I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Off-Topic => Off-Topic: Talk about anything you want. => Topic started by: hyperlite on June 06, 2006, 08:48:27 PM

Title: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 06, 2006, 08:48:27 PM
I was watching the Daily Show with John Stewart today and he was talking about George Bush's idea to ban gay marriages by amending the constitution. Wow. I still can't believe that in this day and age we can be so narrow-minded. How is allowing Gay's to get married, a problem? Its not going to stop them from being gay. Its not going to affect our marriages. So how is it a problem? I see no difference between saying that gays shouldn't be married, and saying that Blacks should not get married. Or even low-income couples should not be married. The second and third statements sound ridiculous, but why don't politicians find the first one as such? It really infuriates me that we live in a country that defines itself as being free, and allowing every citizen equal rights, yet this same country is trying to set up walls to divide the rights of it's citizens. If only we look back in history to learn from our mistakes, we would see that separating the rights of citizens will have very serious negative results. At one time women were not allowed to vote, in fact they weren't even defined as people, and anyone who thought otherwise was a "liberal idiot". We have overcome these, for a lack of a better word, crimes against humanity, hopefully we can overcome this one as well.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 06, 2006, 09:36:34 PM
I was watching the Daily Show with John Stewart today and he was talking about George Bush's idea to ban gay marriages by amending the constitution. Wow. I still can't believe that in this day and age we can be so narrow-minded. How is allowing Gay's to get married, a problem? Its not going to stop them from being gay. Its not going to affect our marriages. So how is it a problem? I see no difference between saying that gays shouldn't be married, and saying that Blacks should not get married. Or even low-income couples should not be married. The second and third statements sound ridiculous, but why don't politicians find the first one as such? It really infuriates me that we live in a country that defines itself as being free, and allowing every citizen equal rights, yet this same country is trying to set up walls to divide the rights of it's citizens. If only we look back in history to learn from our mistakes, we would see that separating the rights of citizens will have very serious negative results. At one time women were not allowed to vote, in fact they weren't even defined as people, and anyone who thought otherwise was a "liberal idiot". We have overcome these, for a lack of a better word, crimes against humanity, hopefully we can overcome this one as well.

I thought you lived in Canada, if not fix your profile  >:(




 ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Gus on June 07, 2006, 12:28:17 AM
Its a delicate issue but here's my take.........

Why is polygamy outlawed? There has to be a reason for that.......the same question arises with gay marriages.....why is it beeing banned? What kinda of implications does Polygamy and gay marriages have on our society?

However, if I look at the books of history and religion it states that marriage is the union of a man and woman. Though regardless whether the laws are there people are doing whatever they wish.

What do you think? Should gay marriages be a norm? Why? If you oppose gay marriages why are you against it? How do you define marriage? What is marriage to you?
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 07, 2006, 05:47:34 AM
Polygamy is a completely different issue. Homosexuality is not a choice. Saying that I want to have 10 wives is. Gus you asked what kind of implications does polygamy and gay marriages have on our society. Well polygamy can have a very negative impact. Many times the wives of polygamists are neglected and abused. There are also situations, such as the current one involving an extremist who is on the run from authorities (I can't remember his name...), where young girls have been "given" to men as presents. However gay marriages have no implications on our society, except maybe positive ones. Such as we live in society that accepts the rights of all citizens. And yes if you look in the Bible it might say marriage is the union between a man and a woman ( I doubt it actually says it that directly), but there are a million other things in the Bible. Many of which we do not right into the constitution, and quite rightly, seeing as how there are millions of citizens that live in the USA that are not christian. So why should they have to follow christian rules? It says in the Bible that people should wait until marriage to have sex. Why not put that in the constitution? We need to separate the Church from the State, because in today's society, one church does not govern an entire nation....

Heres how I would define marriage: The union of two adults.
Marriage to me is the creation of a family by bringing two people who are in love, together.

And Epoman, yes I'm from Canada, I'm just talking from a "North American" point of view...
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Len on June 07, 2006, 06:02:17 AM
Good posts Hyper...
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Sluff on June 07, 2006, 06:12:40 AM
I'm not threatened by gay marriage or gay people in general. As long as they keep it to themselves, I would rather see two people that love eachother regardless of their sex, than to see people full of hate for oneanother. As for the religious aspect Christ died for our sins and loves us all.

I think we need to leave religion out of it though because we all sin, and we all have our own views (beliefs) on religion.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 07, 2006, 09:07:06 AM
I'm not threatened by gay marriage or gay people in general. As long as they keep it to themselves, I would rather see two people that love eachother regardless of their sex, than to see people full of hate for oneanother. As for the religious aspect Christ died for our sins and loves us all.

I think we need to leave religion out of it though because we all sin, and we all have our own views (beliefs) on religion.

What do you mean by "keep it to themselves"? Yes I agree that they should not be "jumping around waving it in the faces" of people who do not agree with it, however I dont think thats the case here. I think that these people want to get married to 1) allow them to have the same commitments that straight married couples have and 2) have the same rights that married couples have (ie tax benefits, health care coverage...etc).
 I also think it should be up to the individual churches to allow the marriage (if the couple wants to go through the church) or not. But by writing it into the constitution that gay marriage is illegal, then this doesnt give people the right to choose, and takes away their rights.

But yeah I completely agree with you that we need to separate this issue from religion, because there are two many religions out there and we can't please them all. Plus what about people who are not religious?
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Sara on June 07, 2006, 03:23:07 PM
I don't have a problem with legalizing their union, so they get equal protection as far as inheritance and right to make medical decisions, etc.  I think the major hang up is wording it as a "marriage."  I don't see why they don't just call it a civil union or whatever and be done with it.  Seems like they (the gay community) would get more accomplished by starting with that.

As far as homosexuality not being a choice, well, that's up for debate.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Rerun on June 07, 2006, 07:55:37 PM
I have a very good male friend who use to be gay.  Through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ he has been released from that sin.  It is wonderful to hear his testimony.  Many boys who do not bond with their father are always searching for same sex acceptance.  Same with a little girl.  If she doesn't bond with her mother or is pushed away by other women then she is always seeking same sex acceptance.  Kids that are molested also have issues that turn them towards "same sex" attraction.  Homosexuality is a choice.  God created us and there is NO proof that genetically you are born that way.  Just like ther is no proof of "global warming."

1 Corenthins 7 talks about "Marriage" and the way it ought to be.  But first God said it is better to stay single! (Amen to that)  ;D
Marriage is rough and you are held accountable. 

Yes, you are right, Any sexual immorality is a sin.  Homosexuality is no worse than Adultery, which is no worse than sex before marriage.

Marriage is a covenant under God.  God does NOT approve of Homosexuality why would we legalize it.  Next men will be wanting to marry sheep.  Up in Washington State they got caught screwing horses! 

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 07, 2006, 08:26:28 PM
I have a very good male friend who use to be gay.  Through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ he has been released from that sin.  It is wonderful to hear his testimony.  Many boys who do not bond with their father are always searching for same sex acceptance.  Same with a little girl.  If she doesn't bond with her mother or is pushed away by other women then she is always seeking same sex acceptance.  Kids that are molested also have issues that turn them towards "same sex" attraction.  Homosexuality is a choice.  God created us and there is NO proof that genetically you are born that way.  Just like ther is no proof of "global warming."

1 Corenthins 7 talks about "Marriage" and the way it ought to be.  But first God said it is better to stay single! (Amen to that)  ;D
Marriage is rough and you are held accountable. 

Yes, you are right, Any sexual immorality is a sin.  Homosexuality is no worse than Adultery, which is no worse than sex before marriage.

Marriage is a covenant under God.  God does NOT approve of Homosexuality why would we legalize it.  Next men will be wanting to marry sheep.  Up in Washington State they got caught screwing horses! 



Wow, I am blown away by this post. Absolutely blown away.

