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Author Topic: Is Quitting Dialysis Suicide  (Read 112144 times)
dwcrawford
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« Reply #225 on: August 12, 2009, 06:15:05 AM »
Is obesity a sin?  Should women be allowed to drive?  Is the person who invesnted the cell phone going straight to hell? 

Understand what I'm sayiing.  Point of view.
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Come to think of it, nothing is funny anymore.

Nothing that I post here is intended for fact but rather for exploration into my personal thought processes.  Any slight, use of words with multiple connotations or other percieved insults are totally unintended.  I reserve my insults for private.
Zach
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« Reply #226 on: August 12, 2009, 06:16:41 AM »
Quote from: dwcrawford on August 12, 2009, 06:15:05 AM
Is obesity a sin?  Should women be allowed to drive?  Is the person who invesnted the cell phone going straight to hell? 

Understand what I'm sayiing.  Point of view.

No. Yes. And YES, straight to hell!   >:D
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Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
dwcrawford
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Getting the heck out of town.
« Reply #227 on: August 12, 2009, 06:23:01 AM »
good think I'm scheduled for dialysis.  I feel like stirring up more ship.
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Come to think of it, nothing is funny anymore.

Nothing that I post here is intended for fact but rather for exploration into my personal thought processes.  Any slight, use of words with multiple connotations or other percieved insults are totally unintended.  I reserve my insults for private.
Des
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« Reply #228 on: August 12, 2009, 07:52:27 AM »
I think it is suicide..... cause you know you are going to die when you stop D.
Just the same as you know when you jump from a building you are going to die.
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Please note: I am no expert. Advise given is not medical advise but from my own experience or research. Or just a feeling...

South Africa
PKD
Jan 2010 Nephrectomy (left kidney)
Jan 2010 Fistula
Started April 2010 Hemo Dialysis(hate every second of it)
Nov 2012 Placed on disalibity (loving it)
Zach
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"Still crazy after all these years."
« Reply #229 on: August 12, 2009, 08:50:06 AM »
Quote from: dwcrawford on August 12, 2009, 06:23:01 AM
good think I'm scheduled for dialysis.  I feel like stirring up more ship.

Good think, indeed!   :o
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Uninterrupted in-center (self-care) hemodialysis since 1982 -- 34 YEARS on March 3, 2016 !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No transplant.  Not yet, anyway.  Only decided to be listed on 11/9/06. Inactive at the moment.  ;)
I make films.

Just the facts: 70.0 kgs. (about 154 lbs.)
Treatment: Tue-Thur-Sat   5.5 hours, 2x/wk, 6 hours, 1x/wk
Dialysate flow (Qd)=600;  Blood pump speed(Qb)=315
Fresenius Optiflux-180 filter--without reuse
Fresenius 2008T dialysis machine
My KDOQI Nutrition (+/ -):  2,450 Calories, 84 grams Protein/day.

"Living a life, not an apology."
paris
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« Reply #230 on: August 12, 2009, 09:25:31 AM »
I am sure I have answered this before, but I  compare it to any life prolonging treatments. If a cancer patient does not want chemo or radiation,but knows they will die without it, we don't consider that suicide.  Decades ago, if one had kidney failure they wouldn't know. When they died, they died of natural causes.  Today is no different, except we can choose dialysis or transplant, if we so desire.  But, if a person chooses neither of these treatments, I don't see how that can be considered suicide. Your organs are failing and eventually that means an earlier death.   I want all the time I can get, so I will try any type of treatments.   :thumbup;

Dan and Zach, you both seem to be in good form today   :2thumbsup;   :rofl;
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okarol
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« Reply #231 on: August 12, 2009, 09:58:49 AM »
Quote from: Zach on August 12, 2009, 08:50:06 AM
Quote from: dwcrawford on August 12, 2009, 06:23:01 AM
good think I'm scheduled for dialysis.  I feel like stirring up more ship.

Good think, indeed!   :o

Yes, our ships don't need stirring!
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
Brightsky69
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« Reply #232 on: August 12, 2009, 10:17:51 AM »
I don't think it's suicide at all... it's just a form of life support. And if you were very ill and your quality of life was bad. You should be able to stop it.
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Transplant June 11, 1991 (1st time) my mom's kidney
Received my 2nd kidney transplant Oct. 19th 2010.
paris
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« Reply #233 on: August 12, 2009, 12:16:23 PM »
Quote from: okarol on August 12, 2009, 09:58:49 AM
Quote from: Zach on August 12, 2009, 08:50:06 AM
Quote from: dwcrawford on August 12, 2009, 06:23:01 AM
good think I'm scheduled for dialysis.  I feel like stirring up more ship.

Good think, indeed!   :o

Yes, our ships don't need stirring!

