State's pee plan allows no excuses

[okarol]

State's pee plan allows no excuses
Christine Kellett | December 7, 2008 - 6:27AM

CAMPERS and expectant mothers who are ''caught short'' and swimmers urinating in the surf will risk automatic fines under new laws governing public nuisance in Queensland.

Legal experts say the legislation, which State Parliament passed last week, is unjust and unworkable and may even constitute discrimination against people with certain medical conditions, including kidney and prostate problems.

The homeless, elderly or bushwalkers caught short off the beaten track could also be slapped with a fine.

The reforms to the Summary Offences Act did not include a ''reasonable excuse'' provision, meaning those receiving a $100 public urination ticket had no legal recourse, Queensland University of Technology senior law lecturer Alastair MacAdam said.

''A public place is defined in the dictionary to the Summary Offences Act  to mean a place open to or used by the public, whether or not on the payment of a fee,'' Mr MacAdam said.

''A fine of $200 may well result in disadvantaged people ending up in jail for answering the call of nature in a discreet way.

''But the ramifications are far ranging. Where does a person travelling, say, 200 kilometres west of Roma, who pulls on to the side of the road and urinates discreetly stand? Or the person who goes fishing in a dinghy and urinates in a container or over the side?

''Technically, swimmers who urinate in the ocean could be booked.''

The new laws will be on trial for 12 months from January 1, first in the South Brisbane and Townsville police districts.

Automatic fines for public nuisance offences range up to $300 and can be issued on the spot by police for offensive or disorderly behaviour, disobeying police directions and urinating in public.

The move follows Crime and Misconduct Commission recommendations.

The State Government and defence solicitors have championed it as a way to stop petty offenders clogging up the court system.

Twenty-two thousand public nuisance crimes were recorded  in Queensland last year.

Brisbane criminal defence lawyer Jim Coburn, of city firm Ryan and Bosscher, said the fines would work no differently than parking or speeding tickets and could be appealed against in court.

He said the automatic penalties standardised punishment for petty crimes and removed the ''lottery-like situation'' of magistrates deciding the fate of an offender on a ''whim''.

An instant fine for nuisance offences was similar to the system used for traffic tickets, Mr Coburn said.

''We all have the ability to appeal them if we want to mount a defence and these are no different,'' he said.

''The public's rights are not compromised, but instant fines should see the court system freed up and some consistency in penalties.''

However, Mr MacAdam said the fines would place a ``black mark'' against the name of recipients, whether they deserved it or not.

''This could have adverse consequences for the many `fit and proper person tests' which are contained in Queensland legislation relating to the obtaining of various licences and professional qualifications.''

Police Minister Judy Spence said criminal convictions would not be recorded against those who received the fines.

She insisted police would use common sense.

''Police use their discretion before issuing tickets every day,'' Ms Spence said.

''Police will not deliberately aggravate people with prostate and kidney problems or who are pregnant by issuing them tickets when they are in difficult and embarrassing situations.''

However, she ruled out an amendment to the legislation to include a reasonable-excuse provision.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/states-pee-plan-allows-no-excuses/2008/12/07/1228584616747.html

[Chris]

Never heard the term "caught short"

The way this sounds, it could really screw up your life with their fit and proper person tests, but then say criminal convictions would not be recorded against those who received the fines.

But your still have that "black mark" so it is a no win situation.

What if more people go to court fighting this than freeing up the courts.
That area is 

[kitkatz]

If I ever get a kidney and go back to peeing again, I will pee in the bushes, on the highway, in the ocean,in the snow, most everywhere I could think of.  Oh think of the trouble I would be in!