dating and sickness

[gothiclovemonkey]

I agree with you on most of that, Richard.
im sure for a few days, maybe even a few weeks things will be great again, then it will slowly become opposite of that.

I actually have asked him why he keeps flip flopping on wanting to be with me, and then breaking up and taking it back.
He doesnt want to be alone for the rest of his life. His words. And that he feels guilty that i uprooted for him. (not the best reasons to stay with someone)
So I said, it isnt me you love, its the idea of me.... I just happen to be the choice because I am fun to be around. similar interests, etc
He said that sounds about right but I do love you.
I said, ya, platonically... im like a guy friend. seriously our relationship is like 2 guy friends. There are NO 'benefits' to be had... (if you get what im saying)

The sad fact is that I know he is only with me because he doesnt want to be alone. cant say i blame him there.... but it did hurt hearing that truth.
Is that why hes wanting to try again? probably...

like i said, I know its only a matter of time before it happens, but i didnt want to give up. i still dont, really... but i kind of have. im not going to invest my energy in it anymore. ive invested too much as it is. its all in his court now.
i have no idea how to trust him again, or what he can do. he asks me, i have no answers... i think it just has to happen? and if it doesnt we wont have a relationship. im not dumb, i know that.

[RichardMEL]

none of us wants to be alone. I know this as nmuch as anyone  - perhaps a little more since my most loyal "partner" over the years has been my kitty!! lol

but that's some harsh honesty there (but about time) and I suppose I will give him some credit for admitting that to himself let alone you.

I thus don't really understand why, with this new understanding(and added hurt of that) you want to "try again" to bve more than just, as you say, platonic guy friends? What is the gain for you? There's no "benefits" that I can see... except angst?

If I was told that someone was with me because the alternative was being lonely well I think I'd tell them maybe there's a reason you're in that situation - in that you reap what you sow kind of thing. That's cruel, but so is being in a false relationship like that... and really... for you, when you've already said that you feel more lonely when you're there "with him" - how does that help you?

I mean looking at it strictly from what he's said as you've relayed it - to want to try again "with" you for the reason that being alone is worse seems VERY selfish to me.. it's about what he wants.

for me, when I've  loved a person, where their happiness and wellbeing is ahead of mine... it's not about what I want so much. I couldn't honestly bear the thought of someone I cared about that much being miserable because I was "with" them. Many years ago I was with an absolute darling wonderful lady. We got on well, we were, I thought, a pretty good pair. We had no major problems relationship wise or anything like that except.... she wanted desperately to have children.. and I do not. I realised being with me was wrong for her because she was so unhappy because I wasn't willing to give her what she wanted (yes the concept of a child of mine is chilling to everyone!)... so, I made the only decision I felt I could and I broke up with her.. not because I didn't love her, but because I *did*.

I'm not posting that to say oh I'm awesome or anything (I think maybe if I was awesome I would have had a kid with her... I dunno) but just trying to contrast *MY* idea of what love is all about (others opinions may vary wildly!) with where it seems your situation is at - he says he loves you, but it doesn't seem that way to me....

[gothiclovemonkey]

I completely agree with you, and I actually brought some of this up to him today...
He keeps flip flopping what hes saying, its so frustrating. Now he is saying that he does want ME, not just the idea of me.
He said today, he knows for a fact it would be easier to say F it and walk away, and not be in this relationship, but hes here because he wants to be.
Its like he really doesnt know what he wants, or what hes saying when he says it...

He said it will be different this time, and while i dont really believe that, i figure id give it one last try... he said too that he would work on being more romantic with me, more affectionate and intimate. While i dont fully understand how someone can have absolutely no desire to do that sort of thing, i feel almost like he sees it as a chore... that does bother me some, but im reading more about this 'asexual' biz, and apparently a lot more people have this problem than i was aware of...
And of course he swears hes done with the lying too, he said he doesnt have a clue why he does it, it just happens. I said when it just happens, you need to fess up right then and say hey, that was a lie, this is whats truth. dont let me catch you in another lie, ill be done at that exact moment.

I still have no idea how to trust him again, he says thats something i have to figure out, but i kind of feel that something he also has to figure out, i cant tell him how... he just needs to put up with my paranoia until i can trust again? idk..

I think that what you did, Richard, is a selfless thing. It takes a lot to do something like that because you love someone. I would have done the same thing. Some people arent kid people... hell, i never wanted a chld, i love my son, so thankful for him, but i never would have purposedly had a child!
I often wonder if thats what I should have done a while ago, when i found out that my being sick is too stressful for him... maybe the right thing to do would be to walk away...

I also agree that love is wanting that person happy, putting them before me type of thing... i do so much for both him and my son, to keep them both happy, they dont want for anything... but i do. I am not complaining, i chose to get them things they want, while putting my wants on the backburner. I dont really want anything except for their happiness anyway.
he admits hes too selfish, and has to work on that.

