I Hate Dialysis Message Board

Off-Topic => Off-Topic: Talk about anything you want. => Topic started by: Sluff on January 28, 2008, 09:47:27 AM

Title: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 28, 2008, 09:47:27 AM
Can anyone honestly elect this man President of the United States of America ?
 
 
I had heard about this but a picture is definitely worth 1000 words!  I know where my vote is not going.





Respect
Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton and Ruth Harkin stand during the national anthem.
Barack Hussein Obama's photo (that's his real name)......the article said he REFUSED TO NOT ONLY PUT HIS HAND ON HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, BUT REFUSED TO SAY THE PLEDGE.....how in the world can a man like this expect to be our next Commander-in-Chief????
 
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 28, 2008, 10:10:34 AM
There is more going on than what the picture is showing.

After all none of them are facing the flag which is required when you say the pledge.  Obama, Hillary and ?  are facing one way and Richardson is facing another of which none are facing the huge flag behind them.

Are the 3 watching a flag being presented for the pledge to soon to take place?
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: boxman55 on January 28, 2008, 10:15:06 AM
They all look rather put out that they have to stand there for that. my opinion...Box
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: okarol on January 28, 2008, 10:48:04 AM
Here's more info about the subject http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp from Snopes - Urban Legends Reference Pages.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: glitter on January 28, 2008, 10:53:25 AM
I am not particulaly an Obama fan, but there clearly are other pictures that show him with his hand on his heart.....
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 28, 2008, 12:01:19 PM

There will be stories about each candidate that are not based on facts.  That is part of politics and our privilege of voting.  We have a very split politcal family, so debates are frequent.  Each of us is always searching for facts and there are many non-facts circulating about Obama.  Next it will be Romney and his Morman faith or Huckebee and the Baptists. You just got to love our political system.  But we are Americans and we come from every continent in the world :grouphug;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 28, 2008, 03:40:40 PM
Either way I'm not an Obama fan either. 
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: kellyt on January 28, 2008, 03:48:30 PM
Just who is that other guy.....George Lopez?      :rofl;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Joe Paul on January 28, 2008, 03:49:36 PM
Watching the  video in Karols link, maybe he didn't know that was the Star Spangled Banner being sung?   :sarcasm;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 28, 2008, 04:41:40 PM
He is a governor that dropped out of the race earlier--weeks ago.  Can't think of his name.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 28, 2008, 04:59:46 PM
Just who is that other guy.....George Lopez?      :rofl;
He is a govener that dropped outof the race earlier--weeks ago. Can't think of his name.

Bill Richardson -- governor of New Mexico.  Never had a chance -- not sure why he bothered.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: okarol on January 28, 2008, 09:53:33 PM
Watching the  video in Karols link, maybe he didn't know that was the Star Spangled Banner being sung?   :sarcasm;

Yes it was quite a creative rendition!
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: glitter on January 29, 2008, 06:08:39 AM
you want to see his church?

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm


now he is not supposed to be a racisist- he is in fact 1/2 white-yet he belongs to a church that is 'unashamedly black" calling themselves a black church over and over-


now if a white church did that- it would be racsist.....go check out this link and read the about- then go look at the bookstore- some of the books are straight from the 70's- radical socialism at its best.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 29, 2008, 07:06:16 AM
When you go to the church's website, click onto "ministries" and see the programs they offer to the congregation-----such as, teaching young men to be Christian leaders, Men and Women prayer groups-----every single group listed talks about Christianity and going out to help their community and world.   I don't care if they take pride in their heritage; I take pride in mine.  If you come to my church, you will only find one African-American family there.  We tend to congregate with those of the same background and interests.     

This is an interesting year for politics.  I just keep reading--hopefully by November I will know who to vote for!! :rofl;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 29, 2008, 08:16:24 AM
When you go to the church's website, click onto "ministries" and see the programs they offer to the congregation-----such as, teaching young men to be Christian leaders, Men and Women prayer groups-----every single group listed talks about Christianity and going out to help their community and world.   I don't care if they take pride in their heritage; I take pride in mine.  If you come to my church, you will only find one African-American family there.  We tend to congregate with those of the same background and interests.     