What struck me first after reading that, was your statement about there not being any proof for homosexuality being "genetic", but then you go on to say that God created us. Where's the proof of that? I hate to be the one to tell you this, but not everything in the Bible is factual. A woman was not made from a man's rib. And there IS proof of that.

To say that "next men will want to marry sheep" is completely ridiculous. We're talking about human rights here...and the freedom to choose.

Your statement about kids that are molested, end up being gay, well there are millions of gay people out there and i would bet a lot of money that the vast majority of them were not molested as children. And how do you know if God approves of homosexuality or not? Does he talk to you? has he told you this?

You can't use ONE religion to govern a country! Especially Christianity, seeing as how there are a hundred different forms of it. The protestant church does not prohibit safe-sex, yet the catholic church does.

And as for homosexuality not being a choice, its the same as how some men like women with big breasts, some dont. Some women like muscular men, some dont. The human brain is so complex and there is so much about it that we do not understand, that to say that "because there is no direct proof" of something (and I'm not an expert here...maybe they have found a "gay gene" or a "gay centre" in the brain), is ridiculous. At one point in time there was no proof that the world was round, but now we all know the truth.

The way you talk about homosexuals, you would think they all come from broken homes. This is not the case. The majority of homosexuals come from normal families like you and I.

You say "God does not approve of homosexuality, why would we legalize it". Wow. I'm sure "your God" does not approve of smoking, or drinking in excess, or masturbation, or believing in other gods, why dont we make these things illegal as well?

How does two gay people getting married affect you? It has no affect on me. I can still marry a woman.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Rerun on June 07, 2006, 08:43:23 PM
Ya know Hyper, all I can say is I hope I'm right about God and I hope You're right about God.  I hope we both get what we believe.

To say that "next men will want to marry sheep" is completely ridiculous. We're talking about human rights here...and the freedom to choose.

Leviticus 20:13-15 - If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.  They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked.  Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.

If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and your must kill the animal.

All I'm saying here is "it happens."  We as a society need to draw the line and Same Sex Marriage is just one step away from sex with animals.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 07, 2006, 11:02:57 PM
Grabs lawn chair and popcorn, getting ready to watch the fireworks.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: kitkatz on June 07, 2006, 11:05:32 PM
*Joining Epoman with my own lawn chair and popcorn*
Turns to Epoman: "This should be very interesting!"

Katherine
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 07, 2006, 11:07:02 PM
*Joining Epoman with my own lwan chair and popcorn*
Turns to Epoman: "This should be very interesting!"

Katherine

Indeed.  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 05:54:14 AM
First of all, to your statement about God (just to clarify), I do believe in God...I just don't believe in religion.

And 2nd of all, just because it says it in the Bible (a book written by a man) does not make it true! You're treating the Bible as if it is a law, and as if as though you dont follow it's direct orders God will strike you down. The Sixth commandment says "Thou shalt not kill", so according to your beliefs that "what the Bible says goes", how can we "put gays to death" if we shouldnt kill people?

You say we need to draw the line, well the line should be drawn AT gays getting married...not before it. There is a reason that "a man can't marry his mother" because of the possibility of having inbred children (one of the leading causes of hereditary diseases). It would be impossible to say "you can marry your mother but no sex". This makes sense!

If a man married an animal, the animal's rights have been violated. The animal had no choice in the matter.

We're talking about PEOPLE here...the fact that you are comparing two human beings to animals, sickens me.

Exodus 20 vs 3.

Enjoins that God must be known and acknowledged to be the only true God, and our God; and, to worship him and to make him known as he has been made known to us
Forbids not worshiping and glorifying the true God as God, and as our God; and forbids giving worship and glory to any other, which is due to him alone

so because it says in the Bible that we must worship the Christian God, should we therefore make it illegal to worship any other God??

The only reason people like you want to make gay marriages illegal, is because youre afraid that if they get married, then maybe God accepts them the way they are, and maybe you should to.

I wish people would open their eyes, think for themselves, and maybe be "released from the horrible sin" of bigotry.

Next thing I know, you'll try to tell me that the Apocalypse is coming and Jesus is coming back to Earth to save us all.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: RichnStacy on June 08, 2006, 09:33:40 AM
Hyperlite, might I remind you, you are the one that brought this subject up so you have to be prepared for the responses.  Not everyone is going to agree with you on this as you will see from my response!

When I saw the name of this thread, I thought, oh no, someone is fixing to open Pandora's box, and sure enough here we are.  I deliberately didn't respond, and had hoped no one else would either because this is a sticky subject matter at best, but since this debate has taken on a new direction I guess it is only right that I now weigh in.

Homosexuality is WRONG!  Plain and simple!  You can say anything you like about me being threatened by them, or being closed mind, or whatever else you would like to spew, but the fact still remains, and will always remain, that homosexuality is sick, and the ones that are engaged in this form of activity are sick individuals and need counseling.  Two grown men doing each other in the rectum.  That is just plain SICK!  I am not in favor of helping destroy what moral fiber we have left in this country by allowing queers to get married to each other.  What they need to do is go and get counseling and find out what drove them to another man and figure out a way to quit that gross behavior and rejoin the heterosexuals.

I am sure I have totally offended you with my response and I am truly sorry. But, as you, I have an opinion on this matter and, although we have  two different opinions, it doesn't mean they are any less important to us.  You see it one way, and I see it the other.  No disrespect intended towards you; this is just the way I feel, as you feel the other way.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 09:42:23 AM
hahaha just to be clear, I respect everyone's opinion...thats why I started the thread in the first place. I was obviously looking for a debate, and have thoroughly enjoyed this one!  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 09:55:03 AM
Homosexuality is WRONG!  Plain and simple!  You can say anything you like about me being threatened by them, or being closed mind, or whatever else you would like to spew, but the fact still remains, and will always remain, that homosexuality is sick, and the ones that are engaged in this form of activity are sick individuals and need counseling.  Two grown men doing each other in the rectum.  That is just plain SICK!  I am not in favor of helping destroy what moral fiber we have left in this country by allowing queers to get married to each other.  What they need to do is go and get counseling and find out what drove them to another man and figure out a way to quit that gross behavior and rejoin the heterosexuals.

You haven't offended me at all with this post, as I'm not gay. I agree with you, two men having anal sex sickens me, however it does not affect me whatsoever. I'm also sickened by an obese woman having sex with an old man covered in hair, but I don't think that it should be illegal! What two people do in their own bedroom is their own business, as long as it does not violate another person's human rights.

Just because two men decide to get married, does not throw their morals out the door. They aren't murderers or rapists. They don't steal. They don't harm others in any way whatsoever. Let them get married and mind your own business. "Turn the other cheek". For all I know, my neighboors could be into dressing up in leather and chaining each other to the bed. But from what I've seen of them, they are hard working honest people. People look down upon gays because they know what they are doing in the bedroom because of the superficiality of their relationship. You know what two who are in love are going to do. Its gross yeah I'll agree with you there, but it's their right. Just like a man would have the right to have sex with a one-eyed, bald, no-toothed obese woman.

haha this has been a pretty graphic post, and I'm considering not posting it...nah I'll post it.

But yeah my point:     What people do in their own bedrooms is their own business. If they are hard working citizens who do not harm others, whats the big deal. If you are afraid that your children will grow up to be gay, then tell them: "being gay is wrong. you will go to Hell if you're gay". You have the right to tell your children whatever you want. But don't try to stop another person from living their own lives if they do not harm you whatsoever. There are more pressing issues that are affecting our society's moral fibre, such as the increase in gun violence, unemployment and crime in general.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: RichnStacy on June 08, 2006, 10:48:28 AM
hyperlite wrote:
Quote
You haven't offended me at all with this post, as I'm not gay. I agree with you, two men having anal sex sickens me, however it does not affect me whatsoever. I'm also sickened by an obese woman having sex with an old man covered in hair, but I don't think that it should be illegal!

