Is Quitting Dialysis Suicide

[Romona]

A family member chose to stop chemotheraphy. She suffered from diabetes and stomach cancer. I feel that she did not commit suicide by stopping treatment. She may have lived longer continuing treatment, but she felt her quality of life was poor.

[kimcanada]

my opinion is ... no , stopping dialysis is not suicide

[mikey07840]

  I have to say no, it is not suicide

[Romona]

  Wish I knew what to say Mike.

[Bill Peckham]

I think the distinction is allowing something to kill you, verses killing yourself.

It isn't suicide.

[okarol]

Is smoking suicide?

[Bill Peckham]

Is walking out your front door?

[okarol]

MY front door? No. 

[stauffenberg]

Everyone knows that sitting on the tracks while the subway car races toward you is not committing suicide, but just letting something else kill you.

[LightLizard]

to argue about such an obvious topic is proof that people have way too much time on their hands.
if you do anything that you KNOW will kill you, by definition, that is suicide. who cares if the law says its illegal? everyone knows that the law is generally stupid. and smoking is not suicide. plenty of people do it for years and it doesn't kill them, so that is no guarantee that you will die. another stupid comparison.
that's like saying 'living is suicide'.

[monrein]

However, if an insurance company will pay out on a life insurance claim then it's an important "stupid" discussion.  Some things aren't always as obvious as they may seem.

[LightLizard]

this is one of those topics that really has no single answer that will serve everyone, obviously.
personally, i don't believe that suicide is a 'sin,' so i have no problem with someone ending their life in whatever way they choose, as long as they don't take anyone who wants to keep living with them.
but i do believe that if you choose to end your life, and you follow through with that choice, regardless of the circumstances and method, it IS 'suicide.'  if i believed in an afterlife, i would probably be happy to leave this plane, but i don't, so i won't....yet....
 

[Sunny]

I think it's more about what your loved one's would think should you choose to quit dialysis and die.
Would they view your choice as suicide? How would it effect them? For example, if you are 75 years old and
chose not to have dialysis anymore, your loved one's might understand that. But if you are 45 years old and
chose the same thing, loved one's would probably have a different perspective. You cannot ignore the fact
cessation of dialysis will effect your loved ones. Who knows, maybe they'd be happy you were gone, but I doubt it.

[LightLizard]

good point, sunny. my oxford dictionary defines a suicide as 'someone that intentionally kills themselves.'
we've all probably considered it at one time or another. but as you said, for me, its not an option at this point, mainly because of the effect it would have on my loved ones.

[LightLizard]

here's what i wrote on this very topic a week or so ago...


To Be, or Not.....

Over the past few years, having been afflicted with renal failure and needing dialysis to stay alive, I have had numerous occasions to ponder the value of my life, as it is now.

One of the many inconveniences of my condition is that it can be very difficult to get a good night's sleep. From time to time I find myself staring into the blackness of the night and thinking about my limited options.

The intermittent leg cramps, constant itching, physical weakness and fatigue, the loss of sexual desire and social interaction, as well as the inability to continue my life as a musician and tai chi instructor, the need for a multitude of medications, the side-effects of those medications and the very process of dialysis itself, having to be hooked up to a machine for ten hours every night.....

Sometimes, I can't help but wonder if its worth the trouble. Sometimes I think it would be better to just stop dialysis and go to sleep for good. It would take about two weeks for me to die, they say. After a week of no dialysis, the toxins would build up in my system and I would likely slip into a coma, which would last about a week, until all of my organs shut down and my ordeal would be over.

These types of thoughts often crawl through my mind in my hours of insomnia.
Then, the morning sun begins to brighten the sky and illuminate my room.

I hear the sounds of robins, greeting the new morning. I think of the loved ones that have stood by me in this battle of survival. My wife, my daughters, my cat. Yes, my cat. She often comes to lay with me when my pains force moans from my lips at night.

These are the treasures that keep me going. That give me reason and purpose and the desire to go on. Life can be hard and painful. But love makes it all good and right.

