves my (ok her) bed but I am mentally preparing to boot her out.. at least initially because she loves to come and lick my hand or whatever and well... gosh if she does that in the middle of the night then I unconsciously rub that hand to my face... kitty germs galore!!! So it is a concern though I have not specifically talked to anyone about it but I think she will have to sleep on the couch initially..... (and yes I don't like that idea much and neither does she but well... it's for a better good). It definitely will be a big question I will have if/when that transplant arrives for me...

I will be interested in other responses to this question from those who have been there and done that

[boxman55]

I am a kitchen freak so that needs to be clean. I hate dishes in the sink. The rest of the house can be "lived in" except the bathroom also needs to be tidy. As far as dogs in bed bring um on the best feet warmers around, but when they try and hog the pillows well thats a differant story...Boxman

[kellyt]

I have one dog that likes to get in the bed, so I just check his feet and make sure they are clean.  He's not allowed to "lick" anything, even himself on our bed!  yuk!

Keep dirty dishes out of the sink.  I use the dishwasher more these days for extra clean and sanitized dishes.  Actually, I bought sturdy paperplates and we use them mostly.  That helps!

I clean out the fridge at least once a week to rid it of left overs.  My food paperwork basically states 2-3 days tops for leftovers.

If your dietician doesn't give you good info on food storage and such let me know and I'll send you copies of mine.  They are good.

[monrein]

I'm truly shocked that I'm alive after my last transplant.  I don't remember following too many restrictions at all.  Besides washing my hands and getting a flu shot.  I guess I was really really lucky.  I'll be more careful this time around if it all comes to pass.

[okarol]

Jenna's surgeon released Jenna 3 days post op because he said there are 1000 less germs in your home compared to the hospital. You can use Lysol wipes in the kitchen and bathroom but your house is probably just fine. So don't worry too much. The main thing is avoiding colds and flu, not eating from buffets or take out food left in the fridge too long. Avoid eating cookie dough due to the raw egg.

We avoided crowds and having kids over for the first 90 days. Jenna wore face masks they gave her for her first 2 weeks when going to the transplant clinic for labs and follow up, because there are a lot of other people around that may be sick. She used to hand sanitizer a lot too. At about 8 days after her transplant we went to a movie, in the evening, during the week - so the theater was practically empty. The doctor said it would be fine as long as Jenna wore a mask. It was great because she really needed something fun to do.

We gave our cockatiel to my mom because the doctor said no birds. But our cats stayed in the house, however, none slept on her bed. Here's a couple threads to read: Immuno suppressant drugs and pet care http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=3502.0 and Do you really have to get rid of pets after a transplant? http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=558.0.

[Meinuk]

Ok, so keep in mind that I live alone in a very small one bedroom apartment in NYC.  So cleaning is easy when it is just 4 rooms.  And I don't have any pets, so I can't answer about your dog.

The morning I left for transplant this was what I cleaned:  (I am normally pretty tidy so this all took less that half an hour)

Clean Sheets on bed

I bundled all of my dirty laundry to drop off at the Korean cleaners at the bottom of my street.

Did all dishes in sink and swiffered the kitchen floor

Threw out all leftovers in fridge and froze what I knew could be frozen.

I gave the bathroom (sink, bath, toilet and floor) a once over with bleach and water, cleaned sink and taps

Took out all garbage from house.

I took a hot, anti bacterial shower and then dressed in clean clothing that was also to be my "going home" outfit.  (slip on shoes)

I watered my plants and put some purell on the shelf by the door to remind me to use it every time I leave and enter the apartment.



Seven days later, I came home to a clean apartment, with fresh sheets on the bed, and very few things spoiled in the fridge, and my clean laundry was waiting for me to pick it up.

Minus the bathroom cleaning and  the shower, this is pretty much what I do every time I go away on a trip.  It is a joy to come home to a clean house and clean sheets.

My theory is, that my apartment on the whole has just my bacteria in it.  I didn't go nuts scrubbing every surface, I just did a general wipedown - using bleach in the bathroom, and commercial cleaner in the kitchen.

Now that I am just finishing my Immunosurpressive "house arrest" my apartment is spotless (all I could do for the first 2 weeks was clean and watch TV or read - I was soooo bored)

My first week, I just went out to the clinic, the mailbox, the bodega and the laundry.

My second week, was clinic, grocery store, post office

My third week, All of the above and I had a manicure/pedicure (very clean salon), an overnight for Thanksgiving, and the next day I went to my office for a few hours.