I have to admit, I was prepared for the fourth of July because I know how a subject like this has the potential of becoming very personal and explosive in nature.

I respect you, and I can see you point of view clearly.  I guess besides from the mental image that I have, which as you stated is none of my affairs, I can concede that what two grown adults do in the privacy of their own home is their busy only.

However that does not mean that I have to endorse their said behavior.  I also don't condone murder, rape, or bigamy, and I certainly wouldn't endorse any of them either.

As I stated, I respect your position and therefore I will leave it at previously stated.

Quote
There are more pressing issues that are affecting our society's moral fibre, such as the increase in gun violence, unemployment and crime in general.

This, we agree on. :)

Have a good one!
Richard
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Rerun on June 08, 2006, 11:35:43 AM
Exodus 20 vs 3.

Enjoins that God must be known and acknowledged to be the only true God, and our God; and, to worship him and to make him known as he has been made known to us
Forbids not worshiping and glorifying the true God as God, and as our God; and forbids giving worship and glory to any other, which is due to him alone

so because it says in the Bible that we must worship the Christian God, should we therefore make it illegal to worship any other God??
My bible says:  Exodus 20:3  "You shall have no other gods before me" Plain and simple.  You can worship any "god" you want to, but when your heart has its last beat, you will know the truth.  Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess.  AND there will be a test!    Joking on that one, at least I hope.

Guys doing it to each other and guys doing it to a sheep?  They both sicken me, and guess what "both are happening."  You can see through history what has happened by having tolerance.  Our Moral Absolutes are gone.  Is says thou shalt not kill yet a day before a baby is born, it is legal to kill it.  What's the hell with that?  I believe life begins at conception, but abortion is legal. 

Like EPOMAN, God set down some basic rules to keep some order.  If you don't abide by them you are gone.   

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 12:40:25 PM
 >:D This is so wrong but I have to do it.  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 02:15:19 PM
hahaha Epoman, pretty offensive to some, but the message is so true!

And Rerun, the difference in our Bibles is probably due to the fact that mine is a Protestant Bible, which I would wager yours is not.  ;D

And it wasnt  God that set down rules...it was a bunch of men who "could hear God talking to them" who set down the rules...  ;D

But yeah we've had a good debate, I think both sides argued their point very well, and just for anyone who might have thought this whole debate got a little heated, it was all in good fun, and we're all still friends here!  ;D Because as the Chinese guy who got the boot from this site said: "we've all been punished by God by having our kidneys fail"! so I guess we're all in God's bad books whether we agree with gays getting married or not! hahaha  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Black on June 08, 2006, 02:20:20 PM
Most people are very tolerant and accepting of children born with genetic physical and/or mental anomalies.  But if the genes for some reason involve or relate in anyway to the child's sexuality it suddenly becomes a big deal for some people.  Can you imagine what it's like for a child to be born w/sexual organs of both sexes?  (Sometimes they don't know it until months or even years later.)  Can you imagine the life of a baby born which appears to be male, but is actually female?  Or vice versa?  Life is usually difficult for them, and for their entire extended family.  All of the children born w/ those defects grow up and become adults w/ gender identity in doubt to much of the rest of the world, sometimes to their physicians and sometimes even to themselves -- but many of them know from a very early age who they are, and sometimes it is different from their physical appearance.  We have no way of knowing why homosexuals are the way they are, but we certainly should not judge those unfortunate enough to be born with those problems.  They deserve the same rights, respect, sympathy, and empathy we have for those born with any other birth defect.

All that being said, I don't worry much about those who choose to lead a promiscuous, deviant, immoral lifestyle as long as they are with other consenting adults, regardless of their sexual orientation.  If they take advantage of, seduce, use or abuse any other adults or children, then I do have a HUGE problem with them --whether they are heterosexual or homosexual is irrelevant to me.

My personal opinion is that "marriage" is a religious event/commitment between a man and a woman; civil unions should be legal for anyone who wants to enter into one.  In fact, if my sister and I were to out live our disabled husbands, which is likely, it would be great if we could have a civil union as a short cut to handling all of our legal needs -- as sisters we'd have to have all kinds of legal documents to give each other the rights which we could share in a civil union after a 2 minute civil ceremony.

BTW, interesting posts -- and thank to Epoman for giving us the opportunity to something so waaaaay of topic ;D.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 02:27:57 PM
Great post Black! I never thought about hermaphrodites, and how a very religious person would view them. Because many times these people will have stages in their lives where they live as a man or a woman...and at those times they will be with partners of the "opposite" sex...very interesting point!
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 02:31:02 PM
Most people are very tolerant and accepting of children born with genetic physical and/or mental anomalies.  But if the genes for some reason involve or relate in anyway to the child's sexuality it suddenly becomes a big deal for some people.  Can you imagine what it's like for a child to be born w/sexual organs of both sexes?  (Sometimes they don't know it until months or even years later.)  Can you imagine the life of a baby born which appears to be male, but is actually female?  Or vice versa?  Life is usually difficult for them, and for their entire extended family.  All of the children born w/ those defects grow up and become adults w/ gender identity in doubt to much of the rest of the world, sometimes to their physicians and sometimes even to themselves -- but many of them know from a very early age who they are, and sometimes it is different from their physical appearance.  We have no way of knowing why homosexuals are the way they are, but we certainly should not judge those unfortunate enough to be born with those problems.  They deserve the same rights, respect, sympathy, and empathy we have for those born with any other birth defect.

All that being said, I don't worry much about those who choose to lead a promiscuous, deviant, immoral lifestyle as long as they are with other consenting adults, regardless of their sexual orientation.  If they take advantage of, seduce, use or abuse any other adults or children, then I do have a HUGE problem with them --whether they are heterosexual or homosexual is irrelevant to me.

My personal opinion is that "marriage" is a religious event/commitment between a man and a woman; civil unions should be legal for anyone who wants to enter into one.  In fact, if my sister and I were to out live our disabled husbands, which is likely, it would be great if we could have a civil union as a short cut to handling all of our legal needs -- as sisters we'd have to have all kinds of legal documents to give each other the rights which we could share in a civil union after a 2 minute civil ceremony.

BTW, interesting posts -- and thank to Epoman for giving us the opportunity to something so waaaaay of topic ;D.

My pleasure.  ;)
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 02:32:16 PM
hahaha Epoman, pretty offensive to some, but the message is so true!

And Rerun, the difference in our Bibles is probably due to the fact that mine is a Protestant Bible, which I would wager yours is not.  ;D

And it wasnt  God that set down rules...it was a bunch of men who "could hear God talking to them" who set down the rules...  ;D

But yeah we've had a good debate, I think both sides argued their point very well, and just for anyone who might have thought this whole debate got a little heated, it was all in good fun, and we're all still friends here!  ;D Because as the Chinese guy who got the boot from this site said: "we've all been punished by God by having our kidneys fail"! so I guess we're all in God's bad books whether we agree with gays getting married or not! hahaha  ;D ;D

Was? don't tell me the debates over? It's just getting good.  >:D

- Epoman
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 02:32:39 PM
hahaha Epoman, pretty offensive to some, but the message is so true!

And Rerun, the difference in our Bibles is probably due to the fact that mine is a Protestant Bible, which I would wager yours is not.  ;D

And it wasnt  God that set down rules...it was a bunch of men who "could hear God talking to them" who set down the rules...  ;D

But yeah we've had a good debate, I think both sides argued their point very well, and just for anyone who might have thought this whole debate got a little heated, it was all in good fun, and we're all still friends here!  ;D Because as the Chinese guy who got the boot from this site said: "we've all been punished by God by having our kidneys fail"! so I guess we're all in God's bad books whether we agree with gays getting married or not! hahaha  ;D ;D

Was? don't tell me the debates over? It's just getting good.  >:D

- Epoman
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 02:40:28 PM
hahaha well I can keep going, I just thought that people might have been getting tired of it?
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 02:44:30 PM
hahaha well I can keep going, I just thought that people might have been getting tired of it?

