Cramps pre-ESRD

[Deanne]

Can cramps be a sign of either high or low potassium? I know they're a sign of high potassium, but can they also be a sign of low potassium? Mine potassium was over 600, then dropped to 350 when my neph cut my lisinopril. I'm not sure where it is now -- waiting to hear my latest lab results. I've been having some leg cramps again and the one last evening was pretty bad. I was sitting on the floor in front of the TV (the dogs were hogging the couch) and it hit from my toes to my knee. I couldn't even push my foot down by pushing on it with my hands. I had to wait it out for about 10 minutes before I could move at all. High potassium? Low potassium? Independent of potassium level? Any ideas?

[KICKSTART]

Im not sure cramps are associated with potassium , as its more heart related. Racing heart , weak legs and can bring on a heart attack. Cramps are usually more fluid related either dehydration or pulling off fluid too fast. Are you on water tablets ? they can do that .

[paris]

Deanne, I had them often but now try to remember to keep hydrated and they are much better.  Use to wake me up and I just wanted to cry they hurt so much.   Too high a dose of water pills could cause the problem, also.

[monrein]

Cramps are most definitely associated with potassium levels, especially low levels.  Calcium and magnesium deficiencies can also cause them as can dehydration. The heart is of course a big strong muscle and that's why it is affected by potassium levels which can even cause it to stop beating.
I think I'd try to get some blood work to check these elecrolytes Deanne.  BP meds can also leach out potassium. 

Don't know what else to suggest.

[Zach]

Cramps are most definitely associated with potassium levels, especially low levels.  Calcium and magnesium deficiencies can also cause them as can dehydration.

Excellent post, monrein!

[Deanne]

Thanks! I had blood tests done a couple of days ago. I should be able to call my neph for the results today. I'm on a diuretic and I know that can drop my potassium level. However, I was on lisinopril, which increased my potassium. For a while they offset each other, then my potassium went too high again, as did my creatinine, so my neph took me off lisinopril, which dropped my potassium too low. She put me back on a low dose of lisinopril and had me re-tested. This is the lab report I need to call in to get. I don't know right now if lisinopril raised my potassium too much again (I might be intolerant to it now) or if the diuretic is keeping it too low.

I hadn't thought about dehydration as a possible cause. That might be an option, too. It wasn't very hot out yesterday so I didn't drink as much water.

I didn't know about calcium and magnesium as causes -- thanks for that extra information! My neph did tell me to stop taking calcium for now. My last lab tests looked strange to her, so she asked me to stop taking it to see what happened. For the first time, my PTH was high, but my vit D level was also high. She didn't understand why they would both be high at the same time.

[tyefly]

   I too often get cramps pre- ESRD..  but I always get cramps in my upper leg muscels......  they last for 10 to 15 minutes and seem like I usually get those when I have been taking my water pills.....   legs get sore and then no water pills and then more water and then more leg cramps..... never ending story...........

[Deanne]

Mine are usually in my feet and especially my ankles -- the smaller muscles, I guess. Interesting how different people have them in different muscle groups.

[Zach]

Mine are usually in my feet and especially my ankles -- the smaller muscles, I guess. Interesting how different people have them in different muscle groups.

Have you tried drinking some tonic water?  The quinine sometimes helps with cramps.

[Deanne]

I used to and I think it did help. I guess I need to get some again. Thanks for the reminder!

[Sunny]

Deanne, I get those terrible cramps in my feet too and I am pre-dialysis. Plus sometimes my right foot arch gets a very painful electrical -type sensation shooting through it which at times will bring me to tears of agony. My PTH levels have been a little high and my D levels low. The Nephrologist told me to try extra D which I've only tried for a few weeks and it made NO difference so far. She tells me it may be uremic neuropathy,but it seems different than neuropathy. I guess I better double check my potassium levels. Let us know what happens.

[Deanne]

Last night was another crampful night. grrrr! I'm going to stop for some tonic water on my way home from work today.

[Sunny]

Maybe you can add just a splash of gin to that tonic water?

[Deanne]

 

Great idea! I wouldn't care or even notice if the cramps hit again.

[kelliOR]

Deanne, are you training again for the Portland City Marathon?

kelli

[paul.karen]

Deanne i am far from a professional at this but my Neph gave me Hectoral to ease my  cramps.  He said it was due to the body pulling bone marror from my bones due to loss of (i think potassium).  I take 3 milligrams a week and it helped while i was pre-dialysis.  Thsoe were the WORST cramps i have had in my life.  Actualy felt like it was my bones in my shins cramping although i think that isnt possable?
Im sure there are other pills besides hectoral but you should look into someting along those lines.  I know it saved me many sleepless nights orf pure torture.

Know my PD machine seems to be casuing me cramps   bad but not nearly as painful.

Zach or anyone else.  How long does the tonic water take to work?  Do you drink it at the sings of cramping or just daily to prevent cramping.
Is there any FAST way of getting rid of cramps once they start?

[Deanne]

Kelli! Long time, no talk! And what a great memory you have!!!!! Nope, not doing the marathon. I bought a house in the 'burbs about two years ago, so my "free" time is spent pulling weeds and watering flowers these days.

Paul.Karen, it's the quinine in tonic water that helps prevent the cramps. I drank a can of it yesterday night after work and didn't have any cramps last night. I plan to drink a can every evening again for a while. I did that in the past when I had cramps and it helped a lot. As far as what to do during them, I have a friend who told me to eat a spoonful of mustard if I get one. I figured maybe that worked because you're in such a rush to reach the bathroom before puking that you forget the cramp. Keep in mind though, this is pre-ESRD. The cramps aren't from pulling off fluid during dialysis.

[Zach]

Is there any FAST way of getting rid of cramps once they start?

A hot compress and massage.

 

[kelliOR]

Kelli! Long time, no talk! And what a great memory you have!!!!! Nope, not doing the marathon. I bought a house in the 'burbs about two years ago, so my "free" time is spent pulling weeds and watering flowers these days.

Hey !   Good for you...AND your dogs !   I'll get in touch with you next time I head over the mountains........would love to catch up!   
kelli

[bountyhunter_ga]

 Hello, I have the same cramps, only on dialysis days however.

My potassium level is fine now, but they pull so much out of me, I had them cut back a little bit on the machine  and it works.

It always started around the last 30 minuets of treatment. and then later at home when I get into bed  you know when you twitch your food in the wrong direction it all goes to hell, its all I can do to get off the covers and put some weight on the foot.

My potassium level was high and it did the same thing to me. Now its under control and still does the same thing thing. I've noticed I had put on a little weight not much only 3-4 lbs but they didn't change my dry weight.

Weight is very important so don't let it get out of control just because you may start feeling better one week. Stick with a diet that works, so the rest of the numbers will work.  Tks,

[Restorer]

I've always been able to bend my foot/leg/muscle in the opposite direction (stretching out the cramping muscle) and that kept it from hurting, and the cramp goes away in a few seconds. At least, when I'm awake. The only time I have really painful cramps is when stretching the muscle doesn't do anything - because I'm only dreaming of stretching it, yet the pain of the cramps translates through to my dreams. So there I am in my dream, standing on the street, or in a mall, or something, trying to stretch my leg and it's not doing anything.