I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Dialysis Discussion => Dialysis: Centers => Dialysis: Workers => Topic started by: Joe Paul on February 06, 2008, 07:39:09 AM

Title: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 06, 2008, 07:39:09 AM
Man, what a morning! I walked in the center this morning and noticed someone new hovering around my station. I thought it was a trainee, but the first thing I heard was "Hi, I'm Rhonda, new here but 13 years in dialysis". Well, got my standing blood pressure, then sat down to be stuck. Rhonda with her 13 years, slammed the needle in like she was tossing a spear. I yelled OUCH!, why do you have to be so rough? She then grabbed the 2nd needle, SLAM!, same thing. I asked her to please step away from me as I was in lots of pain. I have a nerve somewhere in the arterial side of my fistula, and she hit it dead on. Now the tech who has known me for the almost 2 years I been there started coping an attitude, telling me" that since I have been there I have picked and chose who puts me on". Now she knows damn well, there is only one other tech I wont let touch my fistula, and that was after I gave her 3 chances. Needless to say, I told her to get away too. They wanted to take the needle out, then put another one in, I said NO WAY, As once someone hits that nerve, flipping the needle, pulling it out, inserting another needle does no good,  I'm in pain for the rest of the treatment. I managed to hang with the pain for 2 hours before I asked to be taken off. Now, being diabetic my sugar has peeked from the stress of this morning, and I am still 1.5 kilos off my dry weight. Now, I was asked to speak with the centers supervisor, about starting button-holes. I had asked this the whole first year I been at this clinic, they told me there wasn't anyone qualified to do the buttonholes. There has been nobody new start, outside of "Rhonda" so I wonder how now they can all the sudden suggest buttonholes. I am still stressing over all this, I'm not sure what I will do.  :rant;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Roadrunner on February 06, 2008, 08:28:27 AM
I feel for you.  When we moved we started with a center that was like yours.  It was just a job that they wanted to get over.  It is why we are now on home dialysis.

Ask if you can be trained to put in your own needles.  The same person should be inserting the needles everytime when starting buttonholes.  I do my husbands needles and he says the blunt needles are almost painless.  He hates when I remove the scabs.  Says that is worse than the needles.

Roadrunner
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 06, 2008, 12:46:52 PM
Thanks RoadRunner, I am going in Friday, and was told they want me to start buttonholes. I will post again to see if someone there will do the buttonhole, or its me who will do it. Thanks for the reply  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: CW on February 06, 2008, 12:57:38 PM
Sorry to hear that JP >:(

I say this - anyone who wants to can have an attitude that is their problem just do you friggin job!

I agree with you, I like to give people more than one chance but they need to show they are taking my instructions seriously and following them if not then you will not touch my arm I do not care who has an attitude! If you are curious as to what has changed that makes it possible for them to do buttonholes now and not then - ask them. Ask the head nurse or an admin and they should have a direct and immediate answer.

Good luck! :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 06, 2008, 01:16:22 PM
Sorry to hear that JP >:(

I say this - anyone who wants to can have an attitude that is their problem just do you friggin job!

I agree with you, I like to give people more than one chance but they need to show they are taking my instructions seriously and following them if not then you will not touch my arm I do not care who has an attitude! If you are curious as to what has changed that maked it possible for them to do buttonholes now and not then - ask them. Ask the head nurse or an admin and they should have a direct and immediate answer.

Good luck! :2thumbsup;
Thanks CW, thats who I see Friday, the "head nurse". I will ask exactly what you said. Thanks for your reply  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: MyssAnne on February 06, 2008, 01:29:41 PM
Oh man, JP. I hurt just reading your post.  You're darn right you're gonna talk to the head nurse. That is unacceptable.

It's not THEIR nerves they're attacking!  I'd say something but it wouldn't be complimentary to our forum female dogs!