Not me.  >:D

<jimcarrey>
I LIKE IT ALOT!
</jimcarrey>

 ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: kitkatz on June 08, 2006, 03:35:13 PM
I am going for more popcorn to watch the debate.  It is very interesting!
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 04:18:04 PM
Oh man, I just came back from driving through the city where Rerun lives, and I saw this.  :o Man she means business!  :o
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 04:21:17 PM
hahaha priceless!!
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 04:38:30 PM
Oh man I just say this on CNN  :o, I did a screen capture.  :o
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 04:55:13 PM
Yeah I was just watching CNN and I saw this news flash!
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 04:57:08 PM
And to show their support, Hollywood did a little remodelling!
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Gus on June 08, 2006, 06:27:25 PM
Hahaha, amusing thread......... I guess everyone wants to rule the world....  :D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on June 08, 2006, 07:23:44 PM
Hi everyone,  Boy, has this thread been steamin' or what?  I just have a question,  not good or bad, just a question to everyone,  What would you do if your:  Son, Daughter,  Best Friend, Aunt, Uncle, Cousin,  someone you care about came "Out" to you?  would you support them or condem them?   I have gays in my family (male and female) and the only thing that bothers me about the subject is that it bothers so many people.  My cousin and his partner have been together for 13 years,  they are both very successful, very active in their community, well liked in their neighborhood and so on.  They also have "differences" just like any male/female couples may have.   Not to say its right or its wrong, but who am I to judge?  I am not the one who will stand before God   What if someone i loved dearly came to me and said they were gay and wanted me to meet their partner?  what would i do?  i would welcome them in my home just like i would anyone else.  But what would you do?  Honestly, think about it?  it is so possible that someone you love and care about is gay or bi-sexual, but because of some of your strong beliefs against it, they are afraid to talk to you, thats not how it should be,  if you are their friend, they should be able to tell you anything.  I am not writing this to offend anyone, please dont even think that,  i was just wondering what others would do in the situation.   Thank you all for your honesty, i've learned so much.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 07:36:50 PM
Hi everyone,  Boy, has this thread been steamin' or what?  I just have a question,  not good or bad, just a question to everyone,  What would you do if your:  Son, Daughter,  Best Friend, Aunt, Uncle, Cousin,  someone you care about came "Out" to you?  would you support them or condem them?   I have gays in my family (male and female) and the only thing that bothers me about the subject is that it bothers so many people.  My cousin and his partner have been together for 13 years,  they are both very successful, very active in their community, well liked in their neighborhood and so on.  They also have "differences" just like any male/female couples may have.   Not to say its right or its wrong, but who am I to judge?  I am not the one who will stand before God   What if someone i loved dearly came to me and said they were gay and wanted me to meet their partner?  what would i do?  i would welcome them in my home just like i would anyone else.  But what would you do?  Honestly, think about it?  it is so possible that someone you love and care about is gay or bi-sexual, but because of some of your strong beliefs against it, they are afraid to talk to you, thats not how it should be,  if you are their friend, they should be able to tell you anything.  I am not writing this to offend anyone, please dont even think that,  i was just wondering what others would do in the situation.   Thank you all for your honesty, i've learned so much.

Very good question goofynina  :)

Honestly, I have ALREADY told my son, that he can come to talk to me about anything. He is currently 9 years old. He and I have a beautiful relationship. He comes to be about everything. I told him it doesn't matter WHAT IT IS, I told him "I don't care if you come home one day and tell me dad, I like to kiss boys" I will still love you unconditionally. I won't like the fact that my son is gay but I will love him and support him in every aspect of his life. I hope as my son grows older he and I will be able to maintain that level of trust and respect.

- Epoman
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Gus on June 08, 2006, 07:50:39 PM
Frankly,

just about every family tree regardless whom it may be there is a gay member. However, some of them keep it to themselves, its their private personal life. Same with most of us who are not gay, we keep our private personal lives to ourselves.

Anytime in our life it will be revealed, in this as an example, a cousin of mine. Never knew he was gay and years later it was revealed. He's a very respecting individual, outgoing and very socialable...holds a very nice job and has money to spend. We talk like normal people, so I don't see anything wrong with that...as long he's respectful as a human beeing should be.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on June 08, 2006, 07:58:53 PM
Very Good Answer Epoman,  Your son is very lucky to have you as a father,  i've seen my share of instances when the father goes off the deep end cuz he just found out his son was gay,  now, they are no longer on speaking terms,  it's been 5 months and the son is hurting so much for his fathers acceptance,  he is slowly losing his identity, lost his apt. on the verge of losing his job,  all because some people do not know how to accept it.  I think it is just sad, but, hey, who am i huh?  I think and hope that some people who are against this whole gay issue thing would stop for one minute and just think to themselves "What would i do"   
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Rerun on June 08, 2006, 08:06:56 PM
Other questions?

What would you do if your son or daughter came to you and said I'm on drugs and I like it.  OR I'm an alcoholic.  OR I'm quitting school.

When you KNOW the truth, and what is right, you are NOT going to let your loved ones carry on with their choices.  AND the Gay lifestyle is a "choice."

There is our differences.  I think immoral sex is a choice, wheather it is molesting, raping, premarital sex, homosexuality, peeping Toms or Peeping Janes.

If Gays are born that way, then are they a product of a genetic mix-up like a downs child?
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on June 08, 2006, 08:13:07 PM
In response to Gus's reply #2 on p.1 of this thread,  in my heart, i know that a marriage is between a man and a woman,  so therefore i married a man, i am happy, end of story.  But, who am i to tell or say to someone who may have (and is entitled to) their own beliefs and think that it is ok, Well, hey,  if they want to go for it, then by all means GO FOR IT,  again,  we are not the ones who will be standing before the Lord trying to explain,  they will be.  Why cant we just leave them be?   What if God asks us why did we judge them?  Maybe by some of those who are banning gays or doing hate crimes,  what are they doing?  Are they judging?  If they think they know so much about what is right and what is wrong,   what about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you?" and  "Love thy neighbor"  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE,  Do not take this in any offense,  i am just very interested in this topic and i value everyone's opinion.  I am not directing this to anyone by any means,  I just like the fact that we are adults, having a very political conversation and we are all sharing our opinions,  thats all....
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on June 08, 2006, 08:24:04 PM
I honestly do not believe that a gay lifestyle is a choice.  I once saw that it could be possible that that a gay man, may have more female genes (i believe they called it chromosomes) than male, therefore, they are attracted to males.  and same with females.  i can get deep into conversation about past childhood experiences but i dont think that would do anything but have people judge me and i dont want that,  "been there done that" lol,   OHHHHH LORD,  CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG???  lol,   and if someone i loved came to me and said they were on drugs or were an alcoholic, only thing i can do is try and direct them to a rehab or something,  you know the saying,  you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink,  unless they come to me and ask me to help them stop, then you best believe i am gonna hog tie them with a quickness and drive them to the nearest AA or NA or whatever, wherever and whoever is availiable to help them,  now this quitting school business, if its a kid, then, HELL NO YOUR NOT,  but if its an adult,  they must have their reasons,  of course i will hear their reasons and try and weigh the pros and cons but in the long run,  it will be their choice, 
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 08:32:55 PM
Frankly,

just about every family tree regardless whom it may be there is a gay member. However, some of them keep it to themselves, its their private personal life. Same with most of us who are not gay, we keep our private personal lives to ourselves.

Anytime in our life it will be revealed, in this as an example, a cousin of mine. Never knew he was gay and years later it was revealed. He's a very respecting individual, outgoing and very socialable...holds a very nice job and has money to spend. We talk like normal people, so I don't see anything wrong with that...as long he's respectful as a human beeing should be.

Surrrrrrre! a cousin  ;)
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 08:37:04 PM
Other questions?

What would you do if your son or daughter came to you and said I'm on drugs and I like it.  OR I'm an alcoholic.  OR I'm quitting school.

