Baxter coming down on me

[Atooraya]

I need your opinion.
 For the past 6 months I have refused to comply with Baxter in giving up my PD machine so they can upgrade the software from 10.2 to 10.4 version. The reason why is that version 10.4 takes away a lot of the control that I have over the machine. And only allows my nurse to make all the modes that I can make. Now their corporate people ahve started putting pressure on my center to make me turn it in. Can they do this?

[Lillupie]

Wow I dont know for sure if they can make you do this. But you are not alone. I persoanlly hate Baxter with the passion. Pure hatred for them. Dont care for the new machine and the software. Does not make my life easier. TO be honest it makes my machine for sensitive and goes off much for frequently then it did before.
Dont get me started on Baxter.

Lisa

[KAF454]

I've never had anything but a Baxter HomChoice PRO. But I'm on my 3rd one and each replacement has been more screwy than the one it replaced.

[Willis]

I received one of the upgraded machines more than a year ago and to be honest I haven't had any serious problems. I can still make the adjustments I want occasionally such as length of therapy, volumes per cycle, etc. The only minor issue I found is that on the new machine you can't bypass the initial drain easily...the minimum drain amount needs to be tinkered with if dry or it will keep sucking your insides out for 5 minutes before finally giving up and starting the fill. Otherwise, FOR ME, I've had good relations with Baxter.

 

[jbeany]

Okay, not on and never been on PD, but when you say "Only allows my nurse" to make changes - I see wiggle room.   If the nurse can make changes, presumably with some kind of code, I'd tell your center you expect to have the code/access/ whatever that allows your nurse to control the machine.  Would that solve the problem you're having with the lack of control?  Would that be something you can negotiate with your center - not Baxter! - so everyone gets what they want (at least on paper)?  Baxter would have their machine upgraded, the center wouldn't be stuck in the middle, and you could have control of the machine, even if Baxter didn't officially know about it.

[Joe]

I'm with Willis here. I got my Home Choice Pro about a year ago too. And aside from the initial drain issue ( and I have just let it time out, it's not that uncomfortable) I'm pretty happy with it. The only issue I've had was a system fault on my original machine in July. Baxter had a new system to me in less than 18 hours. Otherwise, all has been good.

[jeannea]

When I got my upgraded machine, it came straight to the house not the clinic. It was after 4:30 and my nurses had gone home. I was able to set it up myself the way I wanted. I had no problems with the new software. But if you have problems, just ask your nurse to set it up the way you need it.

[wbdoug]

I just cheched the version on my machine and it is 10.4. This is the machine I got when I started pd last September. It has worked fine with no problems so far. I have the Homechoise, not the Homechoise pro. From what I understand is the homechoise pro requires a card that is programmed by the pd nurse.
The homechoise does not have a card slot.

Bill

[mcclane]

when i was on PD, i requested to be put on the cycler (baxter).  I don't know the version number of the software, but a few months of using the cycler I received a notice in the mail from baxter on a software upgrade; it stated something about a few patients claiming that the machine would overfill.

I chucked the notification away and ignored it.  a few months later I received another notice to upgrade, but at that point it was a moot point as PD stopped working, so doing the software upgrade didn't make any sense. 

[KAF454]

The HomeChoice Pro has a slot for a data card but it will run in standard mode without the card. The card is required to run in tidal mode.

[tito]

I have not had real problems with the Home Choice machine, although I did get the software upgrade that takes away my ability to bypass the initial drain. Now it runs and runs until I get an error, then I can bypass. Most of the time not a big deal. My complaint with Baxter is two fold: delivery (I get deliveries in Mexico, and they are often a day or two late, after much arguing), and second, the bags often have defects in the frangible, necessitating new bags after I've already set up. They refuse to do anything about this second problem, and the first is due to incompetence in Mexico.

[Willis]

second, the bags often have defects in the frangible, necessitating new bags after I've already set up.

I've had this same problem 2 or 3 times on Green bags only. No problems in last few months though.

 

[purgatory]

Atooraya - I have the same issue.  I, too, have refused to return my HomeChoice Pro for the "upgrade."  As stated in a previous post, I am on tidal and the new programming which does not allow to bypass initial drain causes me a major problem.  It's very painful for me to get to the stage where I can begin first fill. Plus, like Lisa, I have noticed more alarms when I did try to 10.4 back in March.  My center, too, is coming down on me like a ton of bricks now to return my 10.2 for the 10.4.  They have given me a deadline of Sept. 17.  Since it's an FDA recall I very much doubt that anyone will care about how the new cycler affects patients.  My doctor and nurses tell me quite a few of their patients have to do a manual before hooking up to the new Baxter, some have switched to manuals.  But no one has addressed the issue with Baxter.

[Atooraya]

Thank you all for your responses. Here is an update on the Baxter insistance that I return my older machine for software update.
So my center had received a letter form the head of the Regulatory department at Baxter. Basically putting pressure on my center to get me to return it.
I crafted a nice letter basically saying that I've had an estimated 3,528 drain/fill cycles with the current machine and have not experienced even one instance of “overfill.” None!!!!!
Additionally I reminded them that I listen to my caregivers at the dialysis center and the FDA and Baxter, however, ultimately I am the final decision maker regarding issues that affect my health and well being. Hence They need to help find a way for me to keep the old :boxing;er machne.
They haven't responded yet. The ball is in their court.   