Right on, Paris!
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Zach on January 29, 2008, 09:57:40 AM

There will be stories about each candidate that are not based on facts.


And as we know, prejudice and bigotry are part of human nature.
 8)

Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: glitter on January 29, 2008, 10:55:58 AM
I am not a racisit- but this man wants to be president- and instead of belonging to a  church that embraces everyone- his church embraces a race....thats just wrong... :twocents;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: angela515 on January 29, 2008, 12:15:26 PM
GO OBAMA!!! YOU ROCK!!!! OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT!!!!! Thank you.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 29, 2008, 01:28:23 PM
Angela, can you tell us how you really feel? :rofl; :rofl; :rofl;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: okarol on January 29, 2008, 01:33:38 PM
I would hazard a guess that Obama will not be reading this thread Angela.  :rofl;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: kimcanada on January 29, 2008, 02:04:24 PM
Did I miss the point, is it because he doesn't have his hand on his heart that you wouldn't vote for him?
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 29, 2008, 02:08:26 PM
Did I miss the point, is it because he doesn't have his hand on his heart that you wouldn't vote for him?

That would be only one of many things.

No having his hand over his heart shows disrespect to all those that have died for this country.  From the Revolution War until today.  Even more is his view to give amnesty to 20+ million illegals.

Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Mimi on January 29, 2008, 02:26:55 PM
GO OBAMA!!! YOU ROCK!!!! OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT!!!!! Thank you.

 :thumbdown; :thumbdown; :thumbdown; :thumbdown; :thumbdown;

The thing that gets me with blacks, it is all right for them to have all black schools, all black beauty pagents,
all black this, that, and the other.  But whites are not allowed to do this.  I f we do, we are racists.  I believe
blacks are more racists than whites.

Mimi
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: glitter on January 29, 2008, 02:39:00 PM
So- if you support him- can you say why? what is the attraction? what policy do you agree with?
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: boxman55 on January 29, 2008, 04:29:01 PM
Glitter, I don't support him so I couldn't tell you what he is for and for that matter I couldn't tell you what Clinton is for either. Have they talked about what they are for? Am I just missing it?...Boxman
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 29, 2008, 05:04:40 PM
Mimi, that was a pretty open statement about African-Americans.  Didn't sound like your usual self.  You don't know who is what race on this forum or religious group.  Maybe your statement is about my race, my children, my life.      This is certainly going to be a long election year. 
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: st789 on January 29, 2008, 05:30:57 PM
All candidates speak greatly of their plans but can they actually make it happen????
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 29, 2008, 05:43:50 PM
Just for the record, my reason for not voting at this point for Obama has nothing to do with race. Same as my reason for not voting for Clinton has nothing to do with gender. There is still a lot of learning to do on all candidates. Anyone I would vote for to be my Commander in chief absolutely needs to believe the way I do. We all have our own reasons for why we vote the way we do.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 29, 2008, 05:54:20 PM
You're right Sluff. I will keep reading, vote and then I always support (may not agree) our President, who ever it may be. 
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 29, 2008, 06:01:00 PM
Mimi, that was a pretty open statement about African-Americans.  Didn't sound like your usual self.  You don't know who is what race on this forum or religious group.  Maybe your statement is about my race, my children, my life. 
Once again, well said, Paris.  Sometimes the things people say just make my heart hurt.  But I keep reminding myself that all kinds of good people have all kinds of opinions about things, and that's okay.  Just gotta keep on lovin' (or at least trying :)).
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: glitter on January 29, 2008, 06:06:54 PM
Mimi, that was a pretty open statement about African-Americans.  Didn't sound like your usual self.  You don't know who is what race on this forum or religious group.  Maybe your statement is about my race, my children, my life.      This is certainly going to be a long election year. 

people should be able to discuss this without it being racsist...her statement had a lot of truth in it....its one thing to be proud of your heritage and race- she was not smiting the African-American race, she was pointing out if whites had an all white school or 'whatever' they get sued for discrimination- but if Blacks exclude whites its 'okay.'