When you KNOW the truth, and what is right, you are NOT going to let your loved ones carry on with their choices.  AND the Gay lifestyle is a "choice."

There is our differences.  I think immoral sex is a choice, wheather it is molesting, raping, premarital sex, homosexuality, peeping Toms or Peeping Janes.

If Gays are born that way, then are they a product of a genetic mix-up like a downs child?

Ahhhh Rerun, I thought you would respond some how to this picture.  >:D  >:D  >:D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 08:42:51 PM
If my child came to me and said I'm addicted to drugs, I would help them get off drugs. This is a health issue. The same goes with alcohol. If my child came to me and said I am quitting school (if they were of the age to do so), then I would first tell them the benefits of staying in school, and what a good education can do for you (I would lead by example). But if my child wanted to become an apprentice of some sort, or get a job, I would support them. If my child said they were gay I would support them with whatever they chose. Drugs, alcohol, dropping out of school (and doing nothing) all have very negative impacts. Being gay doesnt. You arent going to overdose, you arent going to cause your liver to shut down, and you arent going to have problems finding a job.

A genetic mix-up like a downs child? not at all. Its not a genetic disease. Its not a disease at all. Its the same as how some men like blondes. Some men like big breasts. Some men like nice butts. Some men will take whatever they can get. Some woman like a strong build. Some woman like a tall man. Some women only like $$$ haha. They can't explain why, its part of who they are. Youre not going to be able to find a "gay gene" because there probably isn't one. However you may find a part of the brain that is functioning differently in a homosexual, compared to a heterosexual. Just the same as how you might find a part of the brain of a piano virtuoso different than a heroin addict begging for change on the street corner. The human brain is so complex, and will definitely not be fully understood until long after our days on Earth.

But back to the original discussion...Im not arguing whether homosexuality is normal, or natural, or even right. Im arguing that in our society, which is a society built upon free rights, all human beings should be given the same rights, no matter their race, their education, their sex, their social status, their sexual orientation, their religion...basically no matter what the SUPERFICIAL differences between them. As long as they are a member of this society, and do not harm others, they deserve every right that every other member of the society has.

You can't use a religion to make laws that will govern a society. Because who is to say that your religion is right? (or wrong) What if I made a new religion that said "women must be men's slaves". And I wrote a book saying that the all-mighty God of this religion gave me a set of rules that must be followed, or we will suffer for all of eternity. And I wrote in this book a bunch of stories that happened, but I didnt really tell the entire story, or I made the story's morale fit the purpose of my religion. An example would be: There was a great city where women were becoming powerful. They were doing the work of men. God was angry with this, and he struck down upon the great towers that stood before these men and women, and they knew his fury.
Now lets say that all the kids think my religion is cool, and start following it. How would you feel when the next generation decided to re-write the constitution to say that it is illegal for women to be paid more than men (or paid at all), and it is illegal for women not to obey a man's every word. Pretty ridiculous don't you think? But the people following my religion would think it made perfect sense.
That's why you can't let religion govern a country.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on June 08, 2006, 08:50:52 PM
DAAAAAYUM,,,,you go Hyperlite,  you know what your sayin' dont you? 
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 08:51:15 PM
If my child came to me and said I'm addicted to drugs, I would help them get off drugs. This is a health issue. The same goes with alcohol. If my child came to me and said I am quitting school (if they were of the age to do so), then I would first tell them the benefits of staying in school, and what a good education can do for you (I would lead by example). But if my child wanted to become an apprentice of some sort, or get a job, I would support them. If my child said they were gay I would support them with whatever they chose. Drugs, alcohol, dropping out of school (and doing nothing) all have very negative impacts. Being gay doesnt. You arent going to overdose, you arent going to cause your liver to shut down, and you arent going to have problems finding a job.

A genetic mix-up like a downs child? not at all. Its not a genetic disease. Its not a disease at all. Its the same as how some men like blondes. Some men like big breasts. Some men like nice butts. Some men will take whatever they can get. Some woman like a strong build. Some woman like a tall man. Some women only like $$$ haha. They can't explain why, its part of who they are. Youre not going to be able to find a "gay gene" because there probably isn't one. However you may find a part of the brain that is functioning differently in a homosexual, compared to a heterosexual. Just the same as how you might find a part of the brain of a piano virtuoso different than a heroin addict begging for change on the street corner. The human brain is so complex, and will definitely not be fully understood until long after our days on Earth.

But back to the original discussion...Im not arguing whether homosexuality is normal, or natural, or even right. Im arguing that in our society, which is a society built upon free rights, all human beings should be given the same rights, no matter their race, their education, their sex, their social status, their sexual orientation, their religion...basically no matter what the SUPERFICIAL differences between them. As long as they are a member of this society, and do not harm others, they deserve every right that every other member of the society has.

You can't use a religion to make laws that will govern a society. Because who is to say that your religion is right? (or wrong) What if I made a new religion that said "women must be men's slaves". And I wrote a book saying that the all-mighty God of this religion gave me a set of rules that must be followed, or we will suffer for all of eternity. And I wrote in this book a bunch of stories that happened, but I didnt really tell the entire story, or I made the story's morale fit the purpose of my religion. An example would be: There was a great city where women were becoming powerful. They were doing the work of men. God was angry with this, and he struck down upon the great towers that stood before these men and women, and they knew his fury.
Now lets say that all the kids think my religion is cool, and start following it. How would you feel when the next generation decided to re-write the constitution to say that it is illegal for women to be paid more than men (or paid at all), and it is illegal for women not to obey a man's every word. Pretty ridiculous don't you think? But the people following my religion would think it made perfect sense.
That's why you can't let religion govern a country.

Ok, Ok, damn you don't have to call me out, next time just use my name.  :-[ :-\










 ;) ;D

- Epoman
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 08, 2006, 09:09:02 PM
hahaha we all have our "vices"  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Rerun on June 08, 2006, 09:23:54 PM
Oh, O...... I posted something and it didn't show up here!  If anyone sees it elsewhere, let me know so I can move it!   ;D

Oh, but a Government that hates women?  I think it is already in Saudi Arabia.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 08, 2006, 09:50:01 PM
Oh, O...... I posted something and it didn't show up here!  If anyone sees it elsewhere, let me know so I can move it!   ;D

Oh, but a Government that hates women?  I think it is already in Saudi Arabia.

 ??? Confused  ???
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Bajanne on June 08, 2006, 11:12:01 PM
I am SO totally with you on this one, Rerun(referring to your earlier posting).   Society today is in the trouble it is in, because people want to shy away from moral absolutes.  If we don't have any, what is to stop people from sexually abusing underage children, etc.  There MUST be an absolute somewhere.  And there is!!!

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: ginger cookie on June 09, 2006, 06:33:30 AM
Kikny Freidman is running for governer in our state (TX).
He is pro gay marriage and his rationale is "They should have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us..."
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Bajanne on June 09, 2006, 06:49:49 AM
Kikny Freidman is running for governer in our state (TX).
He is pro gay marriage and his rationale is "They should have the right to be as miserable as the rest of us..."
;D  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 09, 2006, 07:29:14 AM
I just want to make this point, because it doesn't seem to be coming across:

Gay marriage, even if you find it immoral, does not harm anyone, or violate anyone's personal rights.
Sexually abusing children does. There will never be a movement to allow this. That is ridiculous.
Having sex with animals is animal cruelty. There are also implacations such as cross breading, which is illegal to do with humans. There will never be a movement to allow this.

Stop comparing gay marriage to sexual crimes, such as molestation, rape, or sodomy. Because "sex" is such a taboo in our society (thanks to religion), anything that has to do with sex gets clumped together in one category. How is 2 men or 2 women having sex in their own privacy, the same as an adult taking advantage of an innocent child?

You say we need an absolute somewhere, well the absolute should be that 2 adults can do whatever they want as long as they aren't harming anyone else, or themselves.