He says the reason it will be different this time is he knows now that it really does hurt me and effect me negatively... (i said, you didnt know this before?!?! really??) Maybe it just took me being serious about ending it for him to open up his eyes and realize hes about to lose me for him to do anything about it....
or maybe i am being a fool again... we will see

[RichardMEL]

wow. I have so many conflicting thoughts here. While reading I was shouting out to myself (inside voice ) that "Of COURSE he'll say he wants to be with YOU because he's realised admitting he doesn't want to be alone is a horrible insult, and he's using the "oh no really I've thought about it and I want to be with YOU for YOU" card because it gets him what he wants" and then further along I was thinking "What really?! he just figured out being a lying selfish shit wouldn't hurt someone else?" - duh

I'm sorry glm, but this guy KNOWs.. of course he knows.. and I refuse to think it has ANYTHING to do with your health situation. Why? Because you yourself said he has had other ex's he's treated the same way - what they all have chronic illnesses?

He says he hasto "work on" this, "work on" that, "try harder" blah blah... I dunno but really for me it shouldn't be a chore to be with someone.. if it is then the rship clearly isn't working for one and probably both. Yes, that is quite judgemental and I hate being like that because I only read one side of things and one interpretation of things but geez you've been through so much.

I kind of get the "asexual" thing a little.. not that it's me ( ) but I did used to work with a guy who I think never had any interest in touching another human in any kind of intimate way, and there was also a friend of my mothers who married a man and they never kissed, touched etc - he slept on the couch (!) or in his own room.. yet  the arrangement seemed to work for them - and that's the key to my mind.. whatever goes on if people are HAPPY and comfortable then who am I to judge or whatever just because it's not what I'd want or think was "normal" (whatever that is these days).

and again that thought brings me back to the core issue I have - your comfort/happiness/emotional wellbeing in your situation. I realise you are "physically" stuck for another 4 or 5 months at least, but you're also emotionally stuck - you don't know how you can trust him (and I for one do not see how) and without trust and communication that you also can't trust (eg: lying) etc.. what the hell have you got? What do YOU get out of "trying again"? Yes, you want Jareth to be happy and so on, but he will also feed off your emotions and even if you don't on purpose discuss it out loud with him then, like an animal, he will pick up subconscious vibes that there's a problem or things aren't right or whatever. (and no, I am not saying Jareth is an animal ).

It also concerns me greatly that he claims he doesn't know why he lies to you but it "just happens" - umm... what? A bit of denial there methinks.

The sad thing is I've seen some of his posts last year on facebook and the like and I thought hey he's a really nice guy and good for you it seems and so yeah then I feel bad because I'm reacting and writing this stuff when I don't really know him. Maybe I should just shush about it.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this - whatever the causes - it's just crap nobody needs on top of kidney disease and all those complications.

I just really don't want to see another thread like this in a few weeks or months saying "I'll give him another go" ok?

[Riki]

my turn..

He sounds a lot like my last boyfriend.  We were together, off and on, for about 5 years, and we lived together for most of the last 2 years.

When he first moved in with me, we were very happy.  He very quickly found a job, since he was moving from another province, and I was about a month in on dialysis for the second time.  He was there a week when I got the call for my kidney and all of a sudden, I was away for three weeks.  We talked on the phone a lot, and he sent over a birthday gift with my parents, because he had to work when they were coming.  We had a lot of fun that summer, since I was off work and he'd lost his job (I never quite understood what happened with that).  I went back to work 3 months after the transplant, and started asking him to start looking for one too, because it would be easier to have two incomes.  I nagged a bit about that, I do admit.  We moved into a cheaper apartment, and suddenly we had 2 bedrooms, as we'd turned a store room into a second bedroom.  We were there maybe a month and a half before we started fighting, over the amount of people he had in, all day and all night, and nothing being done while I was working.  Soon we no longer had an extra bedroom, because he was in one, and I was in the other.  We broke up and got back together a couple of times while we lived there.  We decided to move to Nova Scotia.  I managed to get a job over there before I left, and we moved into his mom's house.  Again, we slept in separate bedrooms, and it was a chore to get him to spend a little bit of time with me.  Everything blew up in a major fight on Valentine's Day, and I ended up moving in with my grandparents for a few months, till I finally decided to move back home with my parents.  In those 3 months, we didn't speak much, and if we met on the street, we barely looked at each other.  After I moved back home, we started talking on the phone again.  He came over to visit his new girlfriend.  I went out with him, his girlfriend, and a friend of hers, and I ended up staying the night with him where he was staying.  He broke up with the girlfriend, and we started seeing each other again.  Not long after this, my best friend was murdered, and she was close to both of us.  We got much closer after she died, holding each other up at the funeral.  I went to Nova Scotia to visit him, and stayed for 2 months.  One night, we were alone, and we started talking, and he told me that the reason we kept breaking up was because he was gay, and he hadn't been able to face it.  He told me that if I wanted him to, he'd stay with me, and he'd even marry me if that was what I wanted, because he knew that I loved him, and deep down, he loved me too, in his own way.  I said no, because I didn't think it was fair to him, and we broke up for the last time that night.

In the end, he did love me, but he couldn't love me the way I wanted him to, and that was why we fought, why we slept in separate bedrooms, everything.  It all made sense to me.  That was over 10 years ago.  We're still good friends.  He still knows me better than most, and has actually asked me to marry him a couple of times, but I always say no.  We get along much better as friends, and I like it that way.