Everyone wants to be this and that- why can't we all be Americans....just Americans- not black, or mexican or whatever race you are- I am an American who happens to be Russian, my neighbor is an American- who happens to be German- he does not call himself a German-American, I am not a Russian-American. We are just Americans.  Why can't Blacks from Africa- who are Americans- be Americans from Africa? and so on .....and why is this wrong?

 Obama at first- I did not think of him as a Black American- just an American who happens to be black.  I will not vote for him-  I wouldn't care if he was purple- if his ideology was the same as mine he would get my vote. Unfortunatly the field of candidates pretty much sucks this time.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 29, 2008, 06:25:34 PM
[she was not smiting the African-American race, she was pointing out if whites had an all white school or 'whatever' they get sued for discrimination- but if Blacks exclude whites its 'okay.'
The difference lies in the fact that, historically, in this country, whites have been the oppressing race, i.e., black slavery (not white slavery) was legal up until 1863, and many other kinds of discrimination were not only legal but also legally enforced only 50 years ago. Even though we like to think that's all in the past now, it's still a huge historical fact that impacts us today. 

Historically, African American churches were a place of refuge for black American slaves to support one another and regain some dignity in the midst of life circumstances that were terribly degrading and inhumane.  They continue to serve a similar purpose today for black Americans living in a society that wants to think it is race-neutral -- and is trying to be -- but isn't, yet. 
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Bajanne on January 29, 2008, 06:47:25 PM
[she was not smiting the African-American race, she was pointing out if whites had an all white school or 'whatever' they get sued for discrimination- but if Blacks exclude whites its 'okay.'
The difference lies in the fact that, historically, in this country, whites have been the oppressing race, i.e., black slavery (not white slavery) was legal up until 1863, and many other kinds of discrimination were not only legal but also legally enforced only 50 years ago. Even though we like to think that's all in the past now, it's still a huge historical fact that impacts us today. 

Historically, African American churches were a place of refuge for black American slaves to support one another and regain some dignity in the midst of life circumstances that were terribly degrading and inhumane.  They continue to serve a similar purpose today for black Americans living in a society that wants to think it is race-neutral -- and is trying to be -- but isn't, yet. 
These are by far the most balanced and informed and commonsense statements I have heard for a long time, from both Paris and xtrememoosetrax. 
I hesitate to put in my two cents since I knew I would be unable to be unbiased, as an African Caribbean person, and a moderator of this site.  So I am just thankful that some people said what I was thinking and what I know to be true.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Mimi on January 29, 2008, 08:25:54 PM
Mimi, that was a pretty open statement about African-Americans.  Didn't sound like your usual self.  You don't know who is what race on this forum or religious group.  Maybe your statement is about my race, my children, my life.      This is certainly going to be a long election year. 

Paris, sweetie, you lost what I was trying to say.  What I meant was why can't we all just be Americans (Thanks Glitter)
We have come to the point in our history of civil rights that all men, red, yellow, black or white should be able to
participate in whatever is going on.  It should not be this is a black beauty pageant or this is a white church, it
should just be this is a beauty pageant or this is a church.  Come one, come all.  If I offended anyone, it was not my
intention.  In my study of history, my heart has bled at the treatment of slaves.  I do believe that everyone has a right to civil liberties and I am NOT trying to fight the Civil War again even tho I am from Georgia.  As for Obama I think he is a very smart and levelheaded young man  However I do not feel he has quite enough experience at this point in time
to be President of our United States.  In a few years I am sure I will feel different.  And he sure can make some good speeches.  Whoever is elected I hope and pray can get our country straighteded out.  As Obama says - Yes We Can -
if we all pull together.

