Guns and fistulas... do they mix?

[Desert Dancer]

I'm thinking about buying a handgun BUT... in order to become proficient with one you must practice, practice, practice (as with anything else).  I'm wondering whether the recoil would be damaging to my fistula, because if that's the case then a handgun is out altogether. My fistula is in my left wrist and I am right-handed, so the left hand would really only be for support; it SHOULDN'T hurt my fistula, but I just don't know.

Any gun owners out there? I just don't know who else to ask; I'm certain my neph will be clueless.

[jbeany]

I fired hand guns frequently right-handed with a left upper arm fistula and never had a problem.  It's not doing anything to cut off the circulation.

[Hemodoc]

I shoot handguns right handed almost predominantly with only one hand fairly proficiently. I recently bought a .44 magnum because of the large animals with fangs and claws in the Idaho woods including grizzly bear and I feel capable of using it one handed. Although the danger to an upper fistula of shooting guns is probably minimal, I don't over tax mine at all. When I am shooting high powered rifles, I either use the bench rest or a shooting stick to minimize my left arm exposure to recoil. I believe that is prudent given the problems of trying to find a new access.

With a left wrist fistula, the recoil could do damage to the vessel and I would truly avoid any high recoil weapons. A well looked after fistula can last several decades, why take the chance of getting complications from a failed access. Learn how to shoot pistols and revolvers one handed which is not that hard to do and use a shooting stick for the high powered rifles. That has been my approach for over 5 years now. On the other hand, if i were facing a grizzly and needed to use my left hand, I don't believe I have any problem in that type of situation. After all, the extremities are one of the first things to go in a bear attack and slicing through my fistula would easily be a fatal wound. The answer to your question really depends on the situation but with a wrist fistula, I would NOT take any chances whatsoever.

Good shooting and keep your fistula healthy. 

God bless,

Peter

P.S. be careful of all the lead components of primers and bullets. Wash your hands after any range use and avoid indoor ranges for the preferred out door ranges where you get less noise and lead exposure.

[jbeany]

Hmmm, hadn't thought about trying it one-handed - but then I rarely fired anything heavy - no need when I was just target shooting for fun.

You need to connect locally with someone who knows as much as possible about lessening recoil, too.  The grip on the weapon should fit you perfectly.  Gripping the weapon can be done with a number of different forms, too.  Find an instructor who can help you learn a technique which offers you the most protection to your fistula.  Get the smallest caliber gun that you feel will work for your personal needs.  Solid metal (ie, older) handguns have less recoil than newer, lighter ones.  There are also several kinds of recoil reducers available that can be added to your handgun to help absorb shock.

[Willis]

I'm thinking about buying a handgun BUT... in order to become proficient with one you must practice, practice, practice (as with anything else).  I'm wondering whether the recoil would be damaging to my fistula, because if that's the case then a handgun is out altogether. My fistula is in my left wrist and I am right-handed, so the left hand would really only be for support; it SHOULDN'T hurt my fistula, but I just don't know.

Any gun owners out there? I just don't know who else to ask; I'm certain my neph will be clueless.

If you shoot right-handed there should be NO stress or pressure on your left arm (at least not any more than squeezing the ball they TELL you to do for exercise). Your left hand is merely a cradle to steady the shooting hand. Even a more powered weapon like a .357 magnum will see the muzzle jump, but if you are using proper form the lower (left) just goes along for the ride and doesn't take any of the energy which is directed backward and upward along your right arm.

I have fired 100,000s of rounds from small arms, to skeet and trap shotguns, to assault rifles and machine-guns in the Army. Now most of that was pre-fistula of course, but I don't ever remember EVER, EVER, EVER having any stress or pain in my let arm. (Right arm and/or shoulder for sure though!)

If this is your first venture into handguns though I would start small. You didn't say for sure what your purpose was for getting a weapon. If just for fun, the safe route would be to stick to something small bore, i.e., .22 cal. But if you are thinking personal protection, I'd say start with a .380 automatic (sometimes known as a 9mm short). These are quite small and have low recoil and are easily concealable (permit required of course). After awhile you could graduate to a full 9mm such as a Glock and actually find out that sometimes a weapon that is just a little heavier has LESS recoil even with more power (simple physics).