I'm not saying that PJ is gay, but there may be some deep seeded issues that he's not able to face yet, and until he does, he's not going to be much good to you, and you might be better off as friends.

[gothiclovemonkey]

riki, honestly, i think you hit the nail on the head with that one... ive often wondered that about him. like he cant accept what he is, so hes hiding it.

one thing i can say, because i personally do know how hard it is to accept that you might want something that you dont want... heh i realize that probably doesnt make much sense. I struggled for a while with my sexuality, im not gay, but im not exactly straight... i choose to be with men. i dont think there is anything wrong with being gay, i just dont want a relationship with a woman. (i know its confusing... but the best way i can explain this would be by saying I dont see "sex" everyone is just a person to me, no males no females, just people... i obviously know that men and women are men and women, i just dont see them that way... when i look at someone i see their personality not their parts. )


Richard, I can promise you this is the last time. If things dont get better, im gone. I wonder the same things you do, i really do. Ive tried asking him about it too, that it does seem like it would be a chore for him... he keeps flip floping his answers.
and my fears about not being able to trust him ever again... i dont like constantly wondering if hes lying or not.
One thing ive learned abut relationships in general is that you can say pretty much anything, you can say I love you, does that make it truth? no. you can mean that you love some one, but maybe its not the kind of love that makes a life with another, but just a friend... or it can even be, ill say i love you so that i can get whatever i want...
he said it first, but i dont think he really knows what love is.

you ask what i get out of trying again? for one, the knowing i didnt give up... that i do care for him and i didnt just give up on him. it would be easier, i know that... but i dont want to just give up on him. i wanted this to work...

[Ladystardust24]

@Gothiclovemonkey

Holy crap girl.

(And this is why we need to text more often!)

Yeah, relationships can be super hard. I've recently-ish been having my own. Sometimes, after two years it's hard to keep things somewhat fresh. It's also hard when our personal issues become harder to deal with.

I think the best thing, is to be realistic. Take your emotions and feelings into account. Also, I feel like some people feel because they're sick, they should take what they can get.

But you have more right than that. We all have needs. I personally, believe to each their own. My best friend who is engaged, admits her fiancee can't really give her some things she needs and desires. But, she is happy with him. That she can be without those things.

For myself, I'm personally doing the best I can. At some point, if trying to better myself, bothers someone. Or, asking for my needs bothers someone, they are not worth it to me. (I know that sounds cold, but it's the best way I can phrase it.)

As much as I respect how people do relationships, I have to admit, my "unconventional" relationship orientation gives me a certain perspective. One thing I've learned, I am responsible for expressing my needs and desires. I have to be honest with myself and my partner(s). Say, if I'm having a hard time, I have to talk about it. And, we keep saying communication, but that's not as easy as it sounds.

As for his ex, I think it's important to ask him why she is so important to his life. And to be honest about it. And ask yourself, why you don't like her, what worries/scares you. Explain that. Jealousy is a real emotion, and a valid one. (All feelings are) But jealousy can be also "envy" and "insecurity" and many things.


With all that said: As hard/crappy it might me. Perhaps he is better as a friend? If that's so... that's not so terrible. :/

[Lexxtech18]

Sounds to me you're afraid of being alone because of your CKD, and you see this guy as almost like a last ditch effort; you're settling. Forgive me if I'm way off base, but I know exactly how that story goes. I say ditch the guy and don't look for awhile. Let love come to you and stop trying to force things. You're a good person, you will find happiness. And don't lower your standards for flip floppers who don't know what they want. 

[RichardMEL]

Interesting concept - two people both so afraid of being alone that they cling on to something that is clearly not working for either because that fear is harder.

No just thinking generally not suggesting that is the situation for glm but Lexxtech's comment brought up an interesting thought to me.

When I read that right after stardust's comment about her perspective I wonder if the conventional thing, if it doesn't work, is worth it. What do we gain from "having someone" and being miserable against not having anyone?

I sit here alone and my companion is my cat and she's been more loyal than a number of partners through the years she has owned me (almost 9). I know, a cat can't give some comforts that a human can - and isn't very good on the conversation front either, but then again she's always honest with me, doesn't play mind games, knows to run away when I am yelling at the footy, etc. but I digress. I guess I mean that for me I can't understand why you would want to have someone there who gives you so very little for the sake of having them.  What's the point of having more grief than pleasure in a rship? Maybe being alone is better.... but then again I sit here and could really use a hug (It does not help that James Bond has just bedded yet another beauty on the TV in front of me. Maybe I should switch to animal documentaries.... oh wait, they're always mating too.. damnit! :p )

forgive me, I'm feeling a bit old, jaded, useless and cynical right now. blah

[gothiclovemonkey]

im not settling, i love him... its the first time i think ive felt love for a guy... it kind of sucks hahaha its also kind of nice too...
i learned long ago not to settle! lol

i dont like her because of all of the drama she has brought into my life. before that, i had no issues with her. i didnt mind that they talked, and i wouldnt now, if she hadnt caused such problems... and had he not lied to me about her...