Love to All,
Mimi
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 29, 2008, 10:32:29 PM
The fact that I won't vote for Obama has nothing to do with race, just as the reason I won't vote for Clinton has nothing to do with gender.

The more we learn about the people who are running for the presidency could change my mind at a later date.  For now that's how I feel.

There is a lot of slander from all parties and we need to dig into the facts instead of the hype.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 30, 2008, 07:06:57 AM
Thanks Mimi---I guess I read it wrong.  I believe so much in a global community and live my life accordingly.  I celebrated Hanukkah with my family's closest friends each year (they came to church with us on Christmas Eve), we have inter-racial marriages in our family, I have had many Muslim students in my classes, and my best friend is the most stereotype Southern Baptists ever.   What it all has taught me is how much we are the same.     The thought I always go back to is that our country has survived every single administration so far and we will continue as a nation no matter who wins the election.  I am glad we live in a country where we can have different opinions and choices.   :usaflag;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 30, 2008, 07:36:17 AM
[she was not smiting the African-American race, she was pointing out if whites had an all white school or 'whatever' they get sued for discrimination- but if Blacks exclude whites its 'okay.'
The difference lies in the fact that, historically, in this country, whites have been the oppressing race, i.e., black slavery (not white slavery) was legal up until 1863, and many other kinds of discrimination were not only legal but also legally enforced only 50 years ago. Even though we like to think that's all in the past now, it's still a huge historical fact that impacts us today. 

Historically, African American churches were a place of refuge for black American slaves to support one another and regain some dignity in the midst of life circumstances that were terribly degrading and inhumane.  They continue to serve a similar purpose today for black Americans living in a society that wants to think it is race-neutral -- and is trying to be -- but isn't, yet. 



If all white schools or whatever are discriminatory and racist, then all black schools or whatever are discriminatory and racist also.

One does not get to claim exception to that and try to use history to justify it.




Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 30, 2008, 09:03:22 AM
We have come to the point in our history of civil rights that all men, red, yellow, black or white should be able to
participate in whatever is going on. 
Yes, and the operative word here is "should."  This is the way we would like it to be, the way things "should" be, but we're not there yet; it's an ongoing process that is -- like it not, BigSky -- rooted in history. 

Faced with all those many, many years of being barred -- either de jure or de facto -- from "regular" white American churches, schools, social clubs, beauty pageants, etc., black Americans could either: a) not do any of these things, or b) set up shop separately.  Generally, the option chosen was "b," and white America was quite satisfied with this situation for a long time.  Over the decades, these churches, schools, clubs, etc., became living institutions in their own right, with their own history, traditions, culture, etc.  And now they're supposed to just shut their doors? 

Mimi, I don't know where you live, but I would venture to guess that there is more than one of your "brand" of church, whether it be Baptist, Presbyterian, or whatever, in your town.  So why doesn't your church just close up shop and join in with the rest of your co-religionists -- why can't you all go to the same church?  I can think of several reasons why a person might not want to do this:  I like the church I'm going to, I know and like the people here, I don't know anybody over there, the other church is in a part of town that is far away and difficult to get to.  Sounds reasonable to me.  So why is it that black Americans are now supposed to shut down the spiritual and social communities they have created -- in response to terrible injustice, I might add -- to go to churches in neighborhoods where they may not have even been allowed to live until recently?  Or, conversely, all the white churches could shut down so everybody could go to the traditionally black churches.  Can you really imagine a lot of white folks driving over to the "bad" part of town where blacks were traditionally forced to live, to go to church?  I can't. 