I so hope you get your BS down. 
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 06, 2008, 01:43:26 PM
Thanks MyssAnne, I have calmed down since I posted this, working on the blood sugar now. Funny, one of the older women patients (79) called me to make sure I was doing OK. She told me in the 2 years she has known me, she had never seen me upset. God I love her, so sweet!
Thanks MyssAnne for your reply  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: charee on February 06, 2008, 03:29:37 PM
Sorry JP I feel your pain , I was hitting nerves getting my buttonholes started , mine are nearly painless after 9 months. So try and get them to start you on buttonholes Take Care Oh and if "Rhonda"  comes near you :boxing;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 06, 2008, 04:35:58 PM
Aint those nerves painful! Thanks Charee for your reply   :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 07, 2008, 02:50:40 AM
:thumbdown; My arm is really aching this morning. What makes me upset is when I asked to do buttonholes a year ago, the fistula was nice and undamaged. Now that its beat up, they want to talk to me about buttonholes! I am trying to get a picture to show what I am talking about - Also, for "evidence" tomorrow when I see the head nurse, as I heal quickly. Got it, here is what it looks like this morning
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: kitkatz on February 07, 2008, 04:10:29 AM
OUCHIE!
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: bolta72 on February 07, 2008, 04:28:51 AM
 ??? ??? :thumbdown;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Bajanne on February 07, 2008, 05:43:46 AM
OH MY GOODNESS!!  That is absolutely awful!  I am glad, though, that you stood up for yourself. They always seem to think that a good patient is one who lets anything happen to them, silently.  Not at all.  Wish I could deal with that Rhonda -  :boxing;  You need to print out a copy of LifeOnHold's 'Darla's Guide to Dialysis Nurses' and put it up in your unit - http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=66.0
From what you said, Rhonda would be categorized as a 'The Brute'!!
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: kitkatz on February 07, 2008, 05:51:43 AM
Volunteer to stick Rhonda next time you are in there.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: MyssAnne on February 07, 2008, 06:34:14 AM
Oh JP!!!!!!  That looks horrible!!!!!!   How are you feeling today?  Other than sore that is!!!  Is your blood sugar stable now? 
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Ohio Buckeye on February 07, 2008, 08:31:13 AM
I wouldn't let her near me again.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Adam_W on February 07, 2008, 09:12:05 AM
Oh, JP, that is awful. I know what it's like to hit nerves with needles (or should I say, rip nerves clean in half), and it sucks big weenie. Don't ever let that brute approach you with a needle again. I stick myself (when my access is working well enough to use), and I don't think I would ever want to have a nurse or tech cannulate me. At least if something goes wrong (infiltrating or hitting nerves), I know it is my mistake and I can take action to correct it, rather than dealing with a hot-headed nurse who won't admit he/she did something wrong. I hope things go better for you JP.

Adam
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 07, 2008, 09:13:01 AM
Thanks for the replies. Bajanne, I wish you could deal with her for me :)  MyssAnne, still having trouble with the sugar as I am concerned as to what I will be treated like tomorrow. The units social worker called yesterday, and from what shes said the nurse and the tech switched up the story to suit themselves. Well tomorrow I guess we will all sit and discuss the situation, something I feel does not need brought up again. I spoke my mind yesterday and did not stutter. They should have taken notes, cause if they need explanation it is not going to be a pleasent one. That is why I took that picture, they say a picture speaks many words. I have printed that picture, and will let it speak for me. Thanks again for all your support in this it means lots to me  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: rose1999 on February 07, 2008, 11:27:55 PM
JP it looks awful, wishing you luck in getting this sorted so that you never have to deal with that nurse again.  Hope the pain is soon gone. :cuddle;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: CW on February 08, 2008, 01:53:15 AM
Ouch JP that does look like it hurts >:( ; but excellent move on the pic we definitely  think alike! 8) Always document !! :clap;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: BigSky on February 08, 2008, 06:46:05 AM
Its a lot of pressure on a nurse to stick someone.  Seems many try doing it fast in the ripping the bandaid off philosphy.

Best thing to do is learn to stick yourself.  Then you do not have to rely on anyone to stick you and you never have to worry about how other nurses do it in other units if you travel.

After a few times to a few weeks of sticking yourself you should be familar with your fistula and where the good places are to stick.

From there start the buttonholes yourself.

The basics of starting a buttonhole are to stick the same spot using the same angle and routine.  After doing it a 2-3 weeks you should have your buttonholes formed and should be ready to move to blunts.

Nurses do not have to start buttonholes.