And my fourth week,  I have been to all of the above and I got waxed, got my stent out on the upper west side, went out to dinner at a restaurant, had a glass of sangria, and had some friends over for pizza.

On my fifth week, I will be doing all of the above and going to my office part time.

[RichardMEL]

you rock!!

[Chris]

I wasn't told anything, but then again with cadaver transplants, you never know when you get the call. When I got home, dishes where in the sink which I hate. I wash the dishes once to get everything off then use the dishwashers heavy duty cycle. I hate dirty kitchen's, but have no control over parents.

Since yours is planned,use Clorox type wipes on the door handles and clean up the house. Sweep before going in too. Like others, my center mentioned about pets also. However I did have birds around a few years (dad bred canaries) later post transplant and didn't have a problem even with the one I raised from hatching in my room.

My transplant center gave me 2 3 prong binders of information on what to watch out for, things to do, and things to avoid, mask to weaar ( not the type you get at the drug store either, these were a more more restrictive to airborn pathogens). Except I didn't get anything like Kelly regarding food storage.

You'll be fine

[kellyt]

I'm truly shocked that I'm alive after my last transplant.  I don't remember following too many restrictions at all.  Besides washing my hands and getting a flu shot.  I guess I was really really lucky.  I'll be more careful this time around if it all comes to pass.

Good point!  Keep lotion around because my hands are so dry due to all the washing and Purell and such.  The skin on my knuckles were cracking my first week home!   ouch!

Hand washing is a key eliment!!!!

[MIbarra]

Yes, handwashing is important. My dogs and cat at the time still sat in my lap and slept with me. I just made sure I had purell close or washed my hands after petting them. I haven't been sick once since the transplant 19 months ago. All I keep getting are UTI's due to the stent that was left in too long. I think you're good if you watch hygeine and watch out with food.

[Chris]

Never used Purell and probably will never use it. However I do wash my hands, but not always with the anti bacterial since some kind of bacteria is good according to news reports that have been circulating on the air over the years.

Maybe it's me, but the use of Purell would spread the bacteria to another part of the hand or area without fulling killingit. Thus washing your hands with soap for 20 seconds and rinsing off washes the germs away. Isn't Purell made with alcohol? Thus the cause of drying out your skin.

Just my 

[kellyt]

There is an automatic Purell machine outside every room at the transplant hospital, as well as one by the door leaving the clinic.  If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.  I also wash with soap and water, but the Purell is a good "go to" if you are in your vehicle or out and about doing errands.  I'm definitely not saying "only use Purell".  That would be foolish.

When washing my hands in the sink I do use an antibacterial liquid soap.  However, I do not use antibacterial soap in my shower/tub.

[willieandwinnie]

Can you guys say, what an ass to me. When Len had he's transplant, I came home and scrubbed our house from top to bottom. I bleached both bathrooms so bad I had to open every window so I wouldn't kill myself. The kitchen even got the oven cleaned (what was up with that, I have no idea). I stayed up until 3 one morning, shampooing all the carpets. I might have gone overboard just a little. Mask and hand sanitizer was everywhere. I still use a bunch of hand sanitizer.

[RichardMEL]

I think it's way better to go overboard than not. You may have done a lot of stuff you probably didn't need to do but I am sure for your own peace of mind  that would have been worth the effort... rather than not doing something and wondering.....

I wonder if I can train my cat to help with that?

yeah, right....

[kellyt]

Oh Willie, I did alot of that weeks before my transplant.  I don't find what you did silly in the least!!!  I was cleaning stuff like baseboards, ceiling fans, etc.  They needed to be done anyway and it had little to do with sanitizing the house, but rather knowing when I came home that at least it would be "new" dust and grime.      I did a thorough clean-out of my fridge and pantry getting rid of everything that was either expired or close to being expired.  I did a good cleaning of the hall bathroom and then closed it up and my husband didn't use it the whole time I was in the hospital.  That way I had at least one clean bathroom upon my return.  Since being home I haven't done as much cleaning other than the dishes, the counters in the kitchen and the floors.  But, hey, that's really stuff that should be done regulary! 

I do watch the food in the fridge.  I'm more afraid of getting sick from bad food than anything else.  I made choc chip cookies today and it was sooooo hard not to eat the dough.  I love cookie dough!!!!  But I didn't!!!   

[MIbarra]

I made choc chip cookies today and it was sooooo hard not to eat the dough. 

I feel your pain! 