Unfortunately, it's a crazy situation that we, all Americans, are in, and there's nothing much about it that makes a whole lot of sense.  All we can do is try to fix it, little by little, and try to be compassionate to one another in the process.  By being compassionate, I mean trying to imagine ourselves in someone else's shoes and remembering how we got to where we are now.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 30, 2008, 09:58:54 AM
Good words, xtrmemoosetrax.  I would vote for you for President!    :usaflag;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 30, 2008, 10:09:11 AM
xtrememoosetrax, you are very right, and I think some people would vote for Obama strictly to drive home the point that, there are a lot less white americans that are as predjudice as they once were. Maybe I'm wrong but thats the way I see it.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 30, 2008, 10:23:18 AM
Did I miss the point, is it because he doesn't have his hand on his heart that you wouldn't vote for him?

That is my point among other reasons. I want someone who believes in what is right.

First we were expected to accept the removal of prayer in our schools, then the right to discipline our children was taken away and now we have skyrocketed adolescent crime, without rambling on I think you get the picture, and now we have someone who is suppose to be asking for the Americans vote to hold the highest office in our Country, and he can not follow a tradition of respect, or are we supposed to accept that if the President doesn't hold his hand to his heart as a sign of respect to our country, then I guess we can't hold our children accountable when they decide they don't want to do it either. Oh that's right it is a free country, FREE does not mean that it's a free for all. What kind of Country will we become, when everyone just does things the way they want and not respecting Honor and Tradition. Just my  :twocents;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 30, 2008, 11:13:34 AM
What kind of Country will we become, when everyone just does things the way they want and not respecting Honor and Tradition.
Good question.  Here's another one:  What kind of country HAVE we become when our government is imprisoning people indefinitely with no charges against them, without right to legal representation, and torturing them on top of that?  Talk about not respecting honor and tradition; all of these practices fly in the face of what our country's founders were trying to achieve, in addition to giving the lie to our country's pretense of being some kind of moral leader of the free world.  Now that's something to be upset about.  :twocents;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 30, 2008, 11:24:15 AM
Or here's another way of looking at it.  If we always respected tradition, slavery would still be legal, and only white men who owned property would be able to vote!  So that whole tradition argument is a double-edged sword.  The fact is that some traditions are not worthy of our honor or respect.  Again, my  :twocents;.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Joe Paul on January 30, 2008, 12:17:21 PM
Or here's another way of looking at it.  If we always respected tradition, slavery would still be legal, and only white men who owned property would be able to vote!  So that whole tradition argument is a double-edged sword.  The fact is that some traditions are not worthy of our honor or respect.  Again, my  :twocents;.
Very wrong, have you forgotten the Civil war?
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: glitter on January 30, 2008, 02:48:03 PM
What kind of Country will we become, when everyone just does things the way they want and not respecting Honor and Tradition.
Good question.  Here's another one:  What kind of country HAVE we become when our government is imprisoning people indefinitely with no charges against them, without right to legal representation, and torturing them on top of that?  Talk about not respecting honor and tradition; all of these practices fly in the face of what our country's founders were trying to achieve, in addition to giving the lie to our country's pretense of being some kind of moral leader of the free world.  Now that's something to be upset about.  :twocents;



now, how can you take a debate about one thing- and interject an entirely different subject?  Wether torture is effective, and legal is an entirely different debate.
Plus that is your opinion- I do not agree with you.

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=3086.0
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Sluff on January 30, 2008, 03:09:26 PM
This subject has become a snickers bar. No matter how you slice it, it comes up peanuts.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 30, 2008, 03:13:10 PM
Quote
now, how can you take a debate about one thing- and interject an entirely different subject? Wether torture is effective, and legal is an entirely different debate.
Plus that is your opinion- I do not agree with you.

http://ihatedialysis.com/forum/index.php?topic=3086.0
Yes, I had second thoughts about the wisdom of my last post(s), as I know that the torture issue has been discussed in another thread. Got a little carried away there. My better judgment, which almost ALWAYS wins, lost this round. Anyway, sorry -- didn't mean to take this thread off topic.