Love to you all...


~LL~

[stauffenberg]

While it would be criminally selfish of someone to insist that another person continue living a life he hated just to keep the other person happy, or to preserve the other person from misery in reaction to the unhappy person's death, a person contemplating suicide may still want voluntarily to consider its effect on other people close to him.  Generally, though, if the person hates his own life to the point of preferring to die, his continued existence will not be much of a pleasure to those close to him.

[LightLizard]

regardless of our situation in life, we are as happy or as unhappy as we choose to be.
loving and being loved can make one very happy indeed. and that is the point of life, if there is one; to be happy. you can be happy with yourself, your accomplishments, your achievements, but without others to share your happiness with, it can be bleak.

[Sunny]

Sometimes what keeps us going is the love of others.

[flip]

I really don't care whether it is or not. My life isn't bad and I certainly don't want to quit dialysis. If I wanted to commit suicide, I could find much easier and less painless ways to do it. I'd rather spend my time enjoying what time I have left.

[LightLizard]

I really don't care whether it is or not. My life isn't bad and I certainly don't want to quit dialysis. If I wanted to commit suicide, I could find much easier and less painless ways to do it. I'd rather spend my time enjoying what time I have left.

 

[okarol]

There is a good discussion of people dealing with this issue here http://www.lifeoptions.org/forums/patient/posts/70.html

[Lilu323]

I was reading this post and was actually appalledt that people think its suicide to stop dialysis. I understand its a touchy subject with many ways of looking at it but the fact remains that it is not suicide. When someone committs suicide (or intentionally kills themselves) that person is perfectly healthy and their only way of leaving this world is to kill themselves. Like rerun said our life would have stopped if we didnt have dialysis. God gave us this disease and in his eyes it was already our time to leave. Modern medicine intervened and said hey here is an option for you if you want to continue for awhile longer. I knew someone that stopped dialysis bc it was in their religion that modern medicine shouldnt prolong there life when god put in her path this disease to end it. My life was saved 4 times by modern medicine and I come to think religiously I think I shouldnt be here anymore. However I endure the pain and struggle for my loved ones. Saying to stop dialysis is suicide is ridiculous.

[Wallyz]

It seems that we are looking at different definitions of suicide.   I hear some people worried about the sinful nature of the action, while others are concerned about the technical definition.

I look at it this way. If the action taken (denying dialysis care to the patient) was taken by another, would it be murder?

If  so, then it would be suicide.  Suicide is an offense/sin  against your community, removing your graces and talents and wisdom from them.  I agree that it is letting nature take its course,but I also believe nature is fallen, and that God has given us medical technologies to sustain life.

In our world, morality is difficult. If we accept that, then the easy way out is rarely the moral decision.  I would pray that all of you would engage the struggle of moral thoguht baout our shared condition. It's part of the package deal.

[aharris2]

...I knew someone that stopped dialysis bc it was in their religion that modern medicine shouldnt prolong there life when god put in her path this disease to end it. My life was saved 4 times by modern medicine and I come to think religiously I think I shouldnt be here anymore...

Does God put things in our path? God "created" us with brains of sufficient capacity to develop modern medicine. One might therefore consider Medicine a gift of God. I consider the suggestion that one should forego medical treatment because it fights against what God has willed to be absurd. This is my opinion only and is not meant as a criticism of anyone.

Just because modern medicine is there for us, do I think it is suicide to opt not to take advantage of it? No. Suicide is something that is actively done. Opting not to receive treatment is not. I do, however, believe that a parent opting to withhold medical treatment from a child for religious reasons is child abuse, potentially leading to criminally negligent homicide.

[okarol]

Is it suicide to have a "Do Not Resuscitate" order in place? No, of course not. Taking extraordinary measures to keep yourself alive is not required of you.
Some cancer patients choose not to do chemo or radiation, instead allowing the disease to take it's course. Is that suicide?
When taking dialysis becomes more than a person can bear, is it not merciful to let them choose to discontinue it?