What pets do you have? Feel free to post pics!

[Poppylicious]

Cats can be so pesky ... and so very difficult to train!

Oh but we humans... darn EASY to train - if you're a kitty!!!!

*huggles* I'm so sorry Mog has not returned I hope wherever he is, he is at rest and purring contentedly......

Awww, thank you Richard.  A little bit of me is still hopeful that he's going to come bounding in the door one day and go straight to his food bowl, then look at me as if to say, What?! whilst I stare gobsmacked at him!  Bless him, wherever he is. 

[jbeany]

  to Poppy.

I'm feeling like a bad kitty mommy today.  I just picked up my babies from the vet this morning.  I had them fixed and, yes, I'm gonna say it, declawed. 

I really wasn't planning to get them declawed when I got them.  I got them to let me clip claws, even if it did take forever.  I did all the things the vets say will train the cat to only use the proper scratching posts.  I had numerous options for scratching posts.  I had one tall one with cardboard and one with carpet.  I had two that laid flat on the floor.  I gave treats for scratching in the right places.  I rearranged furniture so the scratching posts were in the places where the cats liked to scratch.  I used duct tape sticky-side out on the furniture they liked to claw.  I used a spray bottle when they scratched what they shouldn't.  But, their favorite things to scratch turned out to be carpet and wood flooring.  I tried it all, but I just couldn't figure out how to put the scratching pads where they preferred to scratch when every inch of floor on the top two stories of the house, as well as part of the basement, consists of their favorite things to scratch.  I can't afford to keep replacing furniture, carpet, and refinishing hardwood flooring.  *sigh*

So, I gave up.  I was tired of every minute I spent with them when they were awake consisting of constant discipline.  It wasn't working and no one was happy. 

I did pay the extra fees to get laser surgery, so they would have less pain and a shorter recovery, but I still feel bad they hurt right now.

[Poppylicious]

I'm feeling like a bad kitty mommy today.  I just picked up my babies from the vet this morning.  I had them fixed and, yes, I'm gonna say it, declawed. 

*gasp*

That's actually illegal in the UK ... I get the impression that America is one of the few places where it's considered okay to do.  I just live with the fact that my cat/s are going to naturally behave like cats and there's not much I can do about it if I can't convince them to scratch elsewhere, although I found the best solution to be a very loud 'NO!' with a clap of the hands, which has them leaving the vicinity of the armchair/stair/patch of carpet/bedside and running for the scratching post immediately ... whereupon they get tickled under the chin and Oooohs and Aaaahs of affection.  But you already feel like a bad kitty mummy so I shan't scold you. 

Thank you for the hugs.

(I've read that the personality of cats can change after they've been declawed ... it will be interesting to know if yours change in any way.)

[jbeany]

I didn't know it was illegal in the UK.  Interesting.  It's still pretty common place here, and even my vet tech has her cats declawed.  The only thing that shocked me about the whole thing was being given the after-care instructions that clearly state "Do not let the cat outside for the first week."  Okay, if I actually let them outside, I would not declaw them and set them loose without defenses.  I have indoor cats, and have never let any of mine outside farther than a screened-in gazebo or a balcony, and that only after making sure the cat wouldn't ever think about jumping off.

The only change I've ever seen in a declawed cat was when my sister had an older, pound-rescue cat declawed because she was worried he might scratch her newborn.  For months after, he would limp in the most pitiful way whenever he had to walk near her or her husband.  He only did it when there was someone watching him though, since he had learned that the limping got him attention, cuddles, treats, and catnip.   

I feel a bit better now.  Mine aren't limping in the slightest, and they spent the afternoon doing what they normally do - alternating naps in the sun with playing and wrestling with each other.  They are currently sprawled on the window sill, head to head, watching the nightly dog walkers and giving each other a bath.  The worst moment was when I gave them the pain meds I'm to give them twice a day, which apparently taste horribly nasty.  Much gagging and flattened ears ensued with that process.  I'm not looking forward to several days of doses, as I'm sure they will quickly learn to hide when they see the bottles.