[kidney4traci]

I knew I could count on lots of good advice! Meinuk thanks for your list, that is helpful too.  I wondered how long to wait to go around others and work too.  We have our own business, it will be hard to stay away.  It helps to think I could go in to do some work when pts are not there. 

I am not a big fan of purell either, I wonder if there is a healthier alternative for cleaning hands when soap and water are not available. 

[pelagia]

Can you guys say, what an ass to me. When Len had he's transplant, I came home and scrubbed our house from top to bottom. I bleached both bathrooms so bad I had to open every window so I wouldn't kill myself. The kitchen even got the oven cleaned (what was up with that, I have no idea). I stayed up until 3 one morning, shampooing all the carpets. I might have gone overboard just a little. Mask and hand sanitizer was everywhere. I still use a bunch of hand sanitizer.

This is me too!  A complete fanatic.  But, get this.  I forgot to clean some of the food out of the fridge before we left for Stephen's transplant.   When we came home a week later I put an open carton of soymilk in the sink while I was wiping down the frig shelf.  Then I went to the grocery store to buy more soymilk and some other things we needed.  I forgot about the soymilk container, which I left in the sink.  When I got home the soymilk container was in the trash empty.  I said to Stephen "You didn't need to clean that out." and he said, "I drank it."  "YOU DRANK IT?!?!"  "YOU DRANK IT?!?!" "OMG"  I calmly replied...   All I could recall at that moment was the PA at the hospital giving him an instruction to never again sniff milk to check for spoiling...  It's almost seven months later and he is still forgetting the rules.

[Python]

Can you guys say, what an ass to me. When Len had he's transplant, I came home and scrubbed our house from top to bottom. I bleached both bathrooms so bad I had to open every window so I wouldn't kill myself. The kitchen even got the oven cleaned (what was up with that, I have no idea). I stayed up until 3 one morning, shampooing all the carpets. I might have gone overboard just a little. Mask and hand sanitizer was everywhere. I still use a bunch of hand sanitizer.

This is me too!  A complete fanatic.  But, get this.  I forgot to clean some of the food out of the fridge before we left for Stephen's transplant.   When we came home a week later I put an open carton of soymilk in the sink while I was wiping down the frig shelf.  Then I went to the grocery store to buy more soymilk and some other things we needed.  I forgot about the soymilk container, which I left in the sink.  When I got home the soymilk container was in the trash empty.  I said to Stephen "You didn't need to clean that out." and he said, "I drank it."  "YOU DRANK IT?!?!"  "YOU DRANK IT?!?!" "OMG"  I calmly replied...   All I could recall at that moment was the PA at the hospital giving him an instruction to never again sniff milk to check for spoiling...  It's almost seven months later and he is still forgetting the rules.

And I bet he's absolutely fine.

Most of us live normally and many of us have pets.  In our case, loads of them.  12 cats (plus the neighbour's cat who's decided to adopt us - she doesn't look after him and he's a gorgeous ginger and white cat), 3 of the cats belong to Ian and have shared his bed since they were kittens.  They're indoor cats though.  18 snakes ranging from Boas to a Milksnake, two of which belong to Ian and our lovely German Shepherd Dog.

People forget we're surrounded by germs, some good, some bad but our bodies get used to these.  Part and parcel of living.  We use a dishwasher, always on the get-everything-clean setting, not because of anything to do with kidney problems but because I hate washing dishes.

We don't use antibacterial soap as it tends to be too drying and if you read some of the ingredients that are in most mosturisers, you'd flip right out!  We have a chain of shops in the UK called LUSH.  They also have a website.  Just google Lush and you can order from their website.

They make their soaps, shampoos, hair conditioners, shower and bath products out of natural ingredients and lots of essential oils.  They also do henna for colouring your hair.  It smells gorgeous.  Chemical dyes choke the life out of you and wreck your hair.  Lush's henna leaves your hair really shiny, smelling wonderful and the colour is excellent. 

For showering my favourite is Skinny Dip.   I have eczema but since I started using this two years ago, I haven't had a flare-up.

Hubby's favourite is one called "Sexy Peel" which is made with fresh lemons and has the zest through it.  It really wakens you up in the morning and leaves a lingering lemon scent in the bathroom.   Mmmmm.

Ian's favourite soap is a minty one.  Can't remember what it's called but he loves it.  You can buy as much as you like too from 100g upwards.  There's no wastage with it either.  When you get down to the last little bit, get a new chunk, wet them both and the two will stick together plus there's no plastic packaging so it's better for the environment too.