I do agree that indoor ranges have a high degree of not only NOISE but usually contaminated air. Most ranges have huge fans and filtration systems running to help. Still not a place for kids or pregnant women. Go outdoors of possible. To protect your fistula you can simply wear some comfortable long sleeves and then make sure to shower well afterwards. As a general rule, automatics (i.e., those with magazine clips) are going to have less recoil and also shoot cleaner than revolvers. The design of automatics absorbs most of the recoil into a spring mechanism of some sort to use for reloading the next round. If you're a beginner, I'd stay away from revolvers at first--they can get your hands pretty dirty and they produce a lot more recoil generally.

There are exceptions and details to argue about everything I've said here, so if you're a gun enthusiast please just bear with my attempt to keep things as simple as possible!

 

[kporter85db]

I have a concealed weapons permit and have carried everyday for the last couple years. I don't have a fistula(I just started Peritoneal Dialysis) but, properly held, I wouldn't think the offhand takes that much of the recoil.

I would definitely heed the others' warnings about indoor ranges and lead contamination. In fact, I don't even go to indoor ranges anymore.

[Riki]

I don't think guns mix with anything, but that's just my opinion

[Desert Dancer]

Wow! Thanks, everyone, for your replies; it was more than I'd hoped for.

Regarding the indoor ranges and lead contamination: is that just a general sort of warning or is it fistula-specific? I'm pretty sure the range I'm planning on going to is indoor-only (besides which, there's no way I'd go to an outdoor range in 110-degree weather; it'd have to wait till autumn).  If it's fistula-specific, would covering it with gauze and then a taped-off sleeve work?

[Willis]

Wow! Thanks, everyone, for your replies; it was more than I'd hoped for.

Regarding the indoor ranges and lead contamination: is that just a general sort of warning or is it fistula-specific? I'm pretty sure the range I'm planning on going to is indoor-only (besides which, there's no way I'd go to an outdoor range in 110-degree weather; it'd have to wait till autumn).  If it's fistula-specific, would covering it with gauze and then a taped-off sleeve work?

It really depends on the range itself. In some states the ranges are closely monitored by OSHA (or state equivalent). If the range is fairly new and up to modern standards then the risk is probably minimal. There would probably be significantly more lead-exposure risk from reloading your own ammo than from the range itself. But these ranges are going to cost more to use of course. Just buy the ammo off the shelf and you'll have almost no chance of lead exposure.

If you are really worried about lead-exposure (as opposed to recoil shock effects), then you can use fully jacketed ammo. That is ammo that encases the lead bullet in brass alloy. If shooting, say, at a skeet range with a shotgun, you can easily find steel or other non-lead ammo. This will cost more and some ranges restrict its use because steel shot is not as dense as lead shot and may travel farther than a range's limits. In many states however, lead shot is prohibited when hunting.

As a final note that most new gun owners don't think about, is that you must learn how to clean your weapon, no matter what kind it is. Shotguns are the easiest to clean and mostly just gunpowder residue. Rifles and pistols by nature will "scour" off lead particles with every shot as they pass through the grooves and lands in the barrel. And revolvers will be the worst in that regard.

So I go back to my recommendation of a light automatic handgun (such as a .380) to begin with. Even good ones are fairly inexpensive and ammo is inexpensive too. They have little recoil and are easy to clean. Get lessons if you are new to this and find an outdoor range if the thought of inhaling gunsmoke indoors might bother you. Most good outdoor ranges have overhead cover to keep you out of the sun.

Personally, I shoot all the time indoors and out and don't even really think about it. Just use common sense and wear GOOD hearing protection.

 
 

[woodsman]

I have a CCW and carry often, i carry a lcp .380 and have no issues i just use my right hand!!!