[cariad]

I suspect that the only way that America is one of the few places where declawing is accepted is because throughout most of the world, cats are not kept as pets and would not even be given food let alone veterinary care. I can remember being in tears on honeymoon because there was what looked like a newborn kitten mewling in the streets of Mauritius. We found a market and I purchased tinned cat food - not an easy item to come by there - then picked up the kitten and took it to a back alley to feed it. In Greece, half-starved cats would beg while we were dining outdoors, in the Caribbean and Africa there always seemed to be dogs and cats just roaming, roaming, roaming along the streets. Each area of the world has a different approach to animals, different animals that are OK to eat, OK to keep with humans, OK to exterminate. Monkeys are considered vermin in South Africa.

My brother-in-law is a British vet. Now I must remember to ask him his stance on declawing. Somehow I doubt the very practical, erstwhile farm boy would have any particular problem with it, but he would obviously follow the law.

Jbeany, don't feel bad. Your cats have an easier, happier life than the overwhelming majority of animals, pets or otherwise, on the planet. In middle school, my French teacher had seven kids and they were always short of money. I remember one of his boys (maybe 10 or so) telling his friends that they had recently got a few pet rabbits, and that over the course of several months, they now had dozens and had started to eat them. The kid this little boy was speaking to was horrified, but the French boy could not stop raving about how delicious these animals were. Oh, and a final note - one of my best friends had a cat who was declawed (before he received the cat) and he said she would paw at people as if she were trying to scratch them. He would always pull his hand away and say "Ow!" He reckoned she felt more ferocious that way and maybe did not miss her claws. He also never let her out - I would think that would be one of the requirements to having a cat declawed, to at least pretend that you were going to keep them inside.

[galvo]

Declawing is illegal in Australia and perpetrators face fines and/or imprisonment.

[deniferfer]

Wow i really had no idea it would be illegal to declaw your cat in other countries. I feel nieve how little I know really. We don't declaw our cats we have just cuz it just we don't like to do that to our cats.  What about like taking off the the dogs dewclaw or docking their tail? That is also done a lot in the USA when people sell puppies to have them look a certain way. Is that also illegal in other countries??

[jbeany]

Is it also illegal in Australia and the UK to "de-bark" a dog, then?  And, to continue deniferfer's thought - what about cropping ears on dogs, too?  Surely that's not even about saving furnishings and flooring or keeping a newborn (or an immuno-compromised fool who still wants a cat or two) from getting scratched.  That's only about looks.

The Australian law surprises me more than the UK's.  I have a vague memory of a Nat Geo article about the horrifying damage the cat population has done to the native birds there.  Seems like declawing cats would be encouraged to save the wildlife.  But maybe it was just the feral population, not the house pets.  Hmmm....my curiosity is piqued now.  I wonder what groups were behind the laws in both countries.  I rarely see any "Don't declaw" outcry here, except from a few of the individually run cat rescue places.  Even they spend most of their effort on trying to spay and neuter the local ferals.  (Which, for an interesting side thought, they dock an ear on to give notice that the cat has been fixed, in case it is recaptured in the next round up.)

I've had other cats I didn't declaw, but they were much more easily trained than these two.  I wonder if the constant upheaval from packing and moving was part of that, or if it's just a personality thing.  The last one I had declawed was just too stubborn to stop climbing the curtains.  I wouldn't have cared - the curtains didn't show any wear, since they were really heavy and vinyl lined to block drafts, and sturdy enough that I still have them.  I just hung them in my bedroom here, probably 14 years later. -  but she kept slipping and getting snagged upside down.  Very funny when I was home.  Not so cute when I wasn't and she dangled upside down until she puked.  I figured she'd eventually choke to death.  I couldn't switch to all vertical blinds - the windows were so drafty I'd have frozen.  So off she went to the vet. 

I was right - the pain meds are going to be a fight.  I have gouges in my tummy now, from being launched of off as soon as the meds have been squeezed down their little throats.  I only declawed the front paws, after all, to leave them some defenses.  They already figured that part out!

[Chris]

jneany, have you seen the treats where you stuff the pill inside  and then stuff it in the mouth? There is a device that is sold for pill delivery, but if you don't know what your doing, you can do more harm than good. There is another option I learned in vet school, but I am not sure how to put it into words. It is easier to show which is how we were taught by one of the teachers. It basically made the cat relaxed.

[jbeany]

It's liquid - half an eye dropper full twice a day.  They sit calmly enough for me that I don't need to swaddle them - but  they launch off me to try to choke it back up the moment I let them go.  I suppose I'd prefer to be upright to gag down the nasty stuff, too.  They aren't trying to fight me, just get down as quickly as possible.  I'm going to wear a heavier shirt for the launch away after tomorrow's doses. 