This subject has become a snickers bar. No matter how you slice it, it comes up peanuts.
:lol; Ain't that the truth? :rofl;
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 30, 2008, 04:08:08 PM

Yes, and the operative word here is "should."  This is the way we would like it to be, the way things "should" be, but we're not there yet; it's an ongoing process that is -- like it not, BigSky -- rooted in history. 

Faced with all those many, many years of being barred -- either de jure or de facto -- from "regular" white American churches, schools, social clubs, beauty pageants, etc., black Americans could either: a) not do any of these things, or b) set up shop separately.  Generally, the option chosen was "b," and white America was quite satisfied with this situation for a long time.  Over the decades, these churches, schools, clubs, etc., became living institutions in their own right, with their own history, traditions, culture, etc.  And now they're supposed to just shut their doors? 


Either open up to all or YES shut their doors.

Racist and discriminatory applies EQUALLY to all no matter the history.




Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Bill Peckham on January 30, 2008, 06:34:12 PM

Yes, and the operative word here is "should."  This is the way we would like it to be, the way things "should" be, but we're not there yet; it's an ongoing process that is -- like it not, BigSky -- rooted in history. 

Faced with all those many, many years of being barred -- either de jure or de facto -- from "regular" white American churches, schools, social clubs, beauty pageants, etc., black Americans could either: a) not do any of these things, or b) set up shop separately.  Generally, the option chosen was "b," and white America was quite satisfied with this situation for a long time.  Over the decades, these churches, schools, clubs, etc., became living institutions in their own right, with their own history, traditions, culture, etc.  And now they're supposed to just shut their doors? 


Either open up to all or YES shut their doors.

Racist and discriminatory applies EQUALLY to all no matter the history.



What institutions are you thinking of Bigsky? You could go to Howard University if you wanted to (and have the grades) - I'd even chip in for your tuition. People of any sort are welcome at the so called black churches that I know of its just that most other sorts choose not to go.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Mimi on January 30, 2008, 07:14:26 PM
Mimi, I don't know where you live, but I would venture to guess that there is more than one of your "brand" of church, whether it be Baptist, Presbyterian, or whatever, in your town.  So why doesn't your church just close up shop and join in with the rest of your co-religionists -- why can't you all go to the same church?  I can think of several reasons why a person might not want to do this:  I like the church I'm going to, I know and like the people here, I don't know anybody over there, the other church is in a part of town that is far away and difficult to get to.  Sounds reasonable to me.  So why is it that black Americans are now supposed to shut down the spiritual and social communities they have created -- in response to terrible injustice, I might add -- to go to churches in neighborhoods where they may not have even been allowed to live until recently?  Or, conversely, all the white churches could shut down so everybody could go to the traditionally black churches.  Can you really imagine a lot of white folks driving over to the "bad" part of town where blacks were traditionally forced to live, to go to church?  I can't.   

No where in my post did I mention anything should be closed down, my dear.  What I implied was that everything
should be opened up.  To every color and race.  Along with open arms and open hearts.  Racism has been going on all throughout history.  Remember Hitler and the Jews?  He didn't bother to make them slaves, he just killed them.
At least in America we are working on it.  It may be a slow go, but some day it will happen.  I don't believe any race should have to give up their heritage, but I also don't believe that heritage should be used in hate and punishment
to the decendents coming down from all races.  And look folks, sarcasim doesn't fit into a discussion such as this one.

Love You All,
Mimi
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 30, 2008, 07:53:19 PM
What institutions are you thinking of Bigsky? You could go to Howard University if you wanted to (and have the grades) - I'd even chip in for your tuition. People of any sort are welcome at the so called black churches that I know of its just that most other sorts choose not to go.

Try reading all the posts next time.

Well the link to one is on the first page of posts I believe.

Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 30, 2008, 07:59:22 PM



At least in America we are working on it.  It may be a slow go, but some day it will happen.  I don't believe any race should have to give up their heritage, but I also don't believe that heritage should be used in hate and punishment
to the decendents coming down from all races.  And look folks, sarcasim doesn't fit into a discussion such as this one.