[Lillupie]

Thank you all for your responses. Here is an update on the Baxter insistance that I return my older machine for software update.
So my center had received a letter form the head of the Regulatory department at Baxter. Basically putting pressure on my center to get me to return it.
I crafted a nice letter basically saying that I've had an estimated 3,528 drain/fill cycles with the current machine and have not experienced even one instance of “overfill.” None!!!!!
Additionally I reminded them that I listen to my caregivers at the dialysis center and the FDA and Baxter, however, ultimately I am the final decision maker regarding issues that affect my health and well being. Hence They need to help find a way for me to keep the old :boxing;er machne.
They haven't responded yet. The ball is in their court.   

Wow you have to tell us what happened!

[jeannea]

I understand that you want to be in charge. However if there is an official recall on the machine from the FDA, Baxter can be in real legal trouble for not getting your machine back. So they will if necessary bring legal action against your center and/or you. They would be well within their legal rights to cut you off without supplies. I realize you're upset but I think you've gone too far. You could be forced onto hemo without a choice. I have worked in pharmaceuticals dealing with the FDA and many of their directives are not optional.

[fearless]

well as bad as Baxter was, I didn't have anywhere near as much trouble with the HomeChoice as I did with the Fresenius machine.
After doing PD for 8 yrs, I can just tell you that I think you're smart to fight to stick with whatever's working good for you for as long as you possibly can.

side note: I know it's bad to figure these things up, but I just calculated that I probably did about 16,000 exchanges on pd.  and broke down and recycled well over 3,000 boxes

not sure which little icon to put here, but it feels like maybe:   

[purgatory]

Atooraya - I am glad you wrote that letter. Can you tell me who you addressed it to so I can send my own to Baxter??  I understand Jeanna's point about the FDA recall , but what about the rights of PD patients?  There is no way for me to set up the new cycler to make it work for me - the program won't allow it.

I have an appointment next Monday with my PD nurse and the regional Baxter nurse to see if we can find a solution that allows me to use the new cycler without doing manuals or experiencing significant pain.  But it is really hard to turn in a cycler which really works for me in exchange for one which does not.

[Atooraya]

Darn, all bets are off. I had to send back the older machine because the pumps stopped functioning. Grrrrrrrr.
I was gearing up for a nice fight with Baxter and the FDA so I could keep the old machine.
The pump failure was a lucky occurance for them both.
Now, I gotta deal with the endless initial drain pain. I wish I could put some of the Baxter Regulatory and FDA folks through the same discomfort that they are putting me in.....
 

[fearless]

I hope that you will be able to set it up in a way that won't hurt you 

[Lillupie]

Darn, all bets are off. I had to send back the older machine because the pumps stopped functioning. Grrrrrrrr.
I was gearing up for a nice fight with Baxter and the FDA so I could keep the old machine.
The pump failure was a lucky occurance for them both.
Now, I gotta deal with the endless initial drain pain. I wish I could put some of the Baxter Regulatory and FDA folks through the same discomfort that they are putting me in.....
 

I think they are trying to avoid that drain pain, by making sure people have enough fluid in them to drian out, hence the forced midday. If you are patient with me, I was able to play around with the machine and set my intial drain lower, so now I dont really have to do a midday

[Ricksters]

You make me feel lucky!  I've had my Homechoice machine for the last year, and haven't had any real major problems other than the heater not working properly!  Baxter won;t replace it unless it gives me an error message...it doesn't do that, just takes forever to heat up! 

Am getting a delivery today of my new extraneal bags so am not expecting the usual driver...will see what happens!

Ricki

[M3Riddler]

I need your opinion.
 For the past 6 months I have refused to comply with Baxter in giving up my PD machine so they can upgrade the software from 10.2 to 10.4 version. The reason why is that version 10.4 takes away a lot of the control that I have over the machine. And only allows my nurse to make all the modes that I can make. Now their corporate people ahve started putting pressure on my center to make me turn it in. Can they do this?

Atooraya,

One thing to remember is that you don't own the cycler, but rather using it.  Every so often, the cyclers must be updated with newer software versions.  It will come to a point where the version that you have will be outdated and can cause issues later.  Sooner or later, you will have to get it updated.

[Atooraya]

M3Riddler, you are not incorrect in saying that. However, remember, Baxter is providing a service and at the end of the day, I am the consumer of that service. They need to make sure I am happy. Otherwise, I'll take my business to the competitor.
Don't forget, Baxter is getting rich by capitallizing on my pain and misery. Baxter is a corporation, as such they do not have a soul or feelings or emotions. They are all about squeezing every penny of profit out of dialysis patients that they can.

[Lillupie]

M3Riddler, you are not incorrect in saying that. However, remember, Baxter is providing a service and at the end of the day, I am the consumer of that service. They need to make sure I am happy. Otherwise, I'll take my business to the competitor.
Don't forget, Baxter is getting rich by capitallizing on my pain and misery. Baxter is a corporation, as such they do not have a soul or feelings or emotions. They are all about squeezing every penny of profit out of dialysis patients that they can.

I agree. I did threaten to go to their competitors, beacause I hate Baxter soo much.

Lisa