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hephziba on June 09, 2006, 09:40:18 AM
Surely Gay marriage does harm someone, the men and women who become tied into a fruitless marriage, ie, no ability to produce children with one another, and even if they do adopt, then should people who are totally lost about there own sexuality lay the foundation for the sexuality and personality of the next generation, its about breaking Gods law, just like most of us tried to push the boundrys with our parents in order to set up new bed time rules, or less chores or whatever else, these people are trying to establish a new order, calling black white and white black, and the gullible are falling for it.

Logic, not all this emotional political correct we must people please everybody rubbish, thats brainwashing taught in school. heres logic, many health junkies tried for a while to teach that drinking urine is healthy good for your skin and many other stupid things, now why would drinking toxins be usefull to the human body, men are made to be knit to gether with women, eg the male organ the female organ.. I'm not trying to be crude or rude and offensive, I grew up believing I was homosexual and for a long time I believed the stupid lie that this is the way God has made me, or its in my genes.
that Changed when I met God. not church not religious rubbish, but God.

the way people are is a direct result of parenting and environment, be it spiritual or physical. my damage was an absent unemotional father and abuse. I understand this isn't a Christian site, but since most Christians cop out and go with the political correct rubbish I thought Id ad my two pennies worth.
 
this weekend I celebrate my second year of marriage, for most people two years isn't really long, and of course 5o years of marriage is something to show off about, but if this world had had its way I wouldn't be married, or worse Id have lived somewhere where gay marriage was OK and that would have been my path..
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 09, 2006, 10:14:20 AM
Surely Gay marriage does harm someone, the men and women who become tied into a fruitless marriage, ie, no ability to produce children with one another, and even if they do adopt, then should people who are totally lost about there own sexuality lay the foundation for the sexuality and personality of the next generation, its about breaking Gods law, just like most of us tried to push the boundrys with our parents in order to set up new bed time rules, or less chores or whatever else, these people are trying to establish a new order, calling black white and white black, and the gullible are falling for it.

Logic, not all this emotional political correct we must people please everybody rubbish, thats brainwashing taught in school. heres logic, many health junkies tried for a while to teach that drinking urine is healthy good for your skin and many other stupid things, now why would drinking toxins be usefull to the human body, men are made to be knit to gether with women, eg the male organ the female organ.. I'm not trying to be crude or rude and offensive, I grew up believing I was homosexual and for a long time I believed the stupid lie that this is the way God has made me, or its in my genes.
that Changed when I met God. not church not religious rubbish, but God.

the way people are is a direct result of parenting and environment, be it spiritual or physical. my damage was an absent unemotional father and abuse. I understand this isn't a Christian site, but since most Christians cop out and go with the political correct rubbish I thought Id ad my two pennies worth.
 
this weekend I celebrate my second year of marriage, for most people two years isn't really long, and of course 5o years of marriage is something to show off about, but if this world had had its way I wouldn't be married, or worse Id have lived somewhere where gay marriage was OK and that would have been my path..

How does entering into a "fruitless marriage" harm someone? I know of many straight couples who have decided not to have children, yet they are still married. And believe it or not, having gay parents does not negatively affect a child. If anything it teaches them to be more accepting of others. Check out this website: http://www.colage.org/resources/facts.htm

I like your statement about how drinking urine was at once "thought by health junkies" to be beneficial. And then you go on to say something along the lines of "how gullible". Well yeah it seems absurd, becuase there is scientific evidence that drinking urine is not benficial at all. But then again, I could say that you are gullible for beleiving in an "All-Mighty Presence" ie: God. Where's the proof that a God really exists? What if people started beleiving that the world we live in, was really just a grain of sand inside an enormous dessert, on an enormous planet, run by cows with super-brains. Pretty crazy wouldn't you think? But really theres just as much evidence of that "reality" as the one you are beleiving in.

And just to let you know, homosexuality is not just a "human thing"

http://www.cnn.com/NATURE/9909/18/gay.vulture.parents/
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hephziba on June 09, 2006, 10:59:37 AM
I wasnt saying that not having children is fruitless but the ability to have children was commited to a man and a women, men cannot get together and make a baby.

paedophiles are not just inherently evil people. they are convinced that is the way they are.that preying on children is their sexuality. young guys who get urges towards other young guys also believe that makes them homosexual. because of the publicity and protection the homosexual religion has recieved and the lack of truth, they continue that lifestyle. 

you are very welcome to say I am very gullable to believe in an allmighty presence or God, feel free.
the problem with athiests or unbelievers whatever youd like to call it, is they dont believe and because they dont believe they avoid all the places and situations where their beliefs might be challenged. in the last two years I have seen 6 deaf people get there hearing,by the power of God, three were totally deaf in both ears and three partially deaf either in the left or the right ear. Before I met God I never saw a miracle and due to controlled media never heard of one. In the world deaf people dont get there hearing back. yet Ive seen it and they heard it. Ive met my wife, as yet you have never spoken with her, but for that you cant say she doesnt exist, Ive met God, you have as yet not met Him. but scientifically you cannot disprove my friend who you have not met.

in regards to homosexual animals, I wont deny that, but if we want to get biblical, it says "The whole world lies under the sway of the evil one, or the world is in bondage to corruption. this all came as a result of the adam and eve story..

I love gay people , but I love them enough to turn the lights on when they are walking in the dark. telling them the dark is light doesnt really help.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 09, 2006, 11:36:50 AM
Heres a little side-thought: theoretically, the ability to have children could belong to more than just a man and a woman. Two men could produce a child if their genes were inserted into an egg that had had it's genes removed. So in essence the child would be a "clone" of the two men (a mix of the two, so not really a clone)...Now I know there are many that would find this to be an unforgivable sin. I'm not sure I would agree with it either, but I am saying that it is possible.

Pedophiles are evil people. Anyone who prey's on an innocent person and does harm to them is evil. End of story. I'm not saying they are pure evil, but their actions are evil.

I'm not trying to say you are gullable for believing in God. I believe in God, I just don't believe that he (or she  ;D) is going around granting miracles and watching us all and judging us like Santa Claus. The God I believe in started the Universe. That's it. And the reason I believe that, is because it hurts my brain to think about nothingness before the universe was created (as a human being, I can't grasp the concept of nothingness). You say that people who were completely deaf got their hearing back. There must be a medical explanation for this. Maybe these people had some sort of nerve that was blocking their auditory sensory pathway. Maybe this nerve got knocked back into place? Who knows...A magician like Chris Angel or David Blaine can make it appear as though they are floating, or make something dissapear or whatever. The average person believes it, that doesn't mean its really happening.

Ive seen those shows on TV, on sunday mornings where they have huge auditoriums full of people, and an old lady who "couldn't walk" comes running out onto the stage. Healed by the power of God. And then the priest or whatever he is puts his hand to her face, and she passes out. Thats not a miracle. Its a way to make money.

True miracles can happen, like surviving a deadly cancer. But there is an explanation behind them.

And yes scientifically I can disprove your friend whom I have not met. I could drive to wherever you live, and see this person. I could touch that person. I could hear that person...etc
There is no way to see God, to take his picture, to touch him. But I'm not arguing that God does or doesn't exist. And I'm not arguing whether or not he thinks homosexuality is right or wrong. You dont know what he thinks, neither do I. The Bible might say something, but that was written by men, more than a thousand years ago. Its just an interpretation of what those men thought.

What I AM arguing is that gays should be allowed to get married (whether is a civil union, or a marriage in a church) if they want to. If a certain church or minister or priest does not want to wed a gay couple, than that is his choice. Let them find another church that will do it. But don't write it into the constitution so that your religion is basically forced upon them. If you're going to do that, you might as well write into the constitution that being Muslim, or Jewish, or Buddhist is illegal, and teaching the ways of these religions is illegal.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hephziba on June 10, 2006, 02:28:50 AM
Ive seen those shows on TV, on sunday mornings where they have huge auditoriums full of people, and an old lady who "couldn't walk" comes running out onto the stage. Healed by the power of God. And then the priest or whatever he is puts his hand to her face, and she passes out. Thats not a miracle. Its a way to make money.

sorry don't know how to do the quote thingy.