Medisystems has a video that will help you get started. 

http://www.medisystems.com/hemodialysis/buttonhole/default.asp

The video link is at the bottom of the page.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 08, 2008, 08:32:05 AM
The "meeting" did not go well. As I said, the staff changed up what happened to suit them. The "supervisor" didn't even want to see the pictures of what I had to endure, all she said is "well, thats the nurse that is going to be working here". I guess it is time to find another doctor, new center & pray a transplant comes soon. Ain't it something that even a dialysis clinic is nothing more than a "click".
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: KT0930 on February 08, 2008, 09:11:56 AM
Damn, why do they think they have jobs in the first place?? It's certainly not so that the patients can become their personal punching bags! Don't they realize the patients have enough to deal with without having to fight them for quality care?  >:(

JP, I am so sorry you're having to deal with these insensitive, uncaring people. I hope you are able to find a neph and a center you're happy with. I hope you've gotten your blood sugar under control (I didn't know stress/worry could affect it like that. Very interesting.)
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: rose1999 on February 08, 2008, 10:12:13 AM
That's disgraceful, I hope you can find another centre nearby, they seem to be few and far between here.  Good luck, what else can I say. Hope a transplant comes soon.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: MyssAnne on February 08, 2008, 10:17:34 AM
I agree, that is just disgraceful.  We should not have to suffer any more than we already do.  DEFINITELY get out of there as soon as possible.

gggrrrr :boxing; :boxing;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Mimi on February 08, 2008, 04:01:13 PM
JP, so sorry you got such a cold response at the center.  I wish you luck in finding a new center and more caring
people.

Love, Mimi
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 09, 2008, 11:28:56 PM
I was thinking the social worker at least would have tried to help me out here, but nope, she helped to push buttons during the meeting with the supervisor. I called to talk with the nurse practitioner, and we decided that I stay on for now and try to work around this situation. I did some checking around, but most of the centers close enough to me do not take my insurance, and if I were to change insurance, that would mess me up at the transplant center where I am listed, as they do not accept the insurance I would need for the other centers Doctors.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: CW on February 10, 2008, 03:23:18 AM
Hey JP,

I am sorry it did not go well. I do have to say I have dealt with this many times throughout my time as a patient. When medical staff - be it hospital, clinic etc. is responsive and caring these issues do not come up. However when medical staff is irresponsible, thoughtless, lazy, stupid, unprofessional or abusive these issues come up regularly. I see it like this - you do your best to come to an agreement and you make sure you voice your opinion on the situation clearly and concisely (if you need help take someone with you to the meeting). If you do not get an acceptable response you protest maturely and with emotionless precision - otherwise they will label you a "unstable emotional patient" and ignore you altogether.

Personally I never leave when there is an issue if I cannot get satisfaction at the clinic level I will write, call and complain in person to anyone who will listen. My friend told me that you should just "kill people with kindness"; but some people will just think you are a pushover and continue to be inconsiderate and abusive. I  obviously cannot tell you what is best for you; but I do not inconvenience myself because of medical staff. Conflict can get tiresome so you have to weigh if it is worth it to you. I also consider the staff's view of patients - if they get away with it with you they will attempt to abuse more people until someone stands up to them.

I am far from a normal patient. My tolerance for nonsense is zero and my ability to advocate for myself has been honed through defending myself against advocates for my clients (whom I serve very well). So please be mindful of your situation and be careful when you proceed.

Keep us posted
also I always wanted to start an advocacy service for patients - for little issues because I know that there are organizations for big legal issues. Just so you do not feel alone and ganged up on in these situations like JP did. Also so that staff knows you are not alone. Totally volunteer all would be welcome  patients, relatives, professionals etc. and develop a training course and guidelines and encourage those with experience to help develop the program. Just thinking out loud what do you guys think?

We should not have to be prepared to fight when receiving treatment - dialysis is difficult enough without extra cr*p
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 10, 2008, 04:15:18 AM
Hey JP,

I am sorry it did not go well. I do have to say I have dealt with this many times throughout my time as a patient. When medical staff - be it hospital, clinic etc. is responsive and caring these issues do not come up. However when medical staff is irresponsible, thoughtless, lazy, stupid, unprofessional or abusive these issues come up regularly. I see it like this - you do your best to come to an agreement and you make sure you voice your opinion on the situation clearly and concisely (if you need help take someone with you to the meeting). If you do not get an acceptable response you protest maturely and with emotionless precision - otherwise they will label you a "unstable emotional patient" and ignore you altogether.