[Poppylicious]

Wow i really had no idea it would be illegal to declaw your cat in other countries. I feel nieve how little I know really. We don't declaw our cats we have just cuz it just we don't like to do that to our cats.  What about like taking off the the dogs dewclaw or docking their tail? That is also done a lot in the USA when people sell puppies to have them look a certain way. Is that also illegal in other countries??

Ear cropping and the docking of dog's tails is banned/illegal (exceptions for some working dogs) in the UK and most of Europe too.  And Australia and parts of Canada. 

It's illegal/banned - or considered VERY inhumane (only to be done in the most exceptional circumstances) - to declaw a cat in the following countries (and this isn't a fully comprehensive list):

England
Scotland
Wales
Italy
France
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Norway
Sweden
Netherlands
Northern Ireland
Ireland
Denmark
Finland
Slovenia
Portugal
Belgium
Spain
Brazil
Australia
New Zealand
Israel
Malta
Bosnia
Czech Republic
Coatia
Cyprus
Turkey
Romania

As far as I'm aware these countries will only allow it for medical reasons due to the fact that it's like amputating part of a toe! 

Sorry, not looking to start a debate, offend or upset anyone ... like deniferfer and cariad say, it's interesting how different countries respond to the same scenarios and how our views can maybe be manipulated by laws, culture and whatnot.  When we have pets we try to do our best for them within the laws and comfort zones of our own cultures and countries.  But what matters most is that your pets are happy, healthy and loved, with food in their bellies and a roof over their heads.

And that they have copious amounts of peanut butter to eat (I should see if my Dora likes that, but it would mean buying a jar and I'd eat it all up and get fat!)

[cariad]

Well, you don't have to worry about offending/upsetting me, I find cultural discussions fascinating and this is making me want to do cultural research on global attitudes toward animals.

The list is interesting. I found the website where I believe you pulled the list and was instantly struck by two things: if we are going to count places that find declawing inhumane, then the US would make that list. There are plenty of people here who believe it is, and in my quick internet search I've found that it has been outlawed in Los Angeles and other parts of CA. Secondly, listing the UK countries separately seems an attempt to make this list seem longer than it is, and to argue that there is some sort of global outcry over this, and that just is not so. Much of Europe and Oceania, and a few outlier countries does not a global outcry make. Absent from this list is *any* North American, Central American, African, or Asian country. As I've said, concern over the welfare of house cats is going to be limited to a few privileged countries. The fact that Spain (Spain!!!!) would outlaw it (I will ignore the nebulous 'finds it inhumane' designation because it is ultimately meaningless) is a rich hypocrisy given their love of bullfighting, for example. Then there is hunting, branding, raising animals to eat them, using them for items like milk, mindlessly destroying their habitats, cockfighting, dog fighting, dog racing, horse racing, (in)breeding, and even putting animals into zoos or training them to be in film/theatre. I once read a really interesting interview with a star of the television program Frasier in which the actor said that he did not view the dog on that show as a dog but as another actor because that dog would not react to *anything* without being told to do so by a trainer. He said all of the dog's animal characteristics had been trained straight out of him.

Really, all of these countries, and America I hasten to add, are guilty of outrageous human rights abuses.

I had a conversation about treatment of pets with a Canadian vet-in-training when I was in South Africa. He said much of the world (did not quantify 'much') finds fixing pets inhumane - you are depriving them of a basic, evolutionary drive. That more than declawing will alter their behaviour, but here failing to fix one's pet is considered irresponsibility. The first vet I took my AJ to argued that it was inhumane to let domesticated cats out to roam, giving me pamphlets showing that it basically lowers their life expectancy by a third. I never let my cats out and they did not seem to want to go out. I trained at a suicide hotline with a woman from Jamaica. She was not accepted onto the line despite years of experience in her home country I guess because she failed one of the tests. She had to do a mock call with someone who was depressed over the loss of a dog, and she said in Jamaica they really don't do pets so she was having a difficult time relating to this sadness. (I saw the mock call and I thought she did fine, only mentioning the cultural difference after the fact.) She had just survived the murder of her brother and seemed to accept that as part of life as well.