This was very funny. I agree there are many out there making money this way, I'm sorry to tell you that the reason that you don't know The God of the bible, is because you are hanging around the wrong places, I have friends who walk with God and have healing ministries, seeing crazy things like metal pins dissolving out of peoples bodies, totally paralyzed people get up and walk, men growing new eye balls where there were none. thats why I hate religion, religion is the reason the average person does not know the Goodness of God, its not a money making gimmick,

I have prayed for people myself in the name of Jesus and seen deaf ears open, and seen the shock on the peoples faces and the tears of their wives(tears of Joy) do you know the first thing a blind person who has received sight does. they walk around the room and learn the names of colors, they seek the people they know and get a first glimpse of their faces. people who were deaf have to learn to talk properly as for the first time they hear clearly how the world sounds. there is an entirely awesome hidden world in God that you have not yet found.

I'm talking about documented miracles not ludicrous claims, and scientists cannot understand neither can Dr's. 

these things follow God and cant be found outside of Him. The liberal God you spoke of is simply the God of your own understanding, a God who plants a planet just to leave it floating around in space, its a bit stupid like a man building a huge mansion just to walk away and leave it derelict.

and I like your statement about the bible being a book written by men who thought they heard from God. if you have heard of Nostradamus he has nothing on the bible, many of His prophecy's fell to the ground, eg failed, but throughout the bible are prophetic words that have come to pass, for instance Jesus told the leaders of the Jews not one stone would remain on top of another , ie the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened in 70 ad when the Romans overturned every stone.

the Bible is a prophetic document that fortells many future events and fortold many past events before they took place. no man has ever fortold the future so vividly and accurately as this. the bible is a book of mystical of supernatural nature.

I'm not preaching at you its just easier if you know some of the facts that the lazy sleepy church isn't telling.

all the events eg marriage amendments are really to do with breaking Gods law, nothing to do with "Gay" people living in happily married situations. in fact all the political arguments that have become so popular are to do with man opposing Gods law, ie abortion,same sex marriage, polygamy, etc.

and all of these have very logical answers but people aren't seeing the logical answers but the immoral anti Christ answers.

I wont go into it now, even though this is an of topic post. maybe if people want to discuss and debate interesting stuff like that we could ask epoman if we could set up such a post, we need to get our minds of the daily chore of dialysis.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: RichnStacy on June 10, 2006, 05:08:43 AM
Hephziba wrote:
Quote
I have friends who walk with God and have healing ministries, seeing crazy things like metal pins dissolving out of peoples bodies, totally paralyzed people get up and walk, men growing new eye balls where there were none.
Aren't you on Dialysis?
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hephziba on June 10, 2006, 05:28:24 AM
Yes I am on dialysis, regardless of that God remains true to His word and me being on dialysis has no bearing on whether God performs miracles around the world. One of my friends had torn ligaments out of his shoulder and couldn't move it. He prayed for people and saw them healed even while he was waiting for surgery. Two days before surgery, God healed him. Contrary to popular belief, God is not the author of sickness, so regardless of whether my major organs have failed or I have a headache, this is no reason to doubt or blame God. God is just as good on my bad days as He is on my good days. Good things happen to good people and bad people, and it rains on good & evil, the bible doesn't claim a perfect wonderful life for christians, it claims a relationship with an awesome, loving God. Saint Paul was stoned, beaten and suffered shipwreck, yet still praised a loving God. Saint Peter was allegedly nailed on an up side down cross and many other horrendous things have happened to others who have held fast to the truth.  I don't understand it all.  ???

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Rerun on June 10, 2006, 07:21:58 AM
Hephziba -  Amen to what you are saying.

Why do homosexuals need to be married in the church or under the covenant of God?  Why do they care?  They can't honestly think that they are Christians and living a godly life.

It makes me sad to read some of these posts.  I don't know how people get through daily dialysis without the faith that God exists and he has a better place for us after we die. 

The Bible says that sex is meant to be between a man and a woman and it is beautiful.  It doesn't NOT say that sex is taboo.  Only immoral sex is taboo.  Homosexuality is cauterized as immoral sex in the Bible.  I try to tell the children in my life to wait to have sex until after marriage.   Your virginity can only be given away once.  Give it under the blessing of Marriage.

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 10, 2006, 08:07:56 AM
Ive seen those shows on TV, on sunday mornings where they have huge auditoriums full of people, and an old lady who "couldn't walk" comes running out onto the stage. Healed by the power of God. And then the priest or whatever he is puts his hand to her face, and she passes out. Thats not a miracle. Its a way to make money.

sorry don't know how to do the quote thingy.

This was very funny. I agree there are many out there making money this way, I'm sorry to tell you that the reason that you don't know The God of the bible, is because you are hanging around the wrong places, I have friends who walk with God and have healing ministries, seeing crazy things like metal pins dissolving out of peoples bodies, totally paralyzed people get up and walk, men growing new eye balls where there were none. thats why I hate religion, religion is the reason the average person does not know the Goodness of God, its not a money making gimmick,

I have prayed for people myself in the name of Jesus and seen deaf ears open, and seen the shock on the peoples faces and the tears of their wives(tears of Joy) do you know the first thing a blind person who has received sight does. they walk around the room and learn the names of colors, they seek the people they know and get a first glimpse of their faces. people who were deaf have to learn to talk properly as for the first time they hear clearly how the world sounds. there is an entirely awesome hidden world in God that you have not yet found.

I'm talking about documented miracles not ludicrous claims, and scientists cannot understand neither can Dr's. 

these things follow God and cant be found outside of Him. The liberal God you spoke of is simply the God of your own understanding, a God who plants a planet just to leave it floating around in space, its a bit stupid like a man building a huge mansion just to walk away and leave it derelict.

and I like your statement about the bible being a book written by men who thought they heard from God. if you have heard of Nostradamus he has nothing on the bible, many of His prophecy's fell to the ground, eg failed, but throughout the bible are prophetic words that have come to pass, for instance Jesus told the leaders of the Jews not one stone would remain on top of another , ie the destruction of Jerusalem, which happened in 70 ad when the Romans overturned every stone.

the Bible is a prophetic document that fortells many future events and fortold many past events before they took place. no man has ever fortold the future so vividly and accurately as this. the bible is a book of mystical of supernatural nature.

I'm not preaching at you its just easier if you know some of the facts that the lazy sleepy church isn't telling.

all the events eg marriage amendments are really to do with breaking Gods law, nothing to do with "Gay" people living in happily married situations. in fact all the political arguments that have become so popular are to do with man opposing Gods law, ie abortion,same sex marriage, polygamy, etc.

and all of these have very logical answers but people aren't seeing the logical answers but the immoral anti Christ answers.

I wont go into it now, even though this is an of topic post. maybe if people want to discuss and debate interesting stuff like that we could ask epoman if we could set up such a post, we need to get our minds of the daily chore of dialysis.

You don't have to ask me, this is Off-Topic you can talk about ANYTHING here.  :) You can talk about the color of your poop! if you want.  ;D

- Epoman
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 10, 2006, 11:41:27 AM
It's not that gays want to be married under the church, or even accepted by the church. It's that they want to be given the status of "married" or "civily unionized" (haha or whatever the word is), so that they can be given the same benefits that married couples recieve, such as tax benefits, and healthcare coverage etc. If a church does not want to marry them, than that is the church's choice. You can't force someone to do something against their beliefs. BUT if a certain church or religion has no problem with "wedding" two gays, whether it's under God's watchful eye or not, or whether it's just a civil union, that should be the church or religion or whatever's own decision. By writing into the constitution that Gay's can not get married, or enter into a "formal relationship" or whatever you want to call it, the government is taking away the freedom of choice. If church's feel so negatively towards the notion, than they should choose to not wed these couples. But don't write it into the constitution so that those people out there who are more accepting, cannot. Just because your religion says it's wrong, doesn't mean that someone else's religion says it's wrong.