It is too hot for ship stirring today   :rofl;
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It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived.
monrein
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« Reply #234 on: August 12, 2009, 12:18:44 PM »
I'm keeping the ship tied to the dock today just so it's safe from stirring. 
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Pyelonephritis (began at 8 mos old)
Home haemo 1980-1985 (self-cannulated with 15 gauge sharps)
Cadaveric transplant 1985
New upper-arm fistula April 2008
Uldall-Cook catheter inserted May 2008
Haemo-dialysis, self care unit June 2008
(2 1/2 hours X 5 weekly)
Self-cannulated, 15 gauge blunts, buttonholes.
Living donor transplant (sister-in law Kathy) Feb. 2009
First failed kidney transplant removed Apr.  2009
Second trx doing great so far...all lab values in normal ranges
nursewratchet
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« Reply #235 on: September 04, 2009, 10:12:27 AM »
Quote from: Des on August 12, 2009, 07:52:27 AM
I think it is suicide..... cause you know you are going to die when you stop D.
Just the same as you know when you jump from a building you are going to die.

We will all die of something.  SOme kidney failure, some heart failure, etc,etc... If someone is 100, the body is shutting down, if the body can't do what it is meant to do, you will die from it.  Period.  That's the death.  Not stopping dialysis. 
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Vicki
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« Reply #236 on: September 04, 2009, 04:02:36 PM »
Well, my husband says it is not, but my pastor says it is. I hope I never have to make the choice.
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One day at a time, thats all I can do.
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« Reply #237 on: September 04, 2009, 04:07:06 PM »
My pastor says it is not.  We are extending life with dialysis.
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pelagia
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« Reply #238 on: September 04, 2009, 05:33:49 PM »
Is eating fried butter suicide?  :rofl;
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As for me, I'll borrow this thought: "Having never experienced kidney disease, I had no idea how crucial kidney function is to the rest of the body." - KD
willowtreewren
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« Reply #239 on: September 04, 2009, 05:40:07 PM »
Quote
Is eating fried butter suicide?  :rofl;

I laughed so hard I almost wet my pants!  :clap; :clap; :clap;
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Wife to Carl, who has PKD.
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paris
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« Reply #240 on: September 04, 2009, 05:51:45 PM »
Quote from: willowtreewren on September 04, 2009, 05:40:07 PM
Quote
Is eating fried butter suicide?  :rofl;

I laughed so hard I almost wet my pants!  :clap; :clap; :clap;

Me too!!   :rofl;   :rofl;   :rofl;
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okarol
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« Reply #241 on: September 04, 2009, 05:53:56 PM »
Quote from: paris on September 04, 2009, 05:51:45 PM
Quote from: willowtreewren on September 04, 2009, 05:40:07 PM
Quote
Is eating fried butter suicide?  :rofl;

I laughed so hard I almost wet my pants!  :clap; :clap; :clap;

Me too!!   :rofl;   :rofl;   :rofl;

I was thinking about smoking or over eating - but you're right - who is beating their chest about fried butter balls??
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
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« Reply #242 on: September 04, 2009, 07:12:00 PM »
Quote from: pelagia on September 04, 2009, 05:33:49 PM
Is eating fried butter suicide?  :rofl;

That's one horrible way to go!

Death on the toilet while your pants are down!

That and you better stock up on paper products!
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Diabetes -  age 7

Neuropathy in legs age 10

Eye impairments and blindness in one eye began in 95, major one during visit to the Indy 500 race of that year
   -glaucoma and surgery for that
     -cataract surgery twice on same eye (2000 - 2002). another one growing in good eye
     - vitrectomy in good eye post tx November 2003, totally blind for 4 months due to complications with meds and infection

Diagnosed with ESRD June 29, 1999
1st Dialysis - July 4, 1999
Last Dialysis - December 2, 2000

Kidney and Pancreas Transplant - December 3, 2000

Cataract Surgery on good eye - June 24, 2009
Knee Surgery 2010
2011/2012 in process of getting a guide dog
Guide Dog Training begins July 2, 2012 in NY
Guide Dog by end of July 2012
Next eye surgery late 2012 or 2013 if I feel like it
Home with Guide dog - July 27, 2012
Knee Surgery #2 - Oct 15, 2012
Eye Surgery - Nov 2012
Lifes Adventures -  Priceless

No two day's are the same, are they?
sutphendriver
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« Reply #243 on: September 05, 2009, 07:19:14 AM »
good question.....If I choose to take a pill, knowing my life will end because of it...suicide?
                         If I choose not to take a pill, knowing my life will end because of it...sucide?

IMO...yes, any action, or inaction, initiated by you when you know the end result is death is suicide.  If I choose not to brake at the bottom of a hill, knowing I am going to slam into the rock face....is that just gravity taking its course?

