Kidney transplant in usa and in pakistan

[khaliq282]

Hi my all ihd buddies.hope all you tking over on the kidnies dargon.
im khaliq frm pakistan nd wana knw abt hws kidney transplant done n usa.bcoz i read abt there very diffcult nd costly a kidney transplant.hope every1 comment on that.
kidney transplant n pakistan
Here n pakistan wen a nephorlogist final that a buddy have ESRD.then the nep recmended twice a week hd r a kidney transplant.
wen a esrd decide to a kidney transplant then there 2 ways else u have a family donor r u buy a kidney frm a person.
BUYING KIDNEY IN PAKISTAN. 

In govt of pakistan have a law Of humen organs that pakistan senate passd 2 yr b4.but as n pakistan thier is nothing respect of rule of law.so also n this case illegal kidney busnis runing nd unfortunaly pakistan named as organ bazar nw.here very easy to buy r sell a kidney, thats why frm middle east ppls come nd buy a kidney here nd tk a surgery nd bk to thier countries.i fel very ashame wen i see wat happening here .....

[MooseMom]

Hi khaliq.  I have just been approved to be on the kidney transplant list.  When you ask questions about how such things are done in the US, be prepared for very complicated questions because it seems that all medical issues are very complicated here.  I will try to answer your question very broadly, and other people might have more to add.

First of all, it is illegal to buy/sell organs here in the US.

If you and your doctor decide you want to have a transplant, your doctor will refer you to the transplant center of your choice.  You will go and have an evaluation which usually means meeting with the transplant coordinator and the surgeon.  They explain the procedure to you and you ask whatever questions you need.  You have a lot of blood tests and a physical exam to make sure that there are no obvious problems.  You are then given a list of other tests that need to be performed, mostly heart and blood vessel tests.  They want to make sure you can survive the surgery.  You will also have a meeting with a social worker who will make sure you have someone to care for you after surgery and will have someone to bring you to all of your appointments after surgery.

If all of the tests show that you can survive the surgery, then the transplant center checks your medical insurance to make sure you can pay for the surgery and for all of the immunosuppressive drugs you take for the rest of your life.  If your insurance company will pay for all of this, then you are put on a waiting list.  How long you have to wait for a deceased donor kidney depends upon a lot of factors.  If you have a friend or a family member who is willing to donate, then that person gets tested for suitability, and if THAT person is able to donate, then your waiting time for a new kidney is greatly reduced.

Here in the US, the idea is that the longer you have to wait, the more waiting time you accrue, and you steadily move up on the list.  But even if you are first in line, if a kidney comes that is a better match for someone else, that person will get it.  It's a matter of balancing waiting time and kidney compatibility.

Different transplant centers have different rules, but this is generally how it works.  I'm new at this transplant stuff, so I'm sure other people can give you more and better information.

[okarol]

khaliq,
It's difficult to read your posts when you use shortened words.
Good for you MooseMom, you have better luck translating than me.
 

[MooseMom]

It's very unfair that rich people in the Middle East can prey on people in Pakistan for organs.  I know that your country is struggling with all kinds of security issues and that your central government is not particularly strong (hopefully that will change, but such change is very hard to achieve), and as usual, it's regular people like you that end up trapped in the middle.  As you point out, it is one thing to make a law but quite another to be able to enforce it.

Do you think you might try to get a transplant?  Do you have any friends or family members who might be willing to donate?

[paris]

I have heard of U S citizens going to Pakistan for a kidney -- illegally buying it.   I can't imagine how hard kidney disease for you.   It is a difficult disease and makes us desperate at times.   

I could not begin to post on a forum that was another language---congratulations on attempting this!   If we mis-read what you have said, please correct us.   You are smarter than I am!!   My daughters boyfriend is from Tunisia and speaks four languages.  He says they have to learn them in school and Arabic and French are both their countries language.         Since Pakistan borders India, is there a mix of Hindu and Muslim or is it predominately one faith?   I hope I am not asking too many questions.  The more we learn from each other, the more we know that we are all alike.   

