Las Vegas STRONG

[MooseMom]

Oh, now the timeline changed.  I'm telling you, this nut was an arms dealer, drug dealer, and a human trafficker probably to the Philippines.  He had two airplanes that have the numbers of a different plane on one tail that belongs to another tail.  Follow the money.   That explains all the money he gambled away or laundered.  He thought he had a good gig going until he got popped. 

Just saying......   

So what?  I don't care what his motive might have been.  The very fact that he was able to murder all of these people is the issue, not WHY he did it.  Why was he able to amass this arsenal?

Where did you get this "news" that he was an arms dealer and human trafficker? 

[Rerun]

The statistics this article uses is only because White Responsible Gun Owners do register.  The Black Thugs Don't.  Look at Chicago AGAIN!

I'm just thinking out of the box on this nut.  He got his mass of guns legally because he passed his background checks.  If he would not have passed he would have bought them illegally like will happen anyway.

Just like if they BAN Abortion... they will go to the back ally anyway......   Right?

[Jean]

   Right!!

[Bill Peckham]

So it is hopeless. If a someone wants to shoot up a crowd there isn't anything we can do if (s)he is sneaky enough about it? Might as well give everyone access to whatever weapon they desire ... hmmm that doesn't work in any other situation why would it work in the case of guns?


Gun manufacturers are the only group that benefits from mass gun ownership. Like you say rerun, follow the money.

[Simon Dog]

Within this group, gun ownership is as much a hoppy and an effort at self-defense as it is a way to forge an identity and bond with a like-minded community.

I assume you meant hobby, not hoppy.

There are many adult hobbies that consume time, energy and resources as well as provide a social structure for long term friendships outside of work.  Some that come to mind are Golf; Skydiving; Car collecting/restoration/racing; Scuba diving and bridge clubs.   I happen to be one of the people who has enjoyed recreational and competition shooting (although my skills are only average, I have traveled the US and parts of Canada, eh?) for matches.   Guns are no different to me than a parachute, scuba tank, bungee cord, or golf club - they are my tools of recreation.   Those of you who are religious may use church groups as a source for non-work social structure but, alas, the Pastafarians don't have many get togethers.

I have found that due to the rigors of a dialysis schedule, I travel less and only get out shooting every few weeks.   It seems that I spend more time taking my toolbox to the club to fix something that than actually using the ranges.

When I had my hip replaced, I had to go back in-center for a couple of months while I regained my mobility and HGB.   A quick email to the gun club mailing list got me all the rides I needed for treatment.  When I was in the hospital after a medical crisis and needed a ride, a similar email brought numerous offers - including one person would would have to drive 100 miles to pick me up to bring me home.   I have had the privilige of getting to know many people outside my job specialty of IT/data, encompassing a much broader section of society than I would otherwise meet.    I've gotten to know plumbers, all manner of skilled tradespeople, attorneys, doctors, airline pilots, very senior corporate executives, EMTs, cops, a Texas Ranger, and people who work in honest, but unremarkable, jobs.   Two of the later decided to put the skills they learned in their hobby to use and became air mashalls.  Yesterday, I ran into my Optometrist and his office staff trying out a couple of EBRs (evil black rifles).

I find it ridiculous that I, and people like me, are characterized as a "problem" because of my hobby.    There was an interesting time when my neighborhood called the PD on a suspicious car (turned out to be someone with a very valid reason to be parked on my street) and asked the officer "aren't you concerned with someone owning all those guns".  The cop gave the neighbor a lecture about how I was known to the department, considered a good guy, and how they could use more people like me in town.

I happen to live in a state with some of the most severe gun laws, including a court decision that I may be stripped of my right to own a handgun if I ever exercise my right to remain silent (It's called "Pick the 1stA or 2nd; you cannot exercise both").   Even with all that, I am actually licensed to carry concealed pretty much every where except schools, courts and federal facilities.  So are at least 5% (10% according to the newspaper, but they used creative math) in this state and guess what .... crime by license holders is virtually non-existent.

You wouldn't look at a crime committed by a black and start talking about how "black people are the problem".   Make such an assumption about us law abiding types who happen to enjoy both informal and formal recreational shooting is equally bigoted.

Many are hoarded by "super owners," a group of mostly male extremists who make up just 3% of the adult population but own an average of 17 guns apiece.

I will admit I am somewhat over that number (I really should count them one of these days), but I am by no means an "extremist" in my behavior or views.  Unless, of course, you apply this derogatory label to anyone who happens to have a non-trivial collection.