Personally I never leave when there is an issue if I cannot get satisfaction at the clinic level I will write, call and complain in person to anyone who will listen. My friend told me that you should just "kill people with kindness"; but some people will just think you are a pushover and continue to be inconsiderate and abusive. I  obviously cannot tell you what is best for you; but I do not inconvenience myself because of medical staff. Conflict can get tiresome so you have to weigh if it is worth it to you. I also consider the staff's view of patients - if they get away with it with you they will attempt to abuse more people until someone stands up to them.

I am far from a normal patient. My tolerance for nonsense is zero and my ability to advocate for myself has been honed through defending myself against advocates for my clients (whom I serve very well). So please be mindful of your situation and be careful when you proceed.

Keep us posted
also I always wanted to start an advocacy service for patients - for little issues because I know that there are organizations for big legal issues. Just so you do not feel alone and ganged up on in these situations like JP did. Also so that staff knows you are not alone. Totally volunteer all would be welcome  patients, relatives, professionals etc. and develop a training course and guidelines and encourage those with experience to help develop the program. Just thinking out loud what do you guys think?

We should not have to be prepared to fight when receiving treatment - dialysis is difficult enough without extra cr*p

CW, I like your idea about the patient advocacy service, I am sure there are many people out there, who are just plain scared to stand up for whats right. I appreciate your reply, and understand I should not get emotional, but cornered and on dialysis, it puts me in a fight or flight state of mind, and yes, I am afraid this is, and will be used against me, my buttons exposed  :(
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: CW on February 10, 2008, 08:53:28 AM
I am truly sorry you have to go through this JP.  >:(

I do understand that this is a stressfull time and I want you to have feelings about the situation, but if you show them those feelings they will use it against you. Maybe iHD should start to practice engaging in letter writing campaigns for issues that concern us and in defense of our members. I would really not know where to start with that ? ??? ?. It is frustrating knowing you have to go there and face them after they treated you poorly >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(. 

The best to you, and please do what is best for you.

CW
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: kitkatz on February 10, 2008, 09:45:02 AM
I have found if you put your need and wants (complaints) into written form the center has to deal with it.  They cannot just round file a written complaint. It has to be dealt with, if it is not you can take it further up the food chain.  Good luck.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 10, 2008, 09:54:43 AM
I have found if you put your need and wants (complaints) into written form the center has to deal with it.  They cannot just round file a written complaint. It has to be dealt with, if it is not you can take it further up the food chain.  Good luck.
Thanks Kitkatz, I will try that as my next step.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: MyssAnne on February 10, 2008, 01:10:42 PM
Oh man JP. Let us know  how it goes tomorrow at clinic.  Kit has a very good point, they can't ignore a formal written letter, with photographic proof.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: KT0930 on February 10, 2008, 05:43:00 PM
JP, does your center offer home dialysis options? Would it be something you could (or would) consider? There may still be some issues with the staff, but not the day to day stuff you're dealing with now.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 10, 2008, 11:23:11 PM
JP, does your center offer home dialysis options? Would it be something you could (or would) consider? There may still be some issues with the staff, but not the day to day stuff you're dealing with now.
Just PD, and I was told that I cant do PD, because of surgeries and the mesh  in my stomach area. Last year, I tried to have them look into NxStage, but the director shot the idea down.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: 2_DallasCowboys on February 11, 2008, 04:06:30 AM
JP,

I have been away, and just read this thread.  I am so, so
sorry you had to go thru this!  I do hope your blood sugar
is better- and as far as what "Rhonda" put you thru with
your fistula, I cannot believe some of these workers can be
so callous!  I so wish that just once, they can be the patient
and have someone jabbing them so carelessly!
So glad you have that pic, and do hope everything is much
better

Anne
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Roadrunner on February 11, 2008, 07:53:53 AM
Hi,
I don't know where you live in western PA but here are some centers that have NxStage.  A long daily drive is a killer but in the long run it would be worth it. 

A bad center is why we changed from in-center to home dialysis. 