[Dannyboy]

I don't know your over-all build or arm/hand strength, but another thing to keep in mind if you go to a semi-automatic,  is the need to "tap and rack" with your less dominant hand when/if the gun jams.   Also, there is the act of loading a fresh magazine, with sufficient force to get it seated properly, again with your left hand in your case.

I hesitate to stipulate that these moves won't be an issue for you personally.    Just mentioning them as additional actions that are required with a semi-auto.  And the above items apply, even if you get really good shooting with one hand (i.e. not utilizing a two handed grip of any kind), you must be prepared to clear jams, and reload, which will require your left hand.

Of course, a gun dealer/shop can show you all the physical moves that you need to be able to make with a semi-automatic hand gun, and so can judge for yourself this aspect of shooting (as compared to only considering recoil)

---Dan

[kporter85db]

Please do your own research on the lead issue.

When you shoot(and subsequently clean) a gun with lead bullets there will be lead deposited on your hands, at least, possibly on your forearms too. If ingested in sufficient quantities this can cause lead poisoning. It's not a huge issue as long as some basic safety practices are followed such as washing your hands thoroughly after shooting and before, say, eating a sandwich.

I don't know the implications of this when being stuck with needles for HD and it probably isn't a huge issue as long as standard sanitary issues are followed. It's just good practice to be informed on these matters.

BTW-A lot of ranges will let you rent guns so you can try a certain caliber or model before you commit to purchasing it.

[billybags]

Living in the UK, it just scares me when I read about the gun laws in America. Do you all carry guns and if so, what for? This to you is probably a stupid question. Why do you all want to carry guns?

[Hemodoc]

The best way to answer that question is American zombie movies vs European zombie movies. Sounds silly, but my wife got a German zombie movie with English subtitles. The poor folks in this movie being in Europe had NO weapons against the zombies and couldn't defend themselves against Zombies. Sadly, almost all of them died.

Here in America, if the Zombies come, the Americans will win.

Sad that you are asking this question from the UK which gave America the English Common Law on which the majority of our freedoms is based. One of these freedoms is the right to Keep and Bear Arms for our own personal protection and other reasons. If you look at the data from those states with liberal gun laws and Concealed Carry Permits that are "Shall Issue." In other words, if you are a law abiding, upright citizen, that state WILL issue a CCW permit if you have no adverse history.  Blackstone's commentaries on the common law spells out this right to self defense that Europe and the UK have not taken away. Sadly, the nation that gave us the common law no longer recognizes this right.

Only about 1-2% of Americans have CCW permits, but in those states where they are shall issue, crime rates improve. There are many instances of preventing crime by targeted victims who instead protect themselves, and ultimately society in general, most often without firing a single shot.

Unfortunately, the bad guys don't follow the laws including the many gun laws in America. On the other hand, the vast majority of CCW holders in America are never involved in a crime with some unfortunate noted exceptions.  In addition, most of the states where people carry also have vast wilderness areas filled with creatures with fangs and claws. In the last year, the US congress has even recognized the right to carry firearms in the National Parks for personal defense against criminals and animals with large claws. I don't believe the UK has any large predators left, but that is not true at all with America where we still have a lot of wild land. In such, carrying firearms is an ingrained right and an ingrained part of our culture. 

Us American's look upon the UK's and Europe's abandonment of gun rights as a big minus since paradoxically, our gun rights come directly from English Common Law:

The historical link between the English Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment, which both codify an existing right and do not create a new one, has been acknowledged by the U.S. Supreme Court.[14][15]

The English Bill of Rights includes the proviso that arms must be as "allowed by law." This has been the case before and after the passage of the Bill. While it did not override earlier restrictions on the ownership of guns for hunting, it was written to preserve the hunting rights of the landed aristocracy and is subject to the parliamentary right to implicitly or explicitly repeal earlier enactments.[16] There is some difference of opinion as to how revolutionary the events of 1688-89 actually were, and several commentators make the point that the provisions of the English Bill of Rights did not represent new laws, but rather stated existing rights. Mark Thompson wrote that, apart from determining the succession, the English Bill of Rights did "little more than set forth certain points of existing laws and simply secured to Englishmen the rights of which they were already posessed [sic]."[17] Before and after the English Bill of Rights, the government could always disarm any individual or class of individuals it considered dangerous to the peace of the realm.[18] In 1765, William Blackstone wrote the Commentaries on the Laws of England describing the right to have arms in England during the 18th century as a natural right of the subject that was "also declared" in the English Bill of Rights.[19][20]

