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Author Topic: Brexit to go?  (Read 9118 times)
MooseMom
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« Reply #125 on: March 31, 2019, 10:53:49 AM »

OK.

The UK is well and truly broken no matter what happens.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 11:48:11 AM by MooseMom » Logged

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cassandra
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« Reply #126 on: March 31, 2019, 10:41:16 PM »


..... that I personally have a very low opinion of Trump, but even I agree that we would have been better off if we had Trump negotiating Brexit.
.....



Thatís pushing it a bit. Yes sheís obviously not capable of listening, negotiating, compromising etc. But itís the Conservative party thatís to blame for the referendum in the first place, Cameron to hold it and run away. And to be honest, the UK people for voting in the conservatives (and DUP)
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
Paul
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« Reply #127 on: April 01, 2019, 11:31:15 AM »

Thatís pushing it a bit.

I don't agree. In "peace time" she would no doubt make a better country leader than Trump, but her negotiations with the EU and with her own party were lame. Trump would have made a much better job of negotiating both in Europe and in Westminster. And I bet Trump would not have left everything to the last minute.
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MooseMom
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« Reply #128 on: April 01, 2019, 11:56:30 AM »

Trump would have made a much better job of negotiating both in Europe and in Westminster. And I bet Trump would not have left everything to the last minute.

What on Earth makes you think this?  What has he actually "negotiated"?  He singlehandedly shut down the United States' Government for almost a month because Congress wouldn't give him all of the money he wanted for his wall, despite the fact that at least on 2 different occasions, Congress presented him a bi-laterally agreed appropriations bill calling for increased funding for border protection.  But because the proposed bill did not include as much money as he wanted specifically for the wall, he literally shut down the government.  There were Coast Guard families that had to go to food banks as a result of this brilliant piece of "negotiation".

He does not negotiate.  He demands.  And this is not necessarily a criticism.  It's just the way he is, and it for this reason that he enjoys the support of his like-minded base.  He sees negotiation as a weakness.

I'm sure there are many people who could have done a better job than May, but Trump is just not one of those.
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« Reply #129 on: April 01, 2019, 12:16:53 PM »


Trump has got some stuff done while in office.

May has got bugger all done as far as Brexit is concerned, her biggest achievement was to call an unnecessary election then run a campaign that reduced her party from a safe majority to an unsafe minority that has to rely on other parties to prop it up.

Trump has got some things past the Senate.

Brexit wise May has got nothing past in Westminster, and nothing even past her own party.

Trump has had some (limited) success with foreign leaders.

Most/all world leaders consider May incompetent, all European leaders wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire.

To cap it all, the majority of Brits consider Trump to be a useless waste of oxygen, yet most of these people would gladly swap May for Trump if it were possible (probably send him back after Brexit is resolved though).

Also, Trump's "approval rating" amongst Americans is a hell of a lot higher than May's "approval rating" amongst the British.


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MooseMom
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« Reply #130 on: April 01, 2019, 02:31:32 PM »

Paul, I'm not disagreeing with you about Theresa May.  But MPs on their own are making a right dog's dinner out of things.

While Theresa May is surely imcompetent, at least the people surrounding her campaign haven't been indicted or imprisoned or investigated by the British equivalent of a special counsel.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 02:35:13 PM by MooseMom » Logged

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MooseMom
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« Reply #131 on: April 01, 2019, 03:24:12 PM »

Now that MPs have voted "no" on all four options in today's indicative vote, how do you all think this will end up?  Any guesses?
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« Reply #132 on: April 01, 2019, 04:08:24 PM »


While Theresa May is surely imcompetent, at least the people surrounding her campaign haven't been indicted or imprisoned or investigated by the British equivalent of a special counsel.

That I'll give you. Stupid and useless but not criminal (well unless you came over on the Windrush, then you might argue that point).

Now that MPs have voted "no" on all four options in today's indicative vote, how do you all think this will end up?  Any guesses?

Up a certain creek without a paddle.

I'm hoping it will mean a second referendum, but I'm fearing "no deal Brexit".

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cassandra
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« Reply #133 on: April 03, 2019, 03:26:52 AM »

I think  :angel;  the only majority compromise in parliament :angel;  will have a customs union in. UK will be in EP elections, general elections will have to follow. So there could be Brexit, stay in Customs Union incl. freedom of movement, but no say for UK in EU/EC and the UK staying a net contributor to the EU.


I do hope Nigel Farage feels This is Great Britain again
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
Paul
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« Reply #134 on: April 03, 2019, 11:37:07 AM »

I think  :angel;  the only majority compromise in parliament :angel;  will have a customs union in. UK will be in EP elections, general elections will have to follow. So there could be Brexit, stay in Customs Union incl. freedom of movement, but no say for UK in EU/EC and the UK staying a net contributor to the EU.


I do hope Nigel Farage feels This is Great Britain again

If we get what you suggest, Nigel Farage will definitely NOT feel that this is Great Britain again! He has stated many times that remaining in the customs union would be a betrayal of those people who voted out. Oh and Reese-Mogg has threatened "civil unrest" if we remain in the customs union.

However, now that May is talking to Corbin, we will probably get a custom's union, as that is one of his "red lines". And although we will not have free movement, it appears probable that the EU will allow us visaless travel (last I heard was that they were voting on this and likely to agree - after all, they want our Tourist euros).