It bothers me when people anthropomorphize this, as one site compared declawing to amputating a person's fingertips. A person without fingertips would struggle to perform basic tasks in life, whereas most cats continue on as normal after being declawed. My childhood cats used to infuriate my father by hanging from the screen doors and on the silk curtains. How they managed to keep their claws I'll never know. I think he just did not want to pay for it, and kicking them out of the house permanently solved many of the damage issues.

[cariad]

It's liquid - half an eye dropper full twice a day.  They sit calmly enough for me that I don't need to swaddle them - but  they launch off me to try to choke it back up the moment I let them go.  I suppose I'd prefer to be upright to gag down the nasty stuff, too.  They aren't trying to fight me, just get down as quickly as possible.  I'm going to wear a heavier shirt for the launch away after tomorrow's doses. 

I was told by vets that cats cannot choke (as in the possibly lethal type of choking) and with tablets, force their mouths open (you probably know this but you press the sides of the mouth in a certain spot where the jawbone comes together and it is then easy to open their mouths) then you basically have their mouths held open like baby birds waiting for food, and aim for the back of the throat. Then shut their mouths and they will probably cough a little, but if you do it right, they cannot help but swallow the medication. Would probably work just as well with liquid.

[jbeany]

Oh, yeah, I'm getting them to swallow it.  It makes them foam at the mouth, it tastes so bad.  The vet said to expect the foaming, so I know they are getting it down.  Poor babies!  Talk about the cure being worse...

I agree with Cariad - it's a fascinating cultural difference.  I wonder how much of America's "do what you want to your pet" attitude comes from our farming roots, especially where I live.

The Jamaican women I've met while they were working in Mackinaw for the tourist season think we're all crazy with our pets here in America.  They have a dog that stays outside to guard the house, and cats that are only allowed in to catch rodents.  The cats aren't given cat food or treats, let alone toys and catnip.  My mother and I drove one group who worked for us to the closest mall, 3 hours away.  The giant Petsmart store amazed them.  Pet cats and dogs seemed normal to them, even if the spoiling didn't, but lizards, frogs, snakes, and cockroaches were so far past their idea of pets, they couldn't believe it wasn't a joke.

And yeah, I agree about the human rights abuses.  The endless efforts to reunite abused kids with their parents mystifies me too, when you compare it to the quick and decisive rulings on people who abuse animals.

[Poppylicious]

The list is interesting. I found the website where I believe you pulled the list ...

*chuckle* ... I promise I did do my research from more than one website ... I spent half an hour checking and re-checking that every country on that list had actually banned it and added the other countries when I'd found them.  I wasn't just going to post a list of countries willy-nilly without going over the finer details first because I certainly don't believe everything I read online!  It's one reason I find family tree amateurs so irksome ... they never do their bloody research to back their claims up! I did actually consider just putting the UK instead of dividing it into separate areas, but I am first and foremost English (if you ask me to define myself I won't say British) so decided to leave it as it was.

 

[deniferfer]

Thanks so much poppy for taking the time to look up and research all the different counties that it is illegal to declaw and other things.

It don't get offend either to learn and to find out the law, cultures or other things of different counties. I find it fascinating and very intriguing!! I agree with Cariad that is does make you want to do a study of the different attitudes towards animals. I would love to learn anymore things you can and can't do with your animals in other counties.

I totally agree with you jbeany, I'm adopted and I don't understand the push the having children if the natural parents is the right thing even if they are not fit parents!! This boggles my mind!! I know I am how I am today cuz of my adopted parents and I don't know what would have happen if they had me go back to live with my natural birth family. 

       

[cariad]

The list is interesting. I found the website where I believe you pulled the list ...

*chuckle* ... I promise I did do my research from more than one website ... I spent half an hour checking and re-checking that every country on that list had actually banned it and added the other countries when I'd found them.  I wasn't just going to post a list of countries willy-nilly without going over the finer details first because I certainly don't believe everything I read online!  It's one reason I find family tree amateurs so irksome ... they never do their bloody research to back their claims up! I did actually consider just putting the UK instead of dividing it into separate areas, but I am first and foremost English (if you ask me to define myself I won't say British) so decided to leave it as it was.