The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute I W. & M. st.2. c.2. and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation, when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.[21][/i]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

[jbeany]

Living in the UK, it just scares me when I read about the gun laws in America. Do you all carry guns and if so, what for? This to you is probably a stupid question. Why do you all want to carry guns?

We don't all carry them.  Even those with permits don't use them all the time. 

A lot of those who do have them live in a rural area like I used to live in.  Wild boar have become rampant.  Unlike a wild bear - they don't scare off with loud noises.  If you spend a lot of time in the woods, carrying a handgun is an excellent safety measure. It's always holstered to you and close at hand.
We are also a county founded by pioneers.  Hunting wild game is a long standing tradition.  I know plenty of people who hunt, but only with rifle or shot gun, and have never fired a hand gun in their lives.

We don't all want to carry guns - but so far, the majority of us want the right to do so if we wish to.

[Willis]

Living in the UK, it just scares me when I read about the gun laws in America. Do you all carry guns and if so, what for? This to you is probably a stupid question. Why do you all want to carry guns?

Another aspect is simply the sporting use of guns. A lot of people just like the challenge of various forms of target shooting. I for one have a custom-fitted shotgun for shooting games like skeet, trap, and sporting clays. These are all popular sports in the UK as well and the sporting clays world champion for many years running is the UK's George Digweed. Clay shooting is a very popular sport in your country!

 

[Desert Dancer]

Living in the UK, it just scares me when I read about the gun laws in America. Do you all carry guns and if so, what for? This to you is probably a stupid question. Why do you all want to carry guns?

billybags, Andy and I have struggled with the question of gun ownership for YEARS and it's not a decision we made lightly. We've gone round and round the moral and philosophical aspects of gun ownership ad infinitum. Myself, I've never even held a gun before, much less fired one; it's always been a foreign world to me. However, I've always firmly believed in our RIGHT to own a firearm even though I've never exercised that right myself.

There are as many reasons for owning guns as there are gun owners and several people have given you excellent responses already. My reason boils down to this: when SECONDS count, the police are only MINUTES away. I think I have the obligation to protect myself and my family in the best way possible. Violent home invasions are not unheard-of here and if I were home alone - and dialyzing, no less - I would be a sitting duck. Oftentimes, too, I have worked late at night and had a long, lonely walk to my car; a gun would level the playing field between myself and any would-be attacker. Others have mentioned the large predators we have here and - as Andy and I like to go camping - I have no desire to face down a cougar with nothing but a smile.

Then, of course, there are the zombies. 

[billybags]

OK, Point taken.  If we had guns where I live, I would be stepping over dead bodies all the way to the shops . Lol

[Riki]

I'm Canadian.  Guns scare me, to the point that I have nightmares about them. I've never held a gun, and the only ones I've ever seen are the rifles that my uncles use for hunting.

I don't really see a point for hand guns.  They're not practical for hunting really.  I don't think that it's safe to keep a hand gun in the house.  If I was to have one, I'd have to leave it unloaded and/or locked up somewhere because my young nephews would probably get a hold of it and one would shoot the other if it were loaded.  So, in this case, keeping it for protection would be impractical as well.

My mother has a stick at the side of her bed.  It's a light stick, but it has a heavy, solid knot on the end of it.  If any intruder was to come into her room, it's quick to get to.  If she swung it with enough force, she could easily kill somebody with it.  I feel more at ease with that, than a gun.

Again, that's only my opinion.  I would never hinder anyone who wanted to legaly buy a gun, as long as they know how to use it, and how to store it, to keep it away from small hands