Your last suggestion ("no say for UK in EU/EC and the UK staying a net contributor to the EU") is pretty much going to happen unless we withdraw Article 50.

If this is how it pans out, then IMHO it is the best of a bad lot of choices. Other than withdrawing Article 50 (which is my prefered option) I doubt we could do any better.



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cassandra
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« Reply #135 on: April 04, 2019, 12:39:45 PM »

O I So want the UK to withdraw article 50


   :bow;


But that can only happen after the UK people have had their say. That is unlikely to happen, and Ūf it were to happen, it could verywell become even worse.
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I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left

1983 high proteinloss in urine, chemo, stroke,coma, dialysis
1984 double nephrectomy
1985 transplant from dad
1998 lost dads kidney, start PD
2003 peritineum burst, back to hemo
2012 start Nxstage home hemo
       still on waitinglist, still ok I think
MooseMom
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« Reply #136 on: July 27, 2019, 02:25:24 PM »

Oh! Oh! Oh!  It's BoJo!

What do you all think of him and his new cabinet?  What do you think will happen next?  No-deal Brexit???????    :o
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Simon Dog
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« Reply #137 on: July 27, 2019, 05:20:24 PM »

Quote
I'm hoping it will mean a second referendum, but I'm fearing "no deal Brexit".
Would the pro-Brexit people get a second referendum if the vote had not gone there way?   The problem here is that a second referendum smacks of "we will vote again since you silly people did not vote correctly the first time".
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MooseMom
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« Reply #138 on: July 27, 2019, 07:40:30 PM »

Simon Dog, Boris Johnson has created a cabinet filled with ardent Brexiteers, so the only way there would be a second referendum is if a general election were called and Labour was voted in.  A general election would follow a vote of no-confidence in the PM, and that might indeed happen should Johnson and his cabinet continue on the path of a no-deal ("hard") Brexit. 

There are a few problems with that.  Labour's leader, Jeremy Corbyn, isn't generally seen as suitable PM material.  Also, it is unclear whether Labour would actually run on the prospect of having a second referendum.  Then again, many people feel the same way about Boris Johnson.

It is worth knowing that Boris Johnson was not elected PM by the British people, rather, he was voted in by members of the Conservative Party which represents 0.1% of the British electorate.  So, it's hard to guess what would happen in a general election, particularly if a no-deal Brexit was the only kind of Brexit on the table.  The EU is adamant that they will not renegotiate.

As of right now, the Tories have a majority of 3 seats in Parliament, and that may be reduced next week after a by-election in one part of the country.

The Tories' majority depends upon the coalition that Theresa May built with the DUP, the Democratic Unionist Party of Northern Ireland.  I don't know how the new PM will deal with the Irish "backstop".

Furthermore, it is a distinct possibility that Scotland, in which every region voted Remain, may hold another independence referendum. 

So, all of the "silly people who did not vote correctly the first time" may find themselves the cause of the breakup of the United Kingdom.  I don't think they'd care, though, but I'm not sure Boris Johnson, or any PM, would like to be remembered in the annals of history as being the PM in power when that happened.
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« Reply #139 on: September 14, 2019, 11:02:28 AM »

Brexit just seems like an unholy mess to me.  It felt so rushed.

I agree with Kristina; I don't know if it is ever going to happen.  And I KNOW that politicians on both sides were taken by surprise by the result.


... And just imagine : almost one and a half year later, after MooseMom mentioned this, and hard trying Prime-Ministers. well meaning cabinet ministers  and many well-meaning thoughts and frightening nightmares later (plus a few suicides "thrown in", committed by scared Continentals who made GB their home, but still kept their original Nationality/Passport), Brexit is still in the planning-stages ...  and no one has any idea where we are right now ... :waiting;
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« Reply #140 on: September 19, 2019, 11:22:05 AM »


Would the pro-Brexit people get a second referendum if the vote had not gone there way?

I know this is an old comment but I only just got an answer to it. That answer is "probably 'yes', but in a few years time." The same is true of Scotland, they had a referendum on remaining part of the UK only five years ago. The result was to remain in that union, but there is talk of a second "Scottish in/out the UK" referendum as soon as Brexit is sorted. (Which, if Brexit had run to the expected timetable would have been about three years after the first referendum, it is only because the government is making such a pigs ear out of Brexit that they have not had their second one yet.)

And anyway, if you insist that we must stick to the first referendum, that was in the 1970's and we voted "in" to Europe, if we cannot change our minds with a second referendum, then we have to remain in Europe.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 11:35:12 AM by Paul » Logged

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That's another fine TARDIS you got me into Stanley

« Reply #141 on: September 19, 2019, 11:30:49 AM »


no one has any idea where we are right now ... :waiting;

There was a gorgeous interview with David Cameron (the Prime Minister who started the referendum)  on the radio this morning. The interviewer (John Humphreys) introduced the interview by saying how much of a mess the thing had been and the dire straits we are in (as a country) because of it, and then started the interview by saying "...And the man responsible for this mess is sitting across the table from me now."

I almost felt sorry for Cameron (almost, not quite, he was a lousy Prime Minister, happy to screw the country over to further his career, and the sad part is that the referendum was not his worst policy, he was quite happy to bring in laws that will make rape more likely in Britain, just to get a few extra votes).

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