[khaliq282]

KIDNEY TRANSPLANT
When u willing a kidney transplant.nd u have nt afamily  donor then u go to a ureologist nd show him ur nephorlogist reports.then he ask u r u willing buy a kidney.then the rate to be fix .its start frm 500000 to 1000000rp(6000$ to 12000$).then then ur doc. take sm lab tests.that use fr kidney matching.wen u gt a match with a kidney then ur ureologist admit  you n hosptial nd give u a date .tthen u got a surgery nd u have a new kidney.

[MooseMom]

But khaliq, if someone is able to afford to buy a kidney, where does that kidney come from?  Do people willingly sell one of their kidneys?  I would think that if your family needs money, someone might pressure you into selling one of your kidneys...does that ever happen?

[khaliq282]

Sorry okarol u feel diffcult to understand to my post.i will try to write in full words,and there is a 2 reasion of short hand writting.
1 is that i was  a regularl wap chatter 1 yr b4,nd i use to chat daily many hrs fr  3 yrs.so its becme my habbit ever i writte,i write n short hand.
2nd our national languag is urdu.nd all edcuation sylbase  teach n urdu.english teach as a complsury subject.im always gud n english speaking,oral english.but nt gud n spelling writting.i cn talk nd understand any english speaking buddy gud.hope all u there help nd understand me.
moosemom i willing to get a kidney transplant but im confusie that if i go wid hd more r get  a kidney transplant.bcoz there is a gud and safe surgery i want that very difcult here n pakistan.2nd afraiding of rejection of new kidney nd wen u cm on hd again u have more worse health.and i saw many casess that r more worse health.so bcoz of that i afraid.
my father wana donte me nd my wife also wana dontion a kidney.

[MooseMom]

Those are good reasons to be afraid.  I don't blame you.  If surgical care is not very good in your area, and if it is difficult to get access to the drugs that help prevent rejection, then I'm not sure that transplantation would be worth it.  But if you have a donor, then you are luckier than most people.  Perhaps you could at least have your donors tested to make sure they're compatible.  If they are, at least you have that choice.  You don't have to make a decision right now.  If you are doing well on dialysis and are reasonably happy with the way things are going, then you have plenty of time to think about transplantation.

[khaliq282]

Thanks paris fr ur appriations.
yes u right as many qusations we ask more we cn knw each other.
as u ask,
pakistan nd india when was seprate in 1947,there is idology behind it.that muslims want a country in sub.continet.where they can spend there lives freely under the shadow of there religen islam.now n pakistan 90+ % R muslim nd other have sm other religen like chirstians,sikh,hindos,ahamdis.nd they live also freely.
Nd hindos nd muslims have different fath,muslims belive on 1 god nd hindos have belive many gods.muslims belive every things n this world own god but hindos belive every thing is god n this world.

[MooseMom]

Yes, I understand the reason behind Partition, and I certainly can understand why people would want to practice their faith in freedom.  That was one of the underlying tenets of the creation of the United States.  But Partition was such a violent process and resulted in the death and displacement of so very many people.  And you still ended up with the problem of a disjointed Muslim state, ie West Pakistan and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh).  And Kashmir is still in dispute.  We hear a lot about the tension between Pakistan and India, but of course we don't hear a lot about just regular people.  I quite enjoy Indian films, and I've seen several that deal with this issue ("Mr and Mrs Iyer" being one of my favorites). 

Is there much tolerance for different religions in Pakistan?  Are non-Muslims treated pretty well?  Do you know anyone personally who is not a Muslim?

[RichardMEL]

I've been waiting almost five years for a kidney.

I have been asked a number of times why I don't go to India/Pakistan/China/Russian(wherever) to buy a kidney.