I usually have several different types of soap in the bathroom and kitchen so there's plenty of choice for everyone.

One thing I hate - and I mean HATE, is people who are too lazy to wash their hands after going to the bathroom.  Yuk!

Food, you have to be careful with at any time.  If in doubt, throw it out.  We make most of our own food including bread, cakes and biscuits (cookies).  I know what goes into them and where my hands have been.  When cooking, I'm always washing my hands.  Seafood is something everyone should be careful about.  Many years ago I had a baked potato take-away meal that had prawns in it.  My Mum had one too.  She took one mouthful of prawns and spat them out warning me not to eat my one.  Too late, I'd already swallowed just one teaspoon of them.  I ended up with fish poisoning and I can assure anyone reading this, it is NOT fun.  Since then I've always been very careful with seafood.  I believe one of the things transplantees are not supposed to eat is seafood (shellfish).  Thankfully, Ian, although he likes fish, doesn't like shellfish and hates prawns.

Other than just being sensible, I'd say carry on with a normal life as soon as possible.  After all, that's what getting a transplant's all about - leading a normal life.

[pelagia]

Yes, he's fine.  I have come to the conclusion that the transplant clinics over-emphasize the risks from everyday germs while under-empahsizing the potential for complications such as skin cancer and cmv post-transplant.  Perhaps it's because the transplant recipient can't do much about the latter once they have decided to have a transplant.

Stephen is a performer - he travels around the country, stays with friends and has contact with a ton of folks.  It's almost 3 months since he went back to work and he is healthy as can be nearly 7 months after his transplant.  Still there is that fear of the unknown when you first get home and get adjusted to the new existence.  Confidence grows everyday and when we are looking back at the first winter with no serious illnesses I will breath a sigh of relief.

Also, a comment about "anti-bacterial" soaps.  Most contain triclosan which is bad for the environment and has little effect on your health.  See for example this article from Parade magazine, which also emphasizes the cleaning power of good old soap:

"With cold and flu season here, one of the best measures to prevent the transmission of viruses and bacteria is simple hand-washing. Many soaps and detergents tout their antibacterial properties. But scientists say that such soaps may contribute to the development of bacterial drug resistance.

Environmental concerns have been raised as well. High levels of triclosan and triclocarban—two common compounds found in soaps and detergent—can accumulate in our ecosystem. Triclosan can be transformed into a toxin called dioxin, a known carcinogen.

Meanwhile, there’s little evidence that germ-killing products actually reduce your chances of getting sick. For one thing, they have no effect on viruses, which cause many illnesses, including flu and the common cold.

Several studies have concluded that, for healthy people, washing hands with plain old soap and water is just as good as antibacterial products, if not better. Scrub for at least 20 seconds. The power of soap comes from its suds and lather, which allow soap molecules to form a thin film around dirt and then be washed away under running water. Down the drain go both bacteria and viruses."

http://www.parade.com/health/2008/11/stay-healthy-wash-away-germs.html

 

[Chris]

pelagia,
That's pretty much the information I was thinking about.

As to the comment about people not washing their hands after using the washroom, I agree, that is just nasty! I hope no one I know does that, if so tell me and I won't be coming over for dinner.

[lola]

With 3 kids and a dog our house is good and full of germs. Otto's docs told us to not go overboard with the cleaning, in fact we got Chinese one night with one of the docs, I think some centers are WAY to crazy on germs.

[kellyt]

My surgeon and tranplant nephrologist have both told me to just "be smart" when I leave the house and such, but not to be a prisoner in my home.  So I go out when I want or have to, but I just stay clear of people in case they are sick and I don't touch a lot of pointless stuff.  I use a sanitize cloth on the grocery basket handle and wash my hands when I get home.  That's about it.

I went to church this morning with two friends:  one is the donor and the other is the wife of the recipient who is scheduled for transplant on Friday.  His surgery was already cx once due to a sinus infection.  Anyway, they were wearing masks at church.  I told her I was NOT going to wear a mask.  However, when it was time for communion they both took off their masks and went up for communion.  When they were done neither one put their masks back on.  We even went to lunch after service and they didn't wear their masks.  I thought that was funny.  The wife is going to go overboard, but that's okay.  Whatever gets them through the surgery and the night.  I love them both!  I pray his transplant and recovery goes as smoothly as mine did!  He deserves it! 

[kidney4traci]

Was he wearing a mask before the surgery?  What, so he wouldn't get sick again?