I am loving the justification given in some of these threads....I would have never thought considered giving up as "nature taking its course"  Very interesting
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RichardMEL
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« Reply #244 on: September 05, 2009, 07:30:37 AM »
I am really not certain. I had a nurse tell me a few years ago that according to the hospital Dialysis is considered essential and a form of "life support" (this was when there was talk of a nurses strike, but they declared D would always be staffed because of that). Going by that definition(and I see no reason to dispute it, because obviously without dialysis we WILL die) then choosing to stop treatment is a form of suicide. However I am a staunch supporter or euthinasia and our choice to live life as we see fit for ourselves.

I also think the context of the choice is important. For example if I was say 90 years old, had lost my legs, had X Y Z other problems and was in pain, than it would be a decision based on quality of life. However that same decision (to me, anyway) would be different for me in my situation - apart from ESRD I am fairly healthy, I am relatively young and fit and my prospects for a successful transplant are better than 50/50. I think in that situation where the possibility for a better quality of life exists then if I decided to quit dialysis that WOULD be an act of suicide.
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3/1993: Diagnosed with Kidney Failure (FSGS)
25/7/2006: Started hemo 3x/week 5 hour sessions :(
27/11/2010: Cadaveric kidney transplant from my wonderful donor!!! "Danny" currently settling in and working better every day!!! :)

BE POSITIVE * BE INFORMED * BE PROACTIVE * BE IN CONTROL * LIVE LIFE!
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« Reply #245 on: September 05, 2009, 02:15:06 PM »
At the end of the day i dont think stopping dialysis is suicide , i look at dialysis as finding another option to live. If we wanted to commit suicide would we choose to do dialysis in the first place ?  Then of course by not choosing dialysis we wouldnt be commiting suicide but dying of natural causes.
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OH NO!!! I have Furniture Disease as well ! My chest has dropped into my drawers !
Goofy
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« Reply #246 on: September 05, 2009, 11:02:00 PM »
Our bodies can't go on forever and I feel being on dialysis is a form of life support.  Just as being on a ventilator is a form of life support.  If I choose not to do dialysis, I don't consider it suicide, I consider it a natural form of death. Would you leave someone on a ventilator for years just to keep them alive? 

My definition of suicide is to "take" my own life intentionally.  Stopping dialysis is intentional but without the machine you'd die anyway.  But if I took a gun to my head or an overdose, I, me, personally would feel like I'm "killing myself". 

If there weren't dialysis, you wouldn't consider dieing from ESRD suicide, right?  It just so happens we live in a time that it is available for us but it is an "unnatural" way to live. 

I believe when our bodies stop working on their own and you're put on life support, there comes a time when people have to face the fact we are all going to die and "taking someone off a machine" isn't suicide.  Its a natural process when the body stops working.

I guess every one has "their" own definition of quality of life.  For me, when I can't take care of myself, I'd rather be dead.  I even have in my DNR that if there is no hope for me and I can't eat or drink on my own, I don't want any food or water given to me by unnatural means.  I feel that would be letting nature take its course.  I do a lot of hospice volunteer work and its sad to see people in nursing homes just lying there on machines just waiting to die.  You are just prolonging the inviable.
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okarol
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« Reply #247 on: September 05, 2009, 11:45:01 PM »

In countries where they deny dialysis for the poor or the elderly, are they committing murder?  :waiting;
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Admin for IHateDialysis 2008 - 2014, retired.
Jenna is our daughter, bad bladder damaged her kidneys.
Was on in-center hemodialysis 2003-2007.
7 yr transplant lost due to rejection.
She did PD Sept. 2013 - July 2017
Found a swap living donor using social media, friends, family.
New kidney in a paired donation swap July 26, 2017.
Her story ---> https://www.facebook.com/WantedKidneyDonor
Please watch her video: http://youtu.be/D9ZuVJ_s80Y
Living Donors Rock! http://www.livingdonorsonline.org -
News video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7KvgQDWpU
Ang
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« Reply #248 on: September 05, 2009, 11:48:12 PM »
Quote from: okarol on September 05, 2009, 11:45:01 PM

In countries where they deny dialysis for the poor or the elderly, are they committing murder?  :waiting;

YES  BU  STEALTH :stressed;
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live  life  to  the  full  and you won't  die  wondering
Des
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« Reply #249 on: September 06, 2009, 02:48:13 AM »
Quote from: okarol on September 05, 2009, 11:45:01 PM

In countries where they deny dialysis for the poor or the elderly, are they committing murder?  :waiting;

YES YES YES and YES :stressed;
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Please note: I am no expert. Advise given is not medical advise but from my own experience or research. Or just a feeling...

South Africa
PKD
Jan 2010 Nephrectomy (left kidney)
Jan 2010 Fistula
Started April 2010 Hemo Dialysis(hate every second of it)
Nov 2012 Placed on disalibity (loving it)
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