Apart from the fact it is illegal, I also personally feel it is imoral to use my relative wealth to take advantage of someone else that desperate to have enough to get by that they would sell an organ. Also because the middlemen get most of the money anyway (eg: if I pay say $80,000US for a kidney-and I once received a PM from a certain well known broker supposedly saying it was possible for that price - then the chances are that the donor would receive maybe $1500 of that - and while $1500 would be a small fortune in a poor country, it is still wrong that the fat cats get that much more!). I do NOT want to take advantage of someone like that. The other issue is the conditions of the hospitals/places that the operation would take place, the chance of infection, follow up care etc.

So I wait my turn and see what happens.

Interestingly though I understand that some Australian citizens who have gotten sick of waiting and gone o/s to buy a kidney, have the surgery etc have come back and been covered by the oz health system in terms of getting treatment for their transplant.

[khaliq282]

Thanks moosemom for you interest in coments on my topics.
as u ask hw kidney u get.  when u willing get a kidney u go to a kidney center there is a agent of that kidney center doctor.he take all of your kidney matching information nd give u appimemt.
Its shamefull nd not a gud imgae that there is a illegel kidney racket group working.they get kidneys frm poor ppls nd give to these kidney centers fr tranplant.
As i mention b4,there is n pakistan the govt fix minimum monthly incom is 6000 (70$).n pakistan there is a 30% Ppls who even cnt offord 3 time ful meal.these ppls work as daily  wages workers.So the kidney racket target these ppls nd offerd them handsm mony so these poor ppls agree to sell thier kidney aftar they kenw they can alive too.

 RATE  OF A KIDNEY
I told b4 there is a kidney racket working.its only work fr thier profit.
they buy kidnes from poor ppls frm 50000rp To 100000 rp(600$To 1200$)nd sell to needy ppls n 500000rp to 1000000rp(7000$To 14000$).

[khaliq282]

Moosemom as u ask if n my family perssure to sell my kidney.thanx god i belong i belong to an education family.nd frm a middle standerd family.thanx god we cn offord almost every thing wat we need.so there is no concept of sell any oragan ur body n wich family nd socity i belong.even n my town i never heard any 1 sell thier kidney.
Moosemom other u ask abt religen.i reply u n pakistan post.hope u cn under stand ,i wana hear abt kidney talk.thanks u.

[MooseMom]

Do you think anyone in your family could donate a kidney to you?  I know this is all still quite new to you, and you probably have not had the time to make any decisions, but your family seem to be close and loving; I'm sure they would help you if they could.  Do you think you might seriously think about this?  You've described some of the things that make surgery dangerous in Pakistan, but here in the US, the major problem is finding a donor.  You don't seem to have that problem (assuming that one of your family members is healthy enough).  What kind of testing do they do on potential donors in Pakistan?  Do you have anyone other than your doctor who can advise you?  Here, people who are awaiting a kidney or are on dialysis have a social worker who can help advise in such matters.

[khaliq282]

Yes moosemom my family very loving nd caring.my father nd my wife wiling to give a kidney.
these days im tking that decine.i search nd i found only 1 hosptial that international stand.that name is SIUT That place in karachi .they do transplation only if u have a family donor.but that city very away frm wer i nw.its 26 Hrs drive frm my city.
With a bad luck here no any person nd orginations that give me any advise on my health r my kidney transplation. wat i wil decide its own my risk.

[MooseMom]

Oh khaliq, what a difficult situation you are in.  I'm so sorry you do not have more medical support.  We here at IHD can certainly help you with all kinds of information and advice, but we are not best placed to give you the advice that you need for YOUR health.  That is best done by your doctor.

There is all kinds of advice for kidney patients on the web, particularly dietary advice.  Controlling your diet and not eating things high in dairy or potassium or phophorus is so very important because failed kidneys do not filter these things from your blood.  Too much potassium interferes with your heart, and too much phosphorus leads to making your blood vessels fragile and to the formation of calcium deposits throughout your body.

I guess very much depends upon how unhappy you are on dialysis and how desperate you are for transplantation.  Would it be possible to at least have your family members tested locally?  You don't have to go all the way to Karachi just to see if any of them are of a compatable blood type, do you?