Here's an example that might hit home:

Let's say that we lived in a country that was populated by a group of people that were predominatly Jehovah's Witnesses. Now lets say that there were many people (millions) that were not Jehovah's Witnesses, but the majority of the population was. Now lets say that the government was upset with the increasing amount of people who were donating blood and organs, and the increasing number of people who were accepting this blood and organs...etc. (because that is against their religion). Don't you think it would be ridiculous for the government to write into the constitution that the donation of these organs is illegal? Why should the government make something illegal for everyone, when a very large portion of the population did not believe in this, as it was not part of their religion? All of the Christians that lived in this country who needed these donations to live, would be outraged. Why not let the people that want to donate their organs, or receive these organs, do so? They aren't harming the other people...Just because the majority of people that live in North America are Christians, doesn't mean that everyone else should be...
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Naggy6 on June 10, 2006, 08:06:46 PM
I guess I wouldn't have such a problem with all this going on if it weren't thrown in our faces every day.

If what people do in their own bedrooms is their own business then why are they constantly parading it around in the street. I think there is a time and place for every thing. I don't need to see couples of any orientation groping each other in public. That just drives me crazy, keep it where it belongs, behind closed doors. I think if people would do that then people that didn't approve wouldn't be so upset by this. You get sick of it being in your face every place you look. If it is your own business then keep it there.

I don't think it needs to talked about in class rooms of young children. If a child for what ever reason was to ask a teacher about such a thing then they should be directed to ask their parents. It should be up to parents to teach their own children what they believe.

I think gays are born that way, I mean why would any one decide to be treated the way they are through out their life.

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 10, 2006, 08:13:09 PM
I guess I wouldn't have such a problem with all this going on if it weren't thrown in our faces every day.

If what people do in their own bedrooms is their own business then why are they constantly parading it around in the street. I think there is a time and place for every thing. I don't need to see couples of any orientation groping each other in public. That just drives me crazy, keep it where it belongs, behind closed doors. I think if people would do that then people that didn't approve wouldn't be so upset by this. You get sick of it being in your face every place you look. If it is your own business then keep it there.

I don't think it needs to talked about in class rooms of young children. If a child for what ever reason was to ask a teacher about such a thing then they should be directed to ask their parents. It should be up to parents to teach their own children what they believe.

I think gays are born that way, I mean why would any one decide to be treated the way they are through out their life.

Constantly parading it around in the street? I don't know where you live, but where I live there aren't constant gay parades in the street...If you're talking about something like an annual "Gay Pride Parade", then yeah. Very wierd. Grosses me out. But that's why I don't go to it.

And yes I agree with you, no need to talk about it in the class rooms of young children...but I definatly don't think they talk about homosexual relationships in elementary school. I know they didn't talk about it when I went to public school (not that long ago)...
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on June 12, 2006, 02:16:45 PM
I guess I wouldn't have such a problem with all this going on if it weren't thrown in our faces every day.

If what people do in their own bedrooms is their own business then why are they constantly parading it around in the street. I think there is a time and place for every thing. I don't need to see couples of any orientation groping each other in public. That just drives me crazy, keep it where it belongs, behind closed doors. I think if people would do that then people that didn't approve wouldn't be so upset by this. You get sick of it being in your face every place you look. If it is your own business then keep it there.

I don't think it needs to talked about in class rooms of young children. If a child for what ever reason was to ask a teacher about such a thing then they should be directed to ask their parents. It should be up to parents to teach their own children what they believe.

I think gays are born that way, I mean why would any one decide to be treated the way they are through out their life.



This is so true, homosexuality is all over T.V., movies, books, bumper stickers, it really is forced down our throats, all of this politically correct bullshit.  :-\
I personally believe what EVER two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home, is their business, but damn don't brag about it.  ::) I mean why have a gay pride parade? Why can't we have a "straight" pride parade. Oh wait we can't because the would insult the gays.  ::)

- Epoman
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: hyperlite on June 12, 2006, 07:11:45 PM
Nobody's saying you can't have a "straight pride parade"...but its kind of like how theres no such thing as "white history month". Or a White-Entertainment-Television TV station...As much as I hate to say it, its not really a "two-way street". Is that being "politically correct" ? Maybe...but when you're dealing with minorities, vs. a majority, the rules are different.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Gus on June 12, 2006, 08:49:49 PM
What about a dialysis pride parade........har har har... :D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: kitkatz on July 29, 2006, 12:27:47 PM
Well it has been awhile since anyone said anything on this thread, so here goes my thoughts.

I think if any couple wants to get married, let them.  Why should someone who has been together for years  be prevented from getting married and having the protection marriage gives them?  In this day and age a divorce is easy to get.  They will just divorce if things do not work out.

Let the rumble begin again!

Epoman get the lawn chair out again!

Katherine
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: angieskidney on July 29, 2006, 12:52:20 PM
I think it would be okay if gays got married but not in a church because it is against the bible. I think if they wanted to get married in a court, so be it. I know a lot of people may be against what I have to say (including my own boyfriend) but I believe in the Bible very strongly and in what it says. I am not, however, against Gays. I accept all people equally but a marriage under God should be men married woman. That is just how I feel. But maybe that is only because I have only known 2 gay guys in my entire life and one bisexual girl.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on July 29, 2006, 12:53:55 PM
My cousin (who is gay)  doesnt want to have a wedding but a comittment ceremony, i thought that sounded cool
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: angieskidney on July 29, 2006, 01:09:56 PM
My cousin (who is gay)  doesnt want to have a wedding but a comittment ceremony, i thought that sounded cool
That is cool :)
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: BigSky on July 29, 2006, 04:27:54 PM
Well it has been awhile since anyone said anything on this thread, so here goes my thoughts.

I think if any couple wants to get married, let them.  Why should someone who has been together for years  be prevented from getting married and having the protection marriage gives them?  In this day and age a divorce is easy to get.  They will just divorce if things do not work out.

Let the rumble begin again!

Epoman get the lawn chair out again!Katherine

If that is truly the case then by all means they can draw up a contract to protect themselves.  The fact that the majority of gays do not do such a thing speaks volumes on the issue.  If they didn't have other motives on this they would in fact draw up contracts at the very least to protect themselves.  After all even if contracts are drawn up there is no down side to it even if sometime at a later date they are given the OK to marry.


Doesn't much matter what the feds do on the issue anyway.  The issue belongs to states and many states are amending their Constitution to fit their view.

Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Sara on July 29, 2006, 06:33:02 PM
What a thread to revive.  LOL
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on July 29, 2006, 06:33:51 PM
Thank you Sara, my sentiments exactly... :-\
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Epoman on July 29, 2006, 06:56:15 PM
Thank you Sara, my sentiments exactly... :-\

 ;D oh come on you loved this thread.
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: goofynina on July 29, 2006, 07:04:40 PM
Yeah, but thats besides the point...;)
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Sara on July 30, 2006, 04:40:19 AM
Thank you Sara, my sentiments exactly... :-\

Maybe next we'll go back to the "Catholics aren't Christians" debate.  LOL   >:D
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: angieskidney on July 30, 2006, 11:38:49 AM
Thank you Sara, my sentiments exactly... :-\

Maybe next we'll go back to the "Catholics aren't Christians" debate.  LOL   >:D

"Catholics aren't Christians"  WHAT???  :o
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: Sara on July 30, 2006, 09:04:35 PM
You missed that one?  Oh that was a beauty!
Title: Re: Marriage Protection Amendment
Post by: kitkatz on July 30, 2006, 11:46:38 PM
ooooooh noooo! *I cringe in my chair*