But wait, I get it .... ridicule the opposition is one of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.

The statistics this article uses is only because White Responsible Gun Owners do register.

Blacks are underrepresented in the shooting groups I hang with, but are most welcome.  The only three I know from the gun club are an MRI tech (she recently retired); a federal air marshal and a cardiac surgery anesthesiologist.

[willowtreewren]

How do you know they haven't?  How much have you given?  Oh, wait, they were probably Repubtards, so you won't.  You bleeding heart lib-tards  talk but don't act.  That over 8 million was only in 3 days.  That is a Miracle.  Thank you Jesus.

Having just returned from the IHD reunion in LV I started reading through this thread with interest. Until this post, it was reasoned and polite and now I see name calling, and by a moderator.

Why can't you refrain from petty attacks like this? SMH!

[MooseMom]

SD, how is anyone supposed to know that you are a good guy?  Who knows when you, or any of us here, will reach the point where you've become so frustrated and angry with ESRD that you decide one day that you've had enough of some snarky tech and flip out and exercise your second amendment rights?  Why should we trust you?  Who is to say that you won't become mentally ill one day (God forbid, of course!) and resort to your "hobby" and do some real damage?  Can you promise that you will always be that good guy with a gun?

I can understand the fellowship that comes from sharing a hobby with other people!  And to be fair, I can understand how people who have an interest in guns would enjoy socializing with each other.   I'm glad that your hobby has enabled you to meet so many kinds of people.  They all sound like very fine citizens.  So, what kind of conversations do you have with them about, say, military grade weaponry in the hands of civilians?  What do your friends have to say about bump stocks?  Do you ever ask them what they think about each time there is another mass shooting?  I'm sure there are a variety of opinions!  I'd really like to know.

Saul Alinsky?  C'mon, man!

 

[Simon Dog]

So, what kind of conversations do you have with them about, say, military grade weaponry in the hands of civilians?  What do your friends have to say about bump stocks

One person's "military grade weapon" is another's "sporting target rifle".   Have you ever seen practical shooting competition or three gun matches?  Do you understand why precision; high performance semi auto fire and large mags are necessary for this sport?   Only one of the local crew has a military grade weapon - he's a licensed collector and has a rather interesting WWII machine gun (Finnish, I think).

The short answer is all of the people I hang out with at the range feel the govt is overreaching attempting to ban semi automatic firearms or magazines.   We do not feel we should be punished for the actions of others.

Other conversations center on things like JP vs Giselle triggers; what barrel twist is best for 55 gr bullets; and what kind of spotting scope will see 5.56/.223 holes at 100 yards.  Other conversations center in Pistol Caliber Carbine competition, as the 9mm AR15 is becoming a very popular platform.  Oh, and then, there is always "who is going to the Chinese restaurant when it gets to dark to shoot".

As to bump stocks - the prevailing thought is "Stupid gimmick, that is why I don't have one".   Everyone I shoot with has known about these since they came out and nobody I know bought one.  I didn't.   In fact, using one will change a highly accurate precision barrel into a "broad side of barn" plinker in short order, as full auto fire overheats barrels and reduces their accuracy capability.  My crew is angered at the opportunism of the politicians - like the local state rep who tried to add on other things to the bill to confiscate legal private property, but isn't really concerned about the bump stock ban.

Did you know the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives stepped on its organ with bump stocks?

First, they approved the Atkins Accellerator - a bump stock with a spring to make it easier to use.
Then, they de-approved the Atkins, and required owners dispose of the spring
Then, they left the approval for the springless ones in place

My reaction when I read the original approval ruling letter was WTF?

Interestingly, the BATFE just rejected approval for another gadget - a glove with a trigger finger that vibrates quickly.   While this may have some potential as a sex toy, it was even stupider than a bump stock.

Why should we trust you?  Who is to say that you won't become mentally ill one day (God forbid, of course!) and resort to your "hobby" and do some real damage?  Can you promise that you will always be that good guy with a gun?

Why should I trust the govt and cede by right to defense to the state?

If I ever get sick of ESRD, I have the choice of many ways to end it ... one is even legal.   I would never bring dishonor to the gun owning community by using a firearms against myself or others (lawful self defense excluded).

Saul Alinsky?  C'mon, man!

Read "Rules for Radicals".    Ridicule is one of the techniques on his list.