Love You All,
Mimi


One key point to all that is America as a whole didnt own slaves nor were racists.  Even today the majority of people are not racist.  Yet it is treated as such and it seems if anything happens the race card is thrown out despite race having nothing to do with it.

Such as Cynthia McKinney's little claim to fame for trying to blow past security and then assaulting the guard and then claiming it was because she was discriminated against because of her race.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Mimi on January 30, 2008, 08:25:48 PM
Yes Ms McKinney is from my state.  And she wasn't relected and her own race did that!

Mimi
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Bill Peckham on January 30, 2008, 08:46:09 PM
What institutions are you thinking of Bigsky? You could go to Howard University if you wanted to (and have the grades) - I'd even chip in for your tuition. People of any sort are welcome at the so called black churches that I know of its just that most other sorts choose not to go.

Try reading all the posts next time.

Well the link to one is on the first page of posts I believe.



If you had tried reading and comprehending you'd know his church doesn't exclude anyone, you could join if you wanted to.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 31, 2008, 03:41:11 AM

If you had tried reading and comprehending you'd know his church doesn't exclude anyone, you could join if you wanted to.

Hmm comprehending?  I wasnt the one who asked a dumb ass question like you did, so my comprehension is fine. 

They SPECIFICALLY go out of their way to say they are a "black" church.   That in itself is racism for the very reason if a church was to call itself a "white" church they would be hounded as being racists.



Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Bill Peckham on January 31, 2008, 08:28:07 AM

If you had tried reading and comprehending you'd know his church doesn't exclude anyone, you could join if you wanted to.

Hmm comprehending?  I wasnt the one who asked a dumb ass question like you did, so my comprehension is fine. 

They SPECIFICALLY go out of their way to say they are a "black" church.   That in itself is racism for the very reason if a church was to call itself a "white" church they would be hounded as being racists.


You wrote: "Either open up to all or YES shut their doors."
Well their doors are open to you. Now you are saying that you don't like how they use language when they selfdescribe their church as a black church - that's a different matter.
I think your panties are in a bunch because you like having your panties in a bunch.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: BigSky on January 31, 2008, 10:32:00 AM

You wrote: "Either open up to all or YES shut their doors."
Well their doors are open to you. Now you are saying that you don't like how they use language when they selfdescribe their church as a black church - that's a different matter.
I think your panties are in a bunch because you like having your panties in a bunch.

Letting others in as a "show" hardly gives any merit.   The very fact they claim to be a 'black" church speaks volumes.   

Seems you have a fetish for cross dressing bill. 
Clearly obvious by your attempt to project your panty fetish onto others to make you feel normal.
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 31, 2008, 12:49:40 PM
And look folks, sarcasim doesn't fit into a discussion such as this one.
Mimi,
I'm sorry if my post came across as sarcastic in tone; it was truly not intended.  I will admit, though, that I was feeling a little overheated, and I guess that's what came through.  I'll try to explain. 

Reading a statement like, "The thing that gets me with blacks, it is all right for them to have all black schools, all black beauty pagents, all black this, that, and the other.  But whites are not allowed to do this.  If we do, we are racists.  I believe blacks are more racists than whites," pushes my buttons big-time.  First of all, I think it is based on what Paris so politely called "non-facts" and a misunderstanding of history, sociology, economics, psychology, etc., but we could argue those points forever. 

The bigger problem I have with the statement you made is that when you paint with such a broad brush, it sounds like you're criticizing MY family members, MY dear friends (one of whom is the one I'm trying to give a kidney to), and other good people like our beloved IHD friend, Bajanne, and that just sets me right off, because it is not true of any of them.  Today, my rational mind tells me that of course you weren't talking about these people personally, but it was hard not to take it that way yesterday. 