 

Oh, no, no, no! I was not criticizing your research! It was just that the wording you used (the "illegal or considered inhumane") happened to appear on the first site I clicked on, and so I assumed that you were using the normal, time-saving practice of cut and paste. I certainly would have. And I would never have bothered to condense England, N. Ireland, Wales, and Scotland into the UK, I just felt that for the person who put up the page, it was a bit of a cheat. But then, maybe they did not realize. They are different countries and no one is more serious about this distinction than my fiercely nationalistic husband.

In this country, it is difficult to disentangle the animal rights movement from PETA, an organization that has probably alienated more people who would normally support their cause than any other in the US. Every time they exploit women to get attention, it makes me wish I could don my fabulous fur coat and order a bacon double cheeseburger to eat right in their faces. They are such a huge turn off to most people that it makes one suspect that they secretly don't like animals all that much, otherwise why would they damage the cause to the extent that they have. I love animals (most) and am definitely a conservationist when it comes to endangered species, but I stop short of believing that animal rights are as important as human rights. I was warned that when I had children I would not be as concerned about pets anymore, and I didn't believe that, but sure enough, it changed my sense of priorities dramatically.

[kitkatz]

Trinket, or Minkie as is her nickname.  My daughter brought her home from a broken home of a friend.  She is corgi mix.

[cariad]

I wonder how much of America's "do what you want to your pet" attitude comes from our farming roots, especially where I live.

I suspect it's more to do with the bible, that line in genesis (maybe??) that gives people dominion over all the other creatures. While some do not believe it, the US is one of the most religious countries in the world. There is a phrase I've heard for the more European brand of practicing faith - something like "secular Christianity". I've heard people say that they go through the motions in certain European countries but many people there admit that they do not even believe the doctrines of the religion that they practice. It's an endlessly fascinating world.

I had a born-again Christian roommate in NYC. No, we didn't come to blows, although I'm sure there were instances that could have gone that way. Our third roommate was a liberal Catholic, so sort of caught in the middle between our two extreme views. The Catholic and I were horrified when the born-again told us that the bible does not explicitly say that we have to be nice to animals, and that the only compulsion people should feel to treat animals well should come from the fact that it teaches us to treat people well into the bargain. She also said, much to the Catholic's horror, that animals do not go to heaven because they do not have souls. I remember vividly her telling me that angels were souls without bodies and animals were bodies without souls. The Catholic asked why, if this was the case, did animals have such distinct personalities. The born-again could not really answer that, but she did offer that if you got into heaven, God would let you have your pet there if you really wanted it with you. (This was the other thing that irritated me so much about her - she was not yet 20 and talked to us as if she had the authority of a great biblical scholar.) Anyhow, it's just a guess. The no-nonsense farm life would dovetail nicely with the born-again's biblical interpretation.

[kitkatz]

I told my daughter:  That is not a dog, it is a red river hog!

See the pics!

[jbeany]

Spent my first night away from my kittens last night.  I'm forgiven, mostly because I brought home a new pack of pompoms, which are everyone's favorite toy.  (Geez, I need to unpack my craft yarn and pom makers so I can stop paying a fortune for these things.)  So, after snuggle time, treats, and the new toys, everyone is happy again.  I was a bit worried they would be upset about tonight's fireworks, but they've been going off so frequently in my neighborhood for the last month, they don't even flinch at loud noises now, which is fabulous. 

So, I'm logged on the 'puter, surfing away, and I keep hearing the oddest, random, squeaky, chugging and humming noise.  What the heck?  Not outside, not any of the ceiling or window fans...it stops when I get up and start trying to walk around to find it.  Huh.

Found it.  Dora is so excited with the new pom that she is alternately panting from over-excitement and growling at her brother to keep him away.  Good grief!

[MaryD]

Good idea!  Ed and Yuki are getting their first pompom today - when I work out what colour they would like most.

[Chris]

I tried to post pictures of my new guide dog, but files are to big to post. I now have a female black lab named Whitley. I am still in New York training with her though and she is very intelligent and quiet which I hope dpes not change when I get home and she meets my chocolate lab. I do not know the age of her yet, that information will be given during one of our classes that probably involves the vet.
 
I'll try again later to post pictures. Sunday's are our days off from classes.

[Chris]

Ok, here are a few pictures taken either today or yesterday of my new guide dog Whitley that I have not posted on Facebook. I also found out a week early when her birthday is due to it being on July 6 and there will be a little party.

[jbeany]

Gorgeous!    to Whitley!