DaVita - Pittsburgh (PA)
4312 Penn Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15224

DaVita - Elizabeth Dialysis (PA)
(724) 998-1472
201 McKeesport Rd
Elizabeth, PA 15037

DaVita - Zanesville at Home (OH)
(740) 454-2911
3120 Newark Rd
Zanesville, OH 43701

DaVita - Strongsville (OH)
(440) 238-9270
17792 Pearl Road
Strongsville, OH 44136

DaVita - Erie Dialysis (PA)
(814) 454-0480
350 E Bayfron Pkwy, Suite A
Erie, PA 16507

Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: okarol on February 11, 2008, 08:17:50 AM
 :cuddle; Hope you find a solution you that will improve things JP.  :cuddle;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: KT0930 on February 11, 2008, 09:23:16 AM
JP, does your center offer home dialysis options? Would it be something you could (or would) consider? There may still be some issues with the staff, but not the day to day stuff you're dealing with now.
Just PD, and I was told that I cant do PD, because of surgeries and the mesh  in my stomach area. Last year, I tried to have them look into NxStage, but the director shot the idea down.

What is the "mesh"? Scar tissue or something you had implanted for some reason? I did PD very successfully and had two previous transplants, a c-section, tubes tied, and a previous PD cath insertion and removal (in the early 80's before laproscopy). Don't give up just because of some surgeries. If it's something you might be interested in, have your neph look into it. It's certainly better than dealing with Rhonda!
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 11, 2008, 09:45:43 AM
KT, For some reason, I was prone to ruptures, 2 of which were umbilical. They put the mesh in to "hold" my insides, in. Way before I started dialysis, I had my Neph check into PD with the way my belly is with the mesh, no good.
Roadrunner, the Davita in Pittsburgh is where I went for orientation on NxStage when I first started dialysis, and found out they did not accept my insurance. Again, changing insurance would mean dropping off the transplant list, as the hospital where I am listed doesn't accept the insurance I need to go to Davita, and their doctor. Thanks for the address's though.
Todays treatment went really well, they had a nurse from another unit come in, NO RHONDA!! I think calling the nurse practitioner, and talking things over with her may have straightened things out - so far so good! Again, thanks for all the replies and suggestions, it means lots to me  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Psim on February 11, 2008, 10:48:00 AM
I'm so glad things were better today. Good for you for keeping on looking for a better resolution. Hope your persistence continues to pay off.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: CW on February 11, 2008, 10:40:00 PM
Great Job JP I hope it keeps going well!  :thumbup;
CW
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: rose1999 on February 11, 2008, 11:20:18 PM
We moan about the NHS in the UK but hearing all the problems you have with insurance JP, well it makes me grateful for what we've got. I'm so glad things went well for you and I hope they continure that way. WELL DONE for having the courage to speak out, sadly a lot of patients don't through fear of retaliation, you are a brave man.  :clap;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 12, 2008, 02:40:54 PM
Again, thanks for the replies  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: KT0930 on February 12, 2008, 05:48:24 PM
Glad things were better, JP. Continue to take care of yourself, and by extension, all those in your clinic!  :2thumbsup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: MyssAnne on February 14, 2008, 02:01:03 PM
JP, I had been gone a few days, I am glad there was no Rhonda, I hope she's not gonna BE there
to do the needling.  Hang in there, I've been thinking of you!
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: kitkatz on February 15, 2008, 10:00:07 PM
Do you need to borrow my big stick?
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Joe Paul on February 16, 2008, 03:10:53 AM
Thanks MyssAnne, for keeping me in your thoughts  :thumbup;  Kitkatz, if things go sour again, not only would I want your stick, id want you to be on the swinging end of it, nobody knows that stick like you do!!  :thumbup;
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: Ohio Buckeye on March 07, 2008, 11:57:01 AM
I'm glad things went better for you JP and hope it continues to stay that way.
Title: Re: New nurse and being rough with needles
Post by: lovearenalcaretech on July 22, 2008, 01:09:56 AM
:thumbdown; My arm is really aching this morning. What makes me upset is when I asked to do buttonholes a year ago, the fistula was nice and undamaged. Now that its beat up, they want to talk to me about buttonholes! I am trying to get a picture to show what I am talking about - Also, for "evidence" tomorrow when I see the head nurse, as I heal quickly. Got it, here is what it looks like this morning


My goodness I'm so sorry you had to go through that!  It looked like your arm was slightly infiltrated and caused trauma to your access.  I hope your BS gets lower soon and I hope you won't have to go through any agonizing cannulations again.