Of course, you're free to think and say whatever you want, but when you make a blanket statement about a group that you are not part of, be it blacks, gays (oh dear God, let's not go there!), Filipinos, senior citizens or whomever, you're running the risk of unintentionally hurting a lot of people, most of whom will probably never say a word about it for fear of causing a confrontation; they'll just carry the hurt with them.  Without wanting to put words in anyone else's mouth, I suspect that this may be the point that both Paris and I were trying to make initially.  At any rate, that is MY point.

OK, I think I'm done with this now [the rest of IHD breathes a HUGE sigh of relief].  I'm glad that we at least agree on the overall goals of tolerance and harmony.

Peace,
xm
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Mimi on January 31, 2008, 01:06:37 PM
Boys, Boys, Boys!!!  Remember we all put our pants on one leg at a time.

Mimi

Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: Mimi on January 31, 2008, 02:19:56 PM
Reading a statement like, "The thing that gets me with blacks, it is all right for them to have all black schools, all black beauty pagents, all black this, that, and the other.  But whites are not allowed to do this.  If we do, we are racists.  I believe blacks are more racists than whites," pushes my buttons big-time.  First of all, I think it is based on what Paris so politely called "non-facts" and a misunderstanding of history, sociology, economics, psychology, etc., but we could argue those points forever.  

xm, to get one point straight, the sarcasm remark was NOT for you.  It was for some other members of the board.
The second point is I do not have a misunderstanding of history of the black race.  You and Paris imply that I have no
relationships with black people.  And that simply is not true.  When I was 9 months old my mother hired a black lady (and I say lady with the uttmost respect) to care for me so she could go back to work. She stayed with me until after I married.  If you don't think I loved and respected her, you are wrong. She took very good care of me and taught
me much.  Through the years I have had many black friends and one of the reasons I have is because this black
lady taught me alot about her culture.  It is so funny but if I had made this statement to any of my black friends they
would have immediately understood.  I am sorry I didn't make my point clearer.  Dumb me I thought everyone would
understand where I was coming from.  Having said that, one thing that pushes my buttons is when people jump on
the bandwagon and start preaching that I don't know my history, that I am not tolerant, hat I am hurting their family and friends.  I don't know you, and you don't know me and that is one thing that is very obvious in all of these posts.
Sometimes we all need to be held accountable, we all have blind spots, but first and formost we need to know the truth.

Love, Mimi
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: xtrememoosetrax on January 31, 2008, 02:56:37 PM
You know, Mimi, I have to admit that you have a point.  I DID make an implication that turns out not to be true, and I made some assumptions (albeit without quite realizing it at the time -- not a good excuse) that were not based on fact.  I hate it when other people make assumptions, and then. . . .   Suffice it to say that I feel chastened, and I would like to offer an apology.  And I guess I should say thank you, too, for the reminder about making assumptions; obviously, I needed it.

I guess this all goes to show that the old saying about what "ASSUME" means is as true as it ever was.  And that communicating clearly, especially about complicated subjects, is hard. 

Again, peace,
xm
Title: Re: Obama??
Post by: paris on January 31, 2008, 03:05:22 PM
We certainly are heated on this thread and nothing will really change each others opinions.  Personally, I think we need to watch derogatory statements and condescending comments.
We all walk different paths on the same journey of life.  We don't know each others lifes; just what we share online.  There is so much more to all of us than renal disease.  Words can always be taken wrong when you aren't sitting face to face.  My original reply to Mimi's post was to say that the statement didn't sound like the Mimi she has let us know.  She always posts such loving thoughts, so I just needed a little clarification.  I called no one a racist.  I just know how I live my life. And to me, that is all that matters.  This all started because our country is at a milestone in history and a black man and a woman are running for president.  This will be written about in history books.  I have lived in many states, watched so much growth in our country and I am excited to see history being made.  Does it mean I support either one?  My husband doesn't even know that answer!  But, I do appreciate where we are in time (but I hate discussing politics, religion, and racism---no win situations